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"You know how you can’t control the drinks after the first drink, but you supposedly can control the first drink? I feel like by fantasizing about it so much I’ve been so close to the first drink that I’ve basically already taken it, so I might as well start drinking. I don’t know if that makes any sense."
You're rationalizing. Stop doing that. No, it doesn't make any sense to a sober person not overwhelmed by the AV because here's the thing - you can fantasize about drinking until you turn green but if you haven't swallowed alcohol - you haven't swallowed alcohol. P E R I O D.
You've accumulated over a year of sobriety. That's a lot of hard work.
Don't give in now.
You're rationalizing. Stop doing that. No, it doesn't make any sense to a sober person not overwhelmed by the AV because here's the thing - you can fantasize about drinking until you turn green but if you haven't swallowed alcohol - you haven't swallowed alcohol. P E R I O D.
You've accumulated over a year of sobriety. That's a lot of hard work.
Don't give in now.
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I'll piggyback off Dee here because he's made a good point.
You can control whether or not you drink the first drink, but once it's sloshing around in your belly - all bets are off.
You can control whether or not you drink the first drink, but once it's sloshing around in your belly - all bets are off.
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"You know how you can’t control the drinks after the first drink, but you supposedly can control the first drink? I feel like by fantasizing about it so much I’ve been so close to the first drink that I’ve basically already taken it, so I might as well start drinking. I don’t know if that makes any sense."
You're rationalizing. Stop doing that. No, it doesn't make any sense to a sober person not overwhelmed by the AV because here's the thing - you can fantasize about drinking until you turn green but if you haven't swallowed alcohol - you haven't swallowed alcohol. P E R I O D.
You've accumulated over a year of sobriety. That's a lot of hard work.
Don't give in now.
You're rationalizing. Stop doing that. No, it doesn't make any sense to a sober person not overwhelmed by the AV because here's the thing - you can fantasize about drinking until you turn green but if you haven't swallowed alcohol - you haven't swallowed alcohol. P E R I O D.
You've accumulated over a year of sobriety. That's a lot of hard work.
Don't give in now.
This is all a really good point. My point you commented on did seem kind of nuts. It’s amazing what the AV can make a person believe.
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Sohard, thank you for trusting me. I trust you too. Once your'e out of this blip, and have ignored the AVs challenge to your sobriety, by recognising and dismissing the drinking thoughts as pure AV, and therefore not YOU, the white-knuckling will abate and you'll regain control.
How do I know, because as I've said earlier today, I've been there. Addiction is universal, the AV is predictable. Once you disengage and stop entangling with it, by giving it airtime, whatever that takes for you, you'll find peace once more. I have faith in you, that you can break through this blip, as you once had faith in me.
How do I know, because as I've said earlier today, I've been there. Addiction is universal, the AV is predictable. Once you disengage and stop entangling with it, by giving it airtime, whatever that takes for you, you'll find peace once more. I have faith in you, that you can break through this blip, as you once had faith in me.
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You are a wonderful person and you do not deserve to punish yourself with the negative thoughts that will lead to self-destruction.
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You should have faith in yourself. I wish I had something really smart to say and helpful, because when I was having a really down moment, around day 50, you wrote a message to me that made all the difference. You gave the hope and support I needed to keep myself on track. Sometimes, help and love comes from the most unexpected places. However, the reverse is also true and we can get ourselves down from things we do not even notice.
You are a wonderful person and you do not deserve to punish yourself with the negative thoughts that will lead to self-destruction.
You are a wonderful person and you do not deserve to punish yourself with the negative thoughts that will lead to self-destruction.
Thank you everyone. I’m feeling a little bit better. Not a ton but a little, yet that is actually a big relief from where I was coming from. I’ll take whatever I can get.
I intentionally posted this thread in the Alcoholism forum, not the New to Recovery Forum, bc I didn’t want people in the early days to think it remains such a struggle. I know it really doesn’t. It has gotten much easier, but I guess for me there are still these weird deep dips that I still need to iron out. Because they’re soooo dangerous.
Obviously I know I can’t drink again. My last year of drinking I was definitely the worst I’ve ever been. And it started to scare me (although I probably should’ve been concerned waaaay earlier). I know I’m not the one and only unique addict who can restart drinking and have it be just fine. And I have to say, I’ll never get over how wonderful it is not to be hung over anymore. I basically consider myself a superhero for having been able to exist in the world hung over for 20 years. So I really don’t want to screw this up. I really appreciate all of your support.
Remind yourself of the horrors when you were quitting maybe? For me it helps to get mad at alcohol and the AV. Would it help to read back on the threads you have posted in the past for a reminder? We often forget why we quit with time.
