Daily check in for MIZZ . P
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
Mizz, just a reminder that the program AA offers is not found in the lingo. the lingo is full of snappy sayings, some of them encapsulating something much deeper and bigger, and a shortcut of sorts.
i have always found it useful to examine those sayings, see where they might come from, what they might be intended to convey, and how or if that is supported by the primary literature.
not trying to discourage you from adopting it, but wanting to encourage you to focus on the actual program, which uses none of those sayings but holds the offered solution.
i have always found it useful to examine those sayings, see where they might come from, what they might be intended to convey, and how or if that is supported by the primary literature.
not trying to discourage you from adopting it, but wanting to encourage you to focus on the actual program, which uses none of those sayings but holds the offered solution.
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Join Date: May 2012
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Originally Posted by fini 
Mizz, just a reminder that the program AA offers is not found in the lingo. the lingo is full of snappy sayings, some of them encapsulating something much deeper and bigger, and a shortcut of sorts.
i have always found it useful to examine those sayings, see where they might come from, what they might be intended to convey, and how or if that is supported by the primary literature.
not trying to discourage you from adopting it, but wanting to encourage you to focus on the actual program, which uses none of those sayings but holds the offered solution.
i have always found it useful to examine those sayings, see where they might come from, what they might be intended to convey, and how or if that is supported by the primary literature.
not trying to discourage you from adopting it, but wanting to encourage you to focus on the actual program, which uses none of those sayings but holds the offered solution.
Its all so much deeper. The program has helped many a folks. I stand corrected when I used "program" for lingo. Two different things entirely.
I have def been on this AA road a few times. I have worked the steps. I think I like to be a bit humorous and that "humor" is not easily conveyed when I write here. I do think AA is like being "programmed" but that doesn't mean that I am not on board with being "programmed"....."re-programmed" ..what have you. That is not the point you are making, I digress. Lingo and program are not one in the same. Your encouragement for the "program" makes sense.
Its funny how almost every person who speaks starts with the same wording, in the same format. Its An observation. I too will start speaking with this same wording and format. A structured way. It is about the program though and not the way we are going to speak through this
I have not read much of the Big Book since the Dr. Opinion this past week. Just attended the meetings and doing the next best thing. Sober. I may read a chapter today. Re-read what I have read so many times and maybe something sticks differently this time. Probably.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Surrendering. Let go and let god. Get out of my own way. Step 10. Sick as secrets. One day at a time. It works if you work it. Etc. Etc. Etc.
There is no way around this but to adopt all the lingo and dive right in to the format that has worked for millions of people. Is that right? Millions? Speak in the format. Reprogram myself. I am mildly resistant to this language and I am making sure that I do not find ways to talk myself out of this "program". My brain wants me to use different words.
There is no way around this but to adopt all the lingo and dive right in to the format that has worked for millions of people. Is that right? Millions? Speak in the format. Reprogram myself. I am mildly resistant to this language and I am making sure that I do not find ways to talk myself out of this "program". My brain wants me to use different words.
There absolutely IS a way through this without having to become a robot parroting AA slogans. None of that stuff (aside from Step 10) is in those first 164 pages. As fini says, there is a lot of depth (or CAN be a lot of depth) in those snappy bits, but you are not in any way obligated to speak the slang of AA. You also do not need to speak "with this same wording and format" Sure, it's our convention to say, "My name is O and I'm an alcoholic (or I'm in recovery, or I'm powerless over alcohol, or I gave up my right to drink)" and to close with some variant of "thanks for letting me share" or "I'll keep coming back," but even those things aren't required.
Every single one of the chips I've received thus far (I have plenty of Day 1s if you want one!) is inscribed "To thine own self be true." For me, that has been the single most important lesson in sobriety thus far. I'm ok and you're ok. We have work to do, for sure; it's the recognition of this that is part of our recovery. But just as important is that you are ok being you, MIzz. Don't make the mistake many people in and out of the program have made - it is most definitely not about the trappings.
Derringer,
Yes, I do have a busy head. Yes, I have taken the steps before. No, I will not enlarge on it.
Yes, I do have a busy head. Yes, I have taken the steps before. No, I will not enlarge on it.
Why not?
I, too, am interested in your previous experience - what worked, what didn't. You know, that sort of thing. I'll tell you one thing that didn't work for sure was being defensive. Not saying that's what you're doing, but maybe just a little bit you are? Just as you have no obligation to espouse the lore of the program, you have no obligation to answer to anyone here. But do remember that the vast majority only want to help. Derringer definitely falls in that category.
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Derringer and Obladi,
I am not sure how necessary it is for me to go into my past failures with sobriety and relapse? You know the rumination deeper thought stuff that I found very difficult to deal with and then subsequently relapsed 2 years ago? This is not what you are asking of me but some of it has to be told to get to your questions.
