Obladi

Thanks, fini! It does look great on me - even I can see that.

"Triggered" can mean lots of things, right? I might be (have been) triggered to have a panic attack or to run from my current environment or into a deep funk. I don't know that one can be protected from such an event, but each of us is responsible for "developing and grasping a manner of living" that keeps us sane and safe in the face of those "triggers."

I don't need (or mostly even desire) anyone to do that for me either, but plenty of people seem to feel that they do. What're you gonna do, right?

i realized yesterday where my confusion is with doing step 4 over again so soon. See, I understand the steps are in order for a r reason, but also believe they're fluid and that there's no reason not to "promptly admit" our wrongs and right them beginning immediately. I've been practicing this principle for at least several years now. No doubt it hasn't been perfect, but let's say I've been doing that to the best of my ability since the last step 4. In fact, since leaving rehab, I added the exercise of doing an inventory in writing just about every night. I can see that there's probably some value in doing a big clean from time to time just to make sure there's not anything stuffed in the closet that I forgot about. I don't think there is anything new that has come up (aside from that fear- based behavior impacting those already on my ammends list), but certainly will get the swiffer out just to be sure.

I'm not saying I'm perfect by any means, but my conscience is actually clear. And that feels good.

fini

Yes.
i see it that way also: if you did step four honestly and thoroughly, and practice the prompt admit and righting, there is no reason to do another four. It would make no sense.
i hadn't fully grasped that you had done this thoroughly.

Dropsie

I have something to highly recommend. I happened on this Ted Talk yesterday, and I think it is amazing.

Feelings: Handle them before they handle you | Mandy Saligari | TEDxGuildford - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD4O7ama3o8

She is an addictions therapist and does a lot of work on both addressing and preventing addiction.

She sees the source of addition to most often be related to disfunction in how our self esteem and how we address vulnerabillty.

She defines self esteem as I how I feel about myself and therefore how I treat myself and therefore how I treat myself, which I thought was a good definition.

Addiction is turning to something outside of ourselves to fix how we feel about ourselves to the determent of ourselves. Its outsourcing or delegating our emotional process on to something else that backfires.

For many addicts, we have a problem with being vulnerable and turn to our DOC to address that vulnerability. Our experience of our vulnerability is what makes us need to control how the worlds see us, perceives us, and we address that though our addiction.

So here is what it make me think about for you O. As one of your besties on this board for many years, it seems like a relapse is often linked to a breakthrough of some sort on the psychological front.

I know from my own experience, that these kinds of breakthroughs are hard to process, so we want to get rid and that and risk doing it by delegating that to our addiction.

For example, over the last week I have had a total emotional block about doing some things I need to do. In the old days, I would certainly have drunk over that. Today, I just gotta figure it out, but it always comes down to not wanting to be vulnerable.

For other people, the emotions or emotions they are delegating to the booze may be others, but I see systematically that this is part of the addiction cycle for everyone I know.

This is the similar to what Dode's is saying too, but the 20 minutes is totally worthy of your time.

Obladi

We did "check-ins" at the house meeting tonight. I honored my previous commitment to mostly keep my mouth shut in response to others' shares. Guess what I noticed? One woman acted like she was a therapist running the group and the house manager had something to say in response to almost every person, primarily turning the focus back to herself each time. Hm. This observing stuff is... interesting.

I had actually fallen asleep in my room and woke up exactly on time for the meeting. We got a little talking to about needing to be seated in the room 5 minutes prior to meetings. Ho hum.

It's been quite a week, man.

Drops, I spent a good amount of time with my good pal Brene Brown after listening to the talk you referenced. Thanks! It made for a good afternoon of thinking. xo

Also, I am piecing together that my addictions/compulsions are linked a'la Dode's thinking. I fit the profile of a "profoundly impacted" adult child of an alcoholic as well as a person with love addiction. No surprise there - the surprise to me is that I resisted the link for so long. I minimized all of this, thinking I was jumping from one self-diagnosed pathology to the next like a person seeking attention, but I didn't seek attention for any of it directly. And also guess what about that? I don't feel like running away. Maybe tomorrow... keep an eye on the door.

entropy1964

Hey O

I need to do a whole lot more observing than talking. Especially with respect to my kid. I'm getting better but have much room for improvement. What do they say, we have 2 ears and 1 mouth? Haha.