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Hi Dee. Well, I’ve been on here A LOT, started my millionth book of the summer, worked on setting up my classroom a bit, and sent a couple work emails (not much work to do as it’s summer and I’m a teacher). I’ve also tried to actively not engage with my AV and to not debate with it. No point debating with a known liar, and I think our recent fierce debates have been wearing me down. Clearly, arguing with it isn’t working but rather is perhaps damaging, so I’m now moving on to trying to shut the thoughts down right away. I’m trying!
I was in a weird place after my first year too. Like I was working up to a huge accomplishment (the 1 yr anniversary) and when I got there, I was just kinda standin there wondering "What's next?"..."What the hell do I do now?" It was a time when I had to learn how to use all the tools I had been given my first year. This is how we survive.
I will share with you the best tool I got on how to stay sober when I was really questioning if I could do this anymore.
I had to learn to "Think the drink through" This meant I had to play the whole tape. From when I would take that first drink to when I was going to flatline from alcoholism. There was no other way. Death was my only way out.
So here we go..I get drunk. I start the cycle all over again. Within a week I'm back to scary drinking and then desperation hits when I start getting withdrawals again. I hurt my family and kids and ruin every good thing I've done in my sobriety. Then I have to look at myself in the mirror and admit that drinking was more important than anyone loving me. Because for me, when I drank...I was the bottle's b#$ch. My health starts to fail, I'm hemorrhaging money, my wife and family is terrified and I stop working. I stop doing anything but drinking. Drinking is now my life. I will do anything for drinking. I don't care what it costs me, I just want to drink until it kills me and then it will be over. Everyone who ever loved me will be in pain. My family will be devastated, my friends hurt, I'm just handing off all my bull$#it to someone else because I needed to be numb more than I needed to matter. And now as I lay dying....all I can do is blame myself and ask "what if I had just hung in for one more day?"
I will share with you the best tool I got on how to stay sober when I was really questioning if I could do this anymore.
I had to learn to "Think the drink through" This meant I had to play the whole tape. From when I would take that first drink to when I was going to flatline from alcoholism. There was no other way. Death was my only way out.
So here we go..I get drunk. I start the cycle all over again. Within a week I'm back to scary drinking and then desperation hits when I start getting withdrawals again. I hurt my family and kids and ruin every good thing I've done in my sobriety. Then I have to look at myself in the mirror and admit that drinking was more important than anyone loving me. Because for me, when I drank...I was the bottle's b#$ch. My health starts to fail, I'm hemorrhaging money, my wife and family is terrified and I stop working. I stop doing anything but drinking. Drinking is now my life. I will do anything for drinking. I don't care what it costs me, I just want to drink until it kills me and then it will be over. Everyone who ever loved me will be in pain. My family will be devastated, my friends hurt, I'm just handing off all my bull$#it to someone else because I needed to be numb more than I needed to matter. And now as I lay dying....all I can do is blame myself and ask "what if I had just hung in for one more day?"
Thank you. I really appreciate your words of support!
Thank you everyone. I’m feeling a little bit better. Not a ton but a little, yet that is actually a big relief from where I was coming from. I’ll take whatever I can get.
I intentionally posted this thread in the Alcoholism forum, not the New to Recovery Forum, bc I didn’t want people in the early days to think it remains such a struggle. I know it really doesn’t. It has gotten much easier, but I guess for me there are still these weird deep dips that I still need to iron out. Because they’re soooo dangerous.
Obviously I know I can’t drink again. My last year of drinking I was definitely the worst I’ve ever been. And it started to scare me (although I probably should’ve been concerned waaaay earlier). I know I’m not the one and only unique addict who can restart drinking and have it be just fine. And I have to say, I’ll never get over how wonderful it is not to be hung over anymore. I basically consider myself a superhero for having been able to exist in the world hung over for 20 years. So I really don’t want to screw this up. I really appreciate all of your support.
Thank you everyone. I’m feeling a little bit better. Not a ton but a little, yet that is actually a big relief from where I was coming from. I’ll take whatever I can get.
I intentionally posted this thread in the Alcoholism forum, not the New to Recovery Forum, bc I didn’t want people in the early days to think it remains such a struggle. I know it really doesn’t. It has gotten much easier, but I guess for me there are still these weird deep dips that I still need to iron out. Because they’re soooo dangerous.
