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Old 05-21-2022, 06:21 AM
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Yes O I can definitely relate. I think I've read your post 15 or 20 times and I relate to all of it. It's upsetting to think that I'm not going to be able to just drop the issues from my past and walk away clean. That I might have to deal with or process all of those emotions to escape the instinctive reactions.

It was a tough day yesterday. Friday again, very stressful. Work stuff mostly. My AV went into overdrive in the afternoon. I almost gave in honestly. Not wanting to come here and admit that I drank saved me.
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Old 05-22-2022, 09:33 AM
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Oh, don't be disheartened, Five. There's a whole world of 'better' waiting for you.

So there are a number of ways of "dealing with" or "processing" emotions from those long ago hurts. Somehow, I was under the impression that would need to be something along the lines of direct confrontation with the experiences, or the person(s) or the emotions I felt at the time. After my most recent crash and subsequent disappointment with New Gal, I've been rethinking. Perhaps it's ok to leave that stuff in the metaphorical box. After all, it held me in good stead to do that for over two years. Why couldn't that continue to be the case?

I do believe it's important to understand my reactions to situations or people's behavior, but I kind of think now that's really the crux of the matter. "Of course that person shutting me out is intensely painful - after all, that's the story of my youth. It feels aggressive and as if I'm being punished for being myself. Just like being shunned and bullied in grade school." Once I can see the connection and accept that reality, I am able to reassure myself. "That's ok, I'm grown now. I can figure out how to handle this situation." Sometimes that means I do nothing, other times it means I do something non-aggressive and non-spiteful to assert myself with that person.

One of the many things I learned most recently is that I need to be extremely mindful when I'm ready to jump into a change to "make things better" for myself. The front part of my brain is all gung-ho sometimes, but there's a deeper part in my brain that gets completely freaked out by that. I can't just keep shushing that part of myself that feels vulnerable. To do so is to invite disaster. It's tricky because I'm not necessarily even aware when this is happening. But I think just knowing its a thing for me is a good discovery.

I'm really glad you didn't drink Friday, Five. Just keep doing that. It gets better.

O
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Old 05-22-2022, 08:57 PM
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I’m glad you didn’t drink as well Five

D
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Old 05-23-2022, 04:49 AM
  # 344 (permalink)  
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Thanks Obladi and Dee

I stayed sober all weekend. Didn't get much done at all though. I have so much more time available as I'm sober, but still feel completely unable to get to the tasks I need to get done. Not sure I really want to do all that work. The stress has definitely built up on me. I'm tired.

Facing another long week at the office. I'm hoping that last weeks stress doesn't carry into this week, but I'm expecting that it will. It already is. I am walking around with the sense that I'm waiting for judgement. So I'm already judging myself, harshly. Even though I don't think I did anything wrong. It's crazy making.

This is not the way I want to start my week. I think I should be refreshed and ready, instead I want to hide out under the covers. Certain things might be getting better, but life sure isn't getting any easier.

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Old 05-23-2022, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Obladi View Post

One of the many things I learned most recently is that I need to be extremely mindful when I'm ready to jump into a change to "make things better" for myself. The front part of my brain is all gung-ho sometimes, but there's a deeper part in my brain that gets completely freaked out by that. I can't just keep shushing that part of myself that feels vulnerable. To do so is to invite disaster. It's tricky because I'm not necessarily even aware when this is happening. But I think just knowing its a thing for me is a good discovery.
This is all definitely something important for me to look at.

Once again I'm not sure what my goal is. I can't seem to keep up with everyone else, my neighbors, coworkers, friends, and family. People that are wildly successful. That's all I can see, is everyone that's doing better than me. I'm not going to catch up or measure up.

So what is there to change?
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Old 05-23-2022, 09:00 AM
  # 346 (permalink)  
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You know what's happening, right? The AV is priming you for a drinking spree. Life is boring, hard. You are a failure, you're tired, you can't cope.

You know that Bob Newhart sketch, where he says "Stop It?"
That's what you need to tell your AV. Just stop it.

