proudtobehere

Am currently on vacation. Love the relaxing mornings watching gameshows lol. Then I get serious and try to make my afternoon productive. Just need to skip the siren call every night at 7pm

BettyP

I had a couple of rough rough days just after Christmas with anxiety and depression - surely some situational, but also that creepy PAWS feeling - - like you're high on something terrible but you're actually sober so you have no idea when it's going to be over.
I hate exercising but I begrudgingly admit that it does help. Even the dreaded yoga haha - I know some people love it, I just normally get really bored. But I did some yoga classes on Zoom and felt much less anxious after. And a couple of long walks. Felt more like myself. So, I'm on a mission to create some of my own serotonin and dopamine through exercise - repair those brain cells mmmhmm.
My sponsor did point out that the really bad spells often give way to periods of opening up and growth, and I think she is right. After my bad days, my couple of evenings were the most normal I've felt since late summer when the PAWS started. It's like a brain growth spurt maybe?
However, PAWS still super sucks - just getting that out there haha.

EllyB

Sorry you had a rough couple of days. Mine is still really up and down. Exercise helps, but it is hard to get motivated sometimes. I have been walking, but not doing my yoga.I am fine doing yoga in a class with a good teacher, but I am struggling with YouTube yoga.
I am glad your sponsor “ gets” PAWS. I am still wary of AA. I know it can be good for a lot of people, but after all the work we did in rehab, I am kind of burnt out on introspection and making amends. The meetings do help though, and will probably try it out when in person meetings reopen. My IOP has 9 hours a week of Zoom meetings, and that is enough online recovery for me right now!

BettyP

I totally get that. I am a total AA skeptic and an atheist so it's not really my normal jam. What I have definitely gotten out of it is meeting other sober people who I can relate to, and who have been through the stages of recovery. It's been priceless to have people to call when I'm having a terrible day and think I cannot go on - they don't flinch, they've seen and heard it all, and don't treat you like a psych patient. But I will say - it is definitely a matter of finding the right groups/meetings. Some of them I've gone to have been so depressing that it's like "who is this helping?" When and if you start doing meetings, definitely shop around and find the people that you relate to otherwise it's not gonna be helpful.

EllyB

Just going to vent a little... I hate it when newly sober people talk about how happy they are that they don’t feel hungover anymore. I honestly feel more hungover now than most days when I was still drinking! Though my stomach is feeling better now, at least.

EllyB

I guess that’s one advantage of the Zoom meetings— makes it easier to shop around for a good meeting. I think just having good people to listen and talk to is key, and finding a way to do it my own way, without getting put off by the old fashioned language and the big G everywhere in the BB.

BettyP

YES to this. I was SOOOO resentful about people who feel amazing when they got sober when I felt so much worse. And it would also mess with my head - like I'd be like "this can't be alcohol withdrawal, everyone else feels so good!" Thank god for this thread and for the articles I've been able to read online about PAWS. I a million percent owe them my life because I was certain that I was going insane.
Update by the way after my couple of bad days I had some really GOOD days - like feeling almost totally normal -- best I've felt since the PAWS started, which is SO encouraging. Like ok - it really is going to get better!!

ant385

BettyP, It will get better. I guarantee it. But there will be setbacks where you feel going backwards before leaping forwards even further... do not despair when this happens. Just learn to surf the waves best you can. You can and you will defeat this.

i have just had a PAWS wave spawn from Mars which had lasted for like 2 months with a few good days dotted around in that time. I have just come out of the little bu@ger and feel soooo back to normal at the minute. Indestructible. But I am not naive enough to say I’m out of the woods just yet.

EllyB

Ant— sorry you are still having PAWs attacks! Have you ever seen the movie Mars Attacks? It’s a sci-do comedy from the 80s or 90s. Anyway, now I am thinking of PAWS as one of those fugly martians!

Graceful123

How is everyone holding up after the holidays?

I am feeling good. started this year off with some feel-good moments. But I can tell PAWS is kicking. I am a little bit on edge and kind of anxious. But the feeling comes and goes.

BettyP

I am feeling pretty ok. I had a string of good days this week where I felt almost normal, which was super encouraging. I have had a couple of "meh" days now, some anxiety with the weird unreal feeling, and some of the memory stuff. Like yesterday I completely forgot that I had already taken a shower and was going to take another shower - PAWS strikes again. I am just about to celebrate 6 months sober, and I think I'm at the turning point of where good days and bad days will start to compete (versus all bad days in the beginning, and then mostly bad days with some good days in the late fall). I'll take it? I would of course love to just be totally ok at this point, but I'm super encouraged that things are getting better in general and that I'm not permanently broken. Some of the very worst symptoms have started to fade or disappear all together. I can sleep well every night, eating is good, I have not felt nausea in the morning except for maybe one day in the past month - things are leveling out.
I heard a great speaker in an AA meeting last night who was much sicker in her disease than I was (was hospitalized and put in a medically induced coma for the first week of detox), and she described having her PAWS for a solid two years before feeling like she was "normal" - it was one of the first times I'd heard it mentioned in a meeting, so I thought I'd pass that along just for discussion's sake.
I hope you all are having some good days too! We can beat this thing - just don't pick up!