Obviously I know I can’t drink again. My last year of drinking I was definitely the worst I’ve ever been. And it started to scare me (although I probably should’ve been concerned waaaay earlier). I know I’m not the one and only unique addict who can restart drinking and have it be just fine. And I have to say, I’ll never get over how wonderful it is not to be hung over anymore. I basically consider myself a superhero for having been able to exist in the world hung over for 20 years. So I really don’t want to screw this up. I really appreciate all of your support.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g2JN2PrHJg
Last edited by Dee74; 08-03-2020 at 05:07 PM.
SoDear, I'm glad you posted here. Sorry i missed you yesterday, but I see the A-Team arrived to hold you up, so that's a good thing! Look at all these folks that not only have faith in you, but they understand how it feels to be in the place you are. I don't have much more to offer, but will happily share what I've learned for myself in the hope that it might help you a little.
About that AV. It's good you decided not to listen any more. Maybe I'm making it up, but it kind of sounds to me like you've put the pillow over your head to shut it out. Only problem, of course, is that It's right in there with you. The AV tries to get at me too, but I remember that it's not really the AV that wants - it's the beast. As long as I effectively keep the beast outside my house, the AV is really useless. I can't hear it, you know? If I listened real hard I could, but it would just be playing the same well-worn record over and over again. Sometimes backwards, sometimes at 75RPM instead of 45, but it's still the same tune. No need to listen to that, so I just disregard it. I'm not sure how to describe the feeling - the best I can think of is that I'm indifferent to it. There's no need to grit my teeth because I simply don't care what it has to say.
That uncomfortable feeling you're feeling, though? In my (admittedly limited) experience, that is what needs attention. And the best way to pay attention to it is to, ironically enough, just sit with it. Notice how it feels without judging it. See if you can figure out what thoughts or beliefs are behind that feeling and what the deep-down origin of those thoughts are. You offered a lot of plausible reasons, but I'd submit that you haven't really found what it is because you're still terribly uncomfortable. You've probably read elsewhere about the laborious process I go through when I get a feeling like that. It's really hard, but every time I am able to get right down to the bottom of what I'm feeling-thinking-believing and I look it square in the eye, it's a relief. I reliably come out of the exercise thinking, "Is that what this is about? Well, I can handle that!" I'm not sure what it is for you, but for me, it's fear based in family of origin stuff. Every. Single. Time.
I agree with fini and dwtbd too. It's probably time to renew your contract, up your goal, set a new milestone. Set your sights on two years if a lifetime is too long.
xo
O
About that AV. It's good you decided not to listen any more. Maybe I'm making it up, but it kind of sounds to me like you've put the pillow over your head to shut it out. Only problem, of course, is that It's right in there with you. The AV tries to get at me too, but I remember that it's not really the AV that wants - it's the beast. As long as I effectively keep the beast outside my house, the AV is really useless. I can't hear it, you know? If I listened real hard I could, but it would just be playing the same well-worn record over and over again. Sometimes backwards, sometimes at 75RPM instead of 45, but it's still the same tune. No need to listen to that, so I just disregard it. I'm not sure how to describe the feeling - the best I can think of is that I'm indifferent to it. There's no need to grit my teeth because I simply don't care what it has to say.
That uncomfortable feeling you're feeling, though? In my (admittedly limited) experience, that is what needs attention. And the best way to pay attention to it is to, ironically enough, just sit with it. Notice how it feels without judging it. See if you can figure out what thoughts or beliefs are behind that feeling and what the deep-down origin of those thoughts are. You offered a lot of plausible reasons, but I'd submit that you haven't really found what it is because you're still terribly uncomfortable. You've probably read elsewhere about the laborious process I go through when I get a feeling like that. It's really hard, but every time I am able to get right down to the bottom of what I'm feeling-thinking-believing and I look it square in the eye, it's a relief. I reliably come out of the exercise thinking, "Is that what this is about? Well, I can handle that!" I'm not sure what it is for you, but for me, it's fear based in family of origin stuff. Every. Single. Time.
I agree with fini and dwtbd too. It's probably time to renew your contract, up your goal, set a new milestone. Set your sights on two years if a lifetime is too long.
xo
O
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Thanks everyone for your notes of support. I really appreciate it.
I'm doing okay (which, given where I was coming from, is terrific). I don't know why I get SO CLOSE sometimes. Then, it's like I'm fine for weeks, until....it happens again.
Obladi, I think you're right. A new goal is 100% necessary for me. I wish I could be the type that would now say "a lifetime of sobriety" is the goal, but I'm not that type.I can see why that is healthier than just shooting for a shorter date, but picking a shorter date then forever allows me to relax and and think "this is no big deal". So, since I'm at 456 now, I'm shooting for 500. That I know I can accomplish no big deal. So now I can breathe and relax. Not saying "forever" allows me to stop white knuckling. It's just how my brain works, I guess. Of course, this time I need to be on the ball when I reach my goal. This time I will be prepared to automatically set a new goal. Kicking the ball farther and farther down the field.
