Oh Well? Part 2
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
No!
Because why would they assume I don't know? I don't tell you about things you may already know in a "trying to educate you" sort of way. And you don't do that with me, either. I assume if you don't know what I'm talking about, you'll tell me. And vice versa. Just like I wrote a short time ago that I'd never heard the "lead with what you want" sentence you mentioned.
Now, if you were talking about some special yarn and telling me what is superior about that type of yarn, it wouldn't put my nose out of joint because I know nothing about yarn, nor would you expect me to. But even then, I don't think you'd go straight into education mode. You'd likely say something like, "There's this yarn I love, maybe you've heard of it? What I adore about gerbil yarn is how well-suited it is to knitting kaftans." And that would leave me space to say, "How fascinating, tell me more, " or "Oh yeah, I love the stuff, only I use it mainly for crocheting tea cozies!"
You see?
Because why would they assume I don't know? I don't tell you about things you may already know in a "trying to educate you" sort of way. And you don't do that with me, either. I assume if you don't know what I'm talking about, you'll tell me. And vice versa. Just like I wrote a short time ago that I'd never heard the "lead with what you want" sentence you mentioned.
Now, if you were talking about some special yarn and telling me what is superior about that type of yarn, it wouldn't put my nose out of joint because I know nothing about yarn, nor would you expect me to. But even then, I don't think you'd go straight into education mode. You'd likely say something like, "There's this yarn I love, maybe you've heard of it? What I adore about gerbil yarn is how well-suited it is to knitting kaftans." And that would leave me space to say, "How fascinating, tell me more, " or "Oh yeah, I love the stuff, only I use it mainly for crocheting tea cozies!"
You see?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
In my case I think it is related to the fact that you are implying that I am stupid or not respecting me or something like that. And that is because I am hypersensitive to that. But if they are really just trying to help and care for me why not listen and I might learn something ...
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Oh!
Here's what it is! In every case I can think of, I felt the other party missed the mark. And my irritation is about feeling that I'm not being heard/understood.
Like the time I told this AA guy how I struggled with the word "surrender" and was so pleased to find that word was nowhere in the first 164 pages of the Big Book! His response was contrary to my introductory statement, which was along the lines of, "I really enjoyed your share; like you, I believe I need to find a way to make this program work for me." In response to my pleasant surprise about the word "surrender" offered as an expansion or illustration, he said "But the word 'concede' is in there." Argh! I was trying to connect, and I felt he smacked me down by telling me something I know that wasn't the point at all, and furthermore already knew!
So I think I know my response now. It's something along the lines of, "Yes, that's true and what I was trying to express was (insert what I was expressing)."
Thanks for your help with this, friends.
Here's what it is! In every case I can think of, I felt the other party missed the mark. And my irritation is about feeling that I'm not being heard/understood.
Like the time I told this AA guy how I struggled with the word "surrender" and was so pleased to find that word was nowhere in the first 164 pages of the Big Book! His response was contrary to my introductory statement, which was along the lines of, "I really enjoyed your share; like you, I believe I need to find a way to make this program work for me." In response to my pleasant surprise about the word "surrender" offered as an expansion or illustration, he said "But the word 'concede' is in there." Argh! I was trying to connect, and I felt he smacked me down by telling me something I know that wasn't the point at all, and furthermore already knew!
So I think I know my response now. It's something along the lines of, "Yes, that's true and what I was trying to express was (insert what I was expressing)."
Thanks for your help with this, friends.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
i do see, O, but then i see it differently, also.
i don't think it's about assuming you don't know; i think it's about people wanting to offer something they see as useful.
so, when i offered "lead with what you're looking for", i had no idea if you have heard that or "know" it (which you actually do, i'm pretty sure, as it is just more or less a re-stated "lead by example"), but offered it in a certain spirit of "oh, at this point this might be something useful to this person".
so when you write about the guy's comeback about "concede" being in the book when you were speaking about "surrender", i read that not as him smacking you down but as giving it to you to consider, and seeing if that opens your considerations up more, as there are differences between concede and/or surrender, but they are also very close.
of course i wasn't there, and maybe his tone or facial expression indicated a smack-down.
from here, though, it doesn't look like he missed the point. he added something to it after hearing it.
and for me, and this really is about me , so much depends on who says what. if it had been my dad, i would have always heard it as a smackdown. if it were said by my sponsorperson,i would inevitably hear it as an offering meant to help.
