chris k

Why why why????? I see all these questions on why am i an alcoholic? What caused this symptom or that sympton? I did that crap from 1985 to 1992 and continued to get drunk.
The only pertinant question once I understand that I have alcoholism is this....... WHAT AM I GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
It doesnt matter if I got it from Mommy or Daddy or off the damn toilet seat. I had to retire from the debating society, take the actions, and trust the process.
I have never met anyone too stupid to follow the directions in the big book, by the same token i personally got to watch a man with an engineering degree from M.I.T. work as a Dominos pizza delivery guy and drink himself to death, because he said it was too simple to work. He is DEAD. His WIDOW sent the group a thank you letter for trying to help him. Alanon helped her survive watching him die of serociss of the liver.
I guess if I was trying to make up my mind on whether or not i needed to do somthing about my alcoholism, and still had alot of worldly possesions, family that would still have somthing to do with me it might be hard to do. Oh yeah I lost all that before I could get honest and humble. Some need to hit a lower bottom than I did, others seem to be able to get honest and humble enough to save themselves without loosing everything. Thats my experiance. My sponsor used to tell me liking it is not a requirement taking the actions is.

CarolD

understand where you are coming from Chris!

Plant the seed my dear....

Don W

Chris, I can only speak for myself but, it was a disguise to learn how to drink more. You see, I admit it now, I thought that once I figured out why. I'd correct it. Most of us alcholics are pretty smart. We think all we need to do is interlecturalize something. The problem with me, I was trying to make sense of something that makes no sense.
I mean, when we put our hand on a hot stove and get burned, we might try a second or third time but hundreds and hundreds? I was going to figure out what none of you could. Would have been a great " Told you so" but You all told me so. Like I said. Even once you found out why you got burnt by that stove, you'd still get burned by that stove. Don W

roadie58

I'm with ya Chris. I thought I had it nipped in the bud early, about three years ago. But instead I continued to research, losing my family farm, thousands $, gf, nearly my business and of course, my health and sanity.

It is cunning, baffling, and powerful. I guess it's tough to know when someone might hit their bottom. It is such an insidious disease. Sometimes the smartest people can't follow this simple program. They told me that I might not get it. But just today a guy with 9 years told me I was starting to sound like an old-timer. What a great compliment! Who would have thought that I could understand and follow simple instrucitons.

The Big Book, however well written, is somewhat verbose and has arcane language in sections. If you really study it and look up the words you don't know, they are exactly right, but it is very difficult for some people to follow. I think the phrase 'more will be revealed' is very true about our text. Each succeeding reading brings about more truths, more hints for better living. It's truly a great read if you give it time.

Peace, out.

Phinneas

I totally hear you, Chris. I used to agonize over the "WHY?" and all it ever did was keep me stuck. Lesson learned (the hard way, of course). But, when I did hit that lowest of the low points and surrender, suddenly the why of it ceased to matter. It was the HOW that I've cared about ever since.

I hear people agonize just like I did - why am I an alcoholic? Or, why did my spouse cheat on me? I dunno... That's where acceptance comes in, I guess. "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change..."


Oh, and by the way, this is not easy for me. I am a person who is endlessly trying to figure things out. So, if I can get to that place of acceptance, there sure as heck is hope for you guys, too.

hugs,

phinny

Chy

When my sponsor slapped me upside the head I quit asking "why". I am what I am take it or leave it. I so get ya!

GG733

I agree, 'WHY' is pointless. 'WHY' is a way to avoid doing anything...to avoid looking at our mess.

nocellphone

Sometimes, the answer to "Why?" is simply "Because!"

NoMoBeer

Great post...

I guess that's why the chapter is "How It Works," and not "Why It Works..."

I had the same problem for a while.... just too smart for the program. Finally one day my (now) sponsor, a brilliant man in his own right said "I don't know why this stuff works, I just do what the book says, and I'm sober..."

So, for the past 10 months, that's what's been working for me...

Thanks again for this thread...