My other page was filled with all sorts of life stuff and honestly it sounds and is exhausting to think about. I just think that a barrier there is nice due to how active my brain is already.
Here it is:
I went into a rehab at 27 or 28. It wasn't pretty. Like going to rehab is a glam event? Anyways.
After Rehab I joined AA locally. Found a sponsor and worked the steps with her. Admitted I was powerless,. Believed I could be restored etc. Wrote down an insanely large novel of a 4th step and then went about to make amends (5th step)..Step 5 was the worst. (If I have a choice to tell my step 5 to a priest or some high level secret keeping person I will do that for my future step 5
I do not recall everything so clearly as this was over 10 years ago. I did move along with the steps but I don't recall how I felt or what was going on. Obvi, I wasn't restored to sanity! I know that I was sober for 8 months and then I was off to the drunk races. I did not do it right or I clearly wasn't ready for the old tried and true method.
The attempt up there is my only solid attempt at step work. I've been in and out of the rooms too many times to count. Didnt stick around. Felt like I can do this without a program. Sit and leave. Go to meeting and then think its not so bad. Take some numbers. Call some people. Back away. Drink. Drunk. hangover. Rinse. Repeat. This is the song that never ends! It goes on and on my friends.....la da da da da da la la la! ( I hope that song gets stuck in your head now!)
My third time at sobriety was a solo road and this forum. No step work. When I was feeling very low, close to a year sober, I went to one AA meeting. I was ******* miserable all around. It took me a few days or maybe a few weeks more to walk my miserable self to a store for a bottle of wine. Few days? Few weeks? All that time is a blur as well. That time is filled with a great amount of loss.
2 years later I have resurfaced out of the deep deep wine barrel to say "Hello, My name is Mizzuno. Im an alcoholic that prefers to not mention her name in an AA meeting and would rather be a black box for now. I'm ******* myself up on this alcohol. I cant control this. I need more help than just will power and this forum. Yes, I am ready to go to any lengths except jumping off a bridge!"
Drum. No laughs. Tough crowd.
This is way more than what was asked. WAY MORE! Thank you for reading.
I am not sure how necessary it is for me to go into my past failures with sobriety and relapse? You know the rumination deeper thought stuff that I found very difficult to deal with and then subsequently relapsed 2 years ago? This is not what you are asking of me but some of it has to be told to get to your questions.
My other page was filled with all sorts of life stuff and honestly it sounds and is exhausting to think about. I just think that a barrier there is nice due to how active my brain is already.
Here it is:
I went into a rehab at 27 or 28. It wasn't pretty. Like going to rehab is a glam event? Anyways.
After Rehab I joined AA locally. Found a sponsor and worked the steps with her. Admitted I was powerless,. Believed I could be restored etc. Wrote down an insanely large novel of a 4th step and then went about to make amends (5th step)..Step 5 was the worst. (If I have a choice to tell my step 5 to a priest or some high level secret keeping person I will do that for my future step 5
I do not recall everything so clearly as this was over 10 years ago. I did move along with the steps but I don't recall how I felt or what was going on. Obvi, I wasn't restored to sanity! I know that I was sober for 8 months and then I was off to the drunk races. I did not do it right or I clearly wasn't ready for the old tried and true method.
The attempt up there is my only solid attempt at step work. I've been in and out of the rooms too many times to count. Didnt stick around. Felt like I can do this without a program. Sit and leave. Go to meeting and then think its not so bad. Take some numbers. Call some people. Back away. Drink. Drunk. hangover. Rinse. Repeat. This is the song that never ends! It goes on and on my friends.....la da da da da da la la la! ( I hope that song gets stuck in your head now!)
My third time at sobriety was a solo road and this forum. No step work. When I was feeling very low, close to a year sober, I went to one AA meeting. I was ******* miserable all around. It took me a few days or maybe a few weeks more to walk my miserable self to a store for a bottle of wine. Few days? Few weeks? All that time is a blur as well. That time is filled with a great amount of loss.
2 years later I have resurfaced out of the deep deep wine barrel to say "Hello, My name is Mizzuno. Im an alcoholic that prefers to not mention her name in an AA meeting and would rather be a black box for now. I'm ******* myself up on this alcohol. I cant control this. I need more help than just will power and this forum. Yes, I am ready to go to any lengths except jumping off a bridge!"
Drum. No laughs. Tough crowd.
This is way more than what was asked. WAY MORE! Thank you for reading.
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,748
To be 100% brutally honest with myself and this forum:
I am so scared.
Scared that I will not learn
Scared of having many months sober and then another relapse
I'm frightened of myself and where all of this will lead if I dont get it. If it doesnt "stick"
The alcoholism has gotten worse and worse. Im so ******* scared of it.