i don't think it's about assuming you don't know; i think it's about people wanting to offer something they see as useful.
so, when i offered "lead with what you're looking for", i had no idea if you have heard that or "know" it (which you actually do, i'm pretty sure, as it is just more or less a re-stated "lead by example"), but offered it in a certain spirit of "oh, at this point this might be something useful to this person".
so when you write about the guy's comeback about "concede" being in the book when you were speaking about "surrender", i read that not as him smacking you down but as giving it to you to consider, and seeing if that opens your considerations up more, as there are differences between concede and/or surrender, but they are also very close.
of course i wasn't there, and maybe his tone or facial expression indicated a smack-down.
from here, though, it doesn't look like he missed the point. he added something to it after hearing it.
and for me, and this really is about me , so much depends on who says what. if it had been my dad, i would have always heard it as a smackdown. if it were said by my sponsorperson,i would inevitably hear it as an offering meant to help.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
So O, I'm undertaking psychology courses (because I still don't understand why I fell prey to alcohol addiction) and one thing I've learnt is that "feelings follow thoughts - often sub-conscious pre-conditioning thoughts". But reading back, you think that's wrong, and that "feelings come first, and then thoughts follow feelings". And I wonder whether that standpoint might hinder you.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
The point of all of this exploration the last week or so has not been to determine the other party's intention. Certainly, people intend to help or at least be decent human beings. This is not what I was trying to figure out. Understanding that someone else is just trying to be helpful is a given. What I couldn't get my arms around is why this certain type of helpfulness does not feel helpful to me at all and in fact angers me.
Again, I think what I've found is the feeling of being misunderstood or not heard. My point was not that the big book doesn't contain the word surrender, my point was that I was delighted to find that word wasn't there because I'd really struggled with that; and like this guy had just shared, I was learning how to make the program work for me. (Stated otherwise, it's not the program that does magic unto the AA - it's the AA that does magic in alignment with their HP via the steps of the program.) One of those ways I employed was to go to the source and find this pleasant surprise. All of this time, I'd been trying so hard to take in the concept of surrender, and I didn't need to do that at all!
So, of course, it's not up to me to determine how or what the other party has to say to me, but what I was looking for was something along the lines of, "I'm really glad you understood my share and are finding a way to make the program work for you. It's not always easy to search for your own truth despite the group think, but it's so worth it." I'll reiterate that I understand that he was being clever with me, or was somehow pointing to semantics not being important, or was trying to tell me there is a word that approximated "surrender" in those first 164 pages. But that's not what I was trying to express to him.
Tats, I think you and those professors of Psychology are undoubtedly correct - feelings follow thoughts. But that subconscious thing is what throws me for a loop. This is what I didn't previously understand. And this is why I have learned to go on the hunt for where the feeling is coming from. The feeling originates from thought patterns that are so deeply ingrained that I don't even know they are there. So now that I've established that the feeling is that of being misunderstood/not heard, it's pretty clear to track that feeling back to my old standby thoughts or beliefs. Thoughts or beliefs like "I am not good enough," "people don't understand me," "I don't belong."
Which takes me right back to thinking the solution for me is to stand tall and say something along the lines of, "Yes, that's true; I understand that, and what I was trying to express was (insert what I was expressing)."
I hope that makes sense to y'all.
I'm perfectly happy to let it go at that or continue discussing.
Again, I think what I've found is the feeling of being misunderstood or not heard. My point was not that the big book doesn't contain the word surrender, my point was that I was delighted to find that word wasn't there because I'd really struggled with that; and like this guy had just shared, I was learning how to make the program work for me. (Stated otherwise, it's not the program that does magic unto the AA - it's the AA that does magic in alignment with their HP via the steps of the program.) One of those ways I employed was to go to the source and find this pleasant surprise. All of this time, I'd been trying so hard to take in the concept of surrender, and I didn't need to do that at all!
So, of course, it's not up to me to determine how or what the other party has to say to me, but what I was looking for was something along the lines of, "I'm really glad you understood my share and are finding a way to make the program work for you. It's not always easy to search for your own truth despite the group think, but it's so worth it." I'll reiterate that I understand that he was being clever with me, or was somehow pointing to semantics not being important, or was trying to tell me there is a word that approximated "surrender" in those first 164 pages. But that's not what I was trying to express to him.
