I dont get it
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Originally Posted by Garen 
When I think back to my first drink all I remember is that it felt like heaven.
Trying to use logic to understand addiction is pointless: if choice or insight was all that was required to get sober, there would be no need for SR, AA, and all the other ways that people use to quit drinking. At most AA meetings, people introduce themselves by their first name and qualify their presence in the room using the present tense. As in, "My name is Eddie and I am an alcoholic." The truth is, I haven't had a drink since Dec 2009. But that doesn't make me any less an alcoholic, and I am convinced that if I were ever to attempt "normal" drinking I would fail. Why? Because I have never been interested in normal drinking, and though I didn't pass out or get sick every time I drank, I most definitely tried to recapture the feeling it gave my 12 year old self. Despite decades of evidence to the contrary, I kept trying. This is the foundation on which addiction is built: denial. Until I was able to accept my addiction without reservation or try to paper over the truth with some lame attempt at moderation, I remained an active alcoholic.
Accepting powerlessness over our addiction is not a weak surrender to victimhood, it is a conscious decision to stop the Sisyphean existence of trying to drink normally. It does not need logic or reason to support it, only acceptance. Once you accept that path as no longer an option, you have the opportunity to go another way. I was fortunate to have survived long enough to surrender, and I hope that you get to that place too.
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Because for me, I managed to fix things while still keeping my drinking habit, even though my drinking created a lot of problems to begin with.
It was only by working on my problem, that I slowly over time discovered that I had other problems that led to "my problem". It was a Gordian knot, but untying it has been so rewarding and well worth the time and effort expended.
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Posts: 137
Originally Posted by Eddiebuckle
Amen to that. It was an incredible experience, and I was only 12. Later that night my parents had to carry me into the house after passing out and later getting sick on the front lawn. And all I remember is how great it felt, and I chased that feeling for 30 years.
Trying to use logic to understand addiction is pointless: if choice or insight was all that was required to get sober, there would be no need for SR, AA, and all the other ways that people use to quit drinking. At most AA meetings, people introduce themselves by their first name and qualify their presence in the room using the present tense. As in, "My name is Eddie and I am an alcoholic." The truth is, I haven't had a drink since Dec 2009. But that doesn't make me any less an alcoholic, and I am convinced that if I were ever to attempt "normal" drinking I would fail. Why? Because I have never been interested in normal drinking, and though I didn't pass out or get sick every time I drank, I most definitely tried to recapture the feeling it gave my 12 year old self. Despite decades of evidence to the contrary, I kept trying. This is the foundation on which addiction is built: denial. Until I was able to accept my addiction without reservation or try to paper over the truth with some lame attempt at moderation, I remained an active alcoholic.
Accepting powerlessness over our addiction is not a weak surrender to victimhood, it is a conscious decision to stop the Sisyphean existence of trying to drink normally. It does not need logic or reason to support it, only acceptance. Once you accept that path as no longer an option, you have the opportunity to go another way. I was fortunate to have survived long enough to surrender, and I hope that you get to that place too.
Trying to use logic to understand addiction is pointless: if choice or insight was all that was required to get sober, there would be no need for SR, AA, and all the other ways that people use to quit drinking. At most AA meetings, people introduce themselves by their first name and qualify their presence in the room using the present tense. As in, "My name is Eddie and I am an alcoholic." The truth is, I haven't had a drink since Dec 2009. But that doesn't make me any less an alcoholic, and I am convinced that if I were ever to attempt "normal" drinking I would fail. Why? Because I have never been interested in normal drinking, and though I didn't pass out or get sick every time I drank, I most definitely tried to recapture the feeling it gave my 12 year old self. Despite decades of evidence to the contrary, I kept trying. This is the foundation on which addiction is built: denial. Until I was able to accept my addiction without reservation or try to paper over the truth with some lame attempt at moderation, I remained an active alcoholic.