These are still early days, my friend. What you can change is to dial back your expectations of yourself. Recovery takes a good while longer than a month. You can change falling back into the same destructive patterns.

I swear, when I first got sober for good, I spent a good year saying to myself, "My only goal is to Not Drink." Anything more than that was gravy. More happened, for sure, but it was vital to take the pressure off of myself. If I gained a few pounds, if the grass didn't get cut, if I didn't deal with the pile of junk outside, too bad. Because I was Not Drinking. No attitude, just "This is how it is right now." You don't need to have a goal right now (aside from Not Drinking). You don't need to measure up against anyone's yardstick. And I'm sure you've heard that one shouldn't measure one's insides against other peoples' outsides. It's just not a fair comparison. And anyhow, do you want to be like those other people, really? I'll bet not. You probably just want to get out of your skin right now. And that's understandable. It's hard not having something to 'take the edge off,' but I promise the edges will soften as you stick with your commitment to your own authenticity.

As far as the work situation goes, here's my unsolicited advice (what's new, right? ): Go talk to whoever it is you fear you may be 'in trouble' with. Tell them you are really bothered about the thing that happened and want to be sure to do what you can to fix it - or prevent it from happening in the future. Ask for their opinion and guidance. You know I don't particularly agree with my manager in many respects, but I've found that she is very receptive to this approach and sometimes even tells me that I have nothing to worry about. Even when she doesn't say that, it helps enormously to lead with something like "I was really upset by xyz the other day and thought I'd like to ask for your input." Matter-of-fact with little emotion works best.

Big hug, Five

Hang in there.

O
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Old 05-23-2022, 07:59 PM
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I was actually surprised that you think the AV is priming me for a drinking spree. I'd be lying if I said there's not a part of me that finds the idea appealing. Let's be honest, a big part. The actual thought of F-it hasn't landed yet though.

There's this part in the big book that I wondered about for a long time. It says something like, 'once I pick up a drink again, I'll go through the well-known stages of a spree.' Until I get back to the point where I promise not to do it again.

I always wondered what that meant. I mean what are the well known stages? I finally figured that it must be different for everyone. I know what my well known stages look like. I start at annoyed and uncomfortable. From there I move into planning to drink.

Since drinking still sounds appealing its hard for me to say right now that I won't drink ever again. I tell myself that if I want to I can quit forever, since I've learned the tools. But that leaves the door open. I've said never ever ever many times and obviously not pulled it off. Those two ideas obviously don't match up well.

I would have to prove that I can quit forever by not drinking ever again. Ugh.

I can definitely focus on changing the expectations. That seems like the best thing right now. I was feeling good but now life has lost its color it seems.

I'm like...ok. what's next?
A whole bunch of stressful stuff I don't wanna do, with nothing to take the edge off. Lovely.

I want to keep pushing through to see what happens, so I'll try to just get through the now. Not drinking this past weekend is a definite win.
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Old 05-23-2022, 09:44 PM
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Once again I'm not sure what my goal is. I can't seem to keep up with everyone else, my neighbors, coworkers, friends, and family. People that are wildly successful. That's all I can see, is everyone that's doing better than me. I'm not going to catch up or measure up.

So what is there to change?
Impostor syndrome hits us all - but drinkings not the solution.
It will just leave you feeling like you're further behind.

Your life is not going to be great immediately...it takes work. I stopped drinking but I still had most of the things I drank over.
If this is a long standing feeling, maybe working with a counsellor is worth a thought?

my primary goal at the start was to not drink again. That was it.

I realise you have a lot of other balls in the air too, but you'll get to those.
Trying to make up for lost time is not always the best way to go.

and...thinking of drinking is not a failure or a sign that you're heading for failure.
The strength of recovery lies in not never thinking of drinking again - but in what we do in response to those thoughts

If you're like me you drank for years...it takes time to change the synapses.

Try and be patient

D


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Old 05-24-2022, 06:34 AM
  # 349 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FiveTries View Post
This is all definitely something important for me to look at.

Once again I'm not sure what my goal is. I can't seem to keep up with everyone else, my neighbors, coworkers, friends, and family. People that are wildly successful. That's all I can see, is everyone that's doing better than me. I'm not going to catch up or measure up.