Tats, I think you and those professors of Psychology are undoubtedly correct - feelings follow thoughts. But that subconscious thing is what throws me for a loop. This is what I didn't previously understand. And this is why I have learned to go on the hunt for where the feeling is coming from. The feeling originates from thought patterns that are so deeply ingrained that I don't even know they are there. So now that I've established that the feeling is that of being misunderstood/not heard, it's pretty clear to track that feeling back to my old standby thoughts or beliefs. Thoughts or beliefs like "I am not good enough," "people don't understand me," "I don't belong."
Which takes me right back to thinking the solution for me is to stand tall and say something along the lines of, "Yes, that's true; I understand that, and what I was trying to express was (insert what I was expressing)."
I hope that makes sense to y'all.
I'm perfectly happy to let it go at that or continue discussing.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
O, your post #306, fourth paragraph addressed to me, made me smile and I 100% agree with you. It's heartening to see you grow in understanding of yourself, conscious and sub-conscious. Because I did too, and ongoing. And although we're individuals, I appreciate the commonality that I often read in your thread, and I don't feel so alone, in this experience, of self-discovery.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
My home is getting so homey, y'all! Only 2.5 months in sober living instilled habits in me that I'm continuing. Wash, dry, put away. Do a chore every day. Buy only the groceries that will fit in the space allotted (I continue to shop that way and I like having less.)
Attended a meeting this morning I hadn't been to before - and I really liked it. These are held at a psychiatric hospital/treatment center where they have a space that serves as their very own Alano club. Each meeting I've attended has had a different "feel" to it, most of which are perfectly fine. But this one was comprised of folks primarily in the same age range as me, and it seemed that they may have also been primarily "dual diagnosis" folks just like me. I spoke about how I'd continually railed (in my mind) against people who told me that I was thinking too much and that finally, finally I seem to have come to a place where I'm sorting it all out. Talked about realizing physical feelings are expressions of feelings and that those feelings come from somewhere and how that discomfort has to be addressed. Lots of nods of understanding. Very cool.
Had some long overdue work that really needed doing, so although today is my holiday, I put in about 4 hours to take care of that and get a bit "ahead," to boot. I cussed a lot and developed a headache, but it's done. I will now be able to enjoy my weekend without that stuff looming in the corner. Ahhhh
Time to hang curtains.
Or order pizza.
Or both!
Attended a meeting this morning I hadn't been to before - and I really liked it. These are held at a psychiatric hospital/treatment center where they have a space that serves as their very own Alano club. Each meeting I've attended has had a different "feel" to it, most of which are perfectly fine. But this one was comprised of folks primarily in the same age range as me, and it seemed that they may have also been primarily "dual diagnosis" folks just like me.
I spoke about how I'd continually railed (in my mind) against people who told me that I was thinking too much and that finally, finally I seem to have come to a place where I'm sorting it all out. Talked about realizing physical feelings are expressions of feelings and that those feelings come from somewhere and how that discomfort has to be addressed. Lots of nods of understanding. Very cool. Had some long overdue work that really needed doing, so although today is my holiday, I put in about 4 hours to take care of that and get a bit "ahead," to boot. I cussed a lot and developed a headache, but it's done. I will now be able to enjoy my weekend without that stuff looming in the corner. Ahhhh
Time to hang curtains.
Or order pizza.
Or both!
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Just happened across this:
When I ask you to listen to me
and you start giving me advice,
You have not done what I asked.
When I ask you to listen to me
and you begin to tell me why
I shouldn’t feel that way,
you are trampling on my feelings.
When I ask you to listen to me
and you feel you have to do something
to solve my problem,
you have failed me,
strange as that may seem.
Listen! All I ask is that you listen.
Don’t talk or do – just hear me…
And I can do for myself; I am not helpless.
Maybe discouraged and faltering,
but not helpless.
When you do something for me that I can and need to do for myself,
you contribute to my fear and
Inadequacy.
But when you accept as a simple fact
That I feel what I feel,
No matter how irrational,
Then I can stop trying to convince
You and get about this business
Of understanding what’s behind
This irrational feeling.
And when that’s clear, the answers are obvious and I don’t need advice.
Irrational feelings make sense when
we understand what’s behind them.
So please listen, and just hear me.
And if you want to talk, wait a minute
for your turn– and I will listen to you.
