For those tortured by PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms) and who fear they might go mad Part 4
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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Originally Posted by LazaB 
Yes i read about kindling , but i also read this on this page a post by @adair
" I have been sober for 98% of the days. Though I have yet to get a continuous year under my belt, my drinking is but a pale shadow of what it used to be and those compounding sober days do slowly but surely nip away at all the symptoms PAWS likes to throw our way. "
I know i need to stop completely but i was interested in how much does a slip up set you back , because many people here posted about it at different times.
" I have been sober for 98% of the days. Though I have yet to get a continuous year under my belt, my drinking is but a pale shadow of what it used to be and those compounding sober days do slowly but surely nip away at all the symptoms PAWS likes to throw our way. "
I know i need to stop completely but i was interested in how much does a slip up set you back , because many people here posted about it at different times.
"Well, okay, it's okay if you shoot me in the leg..."
I mean, that's basically how it is when you negotiate with alcohol. "I guess it's okay that I'm making myself sick, it's just a little sick. Not like it was..."
At some point it's one drink too many and there are permanent consequences. Adair can't answer that for you. If you're still trying to figure out how much and how often you can drink and still keep healing from PAWS - this isn't the forum for that.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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@LazaB Adair also said (I bolded the part after what you quoted...)
Originally Posted by adair
Loss of a loved one is a challenging obstacle for anyone to navigate, let alone those of us with substance issues.
My mother passed in early June and I dipped my toes back into the bottle on five separate occasions over a three week period while dealing with that. There was simply no way I, being who I am, was not going to drink after such a momentous loss. Though I was fully mindful of the damage it causes, alcohol allowed me to wallow unashamedly in my grief, to cry tears that otherwise would have struggled to flow and to fully feel the ache and lament of my mother's passing to the very core of my being. It was the one bout of drinking in recent memory I don't regret, even though I do not advise it.
Inevitably, though, the innumerable negatives of drinking began to make themselves felt again - elevated anxiety, emotional over reactions, depressive thoughts, insomnia, physical pains, etc. - and I knew it was time to put a stop to the stupidity before I tipped over into a catastrophic tailspin that would prove exceedingly difficult to recover from.
I am now almost 2 months sober and am relieved to say that PAWS-wise, I am back to where I was before this latest slip. What prevented this from being worse is over the last few years, I have been sober for 98% of the days. Though I have yet to get a continuous year under my belt, my drinking is but a pale shadow of what it used to be and those compounding sober days do slowly but surely nip away at all the symptoms PAWS likes to throw our way.
Looking back, my PAWS was actually at its worst back in 2014, though at the time I lacked the awareness to see just how bad things really were. If I had made a clean break back then, I may have gotten over the worst of the symptoms in a couple of years. As it is, I've been on the 8 year plan, largely due to my own hesitancy to give up alcohol completely. How could I have been so stupid, how could I have been so blind to the damage alcohol was causing? At least I know now.
The bottom line is: remove alcohol from the equation and things do get better. Dramatically so. Just depending where you are in the process, the healing can be incredibly slow and sometimes it seems like nothing is getting better. As long as we're not drinking, though, healing is happening.
Stay the course, spen. You know how much worse things are when drinking vs sober. Feel the loss, feel the pain, but stay away from the poison. No amount of temporary numbness is worth the pain and suffering alcohol brings.
My mother passed in early June and I dipped my toes back into the bottle on five separate occasions over a three week period while dealing with that. There was simply no way I, being who I am, was not going to drink after such a momentous loss. Though I was fully mindful of the damage it causes, alcohol allowed me to wallow unashamedly in my grief, to cry tears that otherwise would have struggled to flow and to fully feel the ache and lament of my mother's passing to the very core of my being. It was the one bout of drinking in recent memory I don't regret, even though I do not advise it.
Inevitably, though, the innumerable negatives of drinking began to make themselves felt again - elevated anxiety, emotional over reactions, depressive thoughts, insomnia, physical pains, etc. - and I knew it was time to put a stop to the stupidity before I tipped over into a catastrophic tailspin that would prove exceedingly difficult to recover from.
I am now almost 2 months sober and am relieved to say that PAWS-wise, I am back to where I was before this latest slip. What prevented this from being worse is over the last few years, I have been sober for 98% of the days. Though I have yet to get a continuous year under my belt, my drinking is but a pale shadow of what it used to be and those compounding sober days do slowly but surely nip away at all the symptoms PAWS likes to throw our way.
