AA Meetings & Coronavirus
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,384
Originally Posted by Grungehead 
I happen to be one of those people that fall into the category of "it's mostly dangerous to" due to "other health conditions", and my doctors have told me for many years to treat the regular flu as a serious threat to my health. So I think it's a stretch to consider this virus as a "hoax". While still low the mortality rate appears to be around ten times that of the regular flu.
The other thing to consider, even if you are young and healthy, are the odds of passing the virus to someone who is not. Since this virus is novel it seems to be more virulent, as no one has any built up any natural immunity to it. So it may be true that the average person is at low risk of experiencing serious symptoms from this virus, but do you really want to be the one who passed it along to someone who isn't "the average person"?
I'm in my late 50's and have had 2 open heart surgeries. I also have a couple of parts that are not OEM keeping me running. I have also had bronchitis twice this winter, so I'm taking the virus very serious as it seems my immune system is not at 100%. That doesn't mean I'm panicking, just being prudent. For now I am skipping meetings and doing the social distancing thing. I am not sponsoring anyone atm which has made that decision a bit easier.
I don't think we've seen the worst of this pandemic yet, but I do have hope that it may wane over the summer months. If it does that will buy everyone some time to come to understand what we are dealing with a bit better and hopefully get closer to developing a vaccine.
The other thing to consider, even if you are young and healthy, are the odds of passing the virus to someone who is not. Since this virus is novel it seems to be more virulent, as no one has any built up any natural immunity to it. So it may be true that the average person is at low risk of experiencing serious symptoms from this virus, but do you really want to be the one who passed it along to someone who isn't "the average person"?
I'm in my late 50's and have had 2 open heart surgeries. I also have a couple of parts that are not OEM keeping me running. I have also had bronchitis twice this winter, so I'm taking the virus very serious as it seems my immune system is not at 100%. That doesn't mean I'm panicking, just being prudent. For now I am skipping meetings and doing the social distancing thing. I am not sponsoring anyone atm which has made that decision a bit easier.
I don't think we've seen the worst of this pandemic yet, but I do have hope that it may wane over the summer months. If it does that will buy everyone some time to come to understand what we are dealing with a bit better and hopefully get closer to developing a vaccine.
Maybe the word hoax was the wrong word to use. I guess overhyped is the better word. By all means take precautions. The most effective precaution is washing your hands, especially after you’ve been out in public. And do it before you touch your face. Some people are avoiding crowds as much as possible. And I don’t blame you, especially if you’ve already had bronchitis twice and heart issues.
But if everyone took this position and avoided meetings, who would be there for the suffering alcoholic who badly needs a meeting or even sober people who need a meeting who might be vulnerable to picking up a drink again? That alone could cause people to die or get others killed or hurt from drunk related issues such as drunk driving.
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
Originally Posted by uncle holmes
Many experts are now saying the 3.4% of fatality rates for covid-19 are inflated because many people probably had it and didn’t even realize it and weren’t counted. Covid-19 has killed 3200 people so far. The flu kills 250,000-650,000 every year. Both the flu and covid-19 can cause pneumonia. Much misinformation spreads on twitter and the media. It would be unwise to believe everything you here.
Maybe the word hoax was the wrong word to use. I guess overhyped is the better word. By all means take precautions. The most effective precaution is washing your hands, especially after you’ve been out in public. And do it before you touch your face. Some people are avoiding crowds as much as possible. And I don’t blame you, especially if you’ve already had bronchitis twice and heart issues.
But if everyone took this position and avoided meetings, who would be there for the suffering alcoholic who badly needs a meeting or even sober people who need a meeting who might be vulnerable to picking up a drink again? That alone could cause people to die or get others killed or hurt from drunk related issues such as drunk driving.