Accepting powerlessness over our addiction is not a weak surrender to victimhood, it is a conscious decision to stop the Sisyphean existence of trying to drink normally. It does not need logic or reason to support it, only acceptance. Once you accept that path as no longer an option, you have the opportunity to go another way. I was fortunate to have survived long enough to surrender, and I hope that you get to that place too.
There have been other challenges that I have overcome with struggle, but logic has helped me. Like mathematics, I failed as a child, but as an adult I took classes and now math is easy. But drinking is a different problem. I have tried so many problems that appeals to logic, improving my life, cleaning up, carrying myself with a bit more pride, opening my mail and paying my bills, things that make a man more confident.
I feel like I am close. But I am still not there yet.
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Originally Posted by nez
By outward appearances, I had everything together when I was drinking and there was nothing that needed to be fixed. I was the owner of a successful business. I had never been fired from a job. I paid my bills. I had a roof over my head. I had no jail time. No DUIs. I was married and had with no failed marriages in my past. But deep down inside, I knew I had a problem. And that problem was my drinking. I mean, I had a good life. A life that a lot of people would have envied and yet I was still drinking. I felt so stupid.
It was only by working on my problem, that I slowly over time discovered that I had other problems that led to "my problem". It was a Gordian knot, but untying it has been so rewarding and well worth the time and effort expended.
It was only by working on my problem, that I slowly over time discovered that I had other problems that led to "my problem". It was a Gordian knot, but untying it has been so rewarding and well worth the time and effort expended.
So when I go home I think less highly. I have been trying to find some hobbies. One thing I like is animals. I wanted to raise own an Owl, but I can't do that legally. Sometimes I save cats and find them homes. Also I can have cattle in Texas we have good land for cattle.
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Drinking is illogical so trying solve it with logic is going nowhere fast. I drank to relax, so why did my drinking cause me anxiety. I drank to make things go away, but they when I sobered up, they were still there. The illogical thinking went on and on.
The first time I went cold turkey, I had a seizure from acute alcohol withdrawal which can be fatal without prompt medical attention. Not only that but I almost impaled myself through my eye socket on a wrought iron fence. I got an ambulance ride to the ER, IVs in the arms, administered drugs, hospital stay, the whole enchilada. Logic would tell me that I was not ever going to do that and go through that again, so don't drink. But oh no, not me, I was drinking again in less than two weeks. For an alcoholic, that was logical.
In order to get sober and stay sober, I had to do things which are illogical to an alcoholic...like not drink.
The first time I went cold turkey, I had a seizure from acute alcohol withdrawal which can be fatal without prompt medical attention. Not only that but I almost impaled myself through my eye socket on a wrought iron fence. I got an ambulance ride to the ER, IVs in the arms, administered drugs, hospital stay, the whole enchilada. Logic would tell me that I was not ever going to do that and go through that again, so don't drink. But oh no, not me, I was drinking again in less than two weeks. For an alcoholic, that was logical.
In order to get sober and stay sober, I had to do things which are illogical to an alcoholic...like not drink.
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Originally Posted by nez
Drinking is illogical so trying solve it with logic is going nowhere fast. I drank to relax, so why did my drinking cause me anxiety. I drank to make things go away, but they when I sobered up, they were still there. The illogical thinking went on and on.
The first time I went cold turkey, I had a seizure from acute alcohol withdrawal which can be fatal without prompt medical attention. Not only that but I almost impaled myself through my eye socket on a wrought iron fence. I got an ambulance ride to the ER, IVs in the arms, administered drugs, hospital stay, the whole enchilada. Logic would tell me that I was not ever going to do that and go through that again, so don't drink. But oh no, not me, I was drinking again in less than two weeks. For an alcoholic, that was logical.
In order to get sober and stay sober, I had to do things which are illogical to an alcoholic...like not drink.
The first time I went cold turkey, I had a seizure from acute alcohol withdrawal which can be fatal without prompt medical attention. Not only that but I almost impaled myself through my eye socket on a wrought iron fence. I got an ambulance ride to the ER, IVs in the arms, administered drugs, hospital stay, the whole enchilada. Logic would tell me that I was not ever going to do that and go through that again, so don't drink. But oh no, not me, I was drinking again in less than two weeks. For an alcoholic, that was logical.
