relapse o.k.?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Twin Falls, ID. USA
Posts: 24
relapse o.k.?
Hi everyone,
I'm so grateful to be sober today. I had really bad cravings all day and I just knew a pint would fix me right up. I didn't drink though! At a noon meeting I was told by a guy thaat drinking is a choice and I can choose not to drink. That made me feel like I have power over my disease but I know I don't have any power over my disease. i'm getting confused but i did not drink and that is what counts.
The reason i posted this topic is because i understand that relapses are expected and are not a reason to beat yourself up and everything but i feel like hearing all that makes it easy for me to drink again. In fact as i'm writing this im thinking i can still make it over to the liquor store before it closes. would it be my fault if i drink? I'm really confused and i feel a little nuts. help?
jim
I'm so grateful to be sober today. I had really bad cravings all day and I just knew a pint would fix me right up. I didn't drink though! At a noon meeting I was told by a guy thaat drinking is a choice and I can choose not to drink. That made me feel like I have power over my disease but I know I don't have any power over my disease. i'm getting confused but i did not drink and that is what counts.
The reason i posted this topic is because i understand that relapses are expected and are not a reason to beat yourself up and everything but i feel like hearing all that makes it easy for me to drink again. In fact as i'm writing this im thinking i can still make it over to the liquor store before it closes. would it be my fault if i drink? I'm really confused and i feel a little nuts. help?
jim
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: That's what I'd like to know.
Posts: 2,416
Hi Jimmy!
Yes, of course it's your responsibility if you drink. As to powerlessness and choice, let me do an analogy for you.
Say you're a kid, and there's this other kid on your block who's a lot bigger than you. At first you thought he was a lot of fun (he was so unprincipled and free) but it turned out he was quite a bully. He knocked you down the stairs, ripped up your social studies paper and stretched out your slinky while you stood helplessly by. Because he was meaner, and bigger than you, you were powerless over the destruction he wrought. BUT, you CAN choose not to play with him any more.
Does that help?
Yes, of course it's your responsibility if you drink. As to powerlessness and choice, let me do an analogy for you.
Say you're a kid, and there's this other kid on your block who's a lot bigger than you. At first you thought he was a lot of fun (he was so unprincipled and free) but it turned out he was quite a bully. He knocked you down the stairs, ripped up your social studies paper and stretched out your slinky while you stood helplessly by. Because he was meaner, and bigger than you, you were powerless over the destruction he wrought. BUT, you CAN choose not to play with him any more.
Does that help?
Paused
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 34
Hey Jimmyk,
The guy in your meeting was right, you do have a choice.......today.......and with everyday that you don't pick up you gain more power over alcohol (or whatever your DOC). Check out the 1st Step again; it's all in past tense....we WERE powerless, and our live HAD BECOME unmanageable....
Although relapses (slips, or whatever cutesy li'll 'politically correct' terms you want to use) do happen, and if one has one, that person is always welcomed back (if they make it back), these occurances should NEVER be expected. When I came thru the doors of these programs, it was pointed out to me that I need NEVER use again; all I had to do was work the program (the steps), and so far that has been true.....
No matter what, don't pick up.....it works if you work it, cause you're worth it..
In Recovery,
Noelle
The guy in your meeting was right, you do have a choice.......today.......and with everyday that you don't pick up you gain more power over alcohol (or whatever your DOC). Check out the 1st Step again; it's all in past tense....we WERE powerless, and our live HAD BECOME unmanageable....
Although relapses (slips, or whatever cutesy li'll 'politically correct' terms you want to use) do happen, and if one has one, that person is always welcomed back (if they make it back), these occurances should NEVER be expected. When I came thru the doors of these programs, it was pointed out to me that I need NEVER use again; all I had to do was work the program (the steps), and so far that has been true.....
No matter what, don't pick up.....it works if you work it, cause you're worth it..
In Recovery,
Noelle
Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pasadena, CA United States
Posts: 18
I know I have a choice to drink. It may seem like I just "get drunk" but even then there is some conscious decision. Many times it was "screw it I'm gonna drink!".
I don't understand why you say you know you are powerless over the urges to drink. Maybe you are just used to giving in? I know that is what happened to me. I had no practice at all in self-control with booze. I don't mean controlled drinking.
You mentioned in other posts about success with resisting urges. That seems like evidence that you do have a choice and control over whether you drink or not.