Ken

michaelj

Chris,
Asking why is part of what makes us human. We want to know how things work and how they affect us. The human race has been benefitted to the most amazing extent because of people asking "why".
As for alcoholism I am certain that I am an alcoholic because I wanted to reproduce the great buzz I got from my first drink. My brain craved that buzz and I went to ridiculous lengths to satisfy the craving.
I needed to understand the process through asking why so that I could take the necessary steps to ensure my sobriety. For me sobriety is built on what I believe are the mechanics of the addiction.
What this does not answer is why I am more affected by this desire to replicate the buzz than most "normal" people. Is it in my genes? Is it in my upbringing? Now for these questions I have no answer, though I suspect it is simply the way my brain is wired. I just have to accept it is "because".
This is one of those threads that makes me think and examine the root causes of my addiction and I am grateful for that opportunity.
Best wishes
Michael

Don S

If you don't examine your reasons for drinking, you aren't likely to achieve longterm sobriety. IMO.
Don S

chris k

"men and women drink essentially because they LIKE THE EFFECT produced by alcohol" its just that simple. The people I know with long term sobriety understand that, and move on. I have watched people with short term sobriety put it under a microscope and debate their way to a drink. i did this myself. When i worked all twelve steps in order with the help of a sponsor, i got a good look at what i had become, cleaned up my past to the best of my ability, and moved on with my life. ive been sober now a little over 13 years thats my experiance and observation.

Don S

"men and women drink essentially because they LIKE THE EFFECT produced by alcohol"
...or because it helps them cope with anxiety or depression or stress. So if they don't examine the sources of their anxiety, deal with their depression, or cope with their stress factors, they are likely to continue to believe that alcohol has a useful role in their lives.
If you've moved on, do you still attend AA meetings?
Don S

equus

What about the next generation? The kids we walk past in the street? Isn't it worth effort to know more for them?

At school I was warned about taking drugs and smoking - drinking we were warned IF blah blah blah (teenager switches off - how does homelessness, and alcoholism apply to them?).....

I never remember being told one person may be more vulnerable than the next. I don't remember anyone saying they didn't know why one and not the other, oh and I have the memory of an elephant!

I'm not an alcoholic, maybe I could have been if I wasn't a lightweight - the one laughed at because even drinking every night at uni I still couldn't hold more than 3 pints without being ill or just falling asleep. How come I got to be so damn safe?

Answers for an individual aside - (that's each individuals coice whether they want to understand), people, science and maybe even here the question has got to be asked.

In my home town I see kids 14/15 getting drunk in the park. Booze doesn't have warnings on the labels, schools don't suggest there's a risk to 'normal' drinking as long as your old enough (big carrot to teenagers!), who talks about how or why one thing turns into another?

As Ghandi said:
"Be the change you want to see in the world."

chris k

Yes Don i go to meetings on a regular basis, and read the big book. my quote was from the dr's opinion, pg xxvi in 3rd edition. if i am drinking because of anxiety or depression or stress, it might be for the effect produced by alcohol, which by the waytakes me right back around to the topic. If I have alcoholism it does not matter how or why I got it. What am I going to about my alcoholism is the only question.

lulu70

So, by that reasoning, if we address the issues which may have made us drink dangerously, we should be able to return to drinking and be able to control it? I drank because it made me feel better about myself. I have been working on the self-esteem issues and they are getting better, but I KNOW I cannot ever go back to drinking because no matter how I feel about myself or what condition my mental health is in, I am an ALCOHOLIC and that will never change. So, basically, why I drank is really of no consequence. Everyone has issues. Not everyone is an alcoholic.

Gooch

why not? why not? why not?

Don S

Actually, I don't think that really follows from what I was saying for a couple of reasons.
It would be a rare person who would be able to eliminate all sources of anxiety and stress, 'cure' their depression completely, etc. They may not be the reason we started to drink, but many people report these as being reasons they continued to drink long after it became obvious that they had a problem. Learning to cope more effectively is not likely to be something we'll ever get perfect at.
Once we've created a behavioral pattern, it's very easy to fall back into it. So many people, I think, quit drinking successfully; then their lives get stressful again, they think a drink will help them relax, and slowly they increase their drinking until they find they're back at harmful levels again. (I've certainly seen that happen with cigarettes.)
There are behavioral pathways we've firmly imprinted on our brains, and which most of us close off by means of abstinence. A drink or two reopens that pathway. It revives the belief that alcohol has a useful role in our lives, and changing that belief is the key to sobriety.