In order to get sober and stay sober, I had to do things which are illogical to an alcoholic...like not drink.
I understand the answer to my problem is to just not drink. But I've been trying to not drink since like my late 20s. I know I can do it. I can. But everything up until now has failed or I wouldn't be here. I would be out taking a walk or sleeping, or enjoying the company of a good woman.
In the morning I will be dead set on NOT DRINKING. Then by afternoon some kind of anxiety sets in, almost like a fear. This only happens when I am not working. When I am working nothing happens at all and drinking never happens.
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I've been trying to not drink since like my late 20s. I know I can do it. I can. But everything up until now has failed
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For me, it was about acceptance in my soul that every time I drank it would be the same as the last eventually or as Dee says, abstinence is not control.
And the fact that it took me so long to get it despite what I went through is amazing in hindsight.
It truly was a decision to quit and to never quit the decision. If you say it, you will feel the difference to say "I am going to stop drinking" is easy, to say "I am going to stop drinking and I will never drink again" makes us feel worried.
But once I decided the latter it became easier becuase I had decided it was just a quesiton of how to keep to my decision. Simple but not easy.
I really liked your posts and hope you will stick with us.
I stopped using only this place for support.
You got this if you really want it.
And the fact that it took me so long to get it despite what I went through is amazing in hindsight.
It truly was a decision to quit and to never quit the decision. If you say it, you will feel the difference to say "I am going to stop drinking" is easy, to say "I am going to stop drinking and I will never drink again" makes us feel worried.
But once I decided the latter it became easier becuase I had decided it was just a quesiton of how to keep to my decision. Simple but not easy.
I really liked your posts and hope you will stick with us.
I stopped using only this place for support.
You got this if you really want it.
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Originally Posted by nez
When you are not working and the afternoon rolls around and anxiety sets in and you think about drinking, before you up a drink, log in here first and post what is going on.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Several things that you said stood out, so let me address them. You said "I understand the answer to my problem is to just not drink".
I respectfully disagree. You must address a number of different problems to reach the GOAL of not taking a drink. In the beginning you will need to address withdrawl symptoms and after that PAWS. These are in large part physiological /biological difficulties to be overcome.
Fortunately you have already had some success with this.
Next you have a problem with "some kind of anxiety (that) sets in, almost like a fear". The nature of that fear
will be central to dealing with challenges in the early and medium term or approx. the first 18 months after you stop. Getting into some psychotherapy could be quite useful in this regard.
Finally, you show more than the usual amount of insight regarding a possible long term challenge to your sobriety. You said "logic has helped me ...... but drinking is a different problem". Yes, for many of us this is SO true. Long term sobriety, for us is, in a sense, a search for wholeness..
Carl Jung told a founder of Alcoholics Anonymous this wholeness "can only happen to you when you walk on a path which leads you to higher understanding", with one of these paths being "a higher education of the mind beyond the confines of mere rationalism".
All the best to you Garen
I respectfully disagree. You must address a number of different problems to reach the GOAL of not taking a drink. In the beginning you will need to address withdrawl symptoms and after that PAWS. These are in large part physiological /biological difficulties to be overcome.
Fortunately you have already had some success with this.
Next you have a problem with "some kind of anxiety (that) sets in, almost like a fear". The nature of that fear
will be central to dealing with challenges in the early and medium term or approx. the first 18 months after you stop. Getting into some psychotherapy could be quite useful in this regard.
Finally, you show more than the usual amount of insight regarding a possible long term challenge to your sobriety. You said "logic has helped me ...... but drinking is a different problem". Yes, for many of us this is SO true. Long term sobriety, for us is, in a sense, a search for wholeness..
Carl Jung told a founder of Alcoholics Anonymous this wholeness "can only happen to you when you walk on a path which leads you to higher understanding", with one of these paths being "a higher education of the mind beyond the confines of mere rationalism".
