The Debate
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: CONNECTICUT
Posts: 6
The Debate
hi, i am just getting back into treatment after years. the first time was only for two months. the thing is, i change my mind from day to day. sometimes i really know i should be in treatment because im a drunk. other days i say, gee i have it under control. the thing is i keep fooling everyone telling them im drink free as i continue but slowed down. im thirty have a son who is having major problems[ psychological and learning ] and a younger son whom just started kindergarten and is struggling now too. i feel like i cant handle sobriety in the middle of all this. what is wrong with me? do i want to stop or not? ifeel like ill lose everything!!!!!!!!! how screwed up is this?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: land of 10,000 lakes
Posts: 261
Mixedup,
" how screwed up is this?" Well being that I'm
a recovering A, what you posted makes sense for me
an alcoholic. Sounds like if you drink your'e @#$$%
if you don't your'e @#$%$. I remember this. Yeks!!!
Well for me someone asked me if I had gotten to step
0..."this crap has to stop" Then I was told to proceed to
Step 1 and do that, helps if you have a sponsor or are in
a treatment program. Alot. Anyway it's up to you to decide
if you've had enough and are willing to go to any length
to get better (sober). When you have made that decision
there will be a whole bunch of great people waiting to help.
Hope this has helped you, as you have helped me.
Good Thoughts Today,
Vince
" how screwed up is this?" Well being that I'm
a recovering A, what you posted makes sense for me
an alcoholic. Sounds like if you drink your'e @#$$%
if you don't your'e @#$%$. I remember this. Yeks!!!
Well for me someone asked me if I had gotten to step
0..."this crap has to stop" Then I was told to proceed to
Step 1 and do that, helps if you have a sponsor or are in
a treatment program. Alot. Anyway it's up to you to decide
if you've had enough and are willing to go to any length
to get better (sober). When you have made that decision
there will be a whole bunch of great people waiting to help.
Hope this has helped you, as you have helped me.
Good Thoughts Today,
Vince
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: CONNECTICUT
Posts: 6
debate
THANKS SO MUCH VINCE,!!!!!
I MUST AGREE, YOU ARE SO RIGHT. I DO WANT THIS , EVEN THOUGH I FIGHT IT. I'M JUST SUCH A DIFICULT PERSON. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY. I USE TO BE SO OUT GOING, VIVACIOUS, HUMORIOUS, NOW OBNOXIOUS, ANGRY AND DIFICULT.[ VERY DEFENSIVE] I FIND COMFORT IN READING OTHERS POSTS. THANKS FOR CAREING. GOD BLESS, YOU MADE ANOTHER HAPPY TONITE! I HAVE REACHED OUT, WENT TO A NEW PSYCHIATRIST THIS WEEK. NEVER MENTIONED MY DRINKING, BUT HE KNEW. HE TOLD ME I AM AN IMPRESSIVE WOMAN. [ YEAH] HE SAID I KNEW MORE THAN MOST PEOPLE. HE ALSO SAID I HAVE NO PROBLEMS PSYCHOLOGICLY, HE SAYS MY PROBLEM IS DRINKING, AND IM QUITE SMART AND INTELLIGENT. [ RIGHT ] SO WHY SO LONELY? BEEN IN THERAPY FAITHFULLY FOR 9 YEARS. I HAVE WORKED SO MUCH ON MY PROBS. WHY STILL THIS??? I SHOULD BE BETTER, AND I KNOW BETTER. TAKE MY SON TWICE A WEEK TO YALE IN CT. . A REMARKIBLY COMPETENT PLACE. NOW FOR FIVE YEARS. I TOOK PARENTING CLASS TO BETTER MYSELF BEEN TO EVERY SPECIALIST, SO WHY STILL MIXED UP LIFE? AND I DO NOT DRINK TILL 6- 7 PM. MY DRINKS ARE WITH 1 HOUR OR A LITTLE MORE. I HAVE TO DRINK FAST. IM A TRUE ALCOHOLIC NO DENIAL. JUST EMPTINESS. SINCERLY.
