Q & A
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Join Date: Apr 2002
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Q & A
Perhaps this should be in the General Discussion but I would like to ask any one with some sobriety to jump in and give a personal view point on some questions for discussion and dialogue.
The first question could fall into the category of "which comes first, the chicken or the egg?"
Do you feel that a committment to sobriety brought about a spiritual change in your lives or did a spiritual change bring about your committment to sobriety?
Does anyone either in AA or not, see any difference between someone with a drinking problem and/or a full blown "alcoholic?" If some people quit on their own before the problem gets too out of hand would you consider them not to be alcoholic in the full sense of the word. Are there degrees of alcoholism?
This is a survey...just kidding. LOL but I am trying to write a paper on different recovery concepts.
[This message has been edited by nico (edited May 09, 2002).]
The first question could fall into the category of "which comes first, the chicken or the egg?"
Do you feel that a committment to sobriety brought about a spiritual change in your lives or did a spiritual change bring about your committment to sobriety?
Does anyone either in AA or not, see any difference between someone with a drinking problem and/or a full blown "alcoholic?" If some people quit on their own before the problem gets too out of hand would you consider them not to be alcoholic in the full sense of the word. Are there degrees of alcoholism?
This is a survey...just kidding. LOL but I am trying to write a paper on different recovery concepts.
[This message has been edited by nico (edited May 09, 2002).]
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To answer one of those questions, in my opinion, there ARE degrees of alcoholism, kind of like there are degrees of cancer and burns.
For example, I have never had the urge to drink in the mornings. The thought made me physically sick. I have also never had detox problems, like withdrawl symptoms. I didn't drink every day of the week anyway, perhaps 4 times a week, 2 of those days I would have a couple of beers, the other 2 I would start with a couple of beers and go on and on. The other 3 days of the week I would be nursing a hangover and have absolutely no desire to drink.
When I hear about how some people drink every day and all day, wake up and drink, have a hard time detoxing, etc, I feel that the way I used alcohol is very different, and yes, a different "degree". Having said that, I don't think it makes me less of an alcoholic in the sense of the word. I abused alcohol just like any other alcoholic.
For example, I have never had the urge to drink in the mornings. The thought made me physically sick. I have also never had detox problems, like withdrawl symptoms. I didn't drink every day of the week anyway, perhaps 4 times a week, 2 of those days I would have a couple of beers, the other 2 I would start with a couple of beers and go on and on. The other 3 days of the week I would be nursing a hangover and have absolutely no desire to drink.
When I hear about how some people drink every day and all day, wake up and drink, have a hard time detoxing, etc, I feel that the way I used alcohol is very different, and yes, a different "degree". Having said that, I don't think it makes me less of an alcoholic in the sense of the word. I abused alcohol just like any other alcoholic.
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Location: Houston, Tx
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And now for my two-cents worth.....
Let's take these questions in order.....first, for my anyway, my committment to recovery brought about my spiritual change in your lives; the first step told me the problem (I'm powerless over alcohol when I put it in my body and my life was made unmanageable thru this); the second step told me the solution (I came to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity---the not picking up that first drink, or drug), and the rest of the steps enabled me to find that Higher Power to solve my problem.
And now for the fun one......sure there's a difference between someone who may have a drinking problem at the time, and someone who is an alcoholic.....and sorry, IMHO, there are NO degrees of alcoholics; you either are or you are not.....check out the Big Book, it exlains it pretty plainly....but one easy way is an alcoholic can't have just one, once that first one goes down......that's it.
Keep the questions comin.....this is fun..
In Recovery,
Noelle
DOS: 6/23/86
Let's take these questions in order.....first, for my anyway, my committment to recovery brought about my spiritual change in your lives; the first step told me the problem (I'm powerless over alcohol when I put it in my body and my life was made unmanageable thru this); the second step told me the solution (I came to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity---the not picking up that first drink, or drug), and the rest of the steps enabled me to find that Higher Power to solve my problem.