I agree that the coverage of Covid-19 by the MSM has been "typical" (to keep my language forum friendly
). When the outbreak in Wuhan first happened the MSM either ignored or downplayed what was happening. Now that the virus is here they are overplaying it. I've researched the Spanish flu and I see some patterns. I also see that we (we being the world in general) haven't learned much from it. And you know the old saying, "Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it" (Churchill's version). It was also the 2nd wave of the Spanish flu that killed the majority of people. China is already trying to force their people to get back to work. If that happens I see a 2nd wave there, and it will be devastating. Lastly, I see your point concerning being there for the alcoholic that still suffers. I'm sure if I was not in the "at risk" group I would probably have a somewhat different outlook concerning this situation. Unfortunately I am in the "at risk" group and I'm only following advice that my surgeon and cardiologists have been giving me for years concerning viruses in general. Having somewhat of a medical background (was a pharmacy technician for 15 years in a hospital setting + worked as a technician certifying clean rooms for several years) I have a pretty good understanding of viruses and best practices to protect oneself from them and from spreading them to others.
I personally think avoiding holding hands at the end of meetings is a reasonable action to take. When it comes to slowing the spread of infection it's usually a multi-layered approach, and avoiding unnecessary contact with others is one of those layers. I agree that washing your hands often, especially after being out in public may be the most important thing you can do to avoid infection...assuming you can avoid touching your face before you are able to wash them. Avoiding the contact in the first place just makes your odds of avoiding the virus that much better.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
Posts: 5,095
Each person has to do what is right for them. Whatever that is. But always thinking of 'that other person' I could infect is more important to me than anything else. Well, I like to protect me too. Just being honest.
Whether this is being underplayed or overplayed who knows. It is real however and it is new. That means, I think, that until there is a vaccine (a year?) the virus will be among us. That means many many people will get it. Maybe it slows down for a while as the weather warms. Then picks up again. But without antibodies we are all susceptible. Or that's my take. If it acts like past new viruses it will do what a virus does: infect and probably morph. So maybe more than 1 strain?
Anyway, its here. Most of us will get it at one point. Just like the flu. But that's just my POV.
Whether this is being underplayed or overplayed who knows. It is real however and it is new. That means, I think, that until there is a vaccine (a year?) the virus will be among us. That means many many people will get it. Maybe it slows down for a while as the weather warms. Then picks up again. But without antibodies we are all susceptible. Or that's my take. If it acts like past new viruses it will do what a virus does: infect and probably morph. So maybe more than 1 strain?
Anyway, its here. Most of us will get it at one point. Just like the flu. But that's just my POV.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
I've personally never been a big AAer but do like to go to various recovery meetings sometimes, AA being one of them. I've never been a fan of the handholding though (just personal preference) and think that it is up to every individual to decide whether they want to participate in a regular, coronavirus-free situation.
I believe it is a symbol, which does not necessarily need to become physical for everyone. We can still be involved in the community and spirit by heart. In the current situation, I also support minimizing risk in general, without any extra burden to be anxious about even more things... it is just common sense IMO. As mentioned above, there are people who may have extra vulnerability due to underlying conditions, and it can make some sense to assume that some alcoholics might carry extra health risk. But even without that assumption... Why to attempt precipitating anything if it can be very easily avoided? It might be a personal decision in principle but, IMO, it should also be community consideration, especially in areas that have above-average transmission risks due to population density and other factors, such as where I live.
I believe it is a symbol, which does not necessarily need to become physical for everyone. We can still be involved in the community and spirit by heart. In the current situation, I also support minimizing risk in general, without any extra burden to be anxious about even more things... it is just common sense IMO. As mentioned above, there are people who may have extra vulnerability due to underlying conditions, and it can make some sense to assume that some alcoholics might carry extra health risk. But even without that assumption... Why to attempt precipitating anything if it can be very easily avoided? It might be a personal decision in principle but, IMO, it should also be community consideration, especially in areas that have above-average transmission risks due to population density and other factors, such as where I live.
Sobriety is Traditional
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Orcas Island, Washington
Posts: 9,067
I just counted the cash from last week's AA meetings, which included opening envelopes that had been licked shut. I washed my hands thoroughly when I was finished, and sanitized my computer keyboard. I may have touched something else somewhere, but I DID NOT TOUCH MY FACE.