I am so scared.
Scared that I will not learn
Scared of having many months sober and then another relapse
I'm frightened of myself and where all of this will lead if I dont get it. If it doesnt "stick"
The alcoholism has gotten worse and worse. Im so ******* scared of it.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
Mizz, you are right to be scared. and to not accept easy answers.
but the AA program really IS simple, which is great for busy heads. and you’re not the only busy head here, or there, guaranteed
i was sober a few years before i understood how miserable i was, and how the program with its offer of a spiritual solution was going to be just the thing. partly exactly because i didn’t want to. who the heck wants to to share their dirty secrets? who wants to go make amends??? meet the former ex-husband who they haven’t talked to in twenty years? contact others they haven’t seen in more than a decade? meet these people face-to-face and blahblahblah??
turns out i wanted to, though i surely didn’t want to (talk about busy head!).
by the time i got there, i was ready. prior steps had got me prepared.
and yes, of course step five can be done with anyone of your choosing. i did mine with a nun.
the BB advises good pondering on who to take it with.
so no, no need to buy into lingo, format and group-think about how it should all be done. of course no need to be rude about it, either in not necessarily following the latest format.
O and i have both had some challenges finding sponsors to help guide “by the book” instead of the current common format. but find them we did. and so can you, if you so desire.
as you move along, stick to the basic text if you decide you want to follow the suggested program, and it will show you the way.
if you want to go a different way, there are those to choose from also. of course.
and as far as digressing here in posts ? personally, i LOVE digressions all over the place. more like real human interaction, to me.
if you are willing to learn and open, you can learn. no doubt about it.
and if your pattern is to sit and leave, then back away and eventually drink, these are the things you can start with changing. sit and stay, go toward.
but the AA program really IS simple, which is great for busy heads. and you’re not the only busy head here, or there, guaranteed
i was sober a few years before i understood how miserable i was, and how the program with its offer of a spiritual solution was going to be just the thing. partly exactly because i didn’t want to. who the heck wants to to share their dirty secrets? who wants to go make amends??? meet the former ex-husband who they haven’t talked to in twenty years? contact others they haven’t seen in more than a decade? meet these people face-to-face and blahblahblah??
turns out i wanted to, though i surely didn’t want to (talk about busy head!).
by the time i got there, i was ready. prior steps had got me prepared.
and yes, of course step five can be done with anyone of your choosing. i did mine with a nun.
the BB advises good pondering on who to take it with.
so no, no need to buy into lingo, format and group-think about how it should all be done. of course no need to be rude about it, either in not necessarily following the latest format.
O and i have both had some challenges finding sponsors to help guide “by the book” instead of the current common format. but find them we did. and so can you, if you so desire.
as you move along, stick to the basic text if you decide you want to follow the suggested program, and it will show you the way.
if you want to go a different way, there are those to choose from also. of course.
and as far as digressing here in posts ? personally, i LOVE digressions all over the place. more like real human interaction, to me.
if you are willing to learn and open, you can learn. no doubt about it.
and if your pattern is to sit and leave, then back away and eventually drink, these are the things you can start with changing. sit and stay, go toward.
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posts: 517
Originally Posted by Mizz P
To be 100% brutally honest with myself and this forum:
I am so scared.
Scared that I will not learn
Scared of having many months sober and then another relapse
I'm frightened of myself and where all of this will lead if I dont get it. If it doesnt "stick"
The alcoholism has gotten worse and worse. Im so ******* scared of it.
I am so scared.
Scared that I will not learn
Scared of having many months sober and then another relapse
I'm frightened of myself and where all of this will lead if I dont get it. If it doesnt "stick"
The alcoholism has gotten worse and worse. Im so ******* scared of it.
I had a longish run, black-outs most weekends & hospitalisations in my mid teens, then 20 years of assorted carnage all attributable to alcohol & alcoholism.
He was the only guy in my group who had a longer run than me (some of the big chickens packed it in after an entire 4 years of drinking, those guys who are 40 years sober by the time they're 60 ... pfffffftttt) ... he'd been on heroin & all sorts, brought back from OD multiple times.
Between the 2 of us, we got it done.
Ultimately it came down to ... whats scarier ? Carrying on like this with raging alcoholism and all the nasties that come with it (the anxiety, the panic attacks, the vomiting, the diarrhea, the suicidal thoughts, the vital organs that are in early stages of shut down OR throwing down on taking the steps ?
If you drink like I did for long enough, sooner or later, all the things that scared me out of AA initially ... GOD, inventory etc, seemed like a piece of cake compared to how hellishly I was living.
It works if we work it.
Problem seems to be that the alcoholic ego rebuilds so damn quickly ... after a few months or possibly years of sobriety, we start thinking things like "I got this" & we drift. I've seen people do it & I did it myself.