Looking back, my PAWS was actually at its worst back in 2014, though at the time I lacked the awareness to see just how bad things really were. If I had made a clean break back then, I may have gotten over the worst of the symptoms in a couple of years. As it is, I've been on the 8 year plan, largely due to my own hesitancy to give up alcohol completely. How could I have been so stupid, how could I have been so blind to the damage alcohol was causing? At least I know now.
The bottom line is: remove alcohol from the equation and things do get better. Dramatically so. Just depending where you are in the process, the healing can be incredibly slow and sometimes it seems like nothing is getting better. As long as we're not drinking, though, healing is happening.
Stay the course, spen. You know how much worse things are when drinking vs sober. Feel the loss, feel the pain, but stay away from the poison. No amount of temporary numbness is worth the pain and suffering alcohol brings.
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Join Date: Jan 2021
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I lost my mother in April and my brother in the end of February. I did not pick up. PAWS has been hell for me and the thought of going backwards at all is horrifying. No one knows the answer to the question of how far back you go in healing after a "slip up". Everyone is different. But I would not play around with "slip ups". I am almost 20 months sober and hope and pray my symptoms will stop soon. Some have and some are still persistent.
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Join Date: Aug 2020
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Originally Posted by LazaB
How much effect do slip ups have on PAWS ? So hypothetically if i slip up every few months will i still continue to make progress ? ( i am not planning to do this but i am interested in how disastrous slip ups are when it comes to PAWS , and i am talking about a 1 day slip up , not full on benders that last for days. )
Does anyone have experience with this ?
Does anyone have experience with this ?
I count myself fortunate that my latest slip did not seem to totally derail healing that has taken place. However, if I were to slip every few months, I would expect to very quickly fall back into the full-blown PAWS pit. There is a very fine line to walk here, and any alcohol use can potentially cause the train to leave the tracks.
There is no doubt in my mind that my recent slip has put me back on the edge of a very dangerous precipice and it is my intention to never pick up again. PAWS is hell and the risks are too high that my next drink will put me right back in the thick of things.
The bottom line is alcohol is a potent poison and any use causes damage. Full abstinence needs to be the single-minded goal. If a slip up does occur, it's imperative to hop back onboard the sober train as quickly as possible without making any plans or allowing for the possibilities of any slips in the future. My own bitter experience has shown me that even with the best of intentions, getting and staying sober is one of the hardest things to do. There's no point in tempting fate any more than I have to.
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Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Boston, MA
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I lost my dad during PAWS too, and while it was really terrible and sad, I didn't pick up. It's so painful, but drinking to try and ease that pain only postpones the pain. Now that I've been making strides with my PAWS symptoms, I feel much less dissociated all the time and I'm starting to feel a lot of emotions that I haven't felt in years and healing pain I've carried around while being numbed out with booze. I've been crying a lot - but not the frustrating crying of PAWS -- just being hit with feelings looking at a brand new baby, or a sad commercial. I've started unpacking a lot more of my feelings about my dad dying - I've had crying spells, but I also have been feeling the feelings and processing them. Keep this in mind: Nobody has ever died from their feelings, but they most definitely have died trying not to feel them.
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Join Date: Dec 2020
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One other thing I've noticed now that I can go out into the world more (I had such terrible agorophobia - I honestly think it's what kept me from contracting Covid this whole time), is that I am sooo drained after doing anything around a lot of people. I was pretty introverted before drinking in general, and drinking allowed me to be the life of the party, but now I'm just sort of shy and forcing myself to mingle is a lot. I went to a wedding yesterday and stayed for just a couple of hours - I was exhausted when I got home and slept in today - and I of course was not even hung over! There's so much truth to what is said about introverts needing time to recharge, and it's double or triple that during PAWS. Stay the course my friends - I do honestly feel a lot better. Things I used to really dread are back to no big deal anymore - the fear slips away eventually :-)
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Originally Posted by BettyP
I lost my dad during PAWS too, and while it was really terrible and sad, I didn't pick up. It's so painful, but drinking to try and ease that pain only postpones the pain. Now that I've been making strides with my PAWS symptoms, I feel much less dissociated all the time and I'm starting to feel a lot of emotions that I haven't felt in years and healing pain I've carried around while being numbed out with booze. I've been crying a lot - but not the frustrating crying of PAWS -- just being hit with feelings looking at a brand new baby, or a sad commercial. I've started unpacking a lot more of my feelings about my dad dying - I've had crying spells, but I also have been feeling the feelings and processing them. Keep this in mind: Nobody has ever died from their feelings, but they most definitely have died trying not to feel them.
Back in May, though I had been sober for a little while (9 months), I was in a place where my AV still lurked as a distant presence in the back of my mind. Though I wasn't drinking, the honest part of me knew I wasn't completely done with alcohol yet.
