Help (Please Read)
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 501
Help (Please Read)
I have been sober now for two years and, although my early days were new exciting and fruitful – I seemed to have hit a lull.
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I am, more increasingly, becoming cynical and afraid of AA. And because this makes me feel guilty I feel even worse. I feel that all my old beliefs, all the things that used to make me happy, are mostly absent now – after two years of AA indoctrination. Brainwashed is a term that I am not yet willing to accept, but it is at the back of my mind. I feel suppressed, scared, and trying to fix with the ‘language of the heart’, which most of it means gibberish to me. I feel any criticism of AA in my head is signs that I will drink, die, go crazy or am morally or egotistically sick.
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I am scared to share in fear of being called ‘nuts’ or a ‘dry drunk’. I don’t want what they have: that is a pathological need for serenity (talk about chase your tail endlessly), at the exclusion of all else. I am twenty-three years old and I want fun, excitement, life, to read books, etc. I know AA does not say I cannot have them things, but if I want to really “give myself to this programme” then I fear that means I have to eliminate all the things that are part of my character (and I have a strong character).
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I just don’t know – AA can give me the creeps, its language, its gurus. The idea constantly impounded that I am not like “other people.” I didn’t get sober to serve God or to become part of a cult.
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Any thoughts?
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I am, more increasingly, becoming cynical and afraid of AA. And because this makes me feel guilty I feel even worse. I feel that all my old beliefs, all the things that used to make me happy, are mostly absent now – after two years of AA indoctrination. Brainwashed is a term that I am not yet willing to accept, but it is at the back of my mind. I feel suppressed, scared, and trying to fix with the ‘language of the heart’, which most of it means gibberish to me. I feel any criticism of AA in my head is signs that I will drink, die, go crazy or am morally or egotistically sick.
<o:p></o:p>
I am scared to share in fear of being called ‘nuts’ or a ‘dry drunk’. I don’t want what they have: that is a pathological need for serenity (talk about chase your tail endlessly), at the exclusion of all else. I am twenty-three years old and I want fun, excitement, life, to read books, etc. I know AA does not say I cannot have them things, but if I want to really “give myself to this programme” then I fear that means I have to eliminate all the things that are part of my character (and I have a strong character).
<o:p></o:p>
I just don’t know – AA can give me the creeps, its language, its gurus. The idea constantly impounded that I am not like “other people.” I didn’t get sober to serve God or to become part of a cult.
<o:p></o:p>
Any thoughts?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Hi Mill, and welcome to SoberRecovery.
I'll just say this. Having a strong character myself, I've had moments of internal reflection about AA and my relationship with the program.
And for the most part, it continues to be a viable tool for me.
I try to separate AA from AA members, if that makes sense.
What that does for me is simplify my emotional reactions. Most of the negative stimuli I may be subjected to comes from members. Not AA.
It's much easier then to react rationaly. For me, anyway.
I'll just say this. Having a strong character myself, I've had moments of internal reflection about AA and my relationship with the program.
And for the most part, it continues to be a viable tool for me.
I try to separate AA from AA members, if that makes sense.
What that does for me is simplify my emotional reactions. Most of the negative stimuli I may be subjected to comes from members. Not AA.
It's much easier then to react rationaly. For me, anyway.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Greetings. Glad you're here on SR.
