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Old 04-23-2022, 12:16 PM
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You're most welcome, Grymt. Thanks for saying so.

Our friend fini suggested in a different context that it may not be possible to resolve some things. I've been chewing on that for a few days, wondering how that aligns with amendments (or amends, as they are called in the vernacular of the Big Book.) I'd like to say more about that, but I'm not quite sure where that thought is headed yet...
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Old 04-23-2022, 09:11 PM
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oh yes, for sure your relationships with your kids are totally different from ‘authority and subordinate’. of course!

i do make assumptions. despite not wanting to, i assume that awuh made amends the way the BB describes them. so when i mentioned the process that got him there, it is in reference to the eight previous steps. which lay the groundwork, really.
so it’s not something to jump into unprepared, or wirhout knowing just what it is that we actually did, the harm we caused.
in my own case, i didn’t get to AA until years into my sobriety, and the amends i had to make were made by the book, basically.
but the ones with my kids were not, since those conversations happened much earlier, long before i ever went to AA. i just knew i needed to take responsibility for what i could see at the time, and i asked others on my old forum for advice. the best advice i got was from a staunch AA long-sober guy, who laid out the amends process for me in ‘ordinary language’, spoke to me from his own experience, gave me general guidelines about what to talk about and what not to talk about, how to listen to what came in response, where to make restitution.
all this in terms that made sense to me without me ever knowing that he basically laid out step nine for me in a way doable for me at that time.
always grateful for what he passed on to me.
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Old 04-24-2022, 04:53 AM
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fini, yes, I assumed that you assumed that awuh followed the guidance of the BB when making amends. I did, too.

I've scoured the first 164 pages, looking for mention of the children and amends, but don't really find the kids aside from in "The Family Afterward." This is one of my least-favorite chapters; it strikes me as very self-centered and very traditionally masculine. Considering the source and his time, I understand... but it does leave the reader without much to go on with regard to the children. I think the true, deep remorse I felt after 'coming to' during this last hospitalization was a bittersweet gift. That deeper understanding will undoubtedly help when I am able to have those conversations with my girls.
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Old 04-24-2022, 08:29 PM
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no need for special mention of children.
they are entirely included in “persons we had harmed”.
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Old 04-25-2022, 04:42 AM
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fini, of course the children are "persons harmed." But while the book outlines how to approach (at minimum) my employer and my wife (if I were to have one), it does not single out children in this way. Bill's relationships were very different than mine.

I'm back to work today, so started out with writing 'the list' last night. It has the usual things I've talked about before, but some of them are now choices. "Read or meeting," "Write or work on a puzzle," for instance. If I do all of it, great. If I have a checkmark next to each list item, that will be fine as well.

Daniel Tiger and I are meeting later this afternoon. I'm 90% certain I'll request a referral to someone who has a history that's similar to mine. I'm pretty sure (now) that the reason I gravitate toward male counselors is because I fear the censure, correction, and superiority of females from my formative years. Mom, the nuns, the girls in my class... I think finding a female I can trust is probably the best next move in therapy.
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Old 04-25-2022, 03:01 PM
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Glad you're here Obladi, get right back on the bike and ride. No more falling off this time please

You've done it before, you'll do it again. We know you can and will.
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Old 04-25-2022, 07:02 PM
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How did your day go?
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Old 04-25-2022, 07:19 PM
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That therapist idea has a real good ‘feel’ to it .

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Old 04-26-2022, 02:48 AM
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I wonder re the therapist needing to have a similar background. I can see the logic, but mine does not and is perfect for me.
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Old 04-26-2022, 05:30 AM
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Yesterday went quite well, all things considered. I met with my manager first thing to debrief, and the only reference she made to my absence was to say that she'd been keeping up with the FMLA and short-term disability correspondence and everything was on track. This was after I asked her to please reverse the regular pay I'd received for a day in the middle of that week I was home drinking. (I'd clocked in, but don't think I did a lick of work.) Working a full 8 hours after being out for a month is challenging, but I knew that, so just gave myself a few 'keep going' affirmations when I started to lag around 1:30pm. I checked off everything on my wellness whiteboard, getting double points for doing both parts of the "read or meeting" item.

Met with Daniel Tiger at the end of the workday. Although he had the opportunity more than once, he didn't acknowledge in any way that he missed some signals that I was going 'off.' I don't know how I feel about that. And yes, of course I know that Daniel didn't bring me alcohol or pour it down my throat. I also know that I was not honest with him. For these things, I take full responsibility. We're going to continue to work together until I locate a new person with his help. Writing that last sentence, I realize I could (probably should) look independently as well.

As far as the future therapist/counselor having a similar background, I was swayed by Alice Miller's advice that this should be the case. I think working with the right woman is a great idea, though it does intimidate me (or maybe because it intimidates me). I think it would be helpful if she could personally relate to at least one of the facets of my current and past struggles. Internally, I don't want her to have a history of being sexually abused, and I know that's a big 'tell.'

It's good to hear from each and every one of you. Thank you so much for caring.
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Old 04-27-2022, 02:39 AM
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I'm in the process of trying to pull out of a smoking relapse I fell into a week ago after five months clean. I remembered you and your 800 to 9. I have learned how to be a non smoker. I still have the $3000 I saved. My last smoke was before I went to the dentist yesterday. The hygienist said the bleeding in my gums went from 36% to 11%. She scraped the stains off my teeth and assured me I had not undone all my hard work. I know, given a choice, I so very much prefer to be free. I just have to ride out the cravings and let my receptors shut down and I can have what I want, which is to be free.
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Old 04-27-2022, 04:15 AM
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Oh I'm glad to know that was helpful to you, silentrun. You are a non-smoker who had a temporary relapse. You know what to do and how to survive the cravings. It just stinks to have to go through that again, I know. But I'd bet that it won't be quite as difficult this time. You've got non-smoker muscles.