So what is there to change?
You are not everyone else. You are you. There is a lot in your life to be grateful for. Perhaps some people are saying "I wish I had what Five has!" and then you are over here saying " I wish I was as successful as that guy" and then someone else is somewhere saying "I wish I could just be like so and so"

We are all unique to this world. No one else is going to be Five. No one else is going to Mizz. So, lets be the best versions or ourselves and shine our lights brightly! Acknowledge your greatness, your strengths, and work on those things that you perceive to be your weakness. Be you. Brilliantly you. Everyone has their stuff, Five. There is no one to try to 'keep up with.'
Live your life for you and your beautiful family.
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Old 05-24-2022, 03:37 PM
  # 350 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FiveTries View Post
Since drinking still sounds appealing its hard for me to say right now that I won't drink ever again. I tell myself that if I want to I can quit forever, since I've learned the tools. But that leaves the door open. I've said never ever ever many times and obviously not pulled it off. Those two ideas obviously don't match up well.

I would have to prove that I can quit forever by not drinking ever again. Ugh.

I can definitely focus on changing the expectations. That seems like the best thing right now. I was feeling good but now life has lost its color it seems.

I'm like...ok. what's next?
A whole bunch of stressful stuff I don't wanna do, with nothing to take the edge off. Lovely.

I want to keep pushing through to see what happens, so I'll try to just get through the now. Not drinking this past weekend is a definite win.
Yeah, I get it. That's what gets my AV going - the "ok, what's next" bit. Actually, it's more like that's a sign that the beast is stirring. At that point, there's no "Hey, let's drink!" thinking going on. It's more like restless, irritable, discontent - or some combination thereof. My AV is pretty clever - it tries to keep the beast activity on the QT because it knows I'm keeping an eye out.

What I needed to learn is that my inclination to respond to "what's next?" ("Let's fix everything! Now!") is a danger sign. That feeling was at the start of my last slide. Here I thought I was doing the right thing by deciding the next thing to do was to tackle my perceived weakness, but noooo - I was just priming myself to freak the dickins out. Quite some time ago, I had a little talk here with myself and realized that sometimes the best thing to do when I feel all out of sorts is... nothing. Live through it. What a concept, right? I'd be lyin if I said I didn't do it very gracefully, but I got more skilled with time. Except for two months ago - I just didn't realize the danger.

You don't have to prove you've quit forever.
You can just prove that you never drink now.
You're not drinking right now, are you?
See? You did it! And you can do it again.
For me, it's much more do-able that way.

Yes, absolutely not drinking over the weekend was a big win. You should feel proud of yourself for breaking through that barrier.

xo
O


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Old 05-26-2022, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mizz View Post
You are not everyone else. You are you. There is a lot in your life to be grateful for. Perhaps some people are saying "I wish I had what Five has!" and then you are over here saying " I wish I was as successful as that guy" and then someone else is somewhere saying "I wish I could just be like so and so"

We are all unique to this world. No one else is going to be Five. No one else is going to Mizz. So, lets be the best versions or ourselves and shine our lights brightly! Acknowledge your greatness, your strengths, and work on those things that you perceive to be your weakness. Be you. Brilliantly you. Everyone has their stuff, Five. There is no one to try to 'keep up with.'
Live your life for you and your beautiful family.
This is great Mizz.
I really thought about this a lot. I wish I had this kind of positivity in me. Maybe I do? Sometimes I start to think that way but it doesn't last. It's all wrapped up in FOO stuff, and lots of bad emotional habits. I will keep your words in mind. Brilliantly me...I love that.

I picked up a drink last night. The writing was on the wall, good call O. Not much to say more than that at this point. My friends randomly called and asked if I wanted to go out and I said yes. Just like that.

I'm planning on having some drinks the next few days. Going to a buddys house tomorrow, and probably will have some drinks with my wife Saturday. Then back to this hard work of trying to stay sober. It was a decent stretch. Sobriety is the way to live, that's for sure.