Stick around this time
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,748
Derringer,
YES! All of what you said. YES!
The problem is the alcoholic ego that rebuilds in me. One of the problems at least.
Its not like I haven't seen this alcoholic story unfold time and time again. The same actions and behaviors on repeat being written in my "life" novel. Anyone who picks up the "The Adventures of Mizzuno" at the library will return that book immediately and ask for a refund (even though its a rental) due to chapter 5 through 10 being the same exact situation over and over again. Its like the printing shop just stopped at chapter 4 and said "Okay, We need to print chapter 5 through 10 a few more times. Make sure there is enough glue to bind this together!"
"Excuse me, Librarian? I would like a refund. This book is a ******* mess. I wanted to read about the adventures. Not about how Mizzuno was drunk for years on end and destroying herself over and over and over again! Why are there multiple chapters of 5 through 10? The printing shop made an error when printing. This book is a ******* waste! "
Librarian: "That is a rental, Sir! The life of Mizzuno is a sad story that really never went anywhere. There was no error in printing. She just ...she just couldn't. She wouldn't....It doesn't matter, lets find you something worthy of your time!"
Person: " Can you at least give me back the time I wasted reading this ********?
Librarian: "No, Sir. I should of warned you about the book. Its seriously underwhelming. I don't even know why we have this book here?"
The Librarian throws the novel in the garbage. She fixes her glasses on her face, thinks for a moment, and guides the person to "The Count of Monte Cristo"
"Now here is a real adventure for you to read!"
I am sticking around. Speaker meeting last night. I found the story to be very similar in terms of early life trauma, teenage drug and alcohol use, diamond in the rough kind of stuff. The meeting was good. I enjoy hearing how these people could of never imagined they would be happy and content but here they are HAPPY, CONTENT, CONNECTED!
Doing what I must do to stay sober for another day!
Thank you for being here, Ya'll! I appreciate all the words and the kindness.
Derringer, I do apologize for being short in response to you. Now that you have shared with me part of your story, I can understand your questioning.
Gotta run. (literally)
Attend meeting.
Go over the Dr. Opinion on zoom!
YES! All of what you said. YES!
The problem is the alcoholic ego that rebuilds in me. One of the problems at least.
Its not like I haven't seen this alcoholic story unfold time and time again. The same actions and behaviors on repeat being written in my "life" novel. Anyone who picks up the "The Adventures of Mizzuno" at the library will return that book immediately and ask for a refund (even though its a rental) due to chapter 5 through 10 being the same exact situation over and over again. Its like the printing shop just stopped at chapter 4 and said "Okay, We need to print chapter 5 through 10 a few more times. Make sure there is enough glue to bind this together!"
"Excuse me, Librarian? I would like a refund. This book is a ******* mess. I wanted to read about the adventures. Not about how Mizzuno was drunk for years on end and destroying herself over and over and over again! Why are there multiple chapters of 5 through 10? The printing shop made an error when printing. This book is a ******* waste! "
Librarian: "That is a rental, Sir! The life of Mizzuno is a sad story that really never went anywhere. There was no error in printing. She just ...she just couldn't. She wouldn't....It doesn't matter, lets find you something worthy of your time!"
Person: " Can you at least give me back the time I wasted reading this ********?
Librarian: "No, Sir. I should of warned you about the book. Its seriously underwhelming. I don't even know why we have this book here?"
The Librarian throws the novel in the garbage. She fixes her glasses on her face, thinks for a moment, and guides the person to "The Count of Monte Cristo"
"Now here is a real adventure for you to read!"
I am sticking around. Speaker meeting last night. I found the story to be very similar in terms of early life trauma, teenage drug and alcohol use, diamond in the rough kind of stuff. The meeting was good. I enjoy hearing how these people could of never imagined they would be happy and content but here they are HAPPY, CONTENT, CONNECTED!
Doing what I must do to stay sober for another day!
Thank you for being here, Ya'll! I appreciate all the words and the kindness.
Derringer, I do apologize for being short in response to you. Now that you have shared with me part of your story, I can understand your questioning.
Gotta run. (literally)
Attend meeting.
Go over the Dr. Opinion on zoom!
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
My Dear Mizz,
I had no intention of pointing the finger of blame at you, nor did I want to open a festering wound. But you know, if the wound is still festering, it bears examination and a new chance at healing.
(Watch out, I appear to be waxing metaphorical today.)
The intent of asking the question about your previous experience was more along the lines of, "I'd be interested in hearing your impressions of what worked for you and what didn't - so that I/we can possibly help you to work through the 'what didn't' parts. What I glean from your pained response is that no parts "worked." And that you think it's your fault because you say "I did not do it right or I clearly wasn't ready for the old tried and true method."
