What does "sobriety" mean?
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What does "sobriety" mean?
I know this sounds like a silly question, but what does sobriety really mean? Does it mean a person who does not drink at all...ever...? Or, does it simply mean a person who drinks occasionally, with healthy attitude, and doesn't use alcohol in an abusive manner?
I guess I have a problem with the thinking that a recovering alcoholic can never have a drink. I don't see that as being recovered. I still see that as the alcohol having control over you. To be truly recovered, IMHO, I think that you have to be able to control your drinking and have a healthy attitude about drinking.
I'm not putting down anyone who does not drink at all. I just have a different opinion about what is o.k. for me.
And, I know there are those out there who will say I'm in denial and so on.....I'm ready for you!
I'm just curious about what others in this forum believe.
Thanks
padmagg
I guess I have a problem with the thinking that a recovering alcoholic can never have a drink. I don't see that as being recovered. I still see that as the alcohol having control over you. To be truly recovered, IMHO, I think that you have to be able to control your drinking and have a healthy attitude about drinking.
I'm not putting down anyone who does not drink at all. I just have a different opinion about what is o.k. for me.
And, I know there are those out there who will say I'm in denial and so on.....I'm ready for you!
I'm just curious about what others in this forum believe.
Thanks
padmagg
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 710
Hi padmagg
What sobriety means to me is that I am alcohol and substitute free... physically, mentally and spiritually sober on a daily basis. Working, applying and practicing the 12 Steps in my own life... growing one day at a time in this program. When I practice this in my own life... I am able to achieve emotional sobriety.
Its a gift to have a daily reprieve from alcohol and drugs, and from the craziness of doing it MY WAY, contingent upon the maintanence of my spiritual condition.
I have never in my life had one or two drinks.... this is not where my disease brought me... alcohol brought me to my knees.... alcohol ran my thinking, my actions, and made all my decisions on a daily basis when I was out there. Alcohol told me where I was going, who I was going to be with, what I would be doing, what time I would coming home if at all... Alcohol called all the shots in my life.
And all I had to do to stay sober was not drink, get to AA meetings, sit and listen, identify and not compare, take the suggestions... and keep coming one day at a time. This is a simple program for complicated people.
I am so very grateful to the program of Alcoholics Anonymous...because I do not have to do that anymore
Today this program for me is about LIVING.
Yours in Recovery,
Patsy
[This message has been edited by Patsyd1 (edited January 31, 2002).]
What sobriety means to me is that I am alcohol and substitute free... physically, mentally and spiritually sober on a daily basis. Working, applying and practicing the 12 Steps in my own life... growing one day at a time in this program. When I practice this in my own life... I am able to achieve emotional sobriety.
Its a gift to have a daily reprieve from alcohol and drugs, and from the craziness of doing it MY WAY, contingent upon the maintanence of my spiritual condition.
I have never in my life had one or two drinks.... this is not where my disease brought me... alcohol brought me to my knees.... alcohol ran my thinking, my actions, and made all my decisions on a daily basis when I was out there. Alcohol told me where I was going, who I was going to be with, what I would be doing, what time I would coming home if at all... Alcohol called all the shots in my life.
And all I had to do to stay sober was not drink, get to AA meetings, sit and listen, identify and not compare, take the suggestions... and keep coming one day at a time. This is a simple program for complicated people.
I am so very grateful to the program of Alcoholics Anonymous...because I do not have to do that anymore
Today this program for me is about LIVING.
Yours in Recovery,
Patsy
[This message has been edited by Patsyd1 (edited January 31, 2002).]
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I see your point, Padmag, and I would like to say that I agree with you.
However, through my recent drinking habits, I've come to realize that I'm not yet able to have only a few drinks. I have a few more, and then a few more, until I can't remember what happened.
Right now I'm sober most of the week. It used to be 3-4 times a week that I would wake up feeling like that cat wouldn't even bring me in, but that has come down to once, a week, maybe twice a month. What happens is I keep testing myself to see if I can become this "responsible, controlled drinker". It always goes from the oh-just-one-maybe-two-glasses-of-wine to finishing the bottle and opening another, and my husband has to remind me of events that took place that night.
For the time being I realize that I have to stay away from drinking ALL TOGETHER, and although sober, I am an alcoholic. Perhaps down the line, (like years from now?) I can be what you say is a recovered alcoholic, and that I can have a few drinks and quit. But too many trials and hangovers have taught me that no way can I do that now!
However, through my recent drinking habits, I've come to realize that I'm not yet able to have only a few drinks. I have a few more, and then a few more, until I can't remember what happened.
Right now I'm sober most of the week. It used to be 3-4 times a week that I would wake up feeling like that cat wouldn't even bring me in, but that has come down to once, a week, maybe twice a month. What happens is I keep testing myself to see if I can become this "responsible, controlled drinker". It always goes from the oh-just-one-maybe-two-glasses-of-wine to finishing the bottle and opening another, and my husband has to remind me of events that took place that night.
For the time being I realize that I have to stay away from drinking ALL TOGETHER, and although sober, I am an alcoholic. Perhaps down the line, (like years from now?) I can be what you say is a recovered alcoholic, and that I can have a few drinks and quit. But too many trials and hangovers have taught me that no way can I do that now!