And now for the fun one......sure there's a difference between someone who may have a drinking problem at the time, and someone who is an alcoholic.....and sorry, IMHO, there are NO degrees of alcoholics; you either are or you are not.....check out the Big Book, it exlains it pretty plainly....but one easy way is an alcoholic can't have just one, once that first one goes down......that's it.
Keep the questions comin.....this is fun..
In Recovery,
Noelle
DOS: 6/23/86
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Twin Falls, ID. USA
Posts: 24
i don't think their are degrees because i've always gotten way to drunk whenever I drink. why would knowing about degrees help anything anyway? would you just have to work a few of the steps to get better?
maybe the only degree of alcoholism should be a degree in alcohol usage! that could get me a masters degree!!!
peace out,
jim (sober and proud for 3 days thanks to AA!)
maybe the only degree of alcoholism should be a degree in alcohol usage! that could get me a masters degree!!!
peace out,
jim (sober and proud for 3 days thanks to AA!)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 23
The word "degrees" was perhaps ill chosen. I think in AA the explanation may be that everyone has a different "bottom." Someone may get into trouble once or twice and decide that it's getting out of hand and he/she needs to quit while others run the gamut of hospitals, detox, jails, loss of jobs and family etc. I still wonder why some allow themselves to go the full route and others (possibly a minority?) are able to quit earlier. I know most will say it's the nature of the disease but I wonder how much social and economic influences play a part or "if" they play a part, ie: family backgrounds, values, experiences and upbringing etc as to how much a person is willing to lose.
[This message has been edited by nico (edited May 10, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by nico (edited May 10, 2002).]
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I think Noelle said it best Nico, read the Big Book. Its explanations of alcoholics and problem drinkers are better said than what I could do.
The Doctors Opinion at the back of the book may help you understand why we call this a disease.
Jerry
recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.
DOS 10/27/92
The Doctors Opinion at the back of the book may help you understand why we call this a disease.
Jerry
recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.
DOS 10/27/92
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I still think there ARE degrees. I don't think the "big book" is the bottom line for all our questions. If we allow a single book to answer all our questions, we would be in a lot of trouble. It would discourage us from using our own judgement and thought analysis... only my personal opinion, so don't jump on me 
!
For example: if an alcoholic can't have JUST ONE drink, then that means I'm suddenly not and alcoholic anymore! That's news to me!! I could have just one, or even just two, and call it quits at times. I've also never been to the hospital, or caused physical harm on anyone else. I have never lost my job or damaged a relationship. I have never experienced withdrawl from alcohol. I have, however, had regular blackouts, become depressed, called in sick to appointments, hidden my alcohol usage, done things I regretted, etc. I am definitely an alcoholic.
Maybe it's time someone reviewed some things in the "big book"
[This message has been edited by muffininabadmood (edited May 10, 2002).]
! For example: if an alcoholic can't have JUST ONE drink, then that means I'm suddenly not and alcoholic anymore! That's news to me!! I could have just one, or even just two, and call it quits at times. I've also never been to the hospital, or caused physical harm on anyone else. I have never lost my job or damaged a relationship. I have never experienced withdrawl from alcohol. I have, however, had regular blackouts, become depressed, called in sick to appointments, hidden my alcohol usage, done things I regretted, etc. I am definitely an alcoholic.
Maybe it's time someone reviewed some things in the "big book"
[This message has been edited by muffininabadmood (edited May 10, 2002).]
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Muffin,
I too was like that. I often stopped at one or two but once in awhile I would really cut loose and behave stupidly. However, it was a prescription drug addiction that got me in the end with depression, and lethargy etc as a result. I made a committment to take no mind altering substances ever again and have never looked back, so to speak. My life, my energy level, interest level and spiritual level are so much improved from that time of my life and yet I don't freak if there is liqueur in a dessert or the few times I've partaken of the communion bread dipped in the wine at certain special church services. It has not triggered any craving in me.I have a feeling that some would say that I was not truly addicted but I beg to differ. I know I had a problem and now I am recovered. I've moved beyond the place of "once an addict, always an addict' and have "chosen" abstinence ( and no meetings) as a lifestyle and I don't count days or years, though it has been several.
