hookst

First, let me put this in proper context about me. I am 51, and never been one to drink. When I was young I tried to develop a taste for alcohol and hated it. I also feared I was addictive because I lost a weeks pay playing poker once. So, I've got not basis to relate to the challenges of trying to recover from alcohol addiction.

A month ago, I met a warm, beautiful lady. She immediately admitted her alcohol problem, and I did not let that keep me from getting to know her. She is not a mean or vindictive person when drunk- indeed, having seen her sober for a few days now, her personality is not really different (at least, on the surface.)

Her father was alcoholic, and her mother is angry and bitter toward her. She was divorced 2 years ago (I suspect alcohol played a role) and has 2 kids, 17 and 20.

I have grown to care about this friend a lot. She has been through rehab twice- involuntarily- and toured the AA programs. She had lost one job for drinking, and lost another a bit over a week ago. She has chosen to try drying out voluntarily this time.

So far, in the few days she has been in, no one has visited but me. I brought her a fresh copy of the big book, telling her a fresh start should be complete, and yes, I am reading it myself.

I'd like to be a friend and support her. I would NOT like to enable or make it easy for her. I know I can't relate to the issues and cannot be a resource that way, but I have to believe she needs friends as well.

I have resolved to give her no money, and not allow her to slide in my presence. Being one who doesn't drink, I am good at sniffing out minute amounts of alcohol (I have been able to tell someone drank when everyone else thought the person was dry.)

I am completely confused, though, as to the very best way to be a friend to her. I do care about her and how she does. I just don't know what mistakes I need to try avoiding so that I am an asset to her recovery.

If anyone can give guidance, I would appreciate it.

I have never caught her in a lie. I have seen her mislead herself, but that is not the same thing.

I am not saying she needs "ME" to come to the rescue. Only she can rescue herself. She doesn't even need "ME" the individual as a friend. This isn't about need- it's about one friend helping another.

Please... help a confused guy learn how to navigate strange and unfamiliar waters.

Oh- I am 51, she is a few weeks from 50. in case it matters.

Dan

Hi hookst, and welcome.
I'm Dan, certified alcoholic

First off, bringing her a fresh book was such a great idea. Big ups to you.
As for support, well, you seem to know that much if not all of what she needs to do has to come from within her. If she has the desire to get well, then she's in a good place. I assume she's in a residential setting.

Listen to her attentively when you visit.
Remember why she's there. Gently remind her of that, if she's struggling.
Blessings on her, that she finds her way this time.

hookst

Hi, Dan. Bravo for your own efforts. I'm David, certified friend of an alcoholic.

Her GP once was on staff at this hospital, and he had her going to the behavioral care center. It isn't fancy and comfy like her last effort- which may be a good reason in itself to clean out. This time she is in by her own choice, and she is armed by the words of her daughter, telling her that she wanted my friend to be there to see her grandkids one day.

I make it a point to tell her I believe in her, and I believe she can do this. I am thinking the best asset I can be as someone who cannot relate, is to be someone who has confidence in her. In my experiences in life, we often borrow someone else's confidence until our own is in place.

I am hoping to learn the best approach to her. It's not about me or my ego (hey, like I said, she is NOT hard on the eyes, so every hug from her helps MY ego! ) it is about a wonderful person being returned to the world.

I have offered her extra incentive- since we both love beaches, I told her if she is sober for a year, I'll take her to Hawaii. I have a project of my own I need to work on as well (I am trying to lose 80 to 100 pounds) so this would be great incentive for us both.

ANY comments, suggestions, or knowledge to help me avoid enabling would be appreciated.

CarolD

Welcome to SR David! Howdy neighbor!

I was 48 when I started AA recovery.... 52 when I fianlly quit drinking.

AA was not enough for me. I needed to be comvinced that drinking would killl me.

I read a book that certainly opened my eyes....


'Under The Influence' by Dr. James Milam & K. Ketcham

can usually be found on Amazon. Ms. Ketcham has a newer book...'Beyound The Influence' I have not read.

You might want to check out our Friends & Family section.