I MUST AGREE, YOU ARE SO RIGHT. I DO WANT THIS , EVEN THOUGH I FIGHT IT. I'M JUST SUCH A DIFICULT PERSON. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY. I USE TO BE SO OUT GOING, VIVACIOUS, HUMORIOUS, NOW OBNOXIOUS, ANGRY AND DIFICULT.[ VERY DEFENSIVE] I FIND COMFORT IN READING OTHERS POSTS. THANKS FOR CAREING. GOD BLESS, YOU MADE ANOTHER HAPPY TONITE! I HAVE REACHED OUT, WENT TO A NEW PSYCHIATRIST THIS WEEK. NEVER MENTIONED MY DRINKING, BUT HE KNEW. HE TOLD ME I AM AN IMPRESSIVE WOMAN. [ YEAH] HE SAID I KNEW MORE THAN MOST PEOPLE. HE ALSO SAID I HAVE NO PROBLEMS PSYCHOLOGICLY, HE SAYS MY PROBLEM IS DRINKING, AND IM QUITE SMART AND INTELLIGENT. [ RIGHT ] SO WHY SO LONELY? BEEN IN THERAPY FAITHFULLY FOR 9 YEARS. I HAVE WORKED SO MUCH ON MY PROBS. WHY STILL THIS??? I SHOULD BE BETTER, AND I KNOW BETTER. TAKE MY SON TWICE A WEEK TO YALE IN CT. . A REMARKIBLY COMPETENT PLACE. NOW FOR FIVE YEARS. I TOOK PARENTING CLASS TO BETTER MYSELF BEEN TO EVERY SPECIALIST, SO WHY STILL MIXED UP LIFE? AND I DO NOT DRINK TILL 6- 7 PM. MY DRINKS ARE WITH 1 HOUR OR A LITTLE MORE. I HAVE TO DRINK FAST. IM A TRUE ALCOHOLIC NO DENIAL. JUST EMPTINESS. SINCERLY.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 710
Hi Mixedupmom,
Yup, I too had seen alot of Psychiatrists, I too thought I had been working on my problems, and I had many many problems. I too wanted to be a better mom.
I wanted to figure it all out, make sure that I knew what this was all about before I was going to do anything about it. I too lied to the Psychiatrists, and anyone who would have the nerve to bring up my drinking.
The truth is that I was willing to do alot of things to try to better myself....but I was unable to even look at the real problem.... and the real problem that I have is "alcoholism"
This is a disease, and its a disease that tells us "we do not have it".... this disease is cunning, baffling and powerful. No matter what I tried to do to figure it all out.... there I was right back drinking again.
This disease is 3 fold.... physical, mental and spiritual.
I had an obsession of the mind that wouldn't leave me alone even for one minute.... the thoughts were there all the time.... get a drink.... get a drink.... the only way to solve this is to.... get a drink. An obsession of the mind is a "thought" that overcomes all other "thoughts". So ofcourse if I couldn't "think" of anything besides a drink.... then I was going to drink.
Once I put that drink into my body.... it set up a physical compulsion for MORE. This disease centers in the mind.... it will not allow me to think of anything but getting another drink, and once I put that drink into my system, it made sure that I would continue to drink until I was drunk, sick and out of control.
Spiritually .... I did alot things to get the drink. I lied, I made up things, I fought with people on purpose so that I could then go and drink. I hurt myself and alot of people in order to continue my drinking. I had to, I didn't have a choice as to whether I would drink or not drink. I had lost the ability to choose NOT to drink. Spiritually I had a loss of values slowly, so that I could continue to do exactly what I needed to do.... DRINK. This disease is insidious.... I didn't even recognize anymore who I was or who I had become. This disease takes and takes and takes.
I found for myself that getting all the outside help that I "thought" I needed.... was great, but the one drawback to all the outside help that I got was this:
I couldn't get honest with myself about my drinking, and I couldn't get honest with anyone else about my drinking.
