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Oh Well? Part 2

Old 10-31-2020, 07:03 AM
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And just like that, I think I found my new home group.
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Old 10-31-2020, 09:45 AM
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I don't think humility is even remotely possible for the Sapiens species. Its one of those 'wouldn't that be nice' concepts. There can be moments of just about any state....peace, contentment, giving, honesty....but a state of any one thing? Nah. Nope. Self. That's a constant. And is that bad? Who cares? It's preprogrammed.

All I can do is try not to be a complete azzhat most of the time then I think I'm doing ok. Haha. I is what I is.
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Old 10-31-2020, 10:49 AM
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And she lands with a resounding THUMP!
WELCOME BACK, FLIPS!!!
Lord knows we've been missing you!

Someone who periodically appears in many of the groups I frequent is pretty much a blowhard who says the same thing repeatedly and long-windedly. I have no doubt that he is being sincere and has "good recovery" going on, but he is mostly a one-hit wonder with the shares. However, he once said something different that really stuck with me: his sponsor defined humility as being exactly who God designed me to be, no more and no less. I like that - it's the best definition I've ever heard or read. And it's how I understand the principle of anonymity as well.
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Old 11-01-2020, 06:03 AM
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For those of you who have formed the impression that I've completely abandoned my codependent ways, let me tell you what - I have not.

I spoke with eldest yesterday for close to two hours and even when she was shocked at the mention that I am paying $300/month for a personal trainer I'm not using (refuse to go to the gym), I did not take the natural opportunity to say, "Well, I'm also paying $400/month for your car insurance, which I didn't really give you permission to put on my card long-term." Why? Because I don't want to upset her. She was feeling good and I didn't want to burst her bubble. (Deep down truth - I'm afraid it will send her into a tailspin of despair and she will die.)

Yesterday morning, I found a gift bag hanging on the outside doorknob. The label said, "Thank You! Middlest" I was confused. Should I read that as, "Thank You (mom)! - Middlest" or as "Thank You (for your purchase), Middlest!" And I thought, "Well, it could be that she sent me a gift to thank me for tending to the menagerie. That would be a nice and grown-up thing to do. It could be that." Instead I decided to text her at a decent California time to ask her about it. Within an hour, she sent me a message to let me know something had been delivered for her and could I please bring it inside?" Well, there you go.

To start reclaiming the house, I began with laundry and linens. Because the washer and dryer are in the basement, so I need to go through their room to get to them and also because there are often clothes in one or the other machines. As I was passing through the room, I thought "Wouldn't it be nice if they could come home to clean linens and a made bed?" "Oh and also, I should swap out that small table middlest is using as a desk for the longer one I have in my room." I'd offered it to her previously, but she declined. I think that was motivated by just not wanting to go through the hassle. So I did all of that, then I tidied up a bit. Watered and tended to her plants that have been neglected. And I fed and watered and walked the pets.

I'm a good mom, but also kind of a pushover.
It's ok for now.

Grymt, how are thou?
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Old 11-03-2020, 05:30 AM
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O,
That personal trainer is making out like a bandit. Easy money! lol

Are you truly afraid that your daughter will die if she was to pay for her car insurance or is that statement hyperbolic? If it's the "will die" then that is a lot of weight to be carrying around. Also, her insurance is REALLY expensive. Geez.....We have full coverage on 2 cars and its $160.00 a month. I think we are paying way too much and I am always trying to find ways to get a lower payment.

That would of been nice to find a gift on your door from the middle! Instead its for her. Bummer!

I have to ask if the middle will mind that you cleaned the sheets and swapped out the desk? Will she feel like you invaded her space in some way? I cant help but to think that this kind gesture may go south. I surely hope it doesn't.
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Old 11-03-2020, 09:22 AM
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Mizz, eldest was suicidal a while back. I worry about her constantly, but not in the front of my mind, if you know what I mean? It's an undercurrent I can mostly disregard, but when I think about taking anything away from her, it rouses the fear. This is, I imagine, a hold-out from when I believed that the world revolved around me to the extent that I felt (feel) responsible for someone else's reaction to what I do or don't do. It's not a reasonable fear, it just is. Do I think she'd die if I stopped paying insurance? No, not really. But...

And, yes car insurance is quite expensive around here, particularly if you are a fairly young woman living in the city.with a horrible credit rating.

I think middlest will be just fine with the things I did for her. I literally walk through her space every time I need to do laundry or get something from the "back room;" and no privacy was invaded in the course of making the bed or swapping tables. (I did think the same thing as you worried about for a moment when I was writing about it earlier, but I genuinely feel this is a kind gesture she'll appreciate. If I'd rearranged everything, that would be a different story for sure.)
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Old 11-04-2020, 05:50 AM
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All of the above sounds very good, O.
Have a wonderful Wednesday. Lets take this day and make it all that we can!
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Old 11-06-2020, 12:31 PM
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[QUOTE=Obladi;7534881]And she lands with a resounding THUMP!
WELCOME BACK, FLIPS!!!
Lord knows we've been missing you!