I've been in AA and sober for 28 years. I've gone through periods just like you described and the answer for me was to change something. AA is not about dependency on AA. I suppose some people do take it to that extreme but that doesn't mean you or I have to. Somewhere around pages 100 or 101 in the Big Book there is talk about the "alcoholic mind." It says that we can do anything anyone else can do. If we're afraid to live life, we still have that alcoholic mind. I hear people in AA talk about stuff that makes me think, "man, it must really suck to be you." But, I remember to Live and Let Live. Don't forget, AA is made up of "people" and some people run to extremes. Some don't take any medication because they think it'll tip the wagon. Some are so involved in service work that they don't have time for their families because they're gone all the time. I've always tried to reach the point of moderation. I don't have a problem with obsessions and compulsions. I can be those things about just about anything. I work on moderation. I hate hearing about those "normies". Like there's some kind of separation between "us and them." One of the greatest gifts AA has given me is the ability to see myself as just another person amongst all the people. I'm no better or worse, and with the exception of the alcohol thingy, I'm no different. There are plenty of people out there who just don't drink. I'm one of them now. No big deal!! AA is about growing and maturing to a point where I can live my life without fear of anything or anyone, even alcohol. That means I have to get out and explore and learn about my place in the overall scheme of things. I can't do that sitting day after day, night after night in an AA meeting. Take the risk. To hell with what people think. Get out there and experience life without drinking. That's what AA's about. Cults tend to control and keep a person under it's thumb. Yup, there are people in AA who think that way and there are people in churches who think that way. I know people who's job keeps them all hours and all days and who think about nothing else. MODERATION my friend. Don't let what you hear, see, or feel at AA meetings run you off. If you do, you've allowed the disease to get a grip on you once more and eventually......well, who knows. Stay in touch here and keep posting. But above all, remember this. A resentment against AA or anyone in it will kill us faster than anything else. It keeps me out of meetings, it affects my faith and belief in the program and something has kept you sober for two years. Relax and let the stuff you don't like, run off your back. It can't affect you if you don't let it.
I've been in AA and sober for 28 years. I've gone through periods just like you described and the answer for me was to change something. AA is not about dependency on AA. I suppose some people do take it to that extreme but that doesn't mean you or I have to. Somewhere around pages 100 or 101 in the Big Book there is talk about the "alcoholic mind." It says that we can do anything anyone else can do. If we're afraid to live life, we still have that alcoholic mind. I hear people in AA talk about stuff that makes me think, "man, it must really suck to be you." But, I remember to Live and Let Live. Don't forget, AA is made up of "people" and some people run to extremes. Some don't take any medication because they think it'll tip the wagon. Some are so involved in service work that they don't have time for their families because they're gone all the time. I've always tried to reach the point of moderation. I don't have a problem with obsessions and compulsions. I can be those things about just about anything. I work on moderation. I hate hearing about those "normies". Like there's some kind of separation between "us and them." One of the greatest gifts AA has given me is the ability to see myself as just another person amongst all the people. I'm no better or worse, and with the exception of the alcohol thingy, I'm no different. There are plenty of people out there who just don't drink. I'm one of them now. No big deal!! AA is about growing and maturing to a point where I can live my life without fear of anything or anyone, even alcohol. That means I have to get out and explore and learn about my place in the overall scheme of things. I can't do that sitting day after day, night after night in an AA meeting. Take the risk. To hell with what people think. Get out there and experience life without drinking. That's what AA's about. Cults tend to control and keep a person under it's thumb. Yup, there are people in AA who think that way and there are people in churches who think that way. I know people who's job keeps them all hours and all days and who think about nothing else. MODERATION my friend. Don't let what you hear, see, or feel at AA meetings run you off. If you do, you've allowed the disease to get a grip on you once more and eventually......well, who knows. Stay in touch here and keep posting. But above all, remember this. A resentment against AA or anyone in it will kill us faster than anything else. It keeps me out of meetings, it affects my faith and belief in the program and something has kept you sober for two years. Relax and let the stuff you don't like, run off your back. It can't affect you if you don't let it.