Carpeting going in upstairs. Holy cow they may actually finish this remodel....I'll believe that when I see it.

Gonna fly to Cali tomorrow. That should be interesting. Masks and temperature checks and what not. I'm the person that has to pee every hour......I'll have to hold it on the plane. 2 hour flight. Haha. Hopefully they will actually have the middle seat open, as they advertise. But there is no 'law' requiring them to do so. Oh well. Can't wait to be driving back home....maybe to a house that won't have random people in it non stop. That is getting very very very old.

You sound good. I'd have been tossed from the sober living house months ago. Lol.

Obladi

Hey, Flips. Safe travels and may your biggest irritation turn out to be a full bladder!

I know this is a big thing, love. I'll keep up the positive energy pointed in your direction.

Funny story about sober living. The house manager has revised her opinion and I am now a fine person. She told me today that the reason she started out so snippy when I first got here was that my reputation had preceded me. Remember that young woman who was at rehab with me and moved here before I did? The one I helped to get a job, gave her rides to and from her job, and took to the emergency room when a pole fell on her head? The one who ultimately got kicked out of here for a bad attitude? Well...

She had told the house manager that I was going to fight her at every turn because I had a problem with authority.

So, hm. The only interaction I had with this young lady at rehab was banter in the smoke hut. Mostly she goofed off and was loud and... she had absolutely no basis to know "what" I was like. And yet for some reason she thought she'd poison the well before I got here.

Wow, talk about a glaring example of it not being about me. At. All.

What a topsy turvy world.

I am speaking up on Facebook again. Mostly reading, researching and posting links to reputable sources for information. It's not much, but it's something. I'd rather go out and DO something. Maybe this weekend...

fini

well....it tells you something about the house manager person

fini

how’s the new -uncharted-fifth-month territory looking, O?

Obladi

It's looking challenging, fini. So far, I'm rising to the occasion.

Had a thing with middlest yesterday. She's still not talking with me, but informed me via text that her friend was going to be making use of my property - after she'd already given her friend permission to do so. She actually answered the phone when I called her, and it came to light (because I asked) that she is still angry with me, about "lots of things she's not ready to talk about yet." She was crying when she hung up on me and refused to answer the phone or respond to my additional messages. She has plenty to be angry about without a doubt. I wish she'd just speak with me about them, but she may not be able to speak with me for a very long time. Did I think about drinking? Sure. For a few moments I thought that it didn't make sense to stay sober if she wasn't going to love me anyway.

I called eldest to bemoan this for a bit and she let me go on for maybe a couple of minutes, checked in to see where I was (I'm sure to make sure I wasn't running), then told me in a matter-of-fact way that she wasn't going to get involved in this drama. I said ok, then we talked about her second day at her new job that went really wonderfully for her and that was great. Great to hear about how her day went, great that she set a boundary, great that I could accommodate for that.

House manager just had a blow-out with one of the other women. It was over-the-top, and I told the other woman that (after house manager stormed out). House manager is facing her own set of challenges right now including making plans to move out, so I understand what's going on, but that's no reason to lose her temper and raise her voice over a minor infraction. This will all pass...

I was writing this morning and for some reason I realized the issue I have had thus far with being sponsored! It's this: we are advised in the program to focus on "keeping our side of the street clean" and "not taking inventory for others." But haven't they been taking my inventory when they tell me about myself and how I need to change? I think they have.

I don't think I would have been able to even see this had I not taken this deliberate step of thinking very deliberately about when I speak up and what I'm trying to say about myself when I do.

More and more, I'm becoming a fan of just "being."
It's hard (really hard), but it sure as hell beats the alternative of escaping through the use of self-anesthetization.

fini

you make a good point about inventory-taking, O. it hit me, while reading it, that my sponsor never did that. they listened well and respectfully to hear the changes that i felt i needed to make instead of telling me anything i needed to change.
they did at times ask me if i had considered a, b and c or if i would consider d, e and f...they made open-ended suggestions.
i know i know...that doesn’t help you right now.
so much of what you write about sponsor and house manager sounds like pseudo- parenting, as if they feel in an “adult” spot vs your juvenile one.

Obladi

Oh, but it does help, fini. Being understood is an enormous comfort to me. And now that I wrote that, I think another layer just peeled off the onion - being believed might actually be closer to my need. In general, anyhow. Maybe something like... my deepest desire is the intimacy of being understood and loved through that understanding, but if "you" can't understand me, could you please refrain from redefining me to suit your needs?