Please Listen: A Poem
By: Leo BuscagliaWhen I ask you to listen to me
and you start giving me advice,
You have not done what I asked.
When I ask you to listen to me
and you begin to tell me why
I shouldn’t feel that way,
you are trampling on my feelings.
When I ask you to listen to me
and you feel you have to do something
to solve my problem,
you have failed me,
strange as that may seem.
Listen! All I ask is that you listen.
Don’t talk or do – just hear me…
And I can do for myself; I am not helpless.
Maybe discouraged and faltering,
but not helpless.
When you do something for me that I can and need to do for myself,
you contribute to my fear and
Inadequacy.
But when you accept as a simple fact
That I feel what I feel,
No matter how irrational,
Then I can stop trying to convince
You and get about this business
Of understanding what’s behind
This irrational feeling.
And when that’s clear, the answers are obvious and I don’t need advice.
Irrational feelings make sense when
we understand what’s behind them.
So please listen, and just hear me.
And if you want to talk, wait a minute
for your turn– and I will listen to you.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
This was the part that hit me between the eyes:
But when you accept as a simple fact
That I feel what I feel,
No matter how irrational,
Then I can stop trying to convince
You and get about this business
Of understanding what’s behind
This irrational feeling.
And when that’s clear, the answers are obvious and I don’t need advice.
Irrational feelings make sense when
we understand what’s behind them.
And that is exactly where I can use the help that people want to give.
I read further after posting, and apparently this poem was meant to illustrate what teenagers need from "grown ups." Going with the theory that we're arrested in our development when we start drinking, that seems appropriate for me. Also going with the knowledge that I never got any of that support before I started drinking and everything got even more scrambled up once I did start drinking, I'd say that in many ways I have been an emotional adolescent for the bulk of my adult life. Based on the behavior of those around me, I'd guess it's not an uncommon state of affairs.
Thanks for listening.
But when you accept as a simple fact
That I feel what I feel,
No matter how irrational,
Then I can stop trying to convince
You and get about this business
Of understanding what’s behind
This irrational feeling.
And when that’s clear, the answers are obvious and I don’t need advice.
Irrational feelings make sense when
we understand what’s behind them.
And that is exactly where I can use the help that people want to give.
I read further after posting, and apparently this poem was meant to illustrate what teenagers need from "grown ups." Going with the theory that we're arrested in our development when we start drinking, that seems appropriate for me. Also going with the knowledge that I never got any of that support before I started drinking and everything got even more scrambled up once I did start drinking, I'd say that in many ways I have been an emotional adolescent for the bulk of my adult life. Based on the behavior of those around me, I'd guess it's not an uncommon state of affairs.
Thanks for listening.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
When I was speaking with my new sponsor, K on Saturday, she asked me why I'd chosen to stick with her given that I'm home and therefore no longer required by to have a sponsor. I told her that her compassion in seeing that I'd been hurt by other people in the program was really meaningful to me. And I teared up a little bit, I guess from the relief of having found a person who will walk by my side rather than forcing me down the path that they know. We had a really good talk incorporating lots of elements of how I'm making this (my) program work for me, and K said she truly enjoyed the discussion. So that's a win.
I told her that when I'd gotten done with my work Friday, I thought about drinking. We explored that a little and I think what I found is that not having something specific to do looming over my head left me staring into that old emptiness I've experienced before. I just had to kind of shake my head at myself - here I've been saying I need to really stop and pay attention to inner disturbances and I didn't even realize that I'd just "powered through" that impulse to drink until I was telling K about it. It didn't even occur to me to have this on my list of things to talk about. Damned beast sneaking around in my subconscious trying to stay hidden. Anyhow, I spoke about it and it has no power over me.
Sent middlest a text message Saturday morning just to say "Thinking about you, hope you are well." To my surprise, she responded. She said, "I'm fine, working on getting my car fixed before I drive out there next weekend." (Of course, I'd no idea this was the plan...) So I texted back, "Sorry to hear about your car! Glad you are doing well." The ice has a crack in it. And that's a good thing. However, I did notice that I felt spiteful and momentarily considered not replying to her at all. Hmmm. I guess that's natural - you freeze me out, I'll freeze you out in return. But that's silly and immature and meets her at the level I'm assuming she's at. I'm glad I instead acted like a grown up. With boundaries.