You may find it useful to call yourself an alcoholic. Personally, I don't describe someone who no longer drinks as an alcoholic, since I consider it to be a condition resulting from behavior. So once the behavior has changed, and the beliefs that sustained it have changed, the term in my opinion no longer applies. I suppose on that basis one could call oneself a 'former alcoholic'. But I believe that describing your current behavior is more accurate and affirming -- "I used to drink heavily, now I don't drink at all" -- and therefore more likely to help support your decision for abstinence.
Don S

Music

From the AA Big Book:

"Now these are commonplace observations on drinkers which we hear all the time. Back of them is a world of ignorance and misunderstanding. We see that these expressions refer to people whose reactions are very different from ours.

Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They can take it or leave it alone.

Then we have a certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a doctor becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention.

But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.

Here is a fellow who has been puzzling you, especially in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He is seldom mildly intoxicated. He is always more or less insanely drunk. His disposition while drinking resembles his normal nature but little. He may be one of the finest fellows in the world. Yet let him drink for a day, and he frequently becomes disgustingly, and even dangerously anti-social. He has a positive genius for getting tight at exactly the wrong moment, particularly when some important decision must be made or engagement kept. He is often perfectly sensible and well balanced concerning everything except liquor, but in that respect he is incredibly dishonest and selfish. He often possesses special abilities, skills, and aptitudes, and has a promising career ahead of him. He uses his gifts to build up a bright outlook for his family and himself, and then pulls the structure down on his head by a senseless series of sprees. He is the fellow who goes to bed so intoxicated he ought to sleep the clock around. Yet early next morning he searches madly for the bottle he misplace the night before. If he can afford it, he may have liquor concealed all over his house to be certain no one gets his entire supply away from him to throw down the wastepipe. As matters grow worse, he begins to use a combination of high-powered sedative and liquor to quiet his nerves so he can go to work. Then comes the day when he simply cannot make it and gets drunk all over again. Perhaps he goes to a doctor who gives him morphine or some sedative with which to taper off. Then he begins to appear at hospitals and sanitariums.

This is by no means a comprehensive picture of the true alcoholic, as our behavior patterns vary. But this description should identify him roughly."

When I read the quote above, I can see a definate progression in my drinking from the time I was 18 when I got drunk the first time, to age 34 when I quit. I passed through the different stages of drinking until I reached the point of drinking to maintain that constant edge which kept me just one step ahead of a hangover and possible DTs.

I believe people who are able to sober up on their own fall into one of a couple categories. They either exagerate the amount they drink and the problems their drinking caused, never quite getting passed the moderate drinking stage; are moderate to heavy drinkers but are still able to maintain some control; or are heavy drinkers and as was stated above are able to stop if things get bad enough. These people however, are not "Real Alcoholics" wno have reached the point of not being able to stop drinking without help.

I don't care why I'm an alcoholic, or who knows I'm an alcoholic as long as I don't forget that I'm an alcoholic.

findingout

This makes a lot of sense to me, especially when combined with the earlier point that we drank because we liked the effect of the drug. I think a bad outcome for me would be to have one or two drinks and have nothing particullarly bad happen. The door would be open again and knowing my past behavior, I would pretty quickly walk through it. I'd start wondering when the next time I could "safely" have one, two, or maybe even three drinks again. I'd start planning my drinking again. I'd start using alcohol as a reward again. I'd start needing to drink again. The obsession would be back.


Me too. First hand. One of the many reasons why I will continue to resist the desire to believe that one drink won't hurt. Today, I just don't need alcohol in my life and I want more than anything else to keep it that way. Why? Why? Why? Because my life is better today than it ever was during the 25 years I was using. Because in order to get rid of the obsession, I had to do things which have changed my beliefs and behaviors. Because, for me, one is too many and one thousand was never enough.

One Love, One Heart,
Tony