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 59
I pray you're seeking a legitimate response and that your post is not a underlieing motive to begin a debate of sorts. IMHO that would be inappropriate. With that said:
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TERMS "DRUNKARD" AND "ALCOHOLIC."
According to the Bible, drunkenness is a moral condition. On the other hand, alcoholism is a therapeutic condition. What separates the alcoholic from the non-alcoholic is not how often they drink or how much they drink, but what happens when they do drink - the loss of control - (or powerlessness). Once an individual becomes addicted, he can never be a social drinker.
In your second paragraph you refer to "recovering", and "recovered". Those are two words that many of us in recovery seldom use in the same sentence. I have been sober and free of all chemicals since 1989..However, I do not consider myself "recovered" I consider myself rather, a Redeemed recovering addict. I am recovered only in the sense of these 24 hours..If the Lord gives me another day, the journey continues...
There is no doubt that each individual has to work this out for themselves..
I personaly have experienced enough relapses that resulted in severe personal crisis. When I drink, I am out of control..I have learned with much pain not only to myself, but to those whom I loved with all my heart, that "one is too many, and a thousand never enough.
Again, this is only my experience. I submit this for the purpose of sharing, not debate.
[This message has been edited by RovenRev (edited February 01, 2002).]
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TERMS "DRUNKARD" AND "ALCOHOLIC."
According to the Bible, drunkenness is a moral condition. On the other hand, alcoholism is a therapeutic condition. What separates the alcoholic from the non-alcoholic is not how often they drink or how much they drink, but what happens when they do drink - the loss of control - (or powerlessness). Once an individual becomes addicted, he can never be a social drinker.
In your second paragraph you refer to "recovering", and "recovered". Those are two words that many of us in recovery seldom use in the same sentence. I have been sober and free of all chemicals since 1989..However, I do not consider myself "recovered" I consider myself rather, a Redeemed recovering addict. I am recovered only in the sense of these 24 hours..If the Lord gives me another day, the journey continues...
There is no doubt that each individual has to work this out for themselves..
I personaly have experienced enough relapses that resulted in severe personal crisis. When I drink, I am out of control..I have learned with much pain not only to myself, but to those whom I loved with all my heart, that "one is too many, and a thousand never enough.
Again, this is only my experience. I submit this for the purpose of sharing, not debate.
[This message has been edited by RovenRev (edited February 01, 2002).]
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Thanks for your replies. I in no way intend to start a debate, RovenRev. I'm new to this arena and recovery, and just looking for opinions, thoughts, beliefs...what's out there. Also still trying to figure out exactly what I believe. I understand the difference between "recovering" and "recovered"...just my ignorance in using the terms together in the same sentence.
Thanks to muffinabadmood in particular, for understanding my point of view, and telling me what is right for you at this point. Reading your story has made me think about what I need right now too, and that probably is that I need to choose not to have that "first" drink at this point in my life. I'm optimistic for the future though...perhaps several years away from now....that I *can* have a drink or two with my husband, friends, family, etc. and be o.k. with it.
I'm still open to hearing others' thoughts on what it means to them to be sober, or recovered.
have a great weekend everyone.
padmagg
Thanks to muffinabadmood in particular, for understanding my point of view, and telling me what is right for you at this point. Reading your story has made me think about what I need right now too, and that probably is that I need to choose not to have that "first" drink at this point in my life. I'm optimistic for the future though...perhaps several years away from now....that I *can* have a drink or two with my husband, friends, family, etc. and be o.k. with it.
I'm still open to hearing others' thoughts on what it means to them to be sober, or recovered.
have a great weekend everyone.
padmagg
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 79
Hi Pad,
In treatment, we learned that not having any drinks or drugs is known as "abstinence." However, "sobriety" is abstinence along with a program of personal recovery - meetings, working with a sponsor, practicing the Twelve Steps in our daily lives. As alcoholics, we must come to learn and accept that our drinking is the physical manifestation of many emotional and spiritual symptoms - lying, cheating, remorse, guilt, isolation, secretiveness, denial - and the situations those symptoms create - disfunction in our daily lives, financial irresponsibility, problems creating and maintaining relationships, marital problems, and problems with the law, our employers, and our families. Alcoholism is so much more than the inability to control our drinking. And we must come to terms with that fact if we want to "recover."
Personally, I doubt that you will ever be able to enjoy one or two drinks responsibly with your husband - even years from now. Because the true aspect of alcoholism - the deterioration of physical, mental, emotional and spiritual health - remains active even if we remain sober. I am living testament to this. For while I have periods of sobriety, some lasting up to 18 months, I have found that my relapses have led me further down the spiral to hell than I was when I first got into recovery 5 years ago. Now is the first time I am accepting this truth. I, like you, had tried (in my relapses) to limit my drinking to weekends, to having just one or two, to switching poisons (from wine to beer). And all of these are TRICKS that the alcoholic uses to convince him/herself that he/she is not an alcoholic. None of those tricks work - you don't have to prove it to yourself, I have done it for you!