This will be my last post on this forum - if it's not deleted. I actually thought that on the alcoholism board it was permissible to discuss any recovery but I stepped on a few toes doing it. I said the wrong thing on the Christian recovery board too, even though God is central to my life also.
Many people feel that AA works for them but there is other recovery out there as well, for other people. Let's try, to be open minded.
[This message has been edited by nico (edited May 10, 2002).]
I too was like that. I often stopped at one or two but once in awhile I would really cut loose and behave stupidly. However, it was a prescription drug addiction that got me in the end with depression, and lethargy etc as a result. I made a committment to take no mind altering substances ever again and have never looked back, so to speak. My life, my energy level, interest level and spiritual level are so much improved from that time of my life and yet I don't freak if there is liqueur in a dessert or the few times I've partaken of the communion bread dipped in the wine at certain special church services. It has not triggered any craving in me.I have a feeling that some would say that I was not truly addicted but I beg to differ. I know I had a problem and now I am recovered. I've moved beyond the place of "once an addict, always an addict' and have "chosen" abstinence ( and no meetings) as a lifestyle and I don't count days or years, though it has been several.
This will be my last post on this forum - if it's not deleted. I actually thought that on the alcoholism board it was permissible to discuss any recovery but I stepped on a few toes doing it. I said the wrong thing on the Christian recovery board too, even though God is central to my life also.
Many people feel that AA works for them but there is other recovery out there as well, for other people. Let's try, to be open minded.
[This message has been edited by nico (edited May 10, 2002).]
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Nico,
No need to feel that you should not reply,
I've read most of your posts lately and find them with the theme of the board.
I to used to be able to drink some and then quit. It seems lately when I start I drink until I cant remember coming home. Recently
I must have fell and hurt my right arm, but have no memory. This has scared me into not drinking but its only been a couple of weeks
sober. I have visited this board and have found comfort that I'm not alone. Your believes just let me know that there are many roads to sobriety. As of today visiting this board a couple times a day help keeps me focused on the task at hand,
that is stop drinking. I told my friends this and they have left me alone, or at least not tempted me as of yet. Anyhow keep
posting and make people think and question
if there realy only one road to sobriety.
as of now this board and my daily prayer for sobriety is my only program so any idea
to me is good Peace
No need to feel that you should not reply,
I've read most of your posts lately and find them with the theme of the board.
I to used to be able to drink some and then quit. It seems lately when I start I drink until I cant remember coming home. Recently
I must have fell and hurt my right arm, but have no memory. This has scared me into not drinking but its only been a couple of weeks
sober. I have visited this board and have found comfort that I'm not alone. Your believes just let me know that there are many roads to sobriety. As of today visiting this board a couple times a day help keeps me focused on the task at hand,
that is stop drinking. I told my friends this and they have left me alone, or at least not tempted me as of yet. Anyhow keep
posting and make people think and question
if there realy only one road to sobriety.
as of now this board and my daily prayer for sobriety is my only program so any idea
to me is good Peace
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OK Muffin: What book other than the Big Book would you suggest we read to get a better understanding of the alcoholic and prolem drinker. Nico, you to, what are your suggestions on books to read. If you can't supply an answer then I suggest you read what is already out there. Read it and study it(the big book)
Jerry
Jerry
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NICO:
This is the final word: as long as you bounce from forum to forum looking to create controversy I will pay close attention to your posts. I have received too many complaints to do otherwise. You clearly have an agenda that does not seem suited to the users of this board; perhaps another site may be a more constructive use of your time. You mention in nearly all of your posts that you are either about to get censored or booted, so you know that what you are saying goes against the consistent grain of this site.
Soberrecovery.com is intended for people that want help with some form of addiction.If I read or infer from any new posts that you enter that a 12-step program is not the best solution, or some other form of medically approved and recognized treatment is inappropriate, given your lack of a doctorate, you'll get the boot.