Professional Alcoholic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 67
Hey Mill, Much like yourself I've been sober for two years. I found AA wasn't for me at all. I went to a couple of meetings voluntarily and seen what they had to offer. It seems some people can't live their life without it and become dependent on AA. I take nothing away from the good folks at AA, but then there are those that think their way is the only way. No different from people you meet everyday, everywhere. People live sober lives away from AA, and go on to be productive members of society. Dangerous Dan said it well by the separation of AA and the people of AA. Whatever the lull your experiencing is, don't try to fill it by drinking. For me quitting drinking means do not drink. It's that easy for me. I'm aware of all the ways that my mind thinks about alcohol. Ya know, one or two wont hurt a thing. If I drank a beer, I'd be drunk in 2 hours or less. I fill the lulls I experience with positive things. Doesn't matter if they seem mundane at that time, I do them anyway. Good luck Mill and congrats on your sobriety.
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 15,203
What was it like while you were drinking? I couldn't have imagined not drinking at your age. If, you had it so bad you went to AA at the age of 21 your life must have been bad.
Don't ever forget what made you go to AA in the first place.
The majority of us stay in AA for the fellowship. It's rewarding doing service work. Do you sponser anyone?
Try to remember, AA is only as good as you and the members in it.
We have real small meetings where I am. I need to be on line to here the newcommers come in and remind me of what it's like. I've never seen any one come in and get sober and go back out and drink normally. The people that do go back out, their lives get messed up pretty quick.
Don't ever forget what made you go to AA in the first place.
The majority of us stay in AA for the fellowship. It's rewarding doing service work. Do you sponser anyone?
Try to remember, AA is only as good as you and the members in it.
We have real small meetings where I am. I need to be on line to here the newcommers come in and remind me of what it's like. I've never seen any one come in and get sober and go back out and drink normally. The people that do go back out, their lives get messed up pretty quick.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 501
Thank you Music, Dan, and Captain.
Music, you know what - in an incredibly more healthy way - that is kind of the attitude i had when i was drinking: to experience everything, to learn, to overcome. Problem was I couldnt do it because of my alcaholisim and the depression, confusion etc. I had quite a healthy out look on life, like the one you wrote about , whilst I was drinking - but was too crazy to do anything about it!
And what is comforting in your post is that you still have retained that LUST, that awe for being simply alive. Your primary concern is not attaining "serenity". I am mischevious, adventerous, happy go lucky (mostly) and I just feel that I have lost that attitude to being alive and that it will never return as long as I have the weight of alcholisim round my feet.
Your message also is one of common sense - no strange pop pschology or AA presumptions - that I can be whoever I want to be. I need to hear this stuff.
Please do me a favour Captain and share what you wrote at a meeting.
And, as for me, I need to get out more.
He he.
Thanks guys.
Music, you know what - in an incredibly more healthy way - that is kind of the attitude i had when i was drinking: to experience everything, to learn, to overcome. Problem was I couldnt do it because of my alcaholisim and the depression, confusion etc. I had quite a healthy out look on life, like the one you wrote about , whilst I was drinking - but was too crazy to do anything about it!
And what is comforting in your post is that you still have retained that LUST, that awe for being simply alive. Your primary concern is not attaining "serenity". I am mischevious, adventerous, happy go lucky (mostly) and I just feel that I have lost that attitude to being alive and that it will never return as long as I have the weight of alcholisim round my feet.
Your message also is one of common sense - no strange pop pschology or AA presumptions - that I can be whoever I want to be. I need to hear this stuff.
Please do me a favour Captain and share what you wrote at a meeting.
And, as for me, I need to get out more.
He he.
Thanks guys.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 501
See that is what scares me. This kind of emotional black mail. Get of your arse and help someone. I am always helping, doing service.
AS for "the majority of us stay in for the felloship"...I thought it was about what makes YOU stay in.
I dont know, I am not having ago, but this kind of lack of sympathy and bloody mindedness gives me the creeps.
AS for "the majority of us stay in for the felloship"...I thought it was about what makes YOU stay in.
I dont know, I am not having ago, but this kind of lack of sympathy and bloody mindedness gives me the creeps.
Originally Posted by CAPTAINZING2000
What was it like while you were drinking? I couldn't have imagined not drinking at your age. If, you had it so bad you went to AA at the age of 21 your life must have been bad.