As far as meetings go, I think we will largely be following the lead of our landlord, which is a church. They may decide not to allow public gatherings.
As far as meetings go, I think we will largely be following the lead of our landlord, which is a church. They may decide not to allow public gatherings.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 1,068
Originally Posted by uncle holmes
But if everyone took this position and avoided meetings, who would be there for the suffering alcoholic who badly needs a meeting or even sober people who need a meeting who might be vulnerable to picking up a drink again? That alone could cause people to die or get others killed or hurt from drunk related issues such as drunk driving.
In some cases we may not have a choice. Its possible some host churches will cancel our AA meetings for some period of time. We simply do not know how bad this will get. So going back to my original suggestion. Tell your AA friends about this great website and forums. They may need it for support if their favorite AA meeting gets canceled.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
You can still keep in touch and meet with a select few people from AA one-on-one or in a smaller group, outside of the regular meeting venue. Even establish a new routine and gestures of union in those smaller gatherings if that is helpful. I think the idea is to avoid having larger/frequent meetings (of any kind) and prolonged, especially physical contact.
As for hosts (e.g. church) cancelling, I think part of it is that no one would want to take blind responsibility for risky events they don't even organize, which makes sense IMO.
As for hosts (e.g. church) cancelling, I think part of it is that no one would want to take blind responsibility for risky events they don't even organize, which makes sense IMO.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,384
This weekend, March 13-15, 2020, my wife and I will be attending an AA convention in Detroit, MI where they have wonderful national speakers and AA/Al-Anon workshops! The attendance is usually at least a thousand people!
I gave one of the AA offices in the area a call to see if this convention is still going on due to the Coronavirus. They said as far as they know they haven’t heard anything about it being cancelled.
It should be interesting to see how they conduct this gathering as far as announcements on hand holding and if the attendance is lower.
We attend these conferences every year and both get much out of it. Everyone’s attendance is important! Many suffering alcoholics and people in early sobriety could very well avoid drinking that weekend and possibly for good by attending this conference!
I asked myself if I should should skip this conference because of Coronavirus or attend and make a difference in others sobriety as well as helping my recovery. There aren’t that many cases in Michigan yet so I would have to say it’s safe to go.
I gave one of the AA offices in the area a call to see if this convention is still going on due to the Coronavirus. They said as far as they know they haven’t heard anything about it being cancelled.
It should be interesting to see how they conduct this gathering as far as announcements on hand holding and if the attendance is lower.
We attend these conferences every year and both get much out of it. Everyone’s attendance is important! Many suffering alcoholics and people in early sobriety could very well avoid drinking that weekend and possibly for good by attending this conference!
I asked myself if I should should skip this conference because of Coronavirus or attend and make a difference in others sobriety as well as helping my recovery. There aren’t that many cases in Michigan yet so I would have to say it’s safe to go.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,384
Originally Posted by Dee74
Detroit is hosting it this July. With that many people attending and from around the world, it should be interesting to see how they’re going to handle that one if this Coronavirus is still causing this much fear.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
[QUOTE=Grungehead;7398738]I h
The other thing to consider, even if you are young and healthy, are the odds of passing the virus to someone who is not. /QUOTE]
That is the thing to consider alright.
As an aside, I was at a meeting out of town last Xmas, where one older member had decided he would no longer hold hands because he discovered, historically, that the hand holding was an import from the rehab industry and never done in the original groups.
The other thing to consider, even if you are young and healthy, are the odds of passing the virus to someone who is not. /QUOTE]
That is the thing to consider alright.
As an aside, I was at a meeting out of town last Xmas, where one older member had decided he would no longer hold hands because he discovered, historically, that the hand holding was an import from the rehab industry and never done in the original groups.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
So, now we have a bigger situation right where I am in the metro Atlanta area. My husband is at the top of one of the largest public school systems and a teacher who works what they call an itinerant position so she's at two schools next to each other alternately, and she tested positive. All 106 schools in the system are closed today. 6 total cases have been identified in GA, according to what I've heard.