When my mom passed in June, I had a few farewell toasts to her - absolutely not recommended, but for me at the same time, it felt like something I had to do. Sounds like typical AV tricks, I know. But as I was saying my goodbyes to my mom, I had the strongest sense I was also saying my goodbyes to alcohol once and for all. Just as my mother is now irrevocably gone, with that last shot, so was my relationship with alcohol. I am now only two months sober, so we'll see how that resolve holds, but so far I remain unshakeable in my conviction that I have finally, after all these decades, had my last drink. It's a good feeling.
I no longer feel powerless over alcohol - it is now powerless over me. If my sobriety does holds up the way it feels like it will, then in passing my mother provided the greatest gift she has ever given me - the opportunity to say goodbye to the bottle at the same time I was saying goodbye to her. Thanks, mom - I love you.
For the first time in this whole recovery journey, I can imagine not having another drink for the next thirty years (or however many more years I live) and not have even the smallest part of me recoil in horror. I'm adair. I'm a nondrinker. And that is all there is to that.
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Join Date: Aug 2020
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THE END OF PAWS:
In reading about PAWS, it was never clear to me how PAWS comes to an end. Does it happen suddenly or is there a prolonged, slow trail off like in a long, lingering cough that one day is just quietly, magically gone? And once the symptoms are 'gone', do they stay away for good? If I do experience symptoms again, does that mean PAWS has come back? Or is it something different?
In my experience, as the madness of PAWS diminished, my symptoms didn't just gently fade away to vanish without a trace. Instead, they gradually became less intense before quietly morphing into their workaday cousins (similar symptoms -- though tame in comparison to the PAWS version -- but at a level seen in others who never were problem drinkers).
This made it difficult to call an end to PAWS, but the mental issues I now have fall solidly within 'normal' ranges (experienced by others who have never drank themselves silly). I have reached a point where I no longer see a need to label any of the mental phenomena I'm experiencing as PAWS. As part of this assessment, my partner acts as one of the control subjects. We are the same age (50's), share the same diet, etc. - the only difference is he has never been a drinker.
A few symptoms that started off at PAWS-level intensity but are now at a level experienced by many non-drinkers:
1. Anhedonia - reduced interest in activities one used to enjoy. Under PAWS, it was sometimes a struggle merely to get out of bed in the morning. Nothing about the day or life in general held any interest to me. Now, I find life to be somewhat blah in general, but so does my partner as well as many other people. There is nothing particularly special about what I'm feeling anymore - it's nothing but run-of-the-mill, humdrum, everyday mid-life blues.
2. Early onset dementia cluster of symptoms - Under PAWS, I experienced constant memory problems, mental confusion, depression, elevated anxiety, panic attacks, emotional meltdowns over little things, etc. It felt like I truly was going mad, and I honestly didn't think I would ever recover. These days, I occasionally forget things, feel a little down or get a little anxious, but so does almost everyone else I know. Again, my symptoms now all fall under what can be expected as one ages.
3. Dizziness and brain fog - With PAWS, there was an odd constant dizziness and unsteadiness that would not go away accompanied by an unrelenting brain fog that made thinking about even the simplest of things an effort. Those symptoms have now almost completely vanished.
The good news for anyone suffering from PAWS is: PAWS is not forever. Even when you're stuck in the middle of it and it seems like it will never end, stay the course, abstain from alcohol, and it will eventually end. Stop fueling the Beast with alcohol and PAWS withers and dies. Life doesn't become perfect after that and there will still be many mental challenges to navigate, but you'll be in the same boat as everyone else.
In reading about PAWS, it was never clear to me how PAWS comes to an end. Does it happen suddenly or is there a prolonged, slow trail off like in a long, lingering cough that one day is just quietly, magically gone? And once the symptoms are 'gone', do they stay away for good? If I do experience symptoms again, does that mean PAWS has come back? Or is it something different?
In my experience, as the madness of PAWS diminished, my symptoms didn't just gently fade away to vanish without a trace. Instead, they gradually became less intense before quietly morphing into their workaday cousins (similar symptoms -- though tame in comparison to the PAWS version -- but at a level seen in others who never were problem drinkers).
This made it difficult to call an end to PAWS, but the mental issues I now have fall solidly within 'normal' ranges (experienced by others who have never drank themselves silly). I have reached a point where I no longer see a need to label any of the mental phenomena I'm experiencing as PAWS. As part of this assessment, my partner acts as one of the control subjects. We are the same age (50's), share the same diet, etc. - the only difference is he has never been a drinker.
