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Religion is just making things harder for me

Old 01-20-2005, 10:43 AM
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Religion is just making things harder for me

Can someone please help me?...

I thought that having a stronger spiritual life would help me to not want to drink anymore. But there is a problem.

I keep repeating myself the line from the Bruce Springsteen song, "It ain't no sin to be glad that you're alive." You see, my family of origin was so insane and chaotic that I almost feel like that when I'm enjoying life, enjoying my family, enjoying my work, I'm doing something wrong! Silly stuff, but it's very real for me.

Now comes this @#$% Bible study I'm involved in. It's telling me that I need to live a "crucified life," that when I surrender my own life, the Holy Spirit will live in my heart. Yeah, this is all I need to hear right now--that I need to (figuratively) die.

There is some homework involved in this study, which I have stopped doing. But holy moley people, I am looking for a support system and am failing to find it! As I've posted before, I have some misgivings about returning to AA. This particular spiritual journey is just making me feel worse.

I hope I'm not becoming one of those people who keeps talking about wanting to stop drinking, but keeps failing. There are Smart Recovery groups nearby, so I guess that should be my next step.

Encouragement anyone? I love my husband and my kids more than anything/anyone on the planet, and I want to WANT TO stop this destructive behavior. Once again, here I am crying again.
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Old 01-20-2005, 01:03 PM
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Please do not confuse Spirituality with Religion.

Spirituality as AA teaches it encouragaes us to find inner peace by recognizing A Higher Power of our own understanding.

Religion asks us to accept a specific set of rules and practices.

If Bible Study is disturbing your serenity you need to step back for a little.

Religion evolved for one purpose only: so that man could try to explain the world in which he lived and to find inner peace.

If you are not at peace with your God or with your religion then you are in the wrong business.

One religion cannot serve the 5 billion people on our planet.

If you are uncomfortable with AA try Smart.

You can cry as much as you want just remember to dry your eyes when you are done and then do something about the problem.
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Old 01-20-2005, 01:05 PM
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Hi Wild,
When I came to AA, I was of the mind that I didn't want to be "told" what to believe in. AA gave me the "choice" to decided what to believe in. Today I don't believe in "God" but I believe there is a Higher Power greater than I am and greater than anything is. That's all!! I just believe. The difference is I don't believe I'm the higher power any more. I used to believe that I had all the answers. I've said this before and this is the only thing that keeps me believeing in something greater than MAN. Billions of other people believe in something greater than MAN. Am I "right" in believeing they're all "wrong?" I don't think so. Saying they're all wrong is again, believeing that I'm right. I have to stop now 'cause I'm starting to confuse myself... So, I'll just say this. I believe because a whole bunch of others believe. I let them believe the way they choose, and I believe the way I choose. I've been sober a long time just keeping it that simple. There just has to be something out there greater than anything I can come up with. All this just didn't happen by accident. Besides, I'd rather get to the pearly gates and find out I was right, than get there and find out I was wrong.... :tongue3:
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Old 01-20-2005, 01:11 PM
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Can't top what Peter and Music said! Do what works for you!
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Old 01-20-2005, 01:18 PM
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What Chy said.Im glad your here at SR.Hang in there.
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Old 01-20-2005, 01:19 PM
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oki doki
I go to church to save soul.
I go to AA to save my ASS.

I'm not a church going person bercuase I like he program
of suggestions better.lol

JC was a great spritual teacher.
The freanken riidles.lol
He tried to explain these principles to differnent charactors.lol

The dude said GOD belongs to everybody not just the chruch
or religion.

JC said "BE OF GOOD CHEER BECUASE I"VE OVERCAME THE WORLD"
What freanken world ? the world or illusions that I made.lol
You know... The one that's always out of control even when you
try to control it. You know... we train and try to control the dog too.

Follow your Heart and not your head.
Sometimes "I go out of my freaken mind" .lol

Death of old ideas or our old way of living, life stlye or habits that's all
Hell....that old crap was a living hell wasn't it.?

I surrender my selfwill run riot .lol
You know the dis-ease !!
Be kind to your enemy...I'm my own worst enemy.lol

THE KINDOM of HEAVEN IS AT HAND, THE TIME IS NOW
REPENT,REPENT....LMAO
I think it's ONEDAY AT A TIME or a daily reprieve
you know, you heard it eoungh times
"one foot in yesterday and one foot in tommorrow and pissing all over today.