You know what? It could be both or it could be neither. I know there are those in rehab and in AA and in any number of recovery "programs" who seem to believe that if you put an addict through the recovery cookie press, each one will come out with the same delicious result. That is not my experience. If that 'worked,' then why didn't I get this right sometime during the damned near decade I was trying? My belief (and some may not agree with me, but it's my experience, so it's true for me), is that to be successful, I had to fight hard to internalize these principles. To continue with the metaphor, my dough wasn't right in the first place. I wasn't a religious person and still am not, and working through a program that feels religious in implementation was incredibly challenging. It felt to me like I most certainly was not Doing it Right; the magical incantations were not working for me, but they were working for everyone else? Why???
For me, and maybe for you too, it wasn't a matter of "doing this right," it was a matter of being true to myself. And that involved accepting myself at a very fundamental level. That's why I keep saying you're ok and I'm ok. I simply did not believe EVER that I was ok. Putting on the trappings of religion or the masses' implementation of the program was not going to do it for me. You can decorate all of the cookies the same and they can all look delicious and delightful in variety, but the bad cookie still "knows" it's a bad cookie.
My experience is that Derringer's second to last sign-off is the truest guide to success - "It works if we work it." The standard way of saying this phrase is of course that it works if you work it. A very common interpretation of this axiom is the reverse as well - if it doesn't work, it's because you didn't work it. Or you worked it wrong. False. The program doesn't work because you wear the right clothes, pray the right prayers, attend meetings, or are able to do a complete share containing nothing but AA lingo. (I've witnessed that on a few occasions and it is a site to behold, but otherwise meaningless to me.) The program works if you figure out a way to make it work for you.
The program, ANY way to recovery in my experience, is rooted in an obstinate and fundamental belief that all of that external stuff, including the stories I've learned to tell myself - none of that is me. None of that is about me. What is about me is that I needed to (and continue to need to) learn and practice compassion toward myself. Yeah, sure, finding that bottle of vanilla was unsettling and yucky, but it's NOTHING compared to the battle that used to rage in my mind. All of the time, incessantly, because I could not stand being with myself and my discomfort.
Not sure if that helps any, but there you have it.
xo
O
I had no intention of pointing the finger of blame at you, nor did I want to open a festering wound. But you know, if the wound is still festering, it bears examination and a new chance at healing.
(Watch out, I appear to be waxing metaphorical today.)
The intent of asking the question about your previous experience was more along the lines of, "I'd be interested in hearing your impressions of what worked for you and what didn't - so that I/we can possibly help you to work through the 'what didn't' parts. What I glean from your pained response is that no parts "worked." And that you think it's your fault because you say "I did not do it right or I clearly wasn't ready for the old tried and true method."
You know what? It could be both or it could be neither. I know there are those in rehab and in AA and in any number of recovery "programs" who seem to believe that if you put an addict through the recovery cookie press, each one will come out with the same delicious result. That is not my experience. If that 'worked,' then why didn't I get this right sometime during the damned near decade I was trying? My belief (and some may not agree with me, but it's my experience, so it's true for me), is that to be successful, I had to fight hard to internalize these principles. To continue with the metaphor, my dough wasn't right in the first place. I wasn't a religious person and still am not, and working through a program that feels religious in implementation was incredibly challenging. It felt to me like I most certainly was not Doing it Right; the magical incantations were not working for me, but they were working for everyone else? Why???
For me, and maybe for you too, it wasn't a matter of "doing this right," it was a matter of being true to myself. And that involved accepting myself at a very fundamental level. That's why I keep saying you're ok and I'm ok. I simply did not believe EVER that I was ok. Putting on the trappings of religion or the masses' implementation of the program was not going to do it for me. You can decorate all of the cookies the same and they can all look delicious and delightful in variety, but the bad cookie still "knows" it's a bad cookie.
My experience is that Derringer's second to last sign-off is the truest guide to success - "It works if we work it." The standard way of saying this phrase is of course that it works if you work it. A very common interpretation of this axiom is the reverse as well - if it doesn't work, it's because you didn't work it. Or you worked it wrong. False. The program doesn't work because you wear the right clothes, pray the right prayers, attend meetings, or are able to do a complete share containing nothing but AA lingo. (I've witnessed that on a few occasions and it is a site to behold, but otherwise meaningless to me.) The program works if you figure out a way to make it work for you.
The program, ANY way to recovery in my experience, is rooted in an obstinate and fundamental belief that all of that external stuff, including the stories I've learned to tell myself - none of that is me. None of that is about me. What is about me is that I needed to (and continue to need to) learn and practice compassion toward myself. Yeah, sure, finding that bottle of vanilla was unsettling and yucky, but it's NOTHING compared to the battle that used to rage in my mind. All of the time, incessantly, because I could not stand being with myself and my discomfort.