A few symptoms that started off at PAWS-level intensity but are now at a level experienced by many non-drinkers:
1. Anhedonia - reduced interest in activities one used to enjoy. Under PAWS, it was sometimes a struggle merely to get out of bed in the morning. Nothing about the day or life in general held any interest to me. Now, I find life to be somewhat blah in general, but so does my partner as well as many other people. There is nothing particularly special about what I'm feeling anymore - it's nothing but run-of-the-mill, humdrum, everyday mid-life blues.
2. Early onset dementia cluster of symptoms - Under PAWS, I experienced constant memory problems, mental confusion, depression, elevated anxiety, panic attacks, emotional meltdowns over little things, etc. It felt like I truly was going mad, and I honestly didn't think I would ever recover. These days, I occasionally forget things, feel a little down or get a little anxious, but so does almost everyone else I know. Again, my symptoms now all fall under what can be expected as one ages.
3. Dizziness and brain fog - With PAWS, there was an odd constant dizziness and unsteadiness that would not go away accompanied by an unrelenting brain fog that made thinking about even the simplest of things an effort. Those symptoms have now almost completely vanished.
The good news for anyone suffering from PAWS is: PAWS is not forever. Even when you're stuck in the middle of it and it seems like it will never end, stay the course, abstain from alcohol, and it will eventually end. Stop fueling the Beast with alcohol and PAWS withers and dies. Life doesn't become perfect after that and there will still be many mental challenges to navigate, but you'll be in the same boat as everyone else.
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I don't really know what PAWS are anymore , my main symptom is anxiety but i don't even know if that is related to PAWS or not , i know it definitely came with alcohol addiction though.
Because i started teaching some classes online for money in April ( because i had to ) and i had huge anxiety everyday for the first 2,5 months. Anxiety/panic was 100% PAWS related because i never felt that kind of anxiety before i started drinking ( dizziness , shortness of breath , feeling shaky ... ) but after 2,5 months ( 2 months ago ) it just disappeared.
I read about exposure therapy and how exposing yourself to something that scares you will make the fear go away so maybe this was just that , i still have very high anxiety in many other situations but i am not sure if it's PAWS or just phobias that came with alcohol addiction , i am confused but also happy that i have solved at least one of my fears ( for now ).
Because i started teaching some classes online for money in April ( because i had to ) and i had huge anxiety everyday for the first 2,5 months. Anxiety/panic was 100% PAWS related because i never felt that kind of anxiety before i started drinking ( dizziness , shortness of breath , feeling shaky ... ) but after 2,5 months ( 2 months ago ) it just disappeared.
I read about exposure therapy and how exposing yourself to something that scares you will make the fear go away so maybe this was just that , i still have very high anxiety in many other situations but i am not sure if it's PAWS or just phobias that came with alcohol addiction , i am confused but also happy that i have solved at least one of my fears ( for now ).
Paddy123
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 120
Thank you Adair and LazaB, I'm gradually getting over paws, I had a small relapse 10 days ago, a few drinks over the border in Jordan (from Saudi Arabia) I had around 65 days under my belt and was back to square 1, but now feeling fairly good, was not as bad as my previous PAWS episodes, but know I damaged my brain again!!. Back now eating healthy and try to keep moving and sleeping well again. My memory was shot, which is not good especially in my job, the brain fog has lifted thank God. As Adair says about the early onset of dementia is probably me at 60.5 years old, getting old!!! I didn't drink that much in my relapse but now I know I really cannot drink at all !!!(probably kindling etc) especially when it wipes me mentally out for a week just for a quick buzz, not worth it, bye bye poison. Take care everyone.
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Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Texas
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by BettyP
One other thing I've noticed now that I can go out into the world more (I had such terrible agorophobia - I honestly think it's what kept me from contracting Covid this whole time), is that I am sooo drained after doing anything around a lot of people. I was pretty introverted before drinking in general, and drinking allowed me to be the life of the party, but now I'm just sort of shy and forcing myself to mingle is a lot. I went to a wedding yesterday and stayed for just a couple of hours - I was exhausted when I got home and slept in today - and I of course was not even hung over! There's so much truth to what is said about introverts needing time to recharge, and it's double or triple that during PAWS. Stay the course my friends - I do honestly feel a lot better. Things I used to really dread are back to no big deal anymore - the fear slips away eventually :-)
Originally Posted by LazaB
Anxiety/panic was 100% PAWS related because i never felt that kind of anxiety before i started drinking ( dizziness , shortness of breath , feeling shaky ... ) but after 2,5 months ( 2 months ago ) it just disappeared.