Had you taken the advice and read the Big Book or The Basic Text of NA you would already know that alcohol is merely a symptom. Marijuana is merely a symptom. Cocaine is merely a symptom. All, and others, are a symptom for a much deeper ailment. Bottom is bottom. Bottom is not relative. Ask yourself this, "How far down in a swimming pool do you need to go before you drown?"
Less than an inch, or all the way to the bottom if you hold your breath. That's the answer. Dead is dead. Bottom is bottom.
And for the person that suggested that listening to just one book is never the solution, it has worked for Christians, Jews, Catholics, Muslims, Buddists and many other faiths. They call it the Bible, the Quran, etc. Choose what works for you.
For the others that I read from: no, it is not okay to smoke dope. Either you want recovery or you don't. If you wish to go through life numb, so be it. If you want to truly live, embrace recovery -- whatever recovery means to you. You know, my wife and I were sharing this and other threads tonight and she offered the following suggestion: for anyone that thinks that they can think their way into recovery, think again. She did 4.5 years as a dry-drunk before attending her first meeting and it nearly killed her. Adopt some kind of program, not the personal program that nearly killed you and brought you here.
Now the actual final word: knock of all of the RR crap. Either participate with an open mind or not at all. Stop challenging everything that you read re:12-step. You need not have friends register just to jump in and share with your opinion, either. It has amazed me how several of our newest members seem to immediately agree with what you are peddling. Whether you know them or not, you are dangerous if they are in a fragile place. Your words could contribute to their demise. No more. My tolerance is decreasing and I have 4 kids!!! plus a wife and three cats, 4 computers, and many other things to irritate me, including clients that think that a website can jam their printer
No more. Play nice, or find another sandbox. This applies to anyone else that it applies to.
This is the final word: as long as you bounce from forum to forum looking to create controversy I will pay close attention to your posts. I have received too many complaints to do otherwise. You clearly have an agenda that does not seem suited to the users of this board; perhaps another site may be a more constructive use of your time. You mention in nearly all of your posts that you are either about to get censored or booted, so you know that what you are saying goes against the consistent grain of this site.
Soberrecovery.com is intended for people that want help with some form of addiction.If I read or infer from any new posts that you enter that a 12-step program is not the best solution, or some other form of medically approved and recognized treatment is inappropriate, given your lack of a doctorate, you'll get the boot.
Had you taken the advice and read the Big Book or The Basic Text of NA you would already know that alcohol is merely a symptom. Marijuana is merely a symptom. Cocaine is merely a symptom. All, and others, are a symptom for a much deeper ailment. Bottom is bottom. Bottom is not relative. Ask yourself this, "How far down in a swimming pool do you need to go before you drown?"
Less than an inch, or all the way to the bottom if you hold your breath. That's the answer. Dead is dead. Bottom is bottom.
And for the person that suggested that listening to just one book is never the solution, it has worked for Christians, Jews, Catholics, Muslims, Buddists and many other faiths. They call it the Bible, the Quran, etc. Choose what works for you.
For the others that I read from: no, it is not okay to smoke dope. Either you want recovery or you don't. If you wish to go through life numb, so be it. If you want to truly live, embrace recovery -- whatever recovery means to you. You know, my wife and I were sharing this and other threads tonight and she offered the following suggestion: for anyone that thinks that they can think their way into recovery, think again. She did 4.5 years as a dry-drunk before attending her first meeting and it nearly killed her. Adopt some kind of program, not the personal program that nearly killed you and brought you here.
Now the actual final word: knock of all of the RR crap. Either participate with an open mind or not at all. Stop challenging everything that you read re:12-step. You need not have friends register just to jump in and share with your opinion, either. It has amazed me how several of our newest members seem to immediately agree with what you are peddling. Whether you know them or not, you are dangerous if they are in a fragile place. Your words could contribute to their demise. No more. My tolerance is decreasing and I have 4 kids!!! plus a wife and three cats, 4 computers, and many other things to irritate me, including clients that think that a website can jam their printer
No more. Play nice, or find another sandbox. This applies to anyone else that it applies to.
Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Twin Falls, ID. USA
Posts: 24
Thanks Bob. I really like the way you told nico to get lost. She doesn't give a damn about anybody with all that talk about quitting and stuff. It just can't be that easy for us real alkies. We need each other to rely on! I've been sober for 5 days and I can only quit for one minute at a time with the help of AA. Its a great life and I think nico is just mad cause she isn't popular at meetings or something. Next thing you know she'll be making up stories about guys in AA coming on to her or something. Like that would ever happen!! Thanks for getting rid of her so we can help each other get better.
jimmyk
jimmyk
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Twin Falls, ID. USA
Posts: 24
Hi everyone(exscept nico)!
This is the 6th day I've been sober and I owe it all to AA and the people on this board. I couldn't have just stopped drinking all by myself! That's impossible and anybody that says it is is selling something! What in the hell is RR anyway? Could you please tell me what those people want and why they want people to hate AA? it's crazy!!!
-grateful jimmyk
This is the 6th day I've been sober and I owe it all to AA and the people on this board. I couldn't have just stopped drinking all by myself! That's impossible and anybody that says it is is selling something! What in the hell is RR anyway? Could you please tell me what those people want and why they want people to hate AA? it's crazy!!!
-grateful jimmyk
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Originally posted by nico:
Perhaps this should be in the General Discussion but I would like to ask any one with some sobriety to jump in and give a personal view point on some questions for discussion and dialogue.
The first question could fall into the category of "which comes first, the chicken or the egg?"
Do you feel that a committment to sobriety brought about a spiritual change in your lives or did a spiritual change bring about your committment to sobriety?
Does anyone either in AA or not, see any difference between someone with a drinking problem and/or a full blown "alcoholic?" If some people quit on their own before the problem gets too out of hand would you consider them not to be alcoholic in the full sense of the word. Are there degrees of alcoholism?
This is a survey...just kidding. LOL but I am trying to write a paper on different recovery concepts.
[This message has been edited by nico (edited May 09, 2002).]
Perhaps this should be in the General Discussion but I would like to ask any one with some sobriety to jump in and give a personal view point on some questions for discussion and dialogue.
The first question could fall into the category of "which comes first, the chicken or the egg?"
Do you feel that a committment to sobriety brought about a spiritual change in your lives or did a spiritual change bring about your committment to sobriety?
Does anyone either in AA or not, see any difference between someone with a drinking problem and/or a full blown "alcoholic?" If some people quit on their own before the problem gets too out of hand would you consider them not to be alcoholic in the full sense of the word. Are there degrees of alcoholism?
This is a survey...just kidding. LOL but I am trying to write a paper on different recovery concepts.
[This message has been edited by nico (edited May 09, 2002).]
After I had stopped drinking for about 3 months and had started going regularly to meetings I lost some of the anger and began taking a hard look at myself. Grudgingly I admitted that I was an alcoholic and at the very least AA wasn't going to hurt me. It might even help. Truth is I was hoping it would help me, but was terribly abraid of failing.
Being a periodic drinker, I could quit for a week, a month or longer without to much trouble. But I always began drinking again. Nothing else to do, or I copped a resentment, or it was Tuesday and time to drink.
So back to your question, cause I'm rambling, Did God zap me and give me the gift of sobriety or did I give myself that gift and then find God?
I think,can't prove it you understand, that God as I don't unerstand him gave me the gift of sobriety. He also gave me a window of opportunity to get and stay sober, to read the big book, as much as I could, and to attend meetings where I would here the message of AA. But I have free will and I had to make a decision to pick up the tools of AA and participate in my own recovery.