Once I learned how to identify my feelings, it became much easier find the underlying (immediate) cause for relapse. But I realize there's more to it, even if I can reliably pin it on a discrete event. I told Daniel Tiger about the "shhhh, you're ok" note I'd written to myself in the month or so preceding this last relapse. We agreed it might be a good idea to go on a dig to see if we can trace the gradual descent that led to that final breaking point. I've never been able to do that, but I'm willing to give it a try.
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Old 04-28-2022, 06:02 AM
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I started looking for a new therapist on my own and gave up after looking at just one profile. There's got to be a better way. How am I to deduce if a person might be a good fit based on black print on a white page? The nice person who called to check up on me the other day suggested that I request 15 minute consults with potential candidates. That's a good idea, but it still requires sifting through these profiles.

Gotta buckle up and just do the thing. Because I'm not sure Daniel is going to be able to come up with someone who is in-network for me, and I realize now that's another of my criteria.

Every medical person who has checked up on me (4 people, I think) over the course of the last two weeks has asked about cravings. It surprises me every time because the thought of drinking alcohol is just as foreign as it was to me a couple of hours before I took that first drink. "Cravings" don't seem to be a thing with me. If I get to cravings, it's highly unlikely that anyone is going to be in time with their inquiry.

Even if I did experience cravings over some duration of time, I don't know how that question would be helpful. Because really, it goes so much deeper for me than having a taste for alcohol. Shoot, I don't even like the taste - it's the obliteration that attracted me.

When it comes down to it, I know myself better than anyone else does. I guess I was hoping that some other person such as a certified thought/feelings expert was going to help me discover my true self. That was naive, maybe, but it's really what I thought. Now I know that it's my job to help those certified-smart people to know me or at least know what I need.
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Old 04-28-2022, 07:26 AM
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Well, you did (do) have a craving. To escape. (Obliteration.)

The trick to all this is to create a life with coping tools so obliteration or escape isn't necessary.
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Old 04-28-2022, 08:23 AM
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Absolutely correct, bim. I just don't understand/identify with craving alcohol in and of itself. It seems that some people do have that...
I guess I'm fortunate that I don't associate drinking with things like yard work, socializing or life events.

But then again, those 'people, places and things' we're warned about are 'me, here, and my feelings.'
Whether that's fortunate or not is open for debate.
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Old 04-30-2022, 03:12 AM
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I've never been hospitalised due to drink, but I've come pretty close and I'm amazed I haven't.
I guess sometimes we can kid ourselves that it isn't as bad as it is, but ultimately, we're all playing chicken with death one way or another. When we drink, we're just playing a game to see how close to the edge we can get before we fall off for good. Whether that takes months or years, or hours and days, on repeat, the outcome will probably be the same. Dramatic analogy perhaps, but it's true. I'm tired of that game.
Best of luck to you and all of us!




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Old 05-01-2022, 07:39 AM
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You're right, Mysteryman. I've often thought with horror about the risk of doing street drugs - the very next bump or hit might be that person's last depending on what's actually in the stuff. But that's not much different than me picking up a drinkanymore. Sure, the death is likely to be longer in the making, but it's really the same risk for me as it is for a dope addict. Isn't it?

Drops, I think the 'highest' form of procrastinating is when one doesn't even know they're doing it, don't you think? I was very busy yesterday, and part of that was rearranging the downstairs. Again! It wasn't until I was at the end of the day that I realized I need to get back on the hunt for a therapist. "I don't wannaaaaaa," she whined. So I'm sitting at my desk, all official-like, steeling myself for the search. It feels so much like on-line dating, reading these profiles. I know the "no-gos" for sure, but the maybes are more difficult to evaluate.

I've only missed one check-mark on my daily list since implementing it on Monday. Forgot to eat breakfast one day. For a moment, I seriously considered eating breakfast at 2pm, just so I could check it off. But that would have pushed dinner out to past my bedtime, so I let it go. The meeting this morning was a real snooze. So it goes sometimes. I don't know about anyone else, but I think some meetings turn into group therapy without the benefit of interaction. Not exactly my cuppa, though it probably used to be.

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Old 05-01-2022, 05:30 PM
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I am not sure if we have any other country music fans out there, but I am so sad about the death of Naomi Judd. She seemed so off during her last performance at the CMT awards, I hope someone saw it. I fear it was the pressure of the induction into the Hall of Fame and the new tour, and that it is not a cross that Wynona will have to bear.
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Old 05-02-2022, 03:11 PM
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Dropsie, I didn't know until you posted your message. It sounds like a very sad story, for sure. I don't keep up with celebrities, but if I understand correctly, Wynona attributed her mom's death to mental illness. It's true - some of us need to take that stuff very seriously.

I found a couple of good candidates for therapy. Called my #1 pick today and got past the screener, so I think I'll be able to talk with the actual person sometime this week. Good for me, eh!

Rearranged my bedroom last night.
Gonna go put it back the way it was, for the most part.
But the tv is staying out of there cuz that's what's good for me.


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Old 05-05-2022, 08:01 PM
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Hi my friend O
just wanted to stop in and say hey. Im sorry for the all the stuff. And Im proud of you for getting back here where you can rebuild. 💕
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