Be back soon


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Old 05-26-2022, 02:41 PM
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I couldn't get sober and stay that way without changing my life. God knows I tried.
Honestly, I really hope that SR sticks with you and ruins your drinking plans on the weekend, man.

D
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Old 05-26-2022, 03:55 PM
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It gives me no pleasure to have called it, Five.

Bear in mind that they call this thing progressive. Just because you’ve been able to have yourself a drunken weekend and pull out of it of your own accord every other time doesn’t mean that’s how it’s gonna go next time.

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Old 06-06-2022, 08:09 AM
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Brief update

I kept on drinking. I ended up getting pretty drunk the other night which wasn't pleasant. Other than that I'm ok. The drunken night I was not around my family and didn't drive. Aside from that night the amounts have been reasonable.

My body doesn't like the alcohol anymore, but my mind does. It's just so normal to be a drinker. Even though I feel like crap sometimes. Friends and events filled up the calendar again. Still working hard but also getting to play hard. Life is a bit less stressful, but it can't last.

This forum has been great for me. I appreciate all of you. Obladi, your wisdom has been life changing, thank you. Hope one day I can put in the work. It's true that I can't flip the switch on demand. Someday I'll come back to trying sobriety proper. Until then I won't waste more of your time.

With love...
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Old 06-06-2022, 02:03 PM
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I hope you change your mind and stick around Five.

It’s not normal in any sense of the word to drink the way we do.
The body and mind can’t sustain it.

The lucky ones get a chance to quit.
The unlucky ones do not - and their families and friends have to try and go on without them.

I know which one you want to be Five.

D

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Old 06-06-2022, 02:11 PM
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Five, There was zero time wasted on you. We're here to share what we've been through & help if we can. I hope you'll remember us & return any time you feel the desire to make the big change. We'll be around.
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Old 06-06-2022, 04:30 PM
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My Dear Five,

I am sad that you've decided to continue drinking - I assume that's for the season? The one that lasts clear through and past New Year's? I'm also sad that I understand completely this type of giving up. I did it plenty of times myself, you know.

I can't talk you into making the commitment, getting the determination, or any other such thing and I know that because none of that worked for me either. It's an inside job, as we both well know.

Dee and Anna are both right, you know. You've "wasted" no one's time and there is no need to leave here on our behalf. We have been there, we understand. I believe you are worth every bit of effort folks have given to help you. You are clearly a man with a good heart and a heavy burden. It makes me want to cry a little bit, thinking of you taking your bottle off into the summer night to forget all about that part of you that wants more. But you know what? I don't think you'll be able to forget about that guy because you know he matters to people he's never met and can relate to every facet, stage, and emotion you are experiencing.

And I won't forget that guy either. I'll be over here pulling for him.

Love you back, dear friend I never met.

O
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Old 06-06-2022, 07:54 PM
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It’s good to have friends. So hang on to them while I’m honest about my feelings. (Note ‘I’ and ‘my’, I’ll get back to that later)

There is a feeling that you are a time waster. You say thank you for wonderful advice (as if you understand and take on board it) yet your actions are contrary.

It’s an opportunity to talk about the importance of honesty, generally and particularly for a dipsomaniac. Being an active drunkard by definition means being a liar. Most importantly lying to yourself. Few others except for unfortunate close friends and family are adversely affected by your acts of denial. But you resume a crawl towards madness or death by choosing to suppress your inner reality. You will suffer the most. Unfortunately children learn from parents about how to deal with feelings and who knows how that will go.



Anyway, ‘I and my’. I can let go of identifying with my opinions, advice and ideas so I’ll survive your time-wasting. Will you?

Wisdom is a knowledge in action, not something you read and cursorily think about. When you’re done wasting your time there’s work to be done.
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Old 09-13-2022, 12:42 PM
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Back to crack the ice here yet again.

When will I ever learn? At death?

Day 2
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Old 09-13-2022, 02:37 PM
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You came back. You haven't given up on yourself. A better life can be yours, FiveTries. I finally learned after 30 yrs. You can too.
Congratulations on your Day 2.
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