All the best to you Garen
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Good to "see" you, Awuh.
Garen, I agree that getting engaged here (or somewhere) is a very important step in ongoing sobriety.
Early days are full of anxiety. Part of that is physical withdrawal, and then there's that ever-present thought that, "A drink would make this go away." Every nerve in my body was on high-alert in early days. For about the first ten days I wanted to crawl out of my own skin. So uncomfortable. So difficult. I was going to AA meetings in the beginning and that helped a lot. I was able to compare my inner thoughts to the thoughts of people who were in recovery - and even though I thought I had it all together, a few meetings showed me just how off I was in my regular daily thinking. Early days are really confusing and scary. Having someone to bounce things off who understands is important.
That's where posting here can be helpful. I didn't know what I didn't know, and drinking had made me way too sure of my own delusions.
As far as people not knowing I'd been drinking? Just another delusion.
Garen, I agree that getting engaged here (or somewhere) is a very important step in ongoing sobriety.
Early days are full of anxiety. Part of that is physical withdrawal, and then there's that ever-present thought that, "A drink would make this go away." Every nerve in my body was on high-alert in early days. For about the first ten days I wanted to crawl out of my own skin. So uncomfortable. So difficult. I was going to AA meetings in the beginning and that helped a lot. I was able to compare my inner thoughts to the thoughts of people who were in recovery - and even though I thought I had it all together, a few meetings showed me just how off I was in my regular daily thinking. Early days are really confusing and scary. Having someone to bounce things off who understands is important.
That's where posting here can be helpful. I didn't know what I didn't know, and drinking had made me way too sure of my own delusions.
As far as people not knowing I'd been drinking? Just another delusion.
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Originally Posted by nez
Reading is not the same as posting/participating. Posting what is going on was the suggestion.
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Hi Garen, good to hear from you. I can relate to the games the mind plays trying to get us to drink. I liken them to chattering monkeys in the zoo. I don't have to pay them any attention and I certainly don't have to do what they want. They are the ones in a cage, I can always walk away and take in another exhibit at the zoo known as life. :~)
I will admit there were times when I would find myself reaching for a drink, but instead of picking up the drink, I would pick up the phone or keyboard and reach out to someone who could relate. Invariably their voice would drown out the chattering monkeys and I would wind up back on an even keel. I have never regretted reaching out to someone. I have regretted reaching out for a drink.
I will admit there were times when I would find myself reaching for a drink, but instead of picking up the drink, I would pick up the phone or keyboard and reach out to someone who could relate. Invariably their voice would drown out the chattering monkeys and I would wind up back on an even keel. I have never regretted reaching out to someone. I have regretted reaching out for a drink.
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Originally Posted by nez
Hi Garen, good to hear from you. I can relate to the games the mind plays trying to get us to drink. I liken them to chattering monkeys in the zoo. I don't have to pay them any attention and I certainly don't have to do what they want. They are the ones in a cage, I can always walk away and take in another exhibit at the zoo known as life. :~)
I will admit there were times when I would find myself reaching for a drink, but instead of picking up the drink, I would pick up the phone or keyboard and reach out to someone who could relate. Invariably their voice would drown out the chattering monkeys and I would wind up back on an even keel. I have never regretted reaching out to someone. I have regretted reaching out for a drink.
I will admit there were times when I would find myself reaching for a drink, but instead of picking up the drink, I would pick up the phone or keyboard and reach out to someone who could relate. Invariably their voice would drown out the chattering monkeys and I would wind up back on an even keel. I have never regretted reaching out to someone. I have regretted reaching out for a drink.
The other problem i have is things feel, boring. Stuff that was interesting just last night. So I am trying to keep busy but really all I am doing is walking back and forth.