The school system thing is among the most concerning to me, as it affects just about everyone because we all "touch" something related or someone involved in it. TBD on everything of course and I am finding it a bit much to keep up with everything. ALSO if they shut down for x days then they have to be made up - this always creates problems in many ways (like in the years such as 2018 when winter created this problem). Parents and kids being at home also creates the scenario where yes, most grade levels do have ipads, it's diff for elem and continued learning and so on. Needless to say, the 5 am phone calls and 9p getting home every day as everything keeps unfolding is taking a toll on my husband and all the decision makers!
Today's news suggestions were good- besides the obv hand thing - which notably, experts said that cold water is ok if necessary and regular soap too (ie we are either out of hand wash or most places limiting it to 2 per customer).
Try to support small local businesses as usual since they depend more on the daily income as well as aren't as "crowded.' Age based intelligence based on where you go. Etc.
As far as AA goes, it's the least of my concerns- also, you don't even have to stay for the closing prayer or be in the circle at all if you don't feel comfortable.
The school system thing is among the most concerning to me, as it affects just about everyone because we all "touch" something related or someone involved in it. TBD on everything of course and I am finding it a bit much to keep up with everything. ALSO if they shut down for x days then they have to be made up - this always creates problems in many ways (like in the years such as 2018 when winter created this problem). Parents and kids being at home also creates the scenario where yes, most grade levels do have ipads, it's diff for elem and continued learning and so on. Needless to say, the 5 am phone calls and 9p getting home every day as everything keeps unfolding is taking a toll on my husband and all the decision makers!
Today's news suggestions were good- besides the obv hand thing - which notably, experts said that cold water is ok if necessary and regular soap too (ie we are either out of hand wash or most places limiting it to 2 per customer).
Try to support small local businesses as usual since they depend more on the daily income as well as aren't as "crowded.' Age based intelligence based on where you go. Etc.
As far as AA goes, it's the least of my concerns- also, you don't even have to stay for the closing prayer or be in the circle at all if you don't feel comfortable.
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 255
Originally Posted by August252015
So, now we have a bigger situation right where I am in the metro Atlanta area. My husband is at the top of one of the largest public school systems and a teacher who works what they call an itinerant position so she's at two schools next to each other alternately, and she tested positive. All 106 schools in the system are closed today. 6 total cases have been identified in GA, according to what I've heard.
The school system thing is among the most concerning to me, as it affects just about everyone because we all "touch" something related or someone involved in it. TBD on everything of course and I am finding it a bit much to keep up with everything. ALSO if they shut down for x days then they have to be made up - this always creates problems in many ways (like in the years such as 2018 when winter created this problem). Parents and kids being at home also creates the scenario where yes, most grade levels do have ipads, it's diff for elem and continued learning and so on. Needless to say, the 5 am phone calls and 9p getting home every day as everything keeps unfolding is taking a toll on my husband and all the decision makers!
Today's news suggestions were good- besides the obv hand thing - which notably, experts said that cold water is ok if necessary and regular soap too (ie we are either out of hand wash or most places limiting it to 2 per customer).
Try to support small local businesses as usual since they depend more on the daily income as well as aren't as "crowded.' Age based intelligence based on where you go. Etc.
As far as AA goes, it's the least of my concerns- also, you don't even have to stay for the closing prayer or be in the circle at all if you don't feel comfortable.
The school system thing is among the most concerning to me, as it affects just about everyone because we all "touch" something related or someone involved in it. TBD on everything of course and I am finding it a bit much to keep up with everything. ALSO if they shut down for x days then they have to be made up - this always creates problems in many ways (like in the years such as 2018 when winter created this problem). Parents and kids being at home also creates the scenario where yes, most grade levels do have ipads, it's diff for elem and continued learning and so on. Needless to say, the 5 am phone calls and 9p getting home every day as everything keeps unfolding is taking a toll on my husband and all the decision makers!