I could sit in the Psychiatrists office for hours, and try to rationalize all the reasons why my life was a mess. I could work on all my problems right there in the office with the Psychiatrist.
The only problem that I wasn't willing to get honest about and work on was my own "alcoholism"..... and since that was the only problem that this drunk had..... my life remained unmanagable on a daily basis.
When I got to AA meetings, I learned the true nature of the only problem that I have today:
"We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanagable"
We can sit and try to figure it all out.... or we can do something about it. When I hit bottom, there was nowhere for me to go.... so I did something about my alcoholism. I went to AA meetings, I sat and listened, I identified and I didn't compare.... I took the suggestions, and I kept coming.
Today I know that this is a disease..... its a 3 fold disease. And it lies to me on a daily basis.... yes even now after 13 years of sobriety, this disease still lies to me. Its what I do about it that counts today. I take my butt to an AA meeting because its one alcoholic helping another, to stay sober, its about the H.O.W. of this program. Honesty, Openmindedness, and Willingness.
Yes we alkies are all intelligent people, no doubt about that fact, but this is a disease, that no matter how intelligent I "think" I am....no matter how many degrees that one may possess.... the bottom line truth is that knowledge and intelligence never ever got this drunk sober.... And I TRIED lolol
I would suggest calling Alcoholics Anonymous.... they have a solution that works. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.
Love
Patsy
Yup, I too had seen alot of Psychiatrists, I too thought I had been working on my problems, and I had many many problems. I too wanted to be a better mom.
I wanted to figure it all out, make sure that I knew what this was all about before I was going to do anything about it. I too lied to the Psychiatrists, and anyone who would have the nerve to bring up my drinking.
The truth is that I was willing to do alot of things to try to better myself....but I was unable to even look at the real problem.... and the real problem that I have is "alcoholism"
This is a disease, and its a disease that tells us "we do not have it".... this disease is cunning, baffling and powerful. No matter what I tried to do to figure it all out.... there I was right back drinking again.
This disease is 3 fold.... physical, mental and spiritual.
I had an obsession of the mind that wouldn't leave me alone even for one minute.... the thoughts were there all the time.... get a drink.... get a drink.... the only way to solve this is to.... get a drink. An obsession of the mind is a "thought" that overcomes all other "thoughts". So ofcourse if I couldn't "think" of anything besides a drink.... then I was going to drink.
Once I put that drink into my body.... it set up a physical compulsion for MORE. This disease centers in the mind.... it will not allow me to think of anything but getting another drink, and once I put that drink into my system, it made sure that I would continue to drink until I was drunk, sick and out of control.
Spiritually .... I did alot things to get the drink. I lied, I made up things, I fought with people on purpose so that I could then go and drink. I hurt myself and alot of people in order to continue my drinking. I had to, I didn't have a choice as to whether I would drink or not drink. I had lost the ability to choose NOT to drink. Spiritually I had a loss of values slowly, so that I could continue to do exactly what I needed to do.... DRINK. This disease is insidious.... I didn't even recognize anymore who I was or who I had become. This disease takes and takes and takes.
I found for myself that getting all the outside help that I "thought" I needed.... was great, but the one drawback to all the outside help that I got was this:
I couldn't get honest with myself about my drinking, and I couldn't get honest with anyone else about my drinking.
I could sit in the Psychiatrists office for hours, and try to rationalize all the reasons why my life was a mess. I could work on all my problems right there in the office with the Psychiatrist.
The only problem that I wasn't willing to get honest about and work on was my own "alcoholism"..... and since that was the only problem that this drunk had..... my life remained unmanagable on a daily basis.
When I got to AA meetings, I learned the true nature of the only problem that I have today:
"We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanagable"
We can sit and try to figure it all out.... or we can do something about it. When I hit bottom, there was nowhere for me to go.... so I did something about my alcoholism. I went to AA meetings, I sat and listened, I identified and I didn't compare.... I took the suggestions, and I kept coming.