When you think about...isn't every waking moments you have
is always right now.
This moment is all that we'll ever have
right here right now means everthing.
Focus

You know that void and empty feeling you have ?
That one you tried to feel with food ,drugs,alcohol, people,
places and things.
Even Mrs. Right didn't quit feel that void, So sometimes some of us
try to fill it with Mrs right now.lol
Sometimes we get desperate and do crazy things or destructive behaviors.
The viod is still there but now we have wreckage and consequences.

Thur my experienments ,reserch, and developement .lol
Nothing of this world can ever fill that.
AA told I had a choice...F-it , I choose a loving GOD
that loves me unconditionally no matter what.
Who said I could.. GOD did !!


F-it is the short form serenity preyer.lol
Priciple before personallity
I don't get on my knees and pray holy mother of god in the heat of the
battle , aurgument,or mis understanding.lol
F-it....That I can do. it gets me to the same place
I drop the situation and choose peace.
It de fuses the drama if you know what I mean.
I can't change others but I can change myself.

if it all gets too complicated.
None of us are getting out of this life alive.lol
lighten up.
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Old 01-20-2005, 02:15 PM
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Everyone, this is a really crappy day for me, but you are helping me to work through it. Holy moley, can I get to a 6 AM (or maybe 7 AM, I will need to check) meeting tomorrow? They had BETTER have coffee at that hour, haha!

Thanks for the very simple suggestion to lighten up. I am trying, believe me I am, but I am so f*cking ashamed of myself and how bad I have gotten. So I had six years' sobriety...none of that matters now. I'm worse than I ever was before, and now I have a family. At least back then, the only person affected by my actions was myself.

As of right now, I have four hours without drinking. I guess that is a start, isn't it? One minute at a time is the best I can do right now.

(((HUGS)))
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Old 01-20-2005, 02:36 PM
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I had 11 years
I have 120 days today
So there you go...my experience strength and hope.
You got the 5-6 years crazy didn't ya ?
I still have my 5 years token. Damn..I earn that som B**th.
Them old farts weren 't lying..holy schmoly.
Just wait till you get your marbles back at 11. LMAO

Nobody gave me a hard time. When I walk back thur them doors.
Just me, myself and I. Damn,..... it's hard being an alki. Everywhere I go
that crazy dude (me) is right there.lol

Keep coming back no matter what
Welcome back BTW
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Old 01-20-2005, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wild1forever
Thanks for the very simple suggestion to lighten up.
Definition of a suggestion: A subtle command. So do it.

Originally Posted by wild1forever
I am trying, believe me I am, but I am so f*cking ashamed of myself and how bad I have gotten. So I had six years' sobriety...none of that matters now.
What do you mean you "had" six years sobriety? Where did it go. You still have it. Hopefully there's just a short break in your recovery. Stop kicking yourself in the butt. You just ain't that good at being that bad.

Originally Posted by wild1forever
I'm worse than I ever was before, and now I have a family. At least back then, the only person affected by my actions was myself.
The oldtimers I listen to always said, "it'll only get worse! Never better!" I'm glad I listened. An alcoholic affects every person they come in contact with. You just happened to be the one doing all the puking.

Originally Posted by wild1forever
As of right now, I have four hours without drinking. I guess that is a start, isn't it? One minute at a time is the best I can do right now.(((HUGS)))
If one minute at a time is the best you can do, then that's the best you can do. Nobody can expect any more. You just have to make sure it's the best you can do. Make some calls and keep some AAs up all night if you have to. You'll be doing them a favor, not to mention you'll be staying sober. Tie a knot and hang on. Don't drink even if your ass falls off. :shysmile:
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Old 01-20-2005, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Music
Don't drink even if your ass falls off. :shysmile:
What Music said
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Old 01-20-2005, 05:27 PM
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Honey, your going to get plenty of bad coffee there! Hang tough!
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Old 01-20-2005, 07:26 PM
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Music, you really made me think AND laugh at the same time. I cannot overestimate how much your post helped me out this evening!

I am happy to report that I spoke with some wonderful, wonderful friends this afternoon. Thanks to them and thanks to you all, I have stopped beating myself up, for the time being anyway.

It sure feels great to not be drunk.
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Old 01-20-2005, 09:34 PM
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Hi Wild,

One more suggestion as far as this whole "God thing". Try reading chapter 4 in the Big Book, "We Agnostics". Whole lotta good reading there!!!

Congrats on making it through the day!!!
Love and prayers,
Jen
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Old 01-21-2005, 12:50 AM
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If religion is an obstacle to your sobriety, avoid it. If your bible study group is an obstacle to your sobriety, avoid it. If your current recovery program is too focused on religion, try one of the others. Secular approaches to sobriety were founded for precisely this kind of ambivalence.