Hugs to both of you....

fraankie

be supportive
the big book was a good idea
be positive
bring some candy
but
realize it is going to be a long road
she is going to depend on you
so you have to have a great program
sooner or later
lots of calls, listening
a trip to hawaii indicates a lot more than beaches
and material stuff isn't a good incentive to stay sober
she has to do it for herself
suggest to make meetings together
i'm all for support
do the best you can
oh, oh, just read you have no basis for recovery
it's going to be very tough
helping her recover if you don't know anything about it
it's even tougher 2 people trying to recover together
as in marriages, boyfriend/ girlfriend
but
do your best
give it a shot

FriendofBill

Hi and welcome,

This sentence alone tells me you qualify for al-anon.

"To watch is not to love".......Carl Jung

Come one over to the Friends and Family forum,,,,that is where us loves ones of alcoholics meet and greet.You;ll find support and answers.....

see you there!

Pick-a-name

One word.........RUN!!!!!

(Tell her to give you a call after she has some recovery under her belt.)

Don S

LOL at pick-a-name! So anyone with a drinking problem is to be shunned, is that it?

Sounds to me as though hookst has his eyes open, he's asking for advice, and he's pretty astute.

If she's interested in reading material, in addition to the books Carol D recommended, I'd suggest Sober For Good by Anne Fletcher. You'd both get some interesting information from it, and it mentions some of the alternatives to AA as well. If she wants more information on other recovery programs, here's a link I'm fond of:
http://rrci.net/recovery_spectrum.htm
And there are lots of folks here ready and willing to answer any questions she might have. There's a lot of support available online.
You're a nice guy to be asking and caring. Keep in touch,
Don S

hookst

No, I won't run. My character, my sense of decency, says to be there. I can no more than than a camel can fly. I will run only if her actions are against me as a friend.

Someone responded in a manner indicating they thought we were married or both alcoholic. No, she is a friend only (though I care very much for her) and I am not one who drinks, period. I skipped the addiction and went straight to recovery. I simply knew not to when I was young, that I would be in deep trouble.

I shall check the books mentioned when I complete the big book.

And I apologize for not finding the right forum here- it took me a little time to get the hang of the layout here.

And I DO have a schedule for local AlAnon. I will try to attend within the next few days. Since she is possibly being released tomorrow, I don't know that I can make the Tuesday night meeting, and am not sure when the next one is scheduled.

I was pleased with how she looked today. She is the same person, only clearer, and I was relieved to see that. She is a warm, affectionate person, and so far, she seems even more so. I know tough times are ahead, but I truly believe she can do it.

Don W

Being an alcoholic I wanted to speak on this subject. There is a very fine line of control involved between enabler and support. As an alcoholic I used the support of others to enable me to drink or get out of trouble so I could drink. I think you could consider joining a group like Alanon. You are a wonderful person to stand by your friend. Just do it with your mind also. And also set boundries, if crossed stepping back will help them more. We need to be forced into a position that makes us change. Once you set these boundries stand by them and enforce them. We are just like kids, we pick up on idel threats and wavering. I just want to add that your friend isn't being mean. She needs to drink and is driven by it. In actions and words. Don W

Chy

Hi and welcome!
I can't think of anything else you could do. Your doing it all already and that is truly admirable.

Music

Hi hookst and welcome to SR.
Doing what you're doing is commendable but I'm afraid you're taking a bigger bite than you can chew. I'd suggest you attend an open AA meeting and tell your story there. Reason being, AA has traditionally taught, "man on man, woman on woman" when it comes to a situation like yours. If you want to be a "friend" to this woman, you'd best keep your emotions in check. The easiest way to become an enabler is to let your emotions take over your common sense. Right now it "sounds" like you have a good grasp on the situation but alcoholics are as "cunning, baffling, and powerful" as the alcohol they consume. You could easily get sucked into a postition that won't do either of you any good and then look back and wonder "how the hell did this happen?" Visit her when you can and listen, but when it comes to getting honest and real, there's nothing like a person of the same sex to call a spade a spade.