Today's news suggestions were good- besides the obv hand thing - which notably, experts said that cold water is ok if necessary and regular soap too (ie we are either out of hand wash or most places limiting it to 2 per customer).
Try to support small local businesses as usual since they depend more on the daily income as well as aren't as "crowded.' Age based intelligence based on where you go. Etc.
As far as AA goes, it's the least of my concerns- also, you don't even have to stay for the closing prayer or be in the circle at all if you don't feel comfortable.
As for the topic, me and my friends at the bottom, will just fist-bump people. That seems to be the way to go at this point.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
I'm not sure I understand the criticism and certainly wasn't bragging- my point is that the school system affects everyone and it's hard to know what to do. And a small thing (in my recovery, a huge thing), like a meeting isn't a big concern bc we've all just shared ways to be as careful as we can.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,384
I want to apologize for saying the covid-19 is a hoax and overhyped. I'm sure everyone has heard by now that it's a global pandemic with no vaccine available for at least a year!
The AA convention that I registered to go to this weekend in Detroit, Mi has been cancelled! Take all precautions in doing our part in not spreading this virus even more!
The AA convention that I registered to go to this weekend in Detroit, Mi has been cancelled! Take all precautions in doing our part in not spreading this virus even more!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 1,068
UH - thanks for the note. Actually it may be overhyped but it's certainly not a hoax. I think your initial reaction was understandable. There is a lot of uncertainty in this situation. Are we overreacting as a society? Only time will tell but in my view it seem like being cautious and cancelling events is the prudent thing to do at this time.
So going back to my original point. The SR forums are perfect for this situation. Safe in our homes with no exposure to the CV. We type supporting messages on our keyboards. Please tell your AA friends about this wonderful forum.
So going back to my original point. The SR forums are perfect for this situation. Safe in our homes with no exposure to the CV. We type supporting messages on our keyboards. Please tell your AA friends about this wonderful forum.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Where I live, New York, a number of meetings have closed. We stopped holding hands during the Serenity Prayer (touch elbows) and I'm avoiding meetings with more than 30 people. It's important to plan ahead and get numbers to call if the rooms close. And, AA meetings online.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Originally Posted by Nathan57
Other than brag about your husband being "at the top", and this topic is the least of your concerns, not sure what the point of your post is??
As for the topic, me and my friends at the bottom, will just fist-bump people. That seems to be the way to go at this point.
As for the topic, me and my friends at the bottom, will just fist-bump people. That seems to be the way to go at this point.
I really think it’s ok for August to be proud of her husband. I think she mentioned it because she hears a lot about what’s going down in the school systems.
I myself had quite a moment when my 13 year old’s school shut down for two weeks. It hit home.
I think people are going to make their own decisions in this matter, but I also think that the more we distance socially, even at this point; the better.
Hopefully most AA attendees have someone to call when they are having a hard time. I think it won’t be long before no one is going anywhere except work, the grocery store, or the hospital.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
I wanted to bury my head in the sand about this as long as possible but it’s becoming impossible to ignore. Schools are closed for 3 weeks here, they’ve shut down the yoga studio I go to as of today, my income is going to take a hit, I may have to postpone some of my plans for this year..
Not sure exactly if/how it will affect the housing market but lots of people had already been predicting a crash sometime this year (just a bit of illogical superstition to throw into that-the last housing crash happened while Jupiter was in Capricorn which is now the case again for the first time since then along with Saturn/Pluto) and it’s looking like it now may involve the entire economy. Interesting times.. personally I'd love to just stay home and wait for it to blow over but I'll still have to go to work so am trying not to catastrophize daily interactions too much.
Not sure exactly if/how it will affect the housing market but lots of people had already been predicting a crash sometime this year (just a bit of illogical superstition to throw into that-the last housing crash happened while Jupiter was in Capricorn which is now the case again for the first time since then along with Saturn/Pluto) and it’s looking like it now may involve the entire economy. Interesting times.. personally I'd love to just stay home and wait for it to blow over but I'll still have to go to work so am trying not to catastrophize daily interactions too much.
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