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That's pretty normal. When I stopped drinking, I took away my number one go-to activity. When I fished, I primarily drank and fished secondarily. When I played golf, I primarily drank and golfed secondarily. When I played music, I primarily drank and played music secondarily. Etc, etc, etc. So after I stopped drinking and went fishing, something was missing. So after I stopped drinking and went golfing, something was missing. Etc, etc, etc. The good news that after awhile the joy of primarily fishing, golfing, playing music or whatever, returned and I rediscovered why I took up those activities in the first place.
Boredom is the feeling that everything is a waste of time; serenity, that nothing is. Thomas Szasz
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Originally Posted by nez
That's pretty normal. When I stopped drinking, I took away my number one go-to activity. When I fished, I primarily drank and fished secondarily. When I played golf, I primarily drank and golfed secondarily. When I played music, I primarily drank and played music secondarily. Etc, etc, etc. So after I stopped drinking and went fishing, something was missing. So after I stopped drinking and went golfing, something was missing. Etc, etc, etc. The good news that after awhile the joy of primarily fishing, golfing, playing music or whatever, returned and I rediscovered why I took up those activities in the first place.
Maybe I should look at taking those two things back up again. In the past I have spent like 4-5 hours on the driving range just smacking balls.. or sometimes just kicking up grass. lol. I don't know of any golf courses out this way. But there are a lot of beef cattle pastures.
My other hobby, my most recent, was weight lifting. I have been hoping to return to the gym soon to assist with not drinking but I can't right now because everything is closed.
Also, I bought a bottle of wine and drank it. I made it to about 6PM. In the last two years when I had no scheduled work I don't think I made it that long before I started. So there's at least that. I will try again tomorrow. Tomorrow I need to do something different.
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:(
Originally Posted by aasharon90
If you are willing to learn then there are programs of recovery
available to all who want it and want to learn it and apply it
to their everyday life to stop the insanity and soul sickness
that comes with addiction.
The AA program of recovery was introduced to me back in
1990 when I entered a 28 day rehab stay with a 6 week after
care program attached.
The love and care of family helped me while I was there,
taking care of my little family until I was released and returned
home. From there I took this important knowledge and lessons
and began my recovery journey a day at a time applying it
to all areas of my life to achieve many of lifes rewarding gifts.
These gifts are not all material gifts which are all fine and
dandy. Those gifts cant always bring happiness. Those gift
come and go, but the ones we work so hard on will be the
one that will strength us inside our hearts, minds and souls.
I had to be taught about addiction and a program of recovery
to use as a guideline to make my amends to those ive hurt,
lied to, stole from. Resentments I held onto to learn how to
let go of. To clean up the wreckage of the past I made.
Then to take this knowledge and guideline of living to move
forward in my life and enhance it with gratitude and humility.
My recovery journey began 29 yrs ago and have used the
program of AA on a continuous bases to help me achieve
success in my own recovery life today.
With willingness, openmindedness and honesty, you too
can achieve success in all areas of your life like so many
have today.
available to all who want it and want to learn it and apply it
to their everyday life to stop the insanity and soul sickness
that comes with addiction.
The AA program of recovery was introduced to me back in
1990 when I entered a 28 day rehab stay with a 6 week after
care program attached.
The love and care of family helped me while I was there,
taking care of my little family until I was released and returned
home. From there I took this important knowledge and lessons
and began my recovery journey a day at a time applying it
to all areas of my life to achieve many of lifes rewarding gifts.
These gifts are not all material gifts which are all fine and
dandy. Those gifts cant always bring happiness. Those gift
come and go, but the ones we work so hard on will be the
one that will strength us inside our hearts, minds and souls.
I had to be taught about addiction and a program of recovery
to use as a guideline to make my amends to those ive hurt,
lied to, stole from. Resentments I held onto to learn how to
let go of. To clean up the wreckage of the past I made.
Then to take this knowledge and guideline of living to move
forward in my life and enhance it with gratitude and humility.
My recovery journey began 29 yrs ago and have used the
program of AA on a continuous bases to help me achieve
success in my own recovery life today.
With willingness, openmindedness and honesty, you too
can achieve success in all areas of your life like so many
have today.
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