Today I know that this is a disease..... its a 3 fold disease. And it lies to me on a daily basis.... yes even now after 13 years of sobriety, this disease still lies to me. Its what I do about it that counts today. I take my butt to an AA meeting because its one alcoholic helping another, to stay sober, its about the H.O.W. of this program. Honesty, Openmindedness, and Willingness.
Yes we alkies are all intelligent people, no doubt about that fact, but this is a disease, that no matter how intelligent I "think" I am....no matter how many degrees that one may possess.... the bottom line truth is that knowledge and intelligence never ever got this drunk sober.... And I TRIED lolol
I would suggest calling Alcoholics Anonymous.... they have a solution that works. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.
Love
Patsy
Last edited by Patsyd1; 11-24-2002 at 06:12 AM.
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2
I don't know if this helps or not, but I remember several times in my first year of sobriety when I wasn't sure I was an alcoholic.
The way I eventually learned to deal with it is to have FAITH in my original conviction that I was an alcoholic. Sometimes my disease masks itself. Alcoholism is the "disease that tells you you don't have one". On some days, it was IMPOSSIBLE to imagine that I was a true alcoholic. Those were the days that my disease was strongest.
Don't try to out think this stuff! If you feel your brain trying to find reasons to drink, that's the disease. If you don't think you're an alcoholic but you did think it for the last few days, weeks, or months, THAT'S THE DISEASE.
Hope this helps!
S.O.B.er
The way I eventually learned to deal with it is to have FAITH in my original conviction that I was an alcoholic. Sometimes my disease masks itself. Alcoholism is the "disease that tells you you don't have one". On some days, it was IMPOSSIBLE to imagine that I was a true alcoholic. Those were the days that my disease was strongest.
Don't try to out think this stuff! If you feel your brain trying to find reasons to drink, that's the disease. If you don't think you're an alcoholic but you did think it for the last few days, weeks, or months, THAT'S THE DISEASE.
Hope this helps!
S.O.B.er
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Hi all,
Hey Mixedup,
You wrote:
If you keep drinking, that thought may not be as far fetched as it seems.
MAKE A DECISION. Either keep drinking, or quit! Then do whatever it takes either way. One way or the other you'll get your answer.
Hey Mixedup,
You wrote:
I think I'll lose everything....How screwed up is that?
MAKE A DECISION. Either keep drinking, or quit! Then do whatever it takes either way. One way or the other you'll get your answer.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: CONNECTICUT
Posts: 6
to everyone
THANKS TO ALL WHO REPLIED TO MY THREAD! TODAY IS FRIDAY THE 29TH. IT HAS BEEN SINCE MONDAY THAT I HAVE HAD A DRINK. I MANAGED TO GET TO A MEETING TUESDAY AND WEDNESDAY. HAVING A LITTLE TROUBLE WITH HEADACHES AND TREMBLING, I SUPOSE THAT SHOULD END THE DEBATE!!! ONE DAY AT A TIME. I FEEL COLD ALL THE TIME. HAS ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED THAT WHILE STOPPING??:p
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: CONNECTICUT
Posts: 6
to everyone
THANKS TO ALL WHO REPLIED TO MY THREAD! TODAY IS FRIDAY THE 29TH. IT HAS BEEN SINCE MONDAY THAT I HAVE HAD A DRINK. I MANAGED TO GET TO A MEETING TUESDAY AND WEDNESDAY. HAVING A LITTLE TROUBLE WITH HEADACHES AND TREMBLING, I SUPOSE THAT SHOULD END THE DEBATE!!! ONE DAY AT A TIME. I FEEL COLD ALL THE TIME. HAS ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED THAT WHILE STOPPING??:p
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oregon
Posts: 26
I'm with ya
I opted for detox on my own, instead of being locked up. That really upset my wife, but so far it is working. I started to get the shakes, and have been taking lots of vitamin C, B-Complex, and milk thistle, and they stopped. I'm only on day two.
I am with my three boys, and they are being supportive of me. When I leave the house they say...Hey dad, don't stop at the 7-11.