Cap3

Friends,,,can you be there through my darkest hours,without trying to change me,with your own expectations,of me?Can you accept me for who i really am,and not what you think i should be?Do you have the courage,to give me the freedom,to learn in ways that i need to learn?Doing this in my own time,not the time you think that i should.When im ugly towards myself and you,will you still be here?Making no judgements,having no intentions,of your own?
Im blessed to have such a friend.Known her since i was 3 years old.She has been there through thick and thin,with me,as i have with her.Never once have we tried to change each other.And we know,that if the world ever shuts, one or the other out.We will be there for each other.No matter what.....Offerring her an extra incentive,ill take her to Hawii..Personally i would think about this.I know that i give my doggie bones to be a good boy,but humans?Im sure you mean well.Just that i ask that you think on this.For if she gets use to you giving her gifts,for good actions???,.Demands may soon come your way.This also gives me personally the feeling that you dont think that you are equals,and you are.Remember that we teach people how to treat us.I say this with intentions of being helpful not trying to be offensive,here.
Al-anon is a great program for the family and friends of alcoholics.It helps for your own recovery.
All the best of the best to you both.
God Bless,take care!!!!!!!!!!

hookst

Comments in no particular order:

The trip is an incentive because she has always wished to go to Hawaii (and so have I.) Also, after a year, I am hoping to be 80 to 100 pound lighter, because of HER friendship. We can both celebrate, if appropriate in our lives, by such a trip. And besides, what guy wouldn't like to go to Hawaii with a beautiful woman?

There are not other gifts. My impression is making that first year sober is damned hard to do, and if she makes it, she deserves something special. She knows it is only good for 1 year from the day she is out of the hospital. If she tries a drink within that year, ANY TIME... it is gone. The year is not back to day 1. It is gone.

I have the AlAnon schedule and plan to attend.

I am lucky. So far, she has been honest with me, and the only times I think she has been hiding the truth, it was from herself. I figured it out and knew otherwise. I expect her to mislead- not because she wants to lie to me, but for the same reason others in her situation (like you and yours) have done so- the power of the addiction.

"Man on man, woman on woman"- I'm not here to sponsor her. She'll have that. I don't want to be in the middle of that. I am here to be a friend. Period. Not a sponsor, not a boyfriend. A pal who just happens to have different plumbing. I can't relate to her situation or to the addiction. I don't understand the pains, the challenges. If i did, I wouldn't have been here to ask more. But she needs someone who will accept her, who will show her affection, respect, and believe in her.

I have much to learn, I know. But I'll do my best, and pray for her success. The "pros" will guide her recovery and control of her addiction. I just want to understand the role for me as someone who cares about her, and values her as a person.

As an aside- I was surprised at how very little her personality changed in the last few days. She is the same person, same wonderful sense of humor and quick laugh. I am unsure what that signifies, but I did find it interesting.

When she checked in, she had her vodka and soft drink in her favorite insulated cup. They took it from her and she didn't get the cup back. I almost bought a new one for her... and then thought "enabling!" She has no new cup.

Question: A friend who is a nurse told me that buying her some decent dinners- hamburgers, and fish & shrimp- was enabling. The hospital food is... well, put charitably, scary. Is that wrong? Was it wrong for me to offer to drive her home if my schedule fits?

FriendofBill

Hi again,

Im Christina, professional recovering enabler-rescuer-alcoholic-fixxer upper.
Re: your questions:

Yes and Yes.

Stop offering to "help". Its not help to an alcoholic, its enabling. If she knows she has someone to make things easier, tastier (The dinners), comfy (Drive home), then she will *NOT* learn to care for herself properly, thereby building her own self esteem. She may go from being reliant upon alcohol, to being dependent on you.

She needs to know that she can reply on *HER* first and formost. Alcoholics are dependent people,,first on alcohol, second on anything else,,,drugs, people, food, sex,,,or perhaps, if given the opportunity a higher power-based recovery.

We "codies" can kill people with our helping. Good intentions to be sure, bad results however. By wanting to help, we tend to rescue people from truly feeling the consequnces of thier bad choices. SOmetimes, that results in them going back out to drink some more, drive some more, kill some more folks, or themselves.

Give someone a fish, they eat for today.
Teaching someone to fish on thier own, they eat for a lifetime.

nocellphone

Take someone out fishing and push them over the side of the boat... now that's FUN!

FriendofBill

Awwww. now thats just a (brilliant idea) not funny at all...

Don S

Teach someone to catch a fish, turn it into fertilizer, plant corn on it...and the next thing you know they'll take over the whole damn continent.
Don S

hookst

Well, I got bumped for that anyway by a guy she has met once. **sigh**

Gotta get used to that...

Pick-a-name

What I say, and what I do are different! Last week my (still active) A/H of 27yrs divorced me! (so much for giving up someone with a drinking problem..haha) Yes; I lost out to his first love.