So good luck, and keep reading here. And search within yourself for an answer to the question you originally asked. God always gives us the answer - we just have to open up our hearts and listen.
In treatment, we learned that not having any drinks or drugs is known as "abstinence." However, "sobriety" is abstinence along with a program of personal recovery - meetings, working with a sponsor, practicing the Twelve Steps in our daily lives. As alcoholics, we must come to learn and accept that our drinking is the physical manifestation of many emotional and spiritual symptoms - lying, cheating, remorse, guilt, isolation, secretiveness, denial - and the situations those symptoms create - disfunction in our daily lives, financial irresponsibility, problems creating and maintaining relationships, marital problems, and problems with the law, our employers, and our families. Alcoholism is so much more than the inability to control our drinking. And we must come to terms with that fact if we want to "recover."
Personally, I doubt that you will ever be able to enjoy one or two drinks responsibly with your husband - even years from now. Because the true aspect of alcoholism - the deterioration of physical, mental, emotional and spiritual health - remains active even if we remain sober. I am living testament to this. For while I have periods of sobriety, some lasting up to 18 months, I have found that my relapses have led me further down the spiral to hell than I was when I first got into recovery 5 years ago. Now is the first time I am accepting this truth. I, like you, had tried (in my relapses) to limit my drinking to weekends, to having just one or two, to switching poisons (from wine to beer). And all of these are TRICKS that the alcoholic uses to convince him/herself that he/she is not an alcoholic. None of those tricks work - you don't have to prove it to yourself, I have done it for you!
So good luck, and keep reading here. And search within yourself for an answer to the question you originally asked. God always gives us the answer - we just have to open up our hearts and listen.
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Thanks Sylvrymoon.
I began realizing a long time ago that my drinking is a manifestation of emotional problems. In another thread I mentioned that I had bulimia ~20 years ago, and the urge to drink is often very similar to the obsession/addiction to eating and purging. I've concluded that whatever emotional pain I was going through at that time has either never healed, or has returned. I've had many periods in my life in which i haven't drunk much, and have felt perfectly content, at least as my memory recalls now.
You've given me a lot to think about. I especially liked the information on how your brain chemistry changes. I've heard this several times, but wasn't sure how. Your explanation finally hit home to me...that chemicals in my brain have changed to make the urge to drink unbearable at times. I guess that's part of the physical addiction.
Thanks again.
I feel better already today.
Padma
I began realizing a long time ago that my drinking is a manifestation of emotional problems. In another thread I mentioned that I had bulimia ~20 years ago, and the urge to drink is often very similar to the obsession/addiction to eating and purging. I've concluded that whatever emotional pain I was going through at that time has either never healed, or has returned. I've had many periods in my life in which i haven't drunk much, and have felt perfectly content, at least as my memory recalls now.
You've given me a lot to think about. I especially liked the information on how your brain chemistry changes. I've heard this several times, but wasn't sure how. Your explanation finally hit home to me...that chemicals in my brain have changed to make the urge to drink unbearable at times. I guess that's part of the physical addiction.
Thanks again.
I feel better already today.
Padma
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Hi Patsy, after reading your message I had to write to you.
Shorty, I will have achieved 48 hours without a drink. Going through withdrawal as I type this note.
Have been in and out of the program over the years, the longest "dry drunk" I ever achieved was 3 1/2 years.
I intend on getting to a meeting tonight, and hopefully everyday and or night to follow.
Shorty, I will have achieved 48 hours without a drink. Going through withdrawal as I type this note.
Have been in and out of the program over the years, the longest "dry drunk" I ever achieved was 3 1/2 years.
I intend on getting to a meeting tonight, and hopefully everyday and or night to follow.
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Charleston S.C.
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Hi padmagg, I have found that even when I didn't drink I didn't always have sobriety. I felt sobriety when I changed my behavior.
With my own experience I found that it dosen't seem to matter what or how much I drink I change. I have only been back for a few days but, I have been trying not drink and change. If I continue lying, etc. I feel guilty and, then bad, then I drink. Sanglefive's thought for the day is a good example for me. When I drink , even just a little, I have a difficult time encorporating any of it in my life. Today, sobriety meant not having to feel guility for having to lie about where I've been, what I did, and not having to buy a box of breath mints on way home.Don w
With my own experience I found that it dosen't seem to matter what or how much I drink I change. I have only been back for a few days but, I have been trying not drink and change. If I continue lying, etc. I feel guilty and, then bad, then I drink. Sanglefive's thought for the day is a good example for me. When I drink , even just a little, I have a difficult time encorporating any of it in my life. Today, sobriety meant not having to feel guility for having to lie about where I've been, what I did, and not having to buy a box of breath mints on way home.Don w
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Hello guys/gals i am an alcoholic.I have been for around 7 years,im 28 at present and other problems initially led to my booze probs.Now drink is my main problem.I dont know if any of you fine people have visited a great site which was called sober voices,it no longer exists.I see they are trying to get back online,i hope they do as this site was something of a blessing to me as i was able to speak to many fellows with similar problems of the booze variety.Drink is a harsh taskmaster and he seeks your total devotion.If any of you are old sober voice veterans please let me know,i need this sit to return.
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