Eldest continues to do very well. She's still playing with fire from time to time and that worries me of course. But she is legitimately happy and has been sustaining that level of contentment for at least two weeks, so that's really great. The weight of her depression has lifted from my shoulders. It's still hanging around in the atmosphere, but that's a far cry better than carrying it with me always.
I told her that when I'd gotten done with my work Friday, I thought about drinking. We explored that a little and I think what I found is that not having something specific to do looming over my head left me staring into that old emptiness I've experienced before. I just had to kind of shake my head at myself - here I've been saying I need to really stop and pay attention to inner disturbances and I didn't even realize that I'd just "powered through" that impulse to drink until I was telling K about it. It didn't even occur to me to have this on my list of things to talk about. Damned beast sneaking around in my subconscious trying to stay hidden. Anyhow, I spoke about it and it has no power over me.
Sent middlest a text message Saturday morning just to say "Thinking about you, hope you are well." To my surprise, she responded. She said, "I'm fine, working on getting my car fixed before I drive out there next weekend." (Of course, I'd no idea this was the plan...) So I texted back, "Sorry to hear about your car! Glad you are doing well." The ice has a crack in it. And that's a good thing. However, I did notice that I felt spiteful and momentarily considered not replying to her at all. Hmmm. I guess that's natural - you freeze me out, I'll freeze you out in return. But that's silly and immature and meets her at the level I'm assuming she's at. I'm glad I instead acted like a grown up. With boundaries.
Eldest continues to do very well. She's still playing with fire from time to time and that worries me of course. But she is legitimately happy and has been sustaining that level of contentment for at least two weeks, so that's really great. The weight of her depression has lifted from my shoulders. It's still hanging around in the atmosphere, but that's a far cry better than carrying it with me always.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
I told my story to my new sponsor yesterday. It was something I'd suggested as an alternative to doing a 5th step with her as her stated purpose was to get to know me better. I was much more emotional that I would have thought I'd be, and way more wordy than I generally ever am when speaking.
I think it was effective. K said, "That's a lot.... I think you have a deep need for connection and to be understood." Bingo. Simple, right? So I cried a bit more and let loose some of the anger I have at the sponsorship approach I've experienced with the women in my community. It startled her; apparently it was so explosive that she thought she'd done something wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth and I told her so.
I told her that I'd had a panic attack Thursday night. I didn't know what it was about, so had just powered through like I do. The next day I reminded myself that's a dangerous thing for me to do - power through. I resolved to think about it, then promptly forgot that intention (and even the episode) until I was speaking with K. Right that moment, I looked at my phone and remembered that I'd had a completely non-emotive text exchange middlest initiated Thursday afternoon. Which I had followed up with, "How come your driving out here now? Have your plans changed?" To which she did not respond. Which hurt, of course.
K suggested that I start an anxiety journal. Which I balked at (internally) but agreed to do. She said, "This will give you valuable information to share with your therapist," and I see the wisdom in that. She also said, "You know, if you were experiencing dissociative episodes, that may have happened in interaction with middlest; she may be holding onto something you have no recollection of." I'd never considered that. It could be true. I won't know until middlest is willing to speak with me and I can accept that even if I don't like it.
Sassy told me some time back that I needed to really redouble my efforts and be on hyper-alert this first year, particularly as the months start adding up. She was right, and I thank the universe for sending me this sponsor who seems to be tailor-made just for me.
I think it was effective. K said, "That's a lot.... I think you have a deep need for connection and to be understood." Bingo. Simple, right? So I cried a bit more and let loose some of the anger I have at the sponsorship approach I've experienced with the women in my community. It startled her; apparently it was so explosive that she thought she'd done something wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth and I told her so.
I told her that I'd had a panic attack Thursday night. I didn't know what it was about, so had just powered through like I do. The next day I reminded myself that's a dangerous thing for me to do - power through. I resolved to think about it, then promptly forgot that intention (and even the episode) until I was speaking with K. Right that moment, I looked at my phone and remembered that I'd had a completely non-emotive text exchange middlest initiated Thursday afternoon. Which I had followed up with, "How come your driving out here now? Have your plans changed?" To which she did not respond. Which hurt, of course.