Graceful123

Wow, I thought my initial withdrawal was bad... I was nowhere near so bad that I'd have to be put into a coma..

Good on her for seeking emergency help. Could have ended much worse.

Question, did she specifically talk about PAWS? If so, what were the other takeaways from what she was saying about PAWS for you, other than the fact that she had it for 2 years?

BettyP

Yeah she had a really tough go of it. And by all accounts is thriving now, so that is awesome.
She didn't talk for very long about PAWS - just said that she was not right for two years. That even though she was sober in the beginning she still "felt drunk" a lot and her sponsor said that her first year she was "all over the place" mentally.
When she went to her last rehab, she had become homeless and was living in a hotel room. Ended up in the ER with a major infection of some sort. She'd been to rehab a couple of times before - so she had been pretty desperately sick for quite a while before getting sober.

drycucumber77

Hi everyone, I am seeing some new faces and regular faces here... I guess that is because we now have a part 2 of this thread which shows how popular and important this site is! I thought I would update everyone as it has been about three weeks I think. So here goes - I have now been sober since Dec 2019 - so approaching 13 months. Currently my brain fog has dissipated and my air hunger has lessened the last few days - where I am in the world has just seen an explosion of covid cases though and am now under lock down. So I've got super restless legs, some palpitations and weird dizziness with pins and needles... which I have not really had for six months and am pretty anxious and messed up, I've got a packet of clonazepam staring at me too...but I'm so paranoid that I think they might make me worse or make breathing harder again ect... Forgot to mention that I had another panic attack where I thought I was going to lose it for 5 minutes...I've got all the symptoms of anxiety still. I managed to quit smoking for two days and went on the gum where my anxiety did seem better - then there was a huge family episode and went back to the cylinders of sin! Pretty clear to me that I have some form of anxiety disorder or panic disorder...anyone else had this in sobriety? And does it go away? I have to say I do really miss drinking and how it acted as my crux...it was the one drug and I have tried a few that made me feel happy, good thing I am too wise to take a chance.

EllyB

Dry— Congratulations on 13 months sober!
Sorry you still have PAWS symptoms, though
The anxiety thing is really frustrating. I started noticing more anxiety in the last few months of my drinking, but it’s at a whole new level now. I think because it starts out as something physical, and then there is the add on...
I have been feeling achy lately, and my sleep is getting worse— from 7 hours to 6 most nights. Maybe more exercise will help with that.

Graceful123

Hey Drycucumber.

I'm very sorry you're having it this rough. I will say a few things that I hope will help you be a little more at ease:

All the research I've seen so far seems to indicate that it takes up to 2 years for PAWS to fully dissipate, which means you're only about half-way through. Some people on forums I frequent even indicated that it took them up to 3 years AND even small symptoms beyond that, so I wouldn't chalk it up to an anxiety/panic disorder just yet. If you're concerned it might be another problem, not just PAWS, I would definitely visit a psychologist. I would also be extremely wary of psychological diagnoses. Most psychologists are excellent at what they do, (I hope), but I'm quite certain some psychologists will try to put you on some sort of a mood pill that may hurt you just as much as alcohol did in the future (Again, I'm not a doctor or a specialist, this is just my thinking process as someone who is also going through PAWS). For example I read of people who were put on Benzos for their alcohol issues and they took it for too long, leading to withdrawals that (as they said) make alcohol withdrawals look like a walk in the park.


Now, I read what you said about Clonazepam, I'm not allowed to give advice so instead I would say what I would do if I had Clonazepam... If I were currently in a situation where I had any sort of Benzodiazepine by my side while going thru alcohol PAWS, I would certainly not touch it and in fact personally I would flush it down the drain. Again, that's just me, think of that how you will.

I found very recently that a lot of my withdrawal/PAWS mental pain comes from the place where I detoxed. I live in the exact same room that I lived in when I was going thru my withdrawals in July. And I mean I'm literally sleeping in the same bed that I was tossing and turning and sweating and "dying" (felt like it at the moment) in during those days of initial withdrawals. This room amplifies PAWS for me. I know this for a fact because I went to visit a friend over the holidays in a different city and I felt... almost normal. Barely any anxiety, barely any mood swings. Because it was a different place, place that didn't crawl with awful memories of thinking that I'm losing my mind and that I am going to die young. I'm not suggesting anyone here pick up and move (that would be silly of me), but I'm actually getting laid off from my work position this month and I've decided this is the best opportunity to pick up and move somewhere else that doesn't remind me of this place (it's an interesting situation because I actually took this job and moved to this city just so I could get away from everybody and detox, and now mission is accomplished, partiall, I am happy about this place in that it served it's purpose. I got away from everyone and detoxed).

