ant385

Hello,
currently going through a bad PAWS wave due to alcohol. I do have Valium but rarely take one. Only when symptoms get really bad. I was wondering if taking one resets the clock on alcohol induced PAWS or is it ok as it is chemically different? I think the latter is the answer but just wondered if anyone has taken Valium for their PAWS and still recovered ok?
thanks,

biminiblue

Well, benzos in general are basically hitting those same receptors as alcohol...so for me it would be something I'd try to stop taking.

I was prescribed a benzo years ago and it does work, but it's also addictive.

As far as PAWS being "reset?" PAWS in and of itself is not a diagnosis. It's just a cluster of anxiety and other symptoms. Only you and your doctor can know if you actually need it.

ant385

thanks for your response. What I mean is I have to start from day 1 with healing from PAWS symptoms because I took a Valium as like you said it targets GABA like alcohol. I have read some have taken benzo’s when their CNS goes into red alert and still recovered but I’m just apprehensive of taking a pill I assume I’d be ok as otherwise how would people get through detox whilst taking them.

ant385

I will ask my DR but they don’t really get PAWS. It’s not been in their diagnostic manual so to them it doesn’t exist.

NYCDoglvr

You can't be high and sober at the same drink. I've heard Valium called a "dry martini". It's just another mind-altering substance.

ant385

I don’t take Valium to get high. I take it to calm my CNS down when it does nuts.

LazaB

That's not true, this whole "you can't take anything ever" attitude is just making it harder for people to quit, if he is not taking Valiums to get high and only to get through the panick attacks from time to time than there is nothing wrong with it.
I know that during my PAWS there was no other option a lot of times, it was either take a pill , get drunk or have massive panick attacks.

ant385

did you get through PAWS ok Lazab? The thing that scares me is when I’m having a panic attack is taking one will delay my recovery. I’m feeling a lot better now. Having a window. So no Valium for now .

LazaB

I think that Valiums would delay your recovery only if you are addicted to them , every time that i have tried to avoid the panick attack with booze the panick attack came back as soon as alcohol was out of my system, that was never the case with Valium.
I don't know how it might impact other people but it only helped me , whatever you decide to do just be careful.

ant385

thanks LazaB for sharing your experience with them. I’m probably being a bit paranoid but it is to be expected when you have been through hell. No one wants to substitute one addiction for another. I will continue to use them only for emergencies.

uncle holmes

Sobriety isn’t always easy! I’ve never taken Valium, but I went through a period where I Occasionally took a real small dose of Xanax Prescribed by a physician while in sobriety cause I had anxiety and anger issues, mainly from a job I used to work at!

My drug of choice was alcohol and I found the Xanax wasn’t addictive for me, unlike some other people! It did relieve the anxiety and anger but at the same time there’s no way I wanted that to be a permanent thing! Eventually that rough period faded so I just ended up throwing the Xanax away and decided I’m going to deal with life stone cold sober without any mood altering prescription drugs!

Staying alcohol free is the number one thing because I’m very much addicted to alcohol once I start! At the same time if PAWS ever hits in sobriety, and it can - even with long term sobriety - and if got to the point Where it was destroying my life - then yes - I would take a prescribed pill by a physician before I would ever take a drink! But only as a very last option!

ttamelbon

Hi ant,

As you may know, this is my second bout with PAWS. The first time was long and awful; this second time has been Dante levels of hell.

I quit drinking the first time and took nothing for over 1000 days, started drinking responsibly (actually responsibly) and then had a massive panic attack that convinced me I was going to die. Of course I quit drinking again, but I would get tachycardia, anxiety, and a host of other symptoms that were so strong that if I didn't take valium, I'd go mad. Actually mad.

I tapered down very quickly to 2mg valium and started getting shaking limbs, and extreme anxiety, high BP, etc. Doctor put me back up to 8mg/day. Did that for a month, dropped 1mg a week and lost 24lbs in about five weeks. I couldn't eat, leave the house, or even sit there without my feet knitting anxiously. It was an ordeal that would take a book to explain.

I'm now down to 2.72mg and reducing slowly. I do think it's delaying my recovery, but I think I couldn't have managed without it. As it is, even with a barely active dose, my life is precarious. I'm on a reduced schedule from work, my social life is on hold, and I have a very reduced quality of life. It's all improving, even with the valium, but I don't think it's beneficial to the healing process. It was a stop-gap.

Valium is involved with GABA and glutamate, but I have read it connects at a different area in the receptor, so it might not be resetting your healing per se.

I myself have been really reluctant to use a "rescue dose" of valium, and I haven't done so in about 3-4 months. My only direction is reducing. But it is tempting at times when you're feeling trapped by anxiety though I am terrified of being more dependent than I am, even at this dose.

So who could tell you if it's resetting your progress? I guess only you. Are you trending better despite taking the occasional valium? If so, it sounds like it's not so bad. Are you taking them more frequently or less frequently? If you're feeling better despite them AND taking them less often, maybe it's not resetting you. If you are trending better, are able to take them less often, and can maybe cut the 5mg pill in half, then it sounds like you're making progress despite it.

But all of this is subjective to you.

Best of luck,

Matt

Funki

Honestly, every single person on here I've read who still has killer paws after like 6 months, is taking some benzos here and there or consistently. It's been over 6 months since I took a short round of benzos to detox from alcohol, and the PAWS is 90% gone.