Loco
I don't understand why you say you know you are powerless over the urges to drink. Maybe you are just used to giving in? I know that is what happened to me. I had no practice at all in self-control with booze. I don't mean controlled drinking.
You mentioned in other posts about success with resisting urges. That seems like evidence that you do have a choice and control over whether you drink or not.
Loco
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Twin Falls, ID. USA
Posts: 24
Hi Loco,
Step 1 tells me to accept the fact that I'm powerless over alcohol. That's where I get the idea! I've seen your other posts and I think you're here to distract us from the only proven recovery program which is AA. Different strokes for different folks. I'm not supposed to say what I think of other programs so I won't. Good luck to you.
grateful,
jimmyk
Step 1 tells me to accept the fact that I'm powerless over alcohol. That's where I get the idea! I've seen your other posts and I think you're here to distract us from the only proven recovery program which is AA. Different strokes for different folks. I'm not supposed to say what I think of other programs so I won't. Good luck to you.
grateful,
jimmyk
Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pasadena, CA United States
Posts: 18
If you want to respond to my posts by bashing other recovery methods then that's your agenda Jimmy. If AA has proven to be 100% effective for you then my hat's off to you. AA by itself was 100% inneffective for me. I have found a lot of other sources inspiring and insightful. A lot of things I heard from other AA members over a ten year peiod made sense and stay with me.
You can also interpret Step One any way you like. Keep in mind that the Big Book was written after just a few years by a small number of people who wanted to share what helped them to recover. In fact, they specifically say that they were RECOVERED.
While I think parts of the Big Book were brilliantly written, it hardly contains the absolute truths about alcoholism. Again, it was simply a way of a small number of people to express what they had success with.
I found the idea that I was powerless over my urges to drink to be quite harmful. I've learned from others a different perspective that makes a lot more sense to me.
Chris
You can also interpret Step One any way you like. Keep in mind that the Big Book was written after just a few years by a small number of people who wanted to share what helped them to recover. In fact, they specifically say that they were RECOVERED.
While I think parts of the Big Book were brilliantly written, it hardly contains the absolute truths about alcoholism. Again, it was simply a way of a small number of people to express what they had success with.
I found the idea that I was powerless over my urges to drink to be quite harmful. I've learned from others a different perspective that makes a lot more sense to me.
Chris
Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 6
Hi Jimmy-
I wish to talk about your assertion that AA is the only proven method to defeat addiction. That's not true! AA's grapevine even admits in one of it's past issues that about 60% of addicted people quit on thier own, without AA. A Harvard medical study puts the self-recovered at about 70%.
There are always different ways to look at things.
Relapses are a nice way to say you made an error against your better judgement and got drunk! Yes, I am an RR advocate. I was at least as addicted to alcohol as any person I have ever met, yet today I am a normal person who never drinks, ever! To me this is far better than the one-day-at-a-time procrastination and disease thinking.
Education on how to achieve permanent abstinence is available, for free at RR.
If you choose this method, you will not get much encouragement from the 12-step community...if all the drunks and junkies got better and went home the CD couselors would have to get new jobs!
You always have a choice to drink/use. RR teaches you how to separate the voices in "The Committee" and remain in control at all times.
Worked for me for quite a while...I'm not sure exactly how many years...if I were to count time since my last drink, it would only be counting the days of the remainder of my life.
Thx,
Jim
I wish to talk about your assertion that AA is the only proven method to defeat addiction. That's not true! AA's grapevine even admits in one of it's past issues that about 60% of addicted people quit on thier own, without AA. A Harvard medical study puts the self-recovered at about 70%.
There are always different ways to look at things.
Relapses are a nice way to say you made an error against your better judgement and got drunk! Yes, I am an RR advocate. I was at least as addicted to alcohol as any person I have ever met, yet today I am a normal person who never drinks, ever! To me this is far better than the one-day-at-a-time procrastination and disease thinking.
Education on how to achieve permanent abstinence is available, for free at RR.
If you choose this method, you will not get much encouragement from the 12-step community...if all the drunks and junkies got better and went home the CD couselors would have to get new jobs!
You always have a choice to drink/use. RR teaches you how to separate the voices in "The Committee" and remain in control at all times.
Worked for me for quite a while...I'm not sure exactly how many years...if I were to count time since my last drink, it would only be counting the days of the remainder of my life.