My last PHYSICAL symptom dissipated a few weeks ago (that was morning dizziness when walking to work and general dizziness in open places). It seems to me that now it's a matter of waiting out the psychological symptoms. I still get bouts of mood swings (which suck) and depression during the day when I'm cooped up in my room and not doing something useful or socializing (which also really sucks). But those are getting better and better by the day.

I see the light at the end of the tunnel and I think everyone here will too, no matter how hard it is at this exact moment.

You are suffering longer than me because (I'm guessing) you drank for a longer time and your brain had more time to adjust itself to the constant bombardment from alco-molecules.

Also, props to you for the use of "cylinders of sin". That made me chuckle. Never heard that one before.

I apologize in advance if some stuff in my post comes off as a little bit rude, I am just trying to be straight forward as one PAWS-warrior to another.

Edit: I know we are here to comfort each other but I think each one of us can sometimes use a gigantic kick in the behind to straighten us out and ensure we're not picking up a bottle and that WE are winning in this fight against PAWS.

ScottFromWI

First off, congrats on 13 months - that is fantastic! Regarding the Benzo's I'd personally never touch one myself, they are basically alcohol in pill form in effect, and it's quick and easy to get addicted. Additionally, Benzo withdrawal ( if it were to get to that point ) makes alcohol withdrawal seem like a walk the park for some.

Regarding Anxiety, it is a very real thing, I am a diagnosed sufferer. And to be honest, many of the PAWS symptoms are one in the same as GAD. If you have never spoken with a counselor i'd highly recommend it, because if you do have GAD it doesn't just "go away". It's definitely treatable, even without meds for some. It took multiple years for my brain chemistry/anxiety/PAWS to return to some sense of normalcy - but it required work in all of those areas: Treating my addiction, treating my mental health and treating my physical health.

BettyP

After having a couple of good days last week I predictably have been going through a string of bad days. Yesterday - woof - one of the worst I've had in a while. Just feeling soo weird and off the planet. Depersonalization, dizzy, fearful, depressed. Had trouble falling asleep and staying asleep for the first time in a while, and then very vivid odd dreams. Woke up like "great, here again..." Really discouraged. I hope this gives way to other good days.
I've been reading some about diet helping people with the anxiety symptoms some. I know it's not a cure, but I'll throw anything at the wall to see if it sticks. I've read cutting way down on sugar and following maybe a modified paleo type thing?

Drycucumber - congratulations on 13 months! Quitting smoking is super hard and stressful and will trigger anxiety and bouts of anger and frustration - I've known several people who have quit and it's really rugged, so give yourself some leeway there. The stress of trying to quit smoking can definitely bring up some of the old anxiety feelings.
I would agree though that what you're dealing with can still be PAWS - I've read that a lot of people struggle for up to two years, which sucks. But I would definitely see a mental health professional (not just a GP) to talk about options for treating your anxiety symptoms - and, it could be both PAWS and an anxiety disorder -- and really, PAWS creates an anxiety disorder even if only "temporary" for most people. Benzos should be held off for absolute emergencies only - like if you really really can't wait out the wave and feel like you're not gonna make it. Most of the time the awful bit passes. I have a script for Ativan, but haven't taken any in over a month, and even last time I took any I took only half of a 0.5 mg tablet. The benzos activate the same receptors as booze, and you're trying to create your own balance naturally. So if you absolutely need it, so be it, but if you can get through and see if things get a little better, try not to take it.

EllyB

Anyone else get tight/achy muscles and flu- like feelings? Also all day tight headaches These have hit me really hard the last couple of days. I was actually worried that I had COVID for a bit yesterday, but felt better in the evening and at night, and don’t have any other symptoms....
My understanding is that the psychiatrist may prescribe gabapentin, which I am a bit leery of having to taper off of. Honestly though, I am so miserable that I am almost ready to pick up again, and at least gabapentin wouldn’t kill me like alcohol would. I really am struggling to function on a basic level. Yesterday a picture from last year’s Facebook came up, and I almost started crying— I was HAPPY then!

Sorry for the venting. Just sick and tired of being sick and tired at 3 1/2 months in. Can’t even imagine going 2 years like this.

BettyP

I get the tight achy muscles - it's like a heads up that I'm getting PAWSy. I also get tingling in my left leg and my arms get a different kind of tingly. Headaches absolutely. Sometimes the worst headaches of my life. Sometimes they feel like things are trying to connect if that makes sense? Sometimes they wake me up.

Don't apologize at all for venting - this is what this thread is for, we all have each other. I hear ya on the Facebook photo too - I can't even bear to look back at my memories when they come up because I am so resentful that I'm not happy and normal right now. This isn't forever, though - we have to remember that! It's not worth picking up and drinking again - you can't live life drunk, and eventually you'll have to get sober again and have to start all over from the top. My sponsor is good at reminding me - the first year is the worst but you only have to get through it once as long as you don't pick up. We know from all of these stories that people DO get through this and get better. Hang tough with me!