K suggested that I start an anxiety journal. Which I balked at (internally) but agreed to do. She said, "This will give you valuable information to share with your therapist," and I see the wisdom in that. She also said, "You know, if you were experiencing dissociative episodes, that may have happened in interaction with middlest; she may be holding onto something you have no recollection of." I'd never considered that. It could be true. I won't know until middlest is willing to speak with me and I can accept that even if I don't like it.
Sassy told me some time back that I needed to really redouble my efforts and be on hyper-alert this first year, particularly as the months start adding up. She was right, and I thank the universe for sending me this sponsor who seems to be tailor-made just for me.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
hi O,
good to hear you are being heard by your new sponsor. here is what i am not getting: if you are doing the stepstuff with her, why would you change step 5 and do an "alternative"? why not tell her your story AND do step five? ultimately, my question is why do "the program" but not do the program? what am i missing?
good to hear you are being heard by your new sponsor. here is what i am not getting: if you are doing the stepstuff with her, why would you change step 5 and do an "alternative"? why not tell her your story AND do step five? ultimately, my question is why do "the program" but not do the program? what am i missing?
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Hi fini,
I've already done step 5. I don't see reason to do so again, aside from if a new something arises. If that were the case, I would think it would be more along the lines of doing a run through the steps for that new thing. That's what K tells me she does and it makes sense to me.
Maybe K will guide me differently in the future, but if getting to know me was the goal, telling my story seemed to be a more effective strategy than enumerating my moral shortcomings.
Did you do a formal Step 5 more than once? I'm confused in turn about why one would do that, as we've already discussed in relation to 4.
I've already done step 5. I don't see reason to do so again, aside from if a new something arises. If that were the case, I would think it would be more along the lines of doing a run through the steps for that new thing. That's what K tells me she does and it makes sense to me.
Maybe K will guide me differently in the future, but if getting to know me was the goal, telling my story seemed to be a more effective strategy than enumerating my moral shortcomings.
Did you do a formal Step 5 more than once? I'm confused in turn about why one would do that, as we've already discussed in relation to 4.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
no, i did not do a formal step 5 more than once. some people do. and sorry for getting confused about this again and asking again; i know you have done the steps before but sometimes think it sounds like you are doing them officially again...and then i ask. i can't always remember exactly specifically what you are doing, and when i read about something being done as an alternative to a step, that made me think it is being done instead of.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Gotcha.
I was doing the steps over again with my last sponsor but got stuck in confusion over why I'd do 4/5 again, not six months after the first time. After consulting with some fine folks here including yourself, I came to the conclusion that it didn't make sense to do 4 again.
The first time I met with my new sponsor, I conveyed this story to her. Perhaps the third time I met with her she suggested that I do 5 over again with her so she could get to know me better, using that previous 4. I was amenable to this, saying "spoiler alert - it's fear." When the subject came up again the next time we met, I suggested that a better way to get to know me would be to hear my story. My reasoning was that talking about the inventory wouldn't mean a lot without context. So it wasn't an alternative to 5, it was an alternative to how to get to know me.
And that seems to have been effective, though it did take a lot out of me.
I was doing the steps over again with my last sponsor but got stuck in confusion over why I'd do 4/5 again, not six months after the first time. After consulting with some fine folks here including yourself, I came to the conclusion that it didn't make sense to do 4 again.
The first time I met with my new sponsor, I conveyed this story to her. Perhaps the third time I met with her she suggested that I do 5 over again with her so she could get to know me better, using that previous 4. I was amenable to this, saying "spoiler alert - it's fear." When the subject came up again the next time we met, I suggested that a better way to get to know me would be to hear my story. My reasoning was that talking about the inventory wouldn't mean a lot without context. So it wasn't an alternative to 5, it was an alternative to how to get to know me.
And that seems to have been effective, though it did take a lot out of me.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Tatsy, I'm shocked you of the frontal cortex would say such a thing.
I'm controlling my narrative, not any other person. Should K have said, "No, I think that's out of order," then we would've talked about that. I made a suggestion, she thought it was a good idea.
AND she has made it clear that everything she suggests is literally a suggestion, not some veiled command to tell me how to work my program.
I'm good with that. Really, really good. What is your concern?
I'm controlling my narrative, not any other person. Should K have said, "No, I think that's out of order," then we would've talked about that. I made a suggestion, she thought it was a good idea.
AND she has made it clear that everything she suggests is literally a suggestion, not some veiled command to tell me how to work my program.
I'm good with that. Really, really good. What is your concern?
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