Dropsy, thanks for checking in. It's strange, but having this pact with you really does help. It's funny how that works, but it really does. So, thank you for that.
Bulldog, I like the idea of really playing everything out. For me, if I drank tonight, I'd enjoy myself (being numb) a lot. Then, I'd wake up like WTF?!?! I'd drink tomorrow, because I'd figure, I might as well enjoy being off the wagon while I'm off the wagon. I'd stay in and drink every night, never out with friends or coworkers, because I know I might do something foolish/embarrassing and perhaps black out. In social settings or when visiting my family, I could never drink, because now that I have no tolerance I'd get wasted right away since I would go back to drinking the same as I did before I ever quit. So, while I can go to those events now and be amongst society, I would have to stop going out all together and seeing people if I started drinking. It would be too dangerous. Eventually, not far down the line (a month, tops), I'd break at one of these events and decide to drink "just two" (I wouldn't even lie to myself that I could have one). But, two, of course, would never happen. Instead, I'd do something and put my life and perhaps someone else's life on the line. I might end up dead. Or in jail. Or paralyzed. My life ruined. My mom and sister and niece and nephew devastated. I would be a weight on all of their lives forever, whether I was dead or alive.
So, I better not start drinking. Sure, being sober might be hard at times, but drinking is hard almost all of the time. And it's putting other people's lives and happiness on the line. How dare I think I have that right. It's beyond selfish and disgusting.
So, I am where I am. I feel like I'm slowly climbing out of the hole. I am now trying to get back to where I've been at times where I thought - "This is awesome, I don't have to drink!" I'm not there yet, but I've decided to throw myself a bone and at least say that it's possible I'll get there. Why can't I feel that way again? Who says I can't? (I got that from you, Dee. ) I just have to keep working towards it.
Anyway, just my thoughts for today. Thanks for "listening".
I'm doing okay (which, given where I was coming from, is terrific). I don't know why I get SO CLOSE sometimes. Then, it's like I'm fine for weeks, until....it happens again.
Obladi, I think you're right. A new goal is 100% necessary for me. I wish I could be the type that would now say "a lifetime of sobriety" is the goal, but I'm not that type.I can see why that is healthier than just shooting for a shorter date, but picking a shorter date then forever allows me to relax and and think "this is no big deal". So, since I'm at 456 now, I'm shooting for 500. That I know I can accomplish no big deal. So now I can breathe and relax. Not saying "forever" allows me to stop white knuckling. It's just how my brain works, I guess. Of course, this time I need to be on the ball when I reach my goal. This time I will be prepared to automatically set a new goal. Kicking the ball farther and farther down the field.
Dropsy, thanks for checking in. It's strange, but having this pact with you really does help. It's funny how that works, but it really does. So, thank you for that.
Bulldog, I like the idea of really playing everything out. For me, if I drank tonight, I'd enjoy myself (being numb) a lot. Then, I'd wake up like WTF?!?! I'd drink tomorrow, because I'd figure, I might as well enjoy being off the wagon while I'm off the wagon. I'd stay in and drink every night, never out with friends or coworkers, because I know I might do something foolish/embarrassing and perhaps black out. In social settings or when visiting my family, I could never drink, because now that I have no tolerance I'd get wasted right away since I would go back to drinking the same as I did before I ever quit. So, while I can go to those events now and be amongst society, I would have to stop going out all together and seeing people if I started drinking. It would be too dangerous. Eventually, not far down the line (a month, tops), I'd break at one of these events and decide to drink "just two" (I wouldn't even lie to myself that I could have one). But, two, of course, would never happen. Instead, I'd do something and put my life and perhaps someone else's life on the line. I might end up dead. Or in jail. Or paralyzed. My life ruined. My mom and sister and niece and nephew devastated. I would be a weight on all of their lives forever, whether I was dead or alive.
So, I better not start drinking. Sure, being sober might be hard at times, but drinking is hard almost all of the time. And it's putting other people's lives and happiness on the line. How dare I think I have that right. It's beyond selfish and disgusting.
So, I am where I am. I feel like I'm slowly climbing out of the hole. I am now trying to get back to where I've been at times where I thought - "This is awesome, I don't have to drink!" I'm not there yet, but I've decided to throw myself a bone and at least say that it's possible I'll get there. Why can't I feel that way again? Who says I can't? (I got that from you, Dee. ) I just have to keep working towards it.
Anyway, just my thoughts for today. Thanks for "listening".
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