I read about exposure therapy and how exposing yourself to something that scares you will make the fear go away so maybe this was just that , i still have very high anxiety in many other situations but i am not sure if it's PAWS or just phobias that came with alcohol addiction , i am confused but also happy that i have solved at least one of my fears ( for now ).
I read about exposure therapy and how exposing yourself to something that scares you will make the fear go away so maybe this was just that , i still have very high anxiety in many other situations but i am not sure if it's PAWS or just phobias that came with alcohol addiction , i am confused but also happy that i have solved at least one of my fears ( for now ).
I also now have tools in my arsenal to deal with it when it pops up that I didn't know about back in the day - meditative techniques to create a little space around the anxiety (deep breaths and basking in the feeling without identifying with it) and then basic CBT techniques to chip away at the fact that there is no objective reason to be anxious. With every opportunity I reinforce the notion that it's all just in my head, none of it's real and I have the power to ignore it.
When these tools work, I lean into them and power through whatever situation is causing the the anxiety to flare up. Over time, my anxiety is growing weaker. I'm not always successful and when it's obvious my anxiety is entrenched in place and isn't going anywhere, I withdraw from the situation asap so as not to reinforce the negatives.
Recovery is a series of constant battles and skirmishes. I win some, I lose some. But overall it's really beginning to feel like the tide has turned and it's now only a matter of time before the war is won.
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Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Texas
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by Paddy123
Thank you Adair and LazaB, I'm gradually getting over paws, I had a small relapse 10 days ago, a few drinks over the border in Jordan (from Saudi Arabia) I had around 65 days under my belt and was back to square 1, but now feeling fairly good, was not as bad as my previous PAWS episodes, but know I damaged my brain again!!. Back now eating healthy and try to keep moving and sleeping well again. My memory was shot, which is not good especially in my job, the brain fog has lifted thank God. As Adair says about the early onset of dementia is probably me at 60.5 years old, getting old!!! I didn't drink that much in my relapse but now I know I really cannot drink at all !!!(probably kindling etc) especially when it wipes me mentally out for a week just for a quick buzz, not worth it, bye bye poison. Take care everyone.
Even with the best of intentions, the AV does occasionally land a surprise left hook that leaves us momentarily bloodied and bruised. When that happens , no biggie, just raise your guard once more and hop right back into the good fight.
It took my mom passing for me to finally wake up and say goodbye to alcohol with a finality that surprised me with its depth and surety. Yes, I am now done with that poison forever. Finally.
Each person's path through recovery is a little different, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel for everyone as long as we keep striving and never abandon hope.
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Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 326
I'm having a big ol wave this weekend. It started Thursday - woke up after having an awful drinking dream where in the dream I not only drank, but somehow was also hungover. Thursday itself was pretty terrible - felt like a six month step back in time it was that bad. Then yesterday a little better but feeling pretty hopeless and depressed and a lot of "why me?" and "this will never end." I found this post on Benzo Buddies about what your brain is actually doing - it helped me reel it in a little http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/in...topic=232042.0. I think it would definitely be helpful for anyone behind me - it explains what your brain is doing and the different parts that are responsible for the different things you're experiencing. I think I can honestly say that I've had literally ALL the PAWS symptoms except for the dreaded boaty feeling (knocks hard on wood). Like every one. I drank heavily from the time I was a teenager until I was in my mid 40s, and let me tell ya - it takes a good long while for the brain to recalibrate!
Hope everyone else is hanging in there this weekend - would love to hear from anyone else in the trenches :-D
Hope everyone else is hanging in there this weekend - would love to hear from anyone else in the trenches :-D
Paddy123
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 120
Hi Adair and Betty P, just dropping in to say hello, still taking it day by day and thinking of my plan for when I return home from Saudi Arabia to Ireland. Many of my friend want to meet up, yes, old drinking mates including my brothers, I will meet up but stay dry, I have told them I'm staying off the poison, they don't understand the pain of PAWS and I'm sure they too will Secom to it someday!!
