natsta

A friend of mine is a chronic alcoholic. She has been through several supervised detoxes but eventually always started drinking again. It got so bad for her that she had 3 seizures in the space of 3 weeks whenever she cut down. She developed alcoholic gastro, where she would be violently ill every morning after a heavy night of drinking. She looked very ill, always pale and very tired looking. It was dreadful to watch. She had her last detox 3 weeks ago. She did it at her parents house under the supervision of her dr and her parent. She has managed to stay sober since then which is fantastic but unfortunately now that she is sober she thinks that she is cured. She said to me the other day that she thinks that she will be ok drinking small amounts in social settings. I personally think she's crazy, and told her so, in a nice way of course, but she just blew up and said just because I (myself) can't drink doesn't mean she won't be able to control it. Is social drinking ever possible when you are an alcoholic? Are there people who are actually able to drink small amounts and not go out of control? I'm really worried about her, she's changed so much in the last 3 weeks, she has become really bitchy, moody, says nasty things to her friends. It's like she's a completly different person. She may be physically sober but to me she's still acting like she's drunk.

If anyone can offer any insight to my ramblings I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

Don S

Hoo, boy.
She is right that your drinking pattern is no indication of what hers will be.
It is true that some people who used to drink heavily are able to drink moderately later in life.
But they generally aren't people who have drunk so heavily as to get the medical symptoms you describe. More to the point, they generally aren't people who have had to do supervised detoxes in order to become sober. They are people who were motivated to change their behavior and learned the tools (somehow) to control their impulses.
If she plans to drink 'moderately' you might want to acquaint her with what that means. There are specific guidelines for men and women she can read at the web site of Moderation Management (http://moderation.org/). If at any time she exceeds those, she's pretty well proven that she's not capable of controlling her drinking. Hopefully she'll then come to the same conclusion most of us have: that abstinence is the simplest, safest way for us to avoid the damage alcohol abuse does to us.

The irritability you're describing is not uncommon for someone who has quit drinking. Dysphoria, moodiness, irritability are all things she should discuss with her doctor. It is possible that she has anxiety or depression. Those may be factors in her prior drinking and may make it hard for her to stay quit. Her physician can refer her to a counselor trained in substance abuse issues; she may want to ask about one with a background in REBT (cognitive behavioral) approaches. Medication might also be helpful for some conditions.

Personally I'd say she's very unlikely to succeed at controlled drinking. But I guess it's a lesson she'll have to learn on her own.

Don S

natsta

Thanks so much for your quick reply Don.

I saw her this afternoon and it scared me to see the way she is acting towards others who are close to her. It actually seemed like she is pushing people away, which is worrying because she does have a history of depression and has attempted suicide once before. I don't know what to think anymore.

She is heading out tonight clubbing and says she's going to "allow" herself a few glasses of wine. I was planning on going with her to kind of make sure she's ok but I have a terrible ulcer in my mouth and feel rather lousy, plus I've only been sober myself for 4 days and didn't really want the temptation.

I really hope she gets her life together. I have told her about SR but she refuses to admit she's still got a problem.

CarolD

Congratulations on your sober time!

For ne...there is no few glasses of anything. Moderation/comtrolled drinking ia something that I tried and failed with.

Mot until I totallly gave up on the idea of drinking did I find the joy of recovery.

As far as your friends attitude she is most likely in PAWS. You can find the info in the top sticky here.

michaelj

Natsta,
As someone who tried controlling drinking over an extended period I am sorry to say that your friend is probably going to fail. For most alcoholics the first drink almost always leads on and on. As the old Irish saying goes "one's enough, two's too many and three's not half enough". I would expect that she will be unable to stop after one or two and that the detox will have been in vain.
Whenever I had that first drink it was always going to be the only one that day. Several hours and many more drinks later I would be completely out of it. The next day I would try the experiment all over again. The inability to learn from experience is astounding with alcohol. I can think of no other damaging process that we would willingly undergo time after time.
I do hope your friend will be OK and I wish you every success in your sobriety. You have a great deal on your plate without taking on the worry of your friend's problems.
Michael

findingout

Hey natsta,

Congratulations on your sobriety. Very cool.

As for your friend, several supervised detoxes, 3 seizures in 3 weeks, and alcoholic gastro?!?!?!? Alcoholic or not, it's hard to imagine that she would even want to go near the stuff. Well, actually it's not. I watched my own life crumble from the inside out and from the outside in all the while believing that nothing was more important than being able to drink. My sister has been hospitalized several times and still gone back out. The last time, we were told to expect the worst and that she probably wouldn't leave the hospital alive. She did but she still went back out.