I don't want to debate theology with you (well, that's not true; I'd be delighted to debate theology with you if you'd find that useful). But it sounds to me as though the religious beliefs you are struggling with are at the moment an obstacle to coming to some new, very important beliefs about alcohol.

Having a stronger spiritual life might, indeed, make sobriety easier to achieve and sustain. But please be aware that it is possible to come to sobriety without dealing with spiritual or religious issues in any way. Plenty of people have done it. Personally, I am concerned when people link their sobriety to their spiritual beliefs, their spiritual growth or awakening, or their religious devotion. Because those beliefs may change, and that can lead to the kind of distress you are feeling right now. People who are confident in their spiritual beliefs will probably find them helpful to sobriety. People who are still asking questions may find their spiritual inquiries to be harmful to their sobriety.

I'd rather see you make a firm bedrock belief system that alcohol is not part of your life, does nothing for you, does lots of unhealthy things to you, and that drinking is behavior that you're just not going to do anymore.

Then you can debate the logic of believing something because everyone else does, split hairs about agnosticism, learn who the heck the Gnosts were anyway, and find a way to make your spiritual life a help, not a hindrance, to your long term sobriety.

Don S
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Old 01-21-2005, 03:39 AM
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Hi Wild1

I think you raise genuine issues. Unfortunately, if your newly sober, you may find it hard to stand up to the overwhelming consensus in AA that claims you must have some form of spirituality etc.

The AA steps are derived from religious principles and practices. Does taking the makers badge off a car fundamentally change the car? No, it's the same car, but with the identifying badge taken off. Spirituality as defined in the 12 steps is in a religious/supernatural sense, as distinct from just meaning human emotion. I know many fine people in AA who have altered the definition of what is 'spiritual' to suit themselves. And rightly so.

Fortunately there is a get-out clause in AA. It's the tradition that says the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. Even without that tradition, noone has any rights in AA to tell you what you ought to believe.

You can go to smart recovery and AA if you want to. You can believe in God or not as it makes sense to you. I personally go to AA, but follow cognitive methods of getting well. I am 22 years sober and appreciate the pressure some well meaning, but wilful members may apply to you.

I am not 'over a barrel' where alcohol is concerned and thereby forced to believe in God. Admitting that I need human help and guidance and that I am not God does not in itself prove the existence of God or the need to hand my will over to it.

If I ever decide to believe in a more personal/supernatural God it will be because I have chosen to, not because I feel I have no choice. It is unlikeley to have anything to do with my need to stop drinking.

Best wishes

Andy F
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Old 01-21-2005, 03:48 AM
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Wild1,just take it one day at a time and keep coming back. Michael
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Old 01-21-2005, 04:11 PM
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Hi all--

Good news and bad news.

Good news is that I did go to an AA meeting today. (Not the 6:00 AM meeting, but I did make it to the noon meeting.)

Bad news is that I heard almost nothing I could relate to. (I haven't been hospitalized for 15 suicide attempts. I haven't lost a marriage. Granted, these things could happen in the future, but I'm trying to find a support system for where I am today, and these people aren't it. Although I greatly appreciated their honesty.)

Good news is that I got a phone number.

Good news is that I haven't given up.
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Old 01-21-2005, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by nutz
oki doki
I go to church to save soul.
I go to AA to save my ASS.
Looks like a plan.

I read and do bible study for many reasons.
AA, the steps, the sugestions for life... I find them in both AA and the bible.
You can continue and take what you want and need at the time from the bible study. You can go to AA meetings and take what you want or need from there as well.
For me... the bible studies gave me the same understanding and growth that the steps can and do give. I also grew in my understanding of what the bible says at the same time as well.
Don't reject the message because you may be up against a poor messanger.
Read the bible for yourself and ask God to guide your understanding. I find that when I ask, I get.
Again the above quote sounds like a good plan all the same.
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Old 01-21-2005, 04:55 PM
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Hi Wild1

I have to apologise. I thought you were going to bible study as extra curricular to AA meetings.

regards

Andy F
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Old 01-21-2005, 05:52 PM
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I don't mind going to church.
My minister be a friend of BW helps.
The message gets explains to me so that I can comprehend it.
What I can't understand, I'm told not to worry about it.
When I'm ready , it'll come.

even JC made things more simple.lol
He basically just say
oki doki then....
LOVE GOD & LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

I imagine if we practice these two things, the rest of the stuff
would pretty much take care of itself.
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