One of my friends who knows he's an alcoholic has warned me about hitting the bottle again, he is afraid to stop as he knows what's ahead, he has asked for a private meeting with him when i'm home and I guess he wants me to help him with his giving up, I would love to oblige. I will only be home for 2 weeks and then back again to dry Saudi, then home for Christmas, its like rehab for me and I'm getting better every day. Reading up so much, oh thanks BettyP for the Benzo article I will read soon. I'm eating alot of berries and nuts now and veggies. Its so dam slow, my brain fog is still here, but probably lessening by 1% per day so another while yet lol. I'm also getting a little better sleep also which helps, but suffer from fatigue most days, I cannot wait for that to go. Thanks Adair for your comment, it has lifted me as I gets bouts of depression, don't know if its depression, depression or PAWS if you know what I mean, but lessening as time goes on. Also I find getting out here in the evening and meeting people even from work helps me ....just to talk to someone as gets very lonely here at time..Yes Adair everyone's journey is different and gotta soldier on, day by day...have a lovely day/evening or whatever, I'm going to read BettyP's report now and then bed, night night from desert. Thanks for talking and reading, God Bless, Night
One of my friends who knows he's an alcoholic has warned me about hitting the bottle again, he is afraid to stop as he knows what's ahead, he has asked for a private meeting with him when i'm home and I guess he wants me to help him with his giving up, I would love to oblige. I will only be home for 2 weeks and then back again to dry Saudi, then home for Christmas, its like rehab for me and I'm getting better every day. Reading up so much, oh thanks BettyP for the Benzo article I will read soon. I'm eating alot of berries and nuts now and veggies. Its so dam slow, my brain fog is still here, but probably lessening by 1% per day so another while yet lol. I'm also getting a little better sleep also which helps, but suffer from fatigue most days, I cannot wait for that to go. Thanks Adair for your comment, it has lifted me as I gets bouts of depression, don't know if its depression, depression or PAWS if you know what I mean, but lessening as time goes on. Also I find getting out here in the evening and meeting people even from work helps me ....just to talk to someone as gets very lonely here at time..Yes Adair everyone's journey is different and gotta soldier on, day by day...have a lovely day/evening or whatever, I'm going to read BettyP's report now and then bed, night night from desert. Thanks for talking and reading, God Bless, Night
Paddy123
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 120
Hi BettyP I just read the Benzo article, Wow what a fantastic article, thanks very much, helped me feel so much better, will reread again tomorrow, 'not pain healing'... love it..Such a positive article, has lifted me big time, thanks again, night night
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Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Texas
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by BettyP
I'm having a big ol wave this weekend. It started Thursday - woke up after having an awful drinking dream where in the dream I not only drank, but somehow was also hungover. Thursday itself was pretty terrible - felt like a six month step back in time it was that bad. Then yesterday a little better but feeling pretty hopeless and depressed and a lot of "why me?" and "this will never end." I found this post on Benzo Buddies about what your brain is actually doing - it helped me reel it in a little What is happening in your brain?. I think it would definitely be helpful for anyone behind me - it explains what your brain is doing and the different parts that are responsible for the different things you're experiencing. I think I can honestly say that I've had literally ALL the PAWS symptoms except for the dreaded boaty feeling (knocks hard on wood). Like every one. I drank heavily from the time I was a teenager until I was in my mid 40s, and let me tell ya - it takes a good long while for the brain to recalibrate!
Hope everyone else is hanging in there this weekend - would love to hear from anyone else in the trenches :-D
Hope everyone else is hanging in there this weekend - would love to hear from anyone else in the trenches :-D
Reframing my perception of PAWS symptoms helped tremendously in getting over them. When a PAWS wave hit, I went from thinking despairingly, 'Oh no, my anxiety is through the roof again! Will things never get better?' to 'How interesting, there is elevated anxiety. Look at the brain go in sorting everything out!' That shift was huge in achieving some measure of clinical detachment from the symptoms. From then on, no matter how bad things were in the moment, I knew things were improving and no longer doubted that one day my brain would recover.
Originally Posted by Paddy123
Many of my friend want to meet up, yes, old drinking mates including my brothers, I will meet up but stay dry, I have told them I'm staying off the poison, they don't understand the pain of PAWS
For myself, simply denying alcohol no matter what (I do not drink, ever!) even though the AV remained a sneaky, elusive presence lurking in the dark recesses of my mind was one rung short on the recovery ladder from where I needed to be. Yes, the goal has always been to never drink again, but for my recovery efforts to truly register as a win, I had to figure out a way to say goodbye and kill off the AV once and for all.
I believe it was the book 'Why Buddhism is True' by Robert Wright that expressed how the mind, rather than being one cohesive entity, is actually made up of a host of separate, competing mental modules evaluating and sizing up a given circumstance, battling for prominence. In any situation, a consensus is eventually reached and that is what drives our behaviors.
Merely relegating the AV to a minority mental module which, at the moment, no longer drives behavior does not leave me any confidence it will not, at some later date, make a play and drive behaviors again. I could not rest until I figured out how to drive the AV from the sub-modules of my mind completely.
Onward, sober soldiers!