Did I answer your original question Nico? Jerry
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Twin Falls, ID. USA
Posts: 24
hi jerry,
didn't you read bob's post above? nico is one of those rr nuts! he just wants to mess us up and cause newcomers to drink. he's sick and you shouldn't be talking to him! bob already answered his question really good. i have 6 days now and the last thing i need is too be told i can stop drinking on my own. what a crock! just ask anybody in AA.
rr is stupid.
grateful for my sobriety,
jimmyk
didn't you read bob's post above? nico is one of those rr nuts! he just wants to mess us up and cause newcomers to drink. he's sick and you shouldn't be talking to him! bob already answered his question really good. i have 6 days now and the last thing i need is too be told i can stop drinking on my own. what a crock! just ask anybody in AA.
rr is stupid.
grateful for my sobriety,
jimmyk
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Jimmy,
Congratulations on SIX DAYS!!! That is a huge deal. It truly is. The first 21 days are the toughest, until your body accepts that you aren't putting all of that sugar and chemical stuff in. You'll likely shake, want to cry for no reason at all, be irritable -- go for it! Check in here as often as you would like. Go to meetings and ask people for their phone number. They will not likely offer it without you taking the action of extending your hand for help.
Let's be clear, dear Friends. I take no offense to RR, ACLU, PTA, or any group or belief that will help you get and STAY sober. I do have issues with those that preach that their way is the only way. I take issue with those that would rather punch holes in something that has worked for millions of people. The simple statement made that ANYONE can get clean and sober if they just had willpower is absurd and medical evidence bears this out.
Let us all strive to avoid these types of postings. They do more harm than help. If you can get and staty sober through prayer alone, which many have done!, good for you. If RR does the trick. Hey, great! But if you are a sick individual that has fried his/her brain already, no amount of willpower exists to work from.
Nico sent me an e-mail indicating that she was only here to test whether or not AA was open to outside ideas. She claimed that a professor in college encouraged her to publicly challenge those that seek help through a 12-step program. She is no longer with us and has been asked not to return. In the course of attending thousands of meetings I have encountered people entering a medical or psych field that required them to audit a few meetings - not to disrupt. When asked to share,all told the truth about why they were there and were welcomed as long as it wasn't a closed meeting.
They should be welcomed here, as well. One day they may be helping you. So let's help them learn what this disease is really all about, not necessarily what a text books tells them.
"Take what you can use - leave the rest behind."
[This message has been edited by Bob Ricci (edited May 13, 2002).]
Congratulations on SIX DAYS!!! That is a huge deal. It truly is. The first 21 days are the toughest, until your body accepts that you aren't putting all of that sugar and chemical stuff in. You'll likely shake, want to cry for no reason at all, be irritable -- go for it! Check in here as often as you would like. Go to meetings and ask people for their phone number. They will not likely offer it without you taking the action of extending your hand for help.
Let's be clear, dear Friends. I take no offense to RR, ACLU, PTA, or any group or belief that will help you get and STAY sober. I do have issues with those that preach that their way is the only way. I take issue with those that would rather punch holes in something that has worked for millions of people. The simple statement made that ANYONE can get clean and sober if they just had willpower is absurd and medical evidence bears this out.
Let us all strive to avoid these types of postings. They do more harm than help. If you can get and staty sober through prayer alone, which many have done!, good for you. If RR does the trick. Hey, great! But if you are a sick individual that has fried his/her brain already, no amount of willpower exists to work from.
Nico sent me an e-mail indicating that she was only here to test whether or not AA was open to outside ideas. She claimed that a professor in college encouraged her to publicly challenge those that seek help through a 12-step program. She is no longer with us and has been asked not to return. In the course of attending thousands of meetings I have encountered people entering a medical or psych field that required them to audit a few meetings - not to disrupt. When asked to share,all told the truth about why they were there and were welcomed as long as it wasn't a closed meeting.
They should be welcomed here, as well. One day they may be helping you. So let's help them learn what this disease is really all about, not necessarily what a text books tells them.
"Take what you can use - leave the rest behind."
[This message has been edited by Bob Ricci (edited May 13, 2002).]