I have to let that simmer for awhile to see if it's "true," but at this very moment it feels like it just may be so.

With regard to house manager, sponsor, and virtually all of the step people around here; yes, so much of what I hear is taking inventory. In meetings, generally of themselves - one on one, of their perception of my perceived defects.

Parting shot from house manager whilst storming out the door yesterday is a case in point. She literally yelled, "If you have an issue with it, take it up with your sponsor. Search within yourself for what the problem is here."

Then there have been all of the times I've struggled trying to understand one concept or another and a person has responded, "Sounds like you're still trying to control," or "you think too much" or "you're getting in your own way" or "you haven't surrendered" or (with a sad shake of the head) "you must not be ready yet." Literally, I make a statement or ask a question, and the response is prefaced by (or is entirely) a definition or labeling of me.

Wow.

You never know when your insight might help another, fini.

fini

yeah...
i hear you, i think, on the wanting to be understood. for me, it is being "heard", which , hm, ja, is kinda the same thing.
though i have no expectation to be loved through being understood.
i think people throwing those statements at you, or at anyone, is usually an indicator that they want not to have to take time to really listen. and maybe fear that listening might ask something of them that they are not willing to look at.
i'm saying that because that is what is going on with me when i use such pat phrases: i don't want to hear, and i certainly don't want to "see".

Obladi

It's really big (in a humble way) of you to acknowledge that about yourself, fini. I've only just now arrived at the point of understanding that most of what people say about me is not about me, not really. Next step is to notice when I do the same thing, because I'm quite certain that I do, even though I'd bet that it's cloaked in humor or sarcasm or intellectualism (nothing so blatant as "you" statements unless I intend to lash out at someone).

As is typical for me, I woke up around 5am. House manager was up before me, finishing up with packing her car. She walked past me a dozen times and said nothing aside from an indistinguishable response to my morning greeting. Got in her car without a word annnnnnd - she no longer lives here.

Weird. Good. The tension in the house over the past couple of days has been palpable. Which I am only just now feeling. Like a hangover. Or maybe like an infant who just got a shot. You know, they are absolutely still for a moment while the message travels to their brain, and then they wail. Sort of like that.

fini

yes, sounds a weird and strange departure.
maybe not the best job for this person.
never mind; there will be new and different to adjust to.
for all the residents and the new manager.

Obladi

The new house manager is chill, man. And since she lived in this place with previous house manager, she understands I'm a bit shell-shocked. People have relaxed just a bit, but it's so noticeable - dishes in the sink while my roommate ate the lunch she just cooked! Unheard of! Laundry in the dryer while another roommate was at work! Wild! Someone turned the temperature up and didn't get her hand slapped! We're all going to go to hell in a hand-basket, I tell ya.

Nevertheless, yesterday evening a rough one for me. Dunno why. Had a really great text conversation with eldest who is now planning to rehome in stages. Went on a fun field trip to the store to chaperone this other roommate who is grounded on the weekends. For 5 weekends. Yikes. But still... I don't know what it was. Ohhhhhh you know what? I think I do. Sponsor sent me a chat during the Zoom meeting suggesting maybe we could chat today if I had time. I pretended I didn't see it. So, yeah, I need to call her.

But guess what? A woman appeared in my early morning meeting today and said something that made me think, "She probably would be able to 'get' me." I asked for her number, we spoke for an hour, and I have a new sponsor. Just. Like. That. Well not really just like that - it took awhile to find her, but then I did. And I am pretty gratified. We'll see how things go. I did make sure to give her a feel for my thought processes and she seems to be on the same wavelength. Doesn't "do" shallow. Has no idea what I "should" think or believe, but she's happy to suggest ideas. Well, hot dog.

fini

hot dog indeed.
that’s a bunch of changes! so now you will need to chat with your “old” sponsor for sure....ready?
glad to hear you found someone you feel “gets” you better, and that new house manager seems more relaxed.
i had to smile a little while reading how the relaxed part looks, because it popped into my head that you might end up missing the more clear-cut rules of the previous one after a while.
but i bet i’m projecting!