Paddy123
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 120
Hi Adair, thanks for your reply, yes totally agree about your perception about PAWS, to me now with just around 21 days clean after my 1 evening blowout which put me back from 65 days to 0, anyway I wont dwell on that!! Its all about time and healing. To assist I'm eating as much nutritious food as possible (plenty of veg, nuts, eggs, fruit etc.). I find it difficult to exercise as I just too tired at the moment, I sneak in a 10 minute walk at lunch time everyday in the hot sun and try to keep moving as much as possible in my desk job. I take some vitamin tablets but they don't seem to do anything!! Anyway, my sleep is gradually improving, I normally only manage 6.5 hours a night, no matter what, if I go to bed earlier I wake earlier etc. but I am beginning to feel rested better and better everyday. I still have the brain fog, but its brain healing 
and takes time considering the years I spent abusing it. My short-term memory I hope will improve too as its terrible, but on the mend, I'm eating plenty of blueberries, wall nuts and green leaves like spinach which I read are good for brain. (not medical advice). Adair, yes I hear you about sneaky AV I will give any high-powered reunion with my mates as miss. I will make an excuse and **** off Mr. AV. LOL. I will focus on family and bring my kids to some nice beaches and spectacular castles in Ireland. Also climb some mountains and go sight seeing, it really is very old and beautiful Ireland, I personally like the prehistoric monuments and fairy forts. google one monument near me, called newgrange.ie its older than the Pyramids of Egypt. HAVE A LOOK!!..Anyway going off in a tangent here and will have a nice cameline tea before bed, things are on the up, the derealization and depression is on the wane and when I think about it my relapse did not totally put my clock back to 0 but probably 60%, its 3 weeks since my relapse and hopefully Mr. PAWS is not waiting for me on my 4th. week??? but still dealing with bouts of fatigue, hopefully that will ease up soon when my brain gets around to it lol. Take care Adair, oh there is a very old town in Ireland called Adare, sounds like your name, it has plenty of history and is regarded as Ireland prettiest village, nice hotel and castle too!! going off subject again, curtains coming down now as near my bedtime, night night everyone, don't pick up, brain is healing, just takes time
and takes time considering the years I spent abusing it. My short-term memory I hope will improve too as its terrible, but on the mend, I'm eating plenty of blueberries, wall nuts and green leaves like spinach which I read are good for brain. (not medical advice). Adair, yes I hear you about sneaky AV I will give any high-powered reunion with my mates as miss. I will make an excuse and **** off Mr. AV. LOL. I will focus on family and bring my kids to some nice beaches and spectacular castles in Ireland. Also climb some mountains and go sight seeing, it really is very old and beautiful Ireland, I personally like the prehistoric monuments and fairy forts. google one monument near me, called newgrange.ie its older than the Pyramids of Egypt. HAVE A LOOK!!..Anyway going off in a tangent here and will have a nice cameline tea before bed, things are on the up, the derealization and depression is on the wane and when I think about it my relapse did not totally put my clock back to 0 but probably 60%, its 3 weeks since my relapse and hopefully Mr. PAWS is not waiting for me on my 4th. week??? but still dealing with bouts of fatigue, hopefully that will ease up soon when my brain gets around to it lol. Take care Adair, oh there is a very old town in Ireland called Adare, sounds like your name, it has plenty of history and is regarded as Ireland prettiest village, nice hotel and castle too!! going off subject again, curtains coming down now as near my bedtime, night night everyone, don't pick up, brain is healing, just takes time
Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Texas
Posts: 110
Newgrange sounds very interesting and would definitly make my must see list if I were to visit Ireland. I am of half-Irish, half-German descent so if I ever decide to visit the homelands of my ancestors, I'll make a point to stop by.
With the worst PAWS has to offer behind me (knock on wood), I'm working on tackling my remaining baseline mental health issues. If leaning heavily into my PAWS symptoms helped them diminish, maybe a similar tactic will help with my other symptoms? It's worth a try.
I'm starting with anxiety. Physiologically, I experience anxiety most strongly in my chest area and I recently realized I've been breathing incorrectly for years. My default respiration pattern is too shallow and too rapid so I've begun doing breath work to slow down my breathing rate and increase my CO2 tolerance. I've only been at it a few days but subjectively I've already noticed some improvement. It can take 12 - 16 weeks to fully retrain one's breathing, so it will be awhile before I see how much this actually helps.
Ever onward, ever upward, one step at a time. Mt Everest is not conquered in a day.
With the worst PAWS has to offer behind me (knock on wood), I'm working on tackling my remaining baseline mental health issues. If leaning heavily into my PAWS symptoms helped them diminish, maybe a similar tactic will help with my other symptoms? It's worth a try.