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Posts: 24
Bob, i think you are one of the smartest people I've ever met. Thanks for getting rid of that nico character! you really showed him how wrong it is to post here if you're motivs are screwed. probably was one of those bleeding heart commie profs putting him up to it anyway. they don't realize that peoples lives are at stake and ideas that distract us from the program can kill us. i don't understand why you say whatever works is great? AA is the only way because like you said "alcohol is but a sypmtom" and AA is the only way to recover!
you rock Bob!
grateful for today,
jimmyk
you rock Bob!
grateful for today,
jimmyk
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 34
OK,
I'm gonna risk gettin my hand slapped, but Jimmy, I realize you only have a short time, but one of the things we learn, with time, is tolerance......and there ARE a lot of ways that get and keep ppl sober, not oly AA; AA is not for everybody.
To write as torid replies as you did against RR, or any other method, or any other person, no matter how much you may disagree, well it just lowers you to their standard; makes you equal, so to speak.....sit back, chill out, and enjoy the ride.....this is a long strange trip we're on.....
In Recovery,
Noelle
I'm gonna risk gettin my hand slapped, but Jimmy, I realize you only have a short time, but one of the things we learn, with time, is tolerance......and there ARE a lot of ways that get and keep ppl sober, not oly AA; AA is not for everybody.
To write as torid replies as you did against RR, or any other method, or any other person, no matter how much you may disagree, well it just lowers you to their standard; makes you equal, so to speak.....sit back, chill out, and enjoy the ride.....this is a long strange trip we're on.....
In Recovery,
Noelle
Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Twin Falls, ID. USA
Posts: 24
thanks noelle,
i guess i'm just so new i don't understand alotof this stuff. why is it wrong to say what i think about these other ideas that get people killed and stuff? at meetings i haven't been told to look anywhere else for sobriety. i don't think there is anywhere else except AA! people who quit without help never were alkies or they couldn't have quit. thats just common sense!
-grateful jimmyk
i guess i'm just so new i don't understand alotof this stuff. why is it wrong to say what i think about these other ideas that get people killed and stuff? at meetings i haven't been told to look anywhere else for sobriety. i don't think there is anywhere else except AA! people who quit without help never were alkies or they couldn't have quit. thats just common sense!
-grateful jimmyk
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Location: Houston, Tx
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Hey JimmyK,
You wrote, ".... why is it wrong to say what i think about these other ideas that get people killed and stuff?...i don't think there is anywhere else except AA! people who quit without help never were alkies or they couldn't have quit. thats just common sense!
..." many folks get and stay sober, and lead happy, contented, productive lives....both with and without AA; there are even those who believe as you do, except they believe AA has gotten people killed, and I have known some who just couldn't get it, and believed that killing themselves was the better alternative..... ):
I realize that you're speaking from opinions, but there are facts out there, and it's not up to me to decide if someone was or wasn't an alcoholic, just because they got and stayed sober through a means with which I do not understand and/or agree...and actually, my common sense tells me that my opinion is not the last voice.....and with time I hope you will learn this. Just remember, until you have checked out any and all other methods, studied them.....it's called 'contempt prior to investigation' ... also....remember this is a program that works HOW? thru Honesty, Openmindedness, and Willingness......and lots and lots of patience and tolerance...
In Recovery,
Noelle
DOS: 6/23/86
You wrote, ".... why is it wrong to say what i think about these other ideas that get people killed and stuff?...i don't think there is anywhere else except AA! people who quit without help never were alkies or they couldn't have quit. thats just common sense!
..." many folks get and stay sober, and lead happy, contented, productive lives....both with and without AA; there are even those who believe as you do, except they believe AA has gotten people killed, and I have known some who just couldn't get it, and believed that killing themselves was the better alternative..... ):
I realize that you're speaking from opinions, but there are facts out there, and it's not up to me to decide if someone was or wasn't an alcoholic, just because they got and stayed sober through a means with which I do not understand and/or agree...and actually, my common sense tells me that my opinion is not the last voice.....and with time I hope you will learn this. Just remember, until you have checked out any and all other methods, studied them.....it's called 'contempt prior to investigation' ... also....remember this is a program that works HOW? thru Honesty, Openmindedness, and Willingness......and lots and lots of patience and tolerance...
In Recovery,
Noelle
DOS: 6/23/86
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