Don't ever forget what made you go to AA in the first place.
The majority of us stay in AA for the fellowship. It's rewarding doing service work. Do you sponser anyone?
Try to remember, AA is only as good as you and the members in it.
We have real small meetings where I am. I need to be on line to here the newcommers come in and remind me of what it's like. I've never seen any one come in and get sober and go back out and drink normally. The people that do go back out, their lives get messed up pretty quick.
Don't ever forget what made you go to AA in the first place.
The majority of us stay in AA for the fellowship. It's rewarding doing service work. Do you sponser anyone?
Try to remember, AA is only as good as you and the members in it.
We have real small meetings where I am. I need to be on line to here the newcommers come in and remind me of what it's like. I've never seen any one come in and get sober and go back out and drink normally. The people that do go back out, their lives get messed up pretty quick.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Millwallj
I'm an al-anoner just popping in from "downstairs" - hope you don't mind. As you may or may not know, we follow the 12 Steps based on AA.
I am curious as to why you don't want serenity. What does serenity mean to you? To me, it means inner peace. That doesn't stop me having great fun in my life. In fact, I think serenity enhances the excitement.
Good luck in your continued sobriety.
Love
Minnie
xxx
I'm an al-anoner just popping in from "downstairs" - hope you don't mind. As you may or may not know, we follow the 12 Steps based on AA.
I am curious as to why you don't want serenity. What does serenity mean to you? To me, it means inner peace. That doesn't stop me having great fun in my life. In fact, I think serenity enhances the excitement.
Good luck in your continued sobriety.
Love
Minnie
xxx
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NYC, NY
Posts: 193
Hi Millwallj
Sorry you are feeling down. I am quite new to my sobriety, so I am defintiely in that early recovery euphoria. I too would consider myself a very stong willed person and adventurer...so I am pretty terrified of the day when I am feeling that I may have lost that in this process....don't want that to happen at any price (except returning to drinking) It is why I also have some problems with the AA "mindset" and what I feel can be a "herd mentaility" or lack of true personal individuation and growth. I also know that I need to experience much more of AA and its members before I make any conclusions about that for my personal recovery. I am going to two meetings today, one regular meeting and one for agnostics in AA...very curious about that approach.
Anyway, the topic you have brought up...however important to you and others...can be very sticky here!! and in other environments I'm sure....take a look at the Alcoholics board here, there is a thread started "alternatives" which is a very interesting, if at times a frustrating dialogue between people who have chosen different paths. But, it gets to the core of alot of what you are feeling now.
Wish I had more to offer...I have been thinking a lot about something I read on line on one of the non- 12 step sites, paraphrased: Why talk about, focus on, obsess with, worry about, etc... not drinking? It can be more simple and less agonizing...Why not just not drink? I would love to reach that point someday, where I am living a healthy, sober and exciting life, without spending every moment thinking and worrying about my sobriety.
Best Wishes to you.
Don't really have
Sorry you are feeling down. I am quite new to my sobriety, so I am defintiely in that early recovery euphoria. I too would consider myself a very stong willed person and adventurer...so I am pretty terrified of the day when I am feeling that I may have lost that in this process....don't want that to happen at any price (except returning to drinking) It is why I also have some problems with the AA "mindset" and what I feel can be a "herd mentaility" or lack of true personal individuation and growth. I also know that I need to experience much more of AA and its members before I make any conclusions about that for my personal recovery. I am going to two meetings today, one regular meeting and one for agnostics in AA...very curious about that approach.
Anyway, the topic you have brought up...however important to you and others...can be very sticky here!! and in other environments I'm sure....take a look at the Alcoholics board here, there is a thread started "alternatives" which is a very interesting, if at times a frustrating dialogue between people who have chosen different paths. But, it gets to the core of alot of what you are feeling now.