I'm starting with anxiety. Physiologically, I experience anxiety most strongly in my chest area and I recently realized I've been breathing incorrectly for years. My default respiration pattern is too shallow and too rapid so I've begun doing breath work to slow down my breathing rate and increase my CO2 tolerance. I've only been at it a few days but subjectively I've already noticed some improvement. It can take 12 - 16 weeks to fully retrain one's breathing, so it will be awhile before I see how much this actually helps.
Ever onward, ever upward, one step at a time. Mt Everest is not conquered in a day.
Paddy123
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 120
Hi Adair, good to hear from you yes New Grange is a must, as are many other things in Ireland. If you ever coming please let me know and if I'm not there my brother will look after, he's a tour guide for Dublin City. Do you know where your great grandparents came from in Ireland? Yes hopefully leaning of Paws will help other symptoms, best of luck. My anxiety was not bad today and had a good day in general. I journal my status every day and today was a 90% day, the day before was 60%. I put the uplift down to going to bed half an hour earlier. I will try again tonight and hopefully that will work again..?? Even though I didn't sleep straight away my body was relaxed in bed and I probably fell asleep earlier than usual. That's amazing about your breathing Adair, I do breathing exercise now and again 4 in, hold for 4, and out for 4 seconds that is lol ...not minutes hahhahahha. Best of luck with it Adair, did you seek any professional medical advice? probably worth an x-ray or something?? I had a bonus today, I'm going home on 1st September and thought it was next Friday but its not, its next Thursday, so home for weekend and can bring my kids out to fun park before they go back to school, cant wait myself, have a look where we will go.. just google Tayto Park Ireland, you want to see the size of the roller coasters lol..I only have 15 days home and hope to spend as much time with family and stay distracted from drink and get more dry time under my belt. I also get bouts of depression and think about lost opportunities with guilt, then I overthink and overthink, maybe I need to see a shrink about this? as it can be very distracting and wears down my brain with overthinking and guilt about the past. Maybe its a symptom of recovery and will pass??
Now nearly my early bedtime again, best of Luck Adair and you always welcome to come over. Just remember don't pick up and the brain will heal more and help the rest of the body recovery of its troubles, good night from the desert.
yes New Grange is a must, as are many other things in Ireland. If you ever coming please let me know and if I'm not there my brother will look after, he's a tour guide for Dublin City. Do you know where your great grandparents came from in Ireland? Yes hopefully leaning of Paws will help other symptoms, best of luck. My anxiety was not bad today and had a good day in general. I journal my status every day and today was a 90% day, the day before was 60%. I put the uplift down to going to bed half an hour earlier. I will try again tonight and hopefully that will work again..?? Even though I didn't sleep straight away my body was relaxed in bed and I probably fell asleep earlier than usual. That's amazing about your breathing Adair, I do breathing exercise now and again 4 in, hold for 4, and out for 4 seconds that is lol ...not minutes hahhahahha. Best of luck with it Adair, did you seek any professional medical advice? probably worth an x-ray or something?? I had a bonus today, I'm going home on 1st September and thought it was next Friday but its not, its next Thursday, so home for weekend and can bring my kids out to fun park before they go back to school, cant wait myself, have a look where we will go.. just google Tayto Park Ireland, you want to see the size of the roller coasters lol..I only have 15 days home and hope to spend as much time with family and stay distracted from drink and get more dry time under my belt. I also get bouts of depression and think about lost opportunities with guilt, then I overthink and overthink, maybe I need to see a shrink about this? as it can be very distracting and wears down my brain with overthinking and guilt about the past. Maybe its a symptom of recovery and will pass??Now nearly my early bedtime again, best of Luck Adair and you always welcome to come over. Just remember don't pick up and the brain will heal more and help the rest of the body recovery of its troubles, good night from the desert.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Texas
Posts: 110
It's good you will be getting home for a spell and returning to the gentle greens and crisp, cool air of the north. It's got to be balm for the spirit.
I think we all struggle with guilt over missed opportunities and past damages caused by our drinking. But there's nothing we can do about the past except leave it where it is - behind us. All we can do now is remain committed to live each and every new day with honor and dignity, to ensure nothing we do causes any more shame or guilt and have our thoughts and actions informed by our past but not ruled by it.
I think we all struggle with guilt over missed opportunities and past damages caused by our drinking. But there's nothing we can do about the past except leave it where it is - behind us. All we can do now is remain committed to live each and every new day with honor and dignity, to ensure nothing we do causes any more shame or guilt and have our thoughts and actions informed by our past but not ruled by it.
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