Haha. You are welcome. Thump is right. Humility. I wouldn't know it if it smacked me in the face. Obviously this is a personal issue

400/month for car insurance? Uh, er wow. You're a nice Mom. And that's hella expensive car insurance. Speaking of which I really need to requote mine.....Monday. Yes Monday.

I didn't realize you had your house back! My place is silent!!!!! And I loves it....of course I'm a weirdo loner who lacks humility.

I am very proud to share that I got off my sleep meds! Yay me, I rock. Wait, um, I mean, I'm grateful that I was able to make that happen through some kind of miracle outside myself. Nope nope. All me. Yay me. I'm just kidding. Or not. I dunno. Either way, that crap it outta here!!!

Ok, have a great weekend everyone!!
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Old 11-06-2020, 02:45 PM
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Hey Entropy

D
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Old 11-06-2020, 03:23 PM
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Flips, I think someone gave you the wrong definition of humility. In my dictionary (that I didn't invent, but have adopted as my own), there is nothing non-humble about crowing over one's own accomplishments. You kicked the sleep meds - that's badass and you have every reason to brag on yourself about that. Yes, you did that. Own it.

I did get my house "back," for awhile. Maybe a year and a half, even. Then I gave it up so I could go to rehab and sober living, during which time eldest decided she'd be better off getting sober (drinking) while living at my house. Then I took it back, then I agreed to share.with middlest and her boyfriend and creatures. But I do still "have it back," because it's very clearly my home. Not in a crappy, "You can't so much as burn a candle without my permission" kind of way like it was at the sober home. But in a decent boundaries, "I can't stand living in a mess or walking on eggshells, and I'm just not going to" kind of way. I'm pretty ok with that.

Wonder of wonders (listen up, fini!), I've learned to keep my mouth shut. Even when I have pearls of wisdom just waiting to drop from my mellifluous lips, I'm ok not saying anything. It doesn't hurt or anything. I am suddenly and without effort (unless you count the preceding life toward the effort) able to simply sit, listen, observe. Wow, what a wondrous thing to have truly stopped fighting any thing or any one.

Time to go geek out on this very ancient old school DOS game a friend of mine found for me online.
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Old 11-06-2020, 07:53 PM
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i’m listening up, O.
huh? did i advocate keepin’ mouth shut? i can at times advocate fir things i myself cannot achieve. ah. i see. hypocrisy.

i had been thinking, actually, over several of your last posts about the “kids” and sinks with dishes and such, that you were keeping hands too busy doing others’ dishes and not insisting they do what they said they would.
but i kept my mouth shut.
i find it hard to know when to shut and when to open.

very interesting comment you made on Mizz’ thread about the obsession appearing to/in you, but not the desire. what is that like for you? what do you do then?
it’s not happened to me since i quit THIS time. the opposite to you: obsession gone but desire sometimes popped up.
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Old 11-08-2020, 05:54 AM
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fini, you never told me to keep my mouth shut, but I do believe you've sometimes nudged me toward better listening.

What's different about this recent turn of events is that I have found the ability to observe with significantly less judgement than I've previously been able to master - ever. For instance, earlier this week I was in a meeting with five others and our mutual Director. My boss and I are one team, the balance are another. In my opinion (which is frankly not at all humble), the other team has been in continual upheaval because a series of managers and leads have actually tried to heed the Director's direction. My manager has now joined me in the strategy of going with the spirit of the direction rather than the specific methodologies he suggests. Anyhow. The point is that my manager and I (without previous agreement) mostly just listened to the rest of them do their thing. At some point, I sent a back-channel message to my manager saying, "Wow. You can really see each of these people clearly during this discussion." She responded, "Yup." It's such a freeing thing to be merely there, listening.

Middlest and her dishes. Yeah, that's a minor annoyance so I kvetch about it and definitely enjoyed it when it wasn't a factor this last week. But some kind of predictable but amazing-to-me thing has happened here: I set my boundaries and feel confident about them, middlest and beau have shown respect for said boundaries (which are really my "needs"), and so now it's almost just fine when the kids are more lax. It's not a big deal for me to wash a few dishes or tidy up from time-to-time IF I feel like it. If I don't feel like it, I just leave it or ask them to take care of it. On the other hand, if the sink is full of dishes because they haven't gotten to them yet, I don't try to maneuver around their stuff, I just add mine to the pile. Seems fair to me.

As far as when to shut as opposed to open, that seems to be more an art than a science, no? Definitely made more challenging being as our expressions here are entirely in black n white. (Or anyhow, type and no-type.) Of course, it's not a matter of open or shut. Open is preferable if there's something that might be beneficial to the other. It's the quality of the communication that makes a difference, I think. I'm pretty sure you know me well enough by now to recognize that I'm rarely a fortress of steel. If you pointed out to me that I was doing dishes when I'd previously said the kids absolutely needed to do their own, that would not be revelatory to me, you know? You do know. It's more challenging with those we don't know, huh? I'm not sure in those cases. I definitely say way more to people who post here because they definitely must have an expectation that others will remark on their shares. Otherwise, I've occasionally offered my number to another woman. None have called me. And that's ok, i guess?