Benzos hit the same receptors as alcohol and also have very long half lives and detox arcs. Besides alcohol, I can't imagine a substance that could be less productive to healing those receptors.

Funki

Here's the thing, it has its uses for detox, primarily to stop people from having seizures and DT's while getting off alcohol. Then, ideally someone gets off them. They are "fine" only because the risk of dying from alcohol is more dangerous than taking benzos for 1 week or two. But then, for detox someone stops usually after that long, and then goes into full recovery.

Funki

Have you considered that you are also getting after effects and withdrawals from valium?

One of the sites Benzo Buddies talks about doctors and patients confusing problems from benzos for other problems that need MORE benzos, creating a "prescription waterfall" of more benzos.

ttamelbon

I had incredible PAWS for almost three years without any benzos. I relapsed slightly and wound up on benzos because I simply couldn't exist without them. I began tapering after the third day and when I got down to a very low dose, my muscles began spasming and I became a complete wreck of a human being. If I hadn't had them, I would've been in a mental institution. My body simply couldn't handle a second detox. I truly wanted to avoid benzos at all costs.

I've continued to make progress while reducing benzos. I can't say that they have helped my healing, but I likely would've killed myself from the torture without them.

It seems to me that you're suggesting that people won't get extreme PAWS for more than six months without benzos. That seems very unscientific to me. There's nothing wrong with discussing the negative effects of medications, but some people like myself would've lost our sanity without them. And I'll reiterate: I've outlined in these forums my extremely bizarre experience with PAWS for almost three years without a single benzo, but this second detox from moderate alcohol use was a level of hell where I couldn't avoid it.

While it's your implied opinion that people shouldn't take them during recovery, it might be detrimental to casually say unscientific things to people who could forego medication they need and pay a price for it.

I don't mean any offense, but I felt I needed to speak up.

ant385

Thanks to all for your responses. I think it’s good to discuss/debate on this topic generally as I am sure I am not the only person to worry about this.

I was aware Matt that you had to go through this a second time. I read your post on this and I am very sorry you have had to go through this hell once again. I think Matt, similar to me, you may have ‘kindled’ your brain. The fact you recovered, drank sensibly and then been flung head deep into the snake pit shows that your brain had started to downregulate your GABA receptors once again as soon as that first drink passed your lips. It may have not done it over night but possibly crept up on you gradually. I think the brain recognises the drug/alcohol again and thinks hey look who’s back... well I don’t need these GABA receptors anymore and throws them back out the window. I doubt this part of the brain will never correct itself. It can’t. It knows the chemistry of alcohol too well. It’s the same for me too with cigarettes. Even 5 years off I still may get a whiff of a cigarette and a mild fleeting craving will pass through my mind. I think it’s because somewhere deep in my brains chemistry it still recognises the drug - nicotine.

I think we are both best to stay away from the devils p@ss going forward. I certainly don’t want to go through this pain again a second time. Life is far too short and I have too many ambitions to accomplish before I die. The one good thing about this experience is 1) I will live life to the full when I am recovered. I want to travel! Whether for work or pleasure. I get this drive every time i have a window of relief and 2) it stopped me using alcohol anymore. I am best to learn the hard way!

The good news is that despite taking a couple of Valium tablets 2 weeks ago I am now experiencing a reasonable window of relief. A little brain zappy today but nothing serious. Onwards and upwards to us all!

ant385

Correction - doubt this part of the brain will ever correct itself.

BullDog777

I get what you're sayin, ant. You're not trying to replace booze with the Valium, it's to help you get through the really hairy s#!t.
In all honesty, that's between you and your doctor. If you are honest in your motives and use it on an as needed basis as a last resort, then I'd rather you do that than drink.

For most of us, drinking means death. We are not doctors and only they can properly diagnose you or treat you.

For me, I was very very addicted to that class of drugs. Robert Downey Jr. used to say that he could take enough pills to get the average person full. I wasn't far from that. I could take 200-300 benzos a week. Sometimes more, sometimes less. It depended on if it was something like Klonopin or Xanax or Valium. I was constantly switching back and forth between that and booze to try to curb the withdrawal. Big mistake.

I self detoxed from benzos about 10 years or so ago. I had multiple seizures, but i curbed it by drinking more. Then I drank like another 6 years and stayed off the benzos. By the time I was dragged into the ER a little over 4 years ago, I was dying. I spent a week in ICU and another 3 months in the hospital.

So drs. use benzos to curb the alcohol withdrawal. When I finally woke up, they were still feeding me benzos to keep my seizures away and to keep me stable. I was terrified. However, the drs told me there wasn't any other choice at this point. This was the course of action they were taking. So they tapered me off really slowly and I didn't get any issues like PAWS or PWS.

See the difference? Left to my own devices, I was killing myself with the benzos. With the drs schedule...it helped save my life. So...blah blah blah....I'm telling you this because I want you to be really careful. benzos are EXTREMELY addictive, but very necessary in most medical detox programs.

I think you're on the right path. I'm glad you're here and I hope you continue to hang out with us. The more we can talk to each other, the easier this illness is to deal with.

ant385

Exactly bulldog. I have done my research on benzo’s and know very well how addictive they are. I wish I had done the same research before I started drinking. I probably wouldn’t be typing this if I had done so. But we are where we are and I am very thankful to people like yourself for being so selfless with their support to people in their most desperate hour. I will certainly be hanging about SR going forward. When recovered I will certainly still check in from time to time and hopefully provide hope to the next generation of PAWS Warriors!