Not sure if that helps any, but there you have it.
xo
O
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
p.s. You might want to give a listen to some of the Joe & Charlie talks on youtube. I especially enjoyed one I found when I was debating over whether I needed to do a 4th step over again. I honestly can't remember why... maybe I'll give it another listen today while I take a walk.
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,748
O,
You didn't open a festering wound. You didn't point a finger of blame. You asked some questions out of curiosity.
I am not sure if the wound is still festering? I don't think it is. It's a time that had a lot of hardship and emotional upheaval. It is what it is. Im not thrown off my current trajectory when opening that door. I just didn't want to get to deep with it. To my surprise, I kept it short and sweet (even if it was actually long winded
Talking about the "program" that I worked over 10 years ago is a bit hard. Hard in the sense of not really remembering what happened. I was so much younger then. A mess of a person. Not at all who I am 12 or 13 years later.
It could be that I wasn't ready or that I didn't work it right. It could be that I needed more time out in the chaos....It could be a lot of stuff. How about its all and its all none of it? Either way, I am here and present and taking those steps now. Here and Now.
I do have some slight misgivings about my future... Some. Its been a long long road of back and forth. I've made a permanent foot path on "Mizzuno's Drunk Route" ....size 7 1/2.....Also a body indentation of when I decided to just lay down for awhile and give up.
Yes, accepting myself at a very fundamental level. ONE basic truth of myself is that I am an Alcoholic through and through. It cannot be taken away. It cannot be replaced. I am an alcoholic. Is that what you mean by accepting yourself on a fundamental level? I know there is more to it obviously, this fundamental stuff. Will you please elaborate on "accepting yourself on a fundamental level?"
This AA program will work for me. I know it will. It will work because I am choosing to make it work.
The meeting this AM was good. I was present the entire time. I read with my sponsor. I relate to almost everything in the Dr. Opinion. I do feel ready....
I am doing this!!
You didn't open a festering wound. You didn't point a finger of blame. You asked some questions out of curiosity.
I am not sure if the wound is still festering? I don't think it is. It's a time that had a lot of hardship and emotional upheaval. It is what it is. Im not thrown off my current trajectory when opening that door. I just didn't want to get to deep with it. To my surprise, I kept it short and sweet (even if it was actually long winded
Talking about the "program" that I worked over 10 years ago is a bit hard. Hard in the sense of not really remembering what happened. I was so much younger then. A mess of a person. Not at all who I am 12 or 13 years later.
It could be that I wasn't ready or that I didn't work it right. It could be that I needed more time out in the chaos....It could be a lot of stuff. How about its all and its all none of it? Either way, I am here and present and taking those steps now. Here and Now.
I do have some slight misgivings about my future... Some. Its been a long long road of back and forth. I've made a permanent foot path on "Mizzuno's Drunk Route" ....size 7 1/2.....Also a body indentation of when I decided to just lay down for awhile and give up.
Yes, accepting myself at a very fundamental level. ONE basic truth of myself is that I am an Alcoholic through and through. It cannot be taken away. It cannot be replaced. I am an alcoholic. Is that what you mean by accepting yourself on a fundamental level? I know there is more to it obviously, this fundamental stuff. Will you please elaborate on "accepting yourself on a fundamental level?"
This AA program will work for me. I know it will. It will work because I am choosing to make it work.
The meeting this AM was good. I was present the entire time. I read with my sponsor. I relate to almost everything in the Dr. Opinion. I do feel ready....
I am doing this!!
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,748
I was asked yesterday evening how I was doing with cravings? It was a surprise to my friend when I said "I don't crave alcohol."
This has been my experience thus far after resigning from the part time job of Wine Connoisseur at Chateau Mizzuno.
I am very grateful for the lack of craving.
Gratitude.
This word has come up time and time again.
I forget about this word and also the feeling of gratitude. I am very grateful for so much in my life. I think its important that I start to recognize all the "right" that is in my life. Be grateful for my life. Grateful that I made my way back to this forum. Grateful that I am taking different steps and approaches to being sober. All the beauty that does exist around me.
The therapist finally emailed back and she would like to talk to see if we are a good fit. I will then be on a waiting list. She has said "things are pretty wild here" ..... I'm going to research elsewhere.
Day 12! Sober.
This has been my experience thus far after resigning from the part time job of Wine Connoisseur at Chateau Mizzuno.
I am very grateful for the lack of craving.
Gratitude.
This word has come up time and time again.
I forget about this word and also the feeling of gratitude. I am very grateful for so much in my life. I think its important that I start to recognize all the "right" that is in my life. Be grateful for my life. Grateful that I made my way back to this forum. Grateful that I am taking different steps and approaches to being sober. All the beauty that does exist around me.