I'm gonna get some coffee and think about obsession.

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Old 11-08-2020, 07:22 AM
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de·sire
/dəˈzī(ə)r/
noun
a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen.

(Middle English: from Old French desir (noun), desirer (verb), from Latin desiderare (see desiderate) Desiderate? Never heard of that word, let's go!

de·sid·er·ate
/dəˈsidəˌrāt/
verb
ARCHAIC
feel a keen desire for (something lacking or absent).

ob·ses·sion
/əbˈseSHən/
noun
an idea or thought that continually preoccupies or intrudes on a person's mind.
(late Middle English (in the sense ‘haunt, possess’, referring to an evil spirit): from Latin obsess- ‘besieged’)

What I feel at times is more in alignment with the definition of obsession than desire. I don't ever have random or even predictable thoughts along the lines of "a drink sure sounds good right now." Or, 'Wow, look at those people drinking a glass of wine - I'd sure like a glass of wine." The one time I remember having a feeling anything like that variety of desire was a couple of years ago. I saw two women having a beer at an outside table at the bar downstairs from work. It was a beautiful fall evening, and I was immediately wistful, but it wasn't really for the drink; it was for that warm and slightly heady feeling of intimacy that the scene brought to mind. So I guess I did have a wish for something, but it wasn't for the drink - it was for the experience.

For the longest time, when considering a drink, I was never considering "a" drink. I was almost always pulled by the desire (yep, I see that fini) to escape, or hide, or just descend completely into the place of not caring. I suppose it ended up being the absence of desire - a passive death wish. But of course I still had some will because I communicated with you all during that last horrible spiral. I scared myself. I was frightened that there really was no way out of myself and that I'd just need to live with that person I was, drinking or not. And I just couldn't.

So you see, I have no desire to drink. It doesn't sound like a good idea for either my palate or my state of mind. But sometimes I still obsess. From time to time, the beast comes to call and when It does, there the idea of drinking is unbidden. It presents immediately as an option. If I allow the "will I or won't I" argument, that is the obsession I was thinking of when that guy spoke the other day. And I've done that. It's automatic. It doesn't feel as conscious to me as having an actual thought; it's a feeling. I guess the way I see it, the act of desiring something involves conscious association or a thought process. Whereas obsession comes completely unbidden, jumping from under the bed or around the bush or somewhere I had no warning it would be.

What do I do then?
What Gymt suggested - nothing.
Until I get a grip and stabilize myself again, enough to think through what just happened. Jack Trimpey would call that "vertigo" and would dismiss it just as easily - like it was some kind of unexplainable but predictable spell. AAs might say I get down to "causes and conditions."
It's really some of each.
1. Notice the feeling
2. Recognize without judgement that I am experiencing this feeling and it is unpleasant. Live with it.
3. Reaffirm that I Never Drink Now
4. Investigate what happened to summon the beast. Naturally, it's always an internal reaction. Sometimes I chalk it up to a conditioned response, "Of course I'm going to think about drinking - I did it a million times in situations just like this," but more often I can find something deeper than that. No disrespect to anyone who can just toss the feeling off and move along, but that feels lazy and half-arsed to me. For myself, it is useful and mostly necessary to locate the internal dis-ease and take control or ownership of it.

I could probably write myself in circles about this, but that's pretty much it. Does that make sense?
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Old 11-08-2020, 07:31 PM
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ah, i see.
for me, the definitions you quoted are right on. the obsession is preoccupying (huh? why “pre”? it is occupying, is what it is!) and intruding and continual, just always there somewhere.
and yes i do know what you mean about not pointing out something that wouldn’t reveal a thing
you sound well, O....is that a reflection of how you are doing?
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Old 11-09-2020, 07:32 AM
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Sorry I've been absent lately--stress of last few weeks was kicking my communicative butt, but better now. Great posts which deserve a thoughtful response just above, but at the moment, to work I go. . .
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Old 11-09-2020, 09:06 AM
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"For myself, it is useful and mostly necessary to locate the internal dis-ease and take control or ownership of it."
yes, that makes tons of sense to me. since i do the same, so you and i are in an echo chamber on that.
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Old 11-09-2020, 09:09 AM
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Hi O, I try not to overcomplicate the thoughts of a drink/obsession, after I researched the cause of addiction in my brain. This is an overly-simplified, but sound infographic of the knowledge that secured my sobriety, and reassured me that in time, the thoughts/obsession would continue to lessen. I am not defined by my grey matters habitual response to emotions/feelings (now rarely) I am me, and can notice the habitual response and dismiss it. It's so reassuring to believe that I every time I do so, my brain IS re-writing the previously addicted hard-wiring!

https://www.altamirarecovery.com/blo...ion-treatment/
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Old 11-09-2020, 10:07 AM
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Please continue:

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ml#post7538878
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