My wife however is not being supportive of my efforts and is creating a very stressful evironment for me right now, demanding my cell phone records and bank account information, and showing up unexpectedly and even became physically abusive. The first time I have ever seen that from her. And she is/was sober. I still love the woman, but things are getting scary here.
It may be too late for us, but regardless I am holding strong, and not drinking. It is time for a change for me.
I am with my three boys, and they are being supportive of me. When I leave the house they say...Hey dad, don't stop at the 7-11.
My wife however is not being supportive of my efforts and is creating a very stressful evironment for me right now, demanding my cell phone records and bank account information, and showing up unexpectedly and even became physically abusive. The first time I have ever seen that from her. And she is/was sober. I still love the woman, but things are getting scary here.
It may be too late for us, but regardless I am holding strong, and not drinking. It is time for a change for me.
Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 41
Detached Alone
When I was getting sober I realised quickly that I had no right to expect support from my wife or anyone else I had hurt. I had said "This time will be different " too often for anyone to believe me.
I locked up the drink that was in the house and gave her the key. I gave her access to my bank, and limited how much cash I had access to. These actions were more for her benefit than mine. If I chose to drink, I would get the money from somewhere, and she would find out I was doing it sooner or later.
I had to shift my focus from being hurt at what she was asking of me to realising that by doing these things I was making a small start at repairing the damage I had done.
I wish you well.
When I was getting sober I realised quickly that I had no right to expect support from my wife or anyone else I had hurt. I had said "This time will be different " too often for anyone to believe me.
I locked up the drink that was in the house and gave her the key. I gave her access to my bank, and limited how much cash I had access to. These actions were more for her benefit than mine. If I chose to drink, I would get the money from somewhere, and she would find out I was doing it sooner or later.
I had to shift my focus from being hurt at what she was asking of me to realising that by doing these things I was making a small start at repairing the damage I had done.
I wish you well.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: CONNECTICUT
Posts: 6
detached alone
DETACHED ALONE, SOUNDS LIKE YOUR WIFE IS JUST REALLY SCARED NOW. SOMETIMES PEOPLE REACT IN FUNNY WAYS DURING STRESS. MAYBE REMOVING YOURSELF FROM THE SITUATION AND GETTING HELP FROM THE OUTSIDE WOULD BE BETTER FOR YOU BOTH NOW. DO NOT THINK NEGATIVE, MAYBE IT COULD BE SAVED. BUT FIRST SAVE YOURSELF. 
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oregon
Posts: 26
Mixedupmom
This is day three of self-detox. Last night, I too was cold. I also notice I have bags under my eyes, even though I have been getting plenty of rest. No cravings yet thank god. Monday after work I begin five weeks of intensive outpatient treatment. Not sure what to expect, kinda scary.....perhaps the benefits of that will be a big payoff for me.
My wife and I have removed ourselves from the stress-filled arena we found ourselves in yesterday, and are currently dealing with ourselves.
You are right. Save myself first.
My wife and I have removed ourselves from the stress-filled arena we found ourselves in yesterday, and are currently dealing with ourselves.
You are right. Save myself first.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: CONNECTICUT
Posts: 6
dear detached
I AM HAPPY YOU ARE GOING FOR HELP. CONGRATS TO YOU. MY HUSBAND TOO IS BEING VERY DIFICULT AND CREATING A LOT A STRESS FOR ME. ALMOST LIKE HE IS TRYING TO SET ME UP. I IGNORE HIM AND GO TO A MEETING. I HOPE THINGS TRULY WORK FOR YOU, JUST ONE DAY AT A TIME. GIVE YOURSELF A LITTLE EXTRA PAT ON THE SHOULDER. MAYBE THIS WILL PUT THINGS IN PERCPECTIVE FOR YOU.??? I KNOW IM FREEZING COLD AND NOW SEEM TO HAVE THE SNIFFLES. MAYBE COINCIDENCE OR MAYBE FROM WITHDRAWL?? BYE MY FRIEND.....:p 
:andy:
:andy:
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