The therapist finally emailed back and she would like to talk to see if we are a good fit. I will then be on a waiting list. She has said "things are pretty wild here" ..... I'm going to research elsewhere.
Day 12! Sober.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Hey Mizz, it's a good thing, that no cravings stuff.
I'm wondering if that's something you experienced during prior quits? It's a concept I can't really get my head around because I never seemed to experience that phenomenon - at least not the way I sense other people have cravings. To me, after the immediate physical withdrawal was over, the return to drinking was more like a cyclone picked me up and dropped me in O's drunk land. At least that's how it felt at the end, there. I never experienced cravings for weird food when I was pregnant either; perhaps I'm just not capable.
Better yet that you are noticing gratitude all around. There's an awful lot to be grateful for when I put my mind to it.
What I mean by accepting myself at a fundamental level is simply accepting myself, as a whole being with foibles and idiosyncrasies and whathaveyou. Not even so much qualified by way of any ot those things or others, though. I don't need to say "even though" and I don't need to say "because of." I have worth just because I am. Now, my experience when saying something like that is that lots of people will either explain to me what I just said to you and tend to back up their agreement by citing my qualifications. They don't understand what I mean. I think most people don't, and I'm really glad for them that they don't. What I mean is that I have worth because I am. I never knew that, not deep in my bones in my very heart of hearts. It's so fundamental that I'm not sure I can explain it any better than that, but I can try:
If I were to apply the same to you (and I do), I would say "accepting you are an alcoholic" and deciding to do something about that is an expression of your worth. But it's not proof of your worth. What matters is you - the unique collection of everything that is you. For me, fully internalizing that concept is allowing me to learn how to connect in a more meaningful way, even without "doing" anything aside from expressing my me-ness and recognizing an honoring your you-ness.
Somewhere in that long tome of me at rehab is a place where I finally heard "It's not all about you, O" as a freeing concept rather than the accusatory "you're so selfish" way I'd always heard it before. It's not all about me, and I love that. Sure, I forget it every day, probably 100x every day, but I'm a work in progress.
Lookit you, right around the corner from TWO FULL weeks!
That is awesome, Mizz.
O
I'm wondering if that's something you experienced during prior quits? It's a concept I can't really get my head around because I never seemed to experience that phenomenon - at least not the way I sense other people have cravings. To me, after the immediate physical withdrawal was over, the return to drinking was more like a cyclone picked me up and dropped me in O's drunk land. At least that's how it felt at the end, there. I never experienced cravings for weird food when I was pregnant either; perhaps I'm just not capable.
Better yet that you are noticing gratitude all around. There's an awful lot to be grateful for when I put my mind to it.
What I mean by accepting myself at a fundamental level is simply accepting myself, as a whole being with foibles and idiosyncrasies and whathaveyou. Not even so much qualified by way of any ot those things or others, though. I don't need to say "even though" and I don't need to say "because of." I have worth just because I am. Now, my experience when saying something like that is that lots of people will either explain to me what I just said to you and tend to back up their agreement by citing my qualifications. They don't understand what I mean. I think most people don't, and I'm really glad for them that they don't. What I mean is that I have worth because I am. I never knew that, not deep in my bones in my very heart of hearts. It's so fundamental that I'm not sure I can explain it any better than that, but I can try:
If I were to apply the same to you (and I do), I would say "accepting you are an alcoholic" and deciding to do something about that is an expression of your worth. But it's not proof of your worth. What matters is you - the unique collection of everything that is you. For me, fully internalizing that concept is allowing me to learn how to connect in a more meaningful way, even without "doing" anything aside from expressing my me-ness and recognizing an honoring your you-ness.
Somewhere in that long tome of me at rehab is a place where I finally heard "It's not all about you, O" as a freeing concept rather than the accusatory "you're so selfish" way I'd always heard it before. It's not all about me, and I love that. Sure, I forget it every day, probably 100x every day, but I'm a work in progress.
Lookit you, right around the corner from TWO FULL weeks!
That is awesome, Mizz.
O
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,748
Got in my run and weights this morning. Attended my job. During my shift I experienced a tense feeling. A need to get out of the tense feeling and not knowing how I was going to do that?
I felt like I needed to escape that feeling. Pressure. Its like a pressure cooker in sense.
The only thing I have known to help when I get that tense is to drink. I didn't think of Alcohol as an escape today. I thought that I need to attend a meeting. That is the only thought I had. Attend a meeting when you get home.
I came home to the ritual of self care. Tea. Bath. Eat. Log on to AA.
I get to go to sleep tonight sober. I get to wake up tomorrow without the negative side effects of alcohol.
I get to learn how to work through this need to release or escape ( I have not found a way to describe this yet. It has always been present in my life. The "feeling" has been something I am very uncomfortable with and its ONE reason for using alcohol. Once I use alcohol that "tense" or "pressure" feeling releases.