Wish I had more to offer...I have been thinking a lot about something I read on line on one of the non- 12 step sites, paraphrased: Why talk about, focus on, obsess with, worry about, etc... not drinking? It can be more simple and less agonizing...Why not just not drink? I would love to reach that point someday, where I am living a healthy, sober and exciting life, without spending every moment thinking and worrying about my sobriety.
Best Wishes to you.
Don't really have
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Originally Posted by Time4Me
I would love to reach that point someday, where I am living a healthy, sober and exciting life, without spending every moment thinking and worrying about my sobriety.
But we get there.
I promise.
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 15,203
I'm not doing a black mail on you. Try and see how your life goes w/o AA. I would advise going back to your old life style.
I'm lucky, I had friends in the program before I got in. The people that weren't my friends became my friends.
After 2 years, you can be helpful to the person coming into AA. Like it or not, the people giving you advice, just want to help.
Chris
I'm lucky, I had friends in the program before I got in. The people that weren't my friends became my friends.
After 2 years, you can be helpful to the person coming into AA. Like it or not, the people giving you advice, just want to help.
Chris
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 501
I know mate, dont worry. I do help though, I am just going through a sticky time.
Originally Posted by CAPTAINZING2000
I'm not doing a black mail on you. Try and see how your life goes w/o AA. I would advise going back to your old life style.
I'm lucky, I had friends in the program before I got in. The people that weren't my friends became my friends.
After 2 years, you can be helpful to the person coming into AA. Like it or not, the people giving you advice, just want to help.
Chris
I'm lucky, I had friends in the program before I got in. The people that weren't my friends became my friends.
After 2 years, you can be helpful to the person coming into AA. Like it or not, the people giving you advice, just want to help.
Chris
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Well....
I suggest you get busy and find something that interest you.
Go take college courses...learn to fly planes..change careers.
Those were my top 3 sober activities.
I still did and do follow AA principals. No problem.
Action is exciting.
Go take college courses...learn to fly planes..change careers.
Those were my top 3 sober activities.
I still did and do follow AA principals. No problem.
Action is exciting.
doing the inside job
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: planet happy
Posts: 542
Don't be so hard on yourself and lighten up a little.
Don't pick up no matter what.
Sometimes when we go thur a growth period,
Well...I can only speak for myself. I go NUTZ.lol
It's okay, I come out of it better and more free.
Sometimes it feels like me ass fell off. And sometimes
I feel like I'm going out of my freaken mind.lol..
Just to get to my heart.
Tha little old lady that told me to hang on to my ass becuase
recovery is a trip wasn't lying to me.lol
Most old timers laugh with me and not at me...(perceptions)
They have been there and done that, no judgements.
My stinking thinking always tries of course.
Sevice work taught me how to get out of myself.
I apply the principle and got out of myself and kind of
got a bird's eye view of what I was going thur.
saying like
"you're are excatly where you're suppost to be"
It's hard to accept sometimes, but it dose help once I accept it.
Reading and writing helps me a lot.
We grow thur pain sometimes.
Me....I'm sick. I like crises.lol
But it's still growth.
god bless
Don't pick up no matter what.
Sometimes when we go thur a growth period,
Well...I can only speak for myself. I go NUTZ.lol
It's okay, I come out of it better and more free.
Sometimes it feels like me ass fell off. And sometimes
I feel like I'm going out of my freaken mind.lol..
Just to get to my heart.
Tha little old lady that told me to hang on to my ass becuase
recovery is a trip wasn't lying to me.lol
Most old timers laugh with me and not at me...(perceptions)
They have been there and done that, no judgements.
My stinking thinking always tries of course.
Sevice work taught me how to get out of myself.
I apply the principle and got out of myself and kind of
got a bird's eye view of what I was going thur.
saying like
"you're are excatly where you're suppost to be"
It's hard to accept sometimes, but it dose help once I accept it.
Reading and writing helps me a lot.
We grow thur pain sometimes.
Me....I'm sick. I like crises.lol
But it's still growth.
god bless
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