Thx,
Jim
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hey Quitter- Whatever works for you fine, but you obviously know Nothing of the big book or what aa is really about."be in control at all times" MY control got me in the trouble i was in;My way doesnt work i needed humility and get my head out of my own ass.I could share as many success stories about aa as you can share failurs,i'm sure,but bashing it however subtle,seems a little out of line especially to the people who truly love and respect this program. i used to blame all kinds of things too as for the reason i drank...a message for Bob R-is this ridiculous debate over programs going to be stopped? its really NOT what sobriety is all about-no matter what program you use. Denise
Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 6
Hey!
Why so defensive about criticism of a "Program"? Do programs have feelings?
I think everyone deserves to know what they are getting themselves into!
Doesn't AA claim to be the ONLY way, and predict death, "relapses" and jails for those who are constitutionally incapable of believing that those steps have anything to do with abstaining?
I know of many such "unfortunates" who have gone on to have rich, self determined lives. They don't make God into a bedpan, a doorknob, a group of people who cannot say that they will not drink tomorrow.
Plus, I have NEVER heard a person recommend that someone who doesn't "get RR" go out and drink again to hit bottom. To tell a person who has obviously been harmed by alcohol to continue drinking endangers their lives & others...just to prove a point that AA must be "The One True Way"
By the way, I spent five years in AA, read the Big book, 12 & 12, plus all kinds of AA literature. My addictive comittee in my mind was glad to hear that I was a disease victim, not just self-indulgent. It loves the idea that I am prohibited from ever quitting for good, and the idea that thinking of drinking means you are at risk, as if I have no will to resist temptation!
People deserve to hear different options about recovery!
Quitter
Why so defensive about criticism of a "Program"? Do programs have feelings?
I think everyone deserves to know what they are getting themselves into!
Doesn't AA claim to be the ONLY way, and predict death, "relapses" and jails for those who are constitutionally incapable of believing that those steps have anything to do with abstaining?
I know of many such "unfortunates" who have gone on to have rich, self determined lives. They don't make God into a bedpan, a doorknob, a group of people who cannot say that they will not drink tomorrow.
Plus, I have NEVER heard a person recommend that someone who doesn't "get RR" go out and drink again to hit bottom. To tell a person who has obviously been harmed by alcohol to continue drinking endangers their lives & others...just to prove a point that AA must be "The One True Way"
By the way, I spent five years in AA, read the Big book, 12 & 12, plus all kinds of AA literature. My addictive comittee in my mind was glad to hear that I was a disease victim, not just self-indulgent. It loves the idea that I am prohibited from ever quitting for good, and the idea that thinking of drinking means you are at risk, as if I have no will to resist temptation!
People deserve to hear different options about recovery!
Quitter
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Posts: n/a
I've looked into both sides of the fence so to speak, AA, NA, RR, and have heard from people in RR who said that it did not work for them, and people in AA, who said it did not work for them.
I think personal committment over semantics of programs can make a difference. No one program or procedure is perfect for everyone under every circumstance.
If AA or RR were "perfect" programs, they would be working for everyone. They are both made up of human beings who are frequently imperfect, and fallible. RR people like to defend their program as well. It's only natural to stand up for what you believe is working, and has worked for you.
I think personal committment over semantics of programs can make a difference. No one program or procedure is perfect for everyone under every circumstance.
If AA or RR were "perfect" programs, they would be working for everyone. They are both made up of human beings who are frequently imperfect, and fallible. RR people like to defend their program as well. It's only natural to stand up for what you believe is working, and has worked for you.
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 25
Relapse is NEVER OK. Yes they happen but AA does not encourage anyone to have a relapse. That's nonsense. AA is all about staying away from that first drink. That's the only drink I have to ever worry about.
Jerry
Ps. to all the RR people, please stay on topic and stop promoting your program at every opportunity. It's getting very irritating.
Jerry
Ps. to all the RR people, please stay on topic and stop promoting your program at every opportunity. It's getting very irritating.
Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pasadena, CA United States
Posts: 18
Jerry, there are some cool methods begun by a man named Albert Ellis. The premise is that no one can make you irritated. Instead, your beliefs about the event (i.e., someone posting about RR) cause your own feeling, i.e., irritation.
Check out more at www.rebt.org
Locoverde
Check out more at www.rebt.org
Locoverde
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