I am grateful that I first thought of a meeting today. Alcohol is not an option.
Good Night, SR!
I felt like I needed to escape that feeling. Pressure. Its like a pressure cooker in sense.
The only thing I have known to help when I get that tense is to drink. I didn't think of Alcohol as an escape today. I thought that I need to attend a meeting. That is the only thought I had. Attend a meeting when you get home.
I came home to the ritual of self care. Tea. Bath. Eat. Log on to AA.
I get to go to sleep tonight sober. I get to wake up tomorrow without the negative side effects of alcohol.
I get to learn how to work through this need to release or escape ( I have not found a way to describe this yet. It has always been present in my life. The "feeling" has been something I am very uncomfortable with and its ONE reason for using alcohol. Once I use alcohol that "tense" or "pressure" feeling releases.
I am grateful that I first thought of a meeting today. Alcohol is not an option.
Good Night, SR!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,748
O,
When I get sober I do not crave alcohol in the sense of " A drink sure sounds good right now." What transpires is a series of events that become overwhelming for me. There is a mood or "feeling" that I need to escape the present reality in order to feel better. This "feeling" starts to take control of my entire being and I falter.
I also have experienced a separation of myself and the people around me. It should not matter what "other people" are doing. One could say I am surrounding myself with the wrong people or I was not steadfast in my resolution to begin with or...or ... or ...There is more to it and I need to think deeper about this separation I feel. I can say that I didn't accept the separation. I didnt think the separation was good. I dont think in those terms any longer.
What I have deduced, this go around, is that I did not have the TOOLS needed to remain sober. I had this forum and an incapability ( without judgement towards myself) to seek out more help. I honestly did not know how to "hear" what people were saying or "put into action" the suggestions given.
I was practically in a divorce from my marriage. Living alone in an apartment. I was working close to 14 hours a day at a job where the expectations were unclear. My mother in law committed suicide and one week after that suicide I was fired from said job. I found myself alone and in an apartment with an immense amount of grief. My head was spinning and fixating. I was feeling so many bad feelings. I could not get over it and I could not get through it. I drank a bottle of wine.
Now, one could say that all those reasons above should not be reason enough to drink. For me, all of those reasons and the truth that I am an alcoholic was enough reason to drink. I escaped into the one thing that I knew would relieve me of my "feelings" .... It worked. I was numb. I was high again.
Fast forward to two years later......
I really like the whole explanation of accepting yourself on a fundamental level. "Having worth because I am" makes sense. Having worth. Being worthy. Knowing that worth of yourself. Accepting yourself as you are without all the explanations and the "because of" or the "even though".....
I do think I understand.
I also relate to the cyclone. Being picked up and swept away. Dropped off at a destination that is all too familiar and filled with regret, shame and emptiness. That is what it is like for me.
Have a wonderful day, O.
When I get sober I do not crave alcohol in the sense of " A drink sure sounds good right now." What transpires is a series of events that become overwhelming for me. There is a mood or "feeling" that I need to escape the present reality in order to feel better. This "feeling" starts to take control of my entire being and I falter.
I also have experienced a separation of myself and the people around me. It should not matter what "other people" are doing. One could say I am surrounding myself with the wrong people or I was not steadfast in my resolution to begin with or...or ... or ...There is more to it and I need to think deeper about this separation I feel. I can say that I didn't accept the separation. I didnt think the separation was good. I dont think in those terms any longer.
What I have deduced, this go around, is that I did not have the TOOLS needed to remain sober. I had this forum and an incapability ( without judgement towards myself) to seek out more help. I honestly did not know how to "hear" what people were saying or "put into action" the suggestions given.
I was practically in a divorce from my marriage. Living alone in an apartment. I was working close to 14 hours a day at a job where the expectations were unclear. My mother in law committed suicide and one week after that suicide I was fired from said job. I found myself alone and in an apartment with an immense amount of grief. My head was spinning and fixating. I was feeling so many bad feelings. I could not get over it and I could not get through it. I drank a bottle of wine.
Now, one could say that all those reasons above should not be reason enough to drink. For me, all of those reasons and the truth that I am an alcoholic was enough reason to drink. I escaped into the one thing that I knew would relieve me of my "feelings" .... It worked. I was numb. I was high again.
Fast forward to two years later......
I really like the whole explanation of accepting yourself on a fundamental level. "Having worth because I am" makes sense. Having worth. Being worthy. Knowing that worth of yourself. Accepting yourself as you are without all the explanations and the "because of" or the "even though".....
I do think I understand.
I also relate to the cyclone. Being picked up and swept away. Dropped off at a destination that is all too familiar and filled with regret, shame and emptiness. That is what it is like for me.
Have a wonderful day, O.
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