There is a very powerful force working in your friend's life right now. It's called denial. What I've been taught and what I've experienced is that the only thing that can counteract this force is acceptance. Until your friend accepts the fact that she cannot drink, she will continue to drink.

It's obvious from your post that you care about her and want to help her. Please guard your own sobriety first. The best thing you can do is set a positive example and share your experience, strength and hope with her when and if she wants to hear it.

One Love, One Heart, Jah Bless
Tony

heyhaze

I believe that once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. The only ones that can drink social and control are the ones that have never been effected by the disease of alcoholism. We learn in the program that if you go back to drinking, you go right back to your same pattern and each time its worse. I am a good example of that. This last year has been my worse as far as how much I drank. I was in great denial because more times that not I could quit after 4 or 5 so I told myself I was controling it. Ha! What a laugh, I was doing it EVERY day. And there were the weekends that I would drink a 12 pack. I don't consider that controlled drinking. I also told myself that as long as I didn't make a fool of myself like I use to then I was ok, I wasn't thinking of my health or the fact that when I wanted to quit again it was going to be the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. Life like usual, became unmanageable and the alcohol took over my life. To me, very few alcoholics can make it once they have accepted they were powerless over alcohol.
Vickie

Chabroso

natsta please just take care of yourself. Your sobriety is the most important thing for you to consider at this stage. Unfortunately it seems your friend has not had enough of the horrors of alcohol as yet. Her health and her life are severely compromised and still she is in denial.

Don't they say that the definition of insanity is to keep doing things the same way but expect a different outcome? That is the insanity of the alcoholic who keeps thinking that things will be different this time.

laurenlanai

wow! Thank you for sharing your friends story. I am 24 and have been sober just under 3 years. I never had to get to that point in my drinking. The insane thing is lately I too was thinking I might be able to conrol my drinking even after everyhting I have learned about the disease. And when I was having those thoughts I never thought about those physical sympstms that will happen to me eventually if I pick up a drink. Not to sound mean but for me hearing that it is just a breath of fresh air to know that my alcoholism can take me there if I don't continue to do the things that I have been taught in alcoholics anonymous.
Thank you again for sharing, this site has been so helpful to actually see how cunning baffling and powerful this thing is. It proves that everything the Big Book says is right!

Music

Hi natsta,
Sounds to me like your friend hasn't discovered denial yet. She's still listening to her head which is giving her bad info. If I were you, I'd tell her that I love her and care about her and if she thinks she can drink moderately, give it a try. From that point, I wouldn't be involved with her if there's alcohol in the picture in any form. I wouldn't talk to her if she's drunk, I wouldn't clean up after her, bail her out of trouble, or cover for her in any way. If she calls sober and wants to talk, that's fine. Then I'd be honest with her.


I love it when people equate "heavy drinking" with "alcoholism." My answer is "NO." For an alcoholic to attempt social drinking is like playing Russian roulette. I believe it's impossible for an "alcoholic" to ever drink safely. Once the obsession is satisfied and the compulsion sets in, for an alcoholic, there's no stopping. The solution is "NO ALCOHOL" whatsoever.


Yup!!!! They're called, normal drinkers....

natsta

Thankyou so much for all your replies. I read every single one. I'm just so worried about her. She is out right now clubbing, it's 11.30pm here in Aus and I'm sure she's destroying her last detox. It upsets me sooo much because I know she could do so much better. I'm considering driving to where she is and checking on her. I know she would be so mad at me but at this point I don't care. I just want her to be ok.

lulu70

((((((Natsta)))))) If is important for you to remember that NOTHING you do or don't do is going to make your friend better. It is up to her. No matter what happens, please don't blame yourself. That won't help either one of you. My suggestion? I would simply tell your friend that you love her and want her to be well, but that as long as she is destroying her life with alcohol, you cannot be a part of it because it is too painful. Then try to distance yourself as much as possible. You have to take care of yourself first. You will never be able to be any help to her if you aren't healthy. I would also suggest visiting the Friends and Family forum here. There are a lot of people there who have been in the same place you are.

This is such an ugly, horrible disease when we are deep in the throes of active addiction.

Hang in there, hon'. I will say an extra prayer for your friend.

Hugs--

Music

natsta, I know her behavior upsets you but it's HER CHOICE!! There's nothing you can do except drive yourself nuts. You response to her behavior is exactly what Al-anon talks about being co-dependent. You're taking on her problems and making her problems, your problems. Let her go. She's ok if you believe that she's in God's hands. You have no business checking on her. You aren't her caretaker. Take care of yourself so that if/when she needs you, you'll be able to help her.