Obladi

Yes. I will try to find the emotional backbone and call previous sponsor today. Just have to meditate/pray on finding the right words. I know she and the other women in the program around here are always careful to SAY "If it's not working out, you won't hurt my feelings by moving along." Jeez, that sounds so advanced and Grymt-ish. I love the sentiment but in real life suspect sponsor and I will never have a conversation of any substance ever again. Which is really ok with me. Not sardonically ok, just "ok." But. I suspect she will say the right words and actually be hurt in a way that blames me and my insistence on doing it my way. It's none of my business, really. I just want to be impeccable with my word a la Miguel Ruiz and his Toltec teaching.

fini, truthfully I was a bit uncomfortable with that relaxing of behavior. That might continue for a bit because I DO find comfort in clear-cut boundaries - once I flounder around enough to find them. I feel somehow righteous, like a good girl when I know them, follow them and can cite them to others. But that's control, right? The line between good orderly behavior and seeking to control others to conform is hard to make out sometimes.

I had to check myself yesterday to refrain from making any comment at all about those dishes in the sink. My tone would have been affectionate to the recipient but sarcastically aimed at the departed house manager. That's an unhealthy attachment. Fun, maybe, in a "tear her down to make myself feel better" kind of way. But that doesn't align with my values.

I think I maybe went far beyond what you meant by one day possibly missing that order. But as my therapist might say, "There's a lot to unpack there." There is, though. Me and how I relate to others one on one, me and how I relate to human systems small and large, me and how I seek the "right kind" of control outside of myself.

hmmm

fini

O, i know nothing about Toltec teachings, but i do know that as an AA sponsor, your "old" one has access to principles for "I suspect she will say the right words and actually be hurt in a way that blames me and my insistence on doing it my way. " this kind of stuff.
and yes, this kind of stuff can hurt though be said so easily, and i definitely remember wondering if my sponsor person would blame me and my decision to do step 5 with someone else... and then also knowing that if they had real issues with that, as in insurmountable or forever altering, then they were not the right sponsor for me.
you have plenty of backbone. i have no doubt about that. it comes through loud and clear.
and also, backbone doesn't mean your legs might not be a bit shaky.
strong spine, wobbly knees

i, too, find it easier to live with clear-cut boundaries, with myself and others. though then i will go chafe and protest! such contradictions.
a good way i heard that put once is that rules are kinda like guardrails on a bridge: if there are no rails, we tend to drive down the middle. with rails in place, we feel fine driving in any lane.

Obladi

Hey fini, I don't know what this means? I mean, I know what the words mean, but I don't know what you're getting at. Can you please clarify?

I do have a backbone. Found it again recently - it had been misplaced. I'm gonna put an ID tag on it in case I lose it again. It's actually been strengthened by a degree of emotional security that I haven't seen for a very long time, and even then it was fleeting. This business of "letting go with love" is hard to get the hang of to begin with, but once learned it seems that it may be hard to unlearn. Thank God.

In mentioning Toltec teachings, I was referencing "The Four Agreements," a powerful little book by Don MIguel Ruiz. It was assigned reading from my counselor at Rehab #1. Whatever mixed feelings or recollections or attachments I still hold for her, I am indebted to her for handing me this book. This, plus "The Gifts of Imperfection" (Brene Brown), combined with some very challenging situations led me to begin to really see that when others are disturbed by me, it's not really about me. And vice versa. Which doesn't absolve them or me from our moral obligation to be decent human beings, but it does relieve some of the pressure of feeling that I have to do that perfectly, without causing offense.

Eldest called yesterday to say, "It only took a week, but it happened. Guess." And went on to say she was fired! Just kidding!! Lord. I don't even know what actually did happen. She told me but I was so distracted by her "joke" that I didn't retain that information.

I'm behind on work again. Too distracted by current events - it's hard to focus.

Obladi

I feel good.
I feel a little bit tired of this home.
Not because of anything aside from the same cabin fever many of us are suffering that are still in Phase I restrictions.

I feel like maybe I could start working from my home some days of the week.
It would be a change of scenery.
I could see how it "feels."

I promise there is nothing I'm running from. In fact, I might be sort of retrenching (entrenching?) because I'm sure middlest will still want to move in with me in October although she is currently so angry with me that she is unable/unwilling to talk with me. The other day, once I fully reconciled to her emotional distance, almost my next immediate thought was, "Maybe I should just stay at this sober home place until middlest is done using my home next winter." Right this moment, it feels like the thought of staying might actually be a different form of running. If that makes sense.

I said I'd ask for advice next time I thought about this.
What do you think?