O Well?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
There goes that third person again.....
I dont agree that we cannot do both -- we can learn to live a better life on the condition that we never pick up another drink. But I totally agree that the not drinking is a necessary prerequisite for the better life.
I dont think any of us would say we need to figure our lives out first and then that will lead to not drinking. If so, then I would respectfully disagree. However, provided that we do not drink we can also try to live a better life by dealing with our other stuff.
I think the point is that we need to get solid in our not drinking before taking on too much else. What I have seen is that depends on the person, but for most that is true. Like stopping drinking and going on a diet at the same time -- all fine, but if needed, you gotta give up the keto and keepa go with the not drinking.
If you have never done so, I would check out the hip sobriety and tempest web sites. She has a cool approach and I took her class once a couple years after I stopped and I thought the holistitic approach she took was smart. But at its core it is all about NQTD -- Never Quit the Decision and then finding ways to support that.
I suppose that is the way I look at it. I stopped drinking and accepted in my core being that I could never drink again and then I found ways to support that. But if the support ever got in the way of the decision -- it hadda go. So using the trauma example, I have PTSD from my first husband. I try to fix that but if doing the work were to threaten my decison not to drink, I would take a break because I know I do not need to fix my PTSD not to drink -- I just gotta not drink.
XXX from lockdown
I dont agree that we cannot do both -- we can learn to live a better life on the condition that we never pick up another drink. But I totally agree that the not drinking is a necessary prerequisite for the better life.
I dont think any of us would say we need to figure our lives out first and then that will lead to not drinking. If so, then I would respectfully disagree. However, provided that we do not drink we can also try to live a better life by dealing with our other stuff.
I think the point is that we need to get solid in our not drinking before taking on too much else. What I have seen is that depends on the person, but for most that is true. Like stopping drinking and going on a diet at the same time -- all fine, but if needed, you gotta give up the keto and keepa go with the not drinking.
If you have never done so, I would check out the hip sobriety and tempest web sites. She has a cool approach and I took her class once a couple years after I stopped and I thought the holistitic approach she took was smart. But at its core it is all about NQTD -- Never Quit the Decision and then finding ways to support that.
I suppose that is the way I look at it. I stopped drinking and accepted in my core being that I could never drink again and then I found ways to support that. But if the support ever got in the way of the decision -- it hadda go. So using the trauma example, I have PTSD from my first husband. I try to fix that but if doing the work were to threaten my decison not to drink, I would take a break because I know I do not need to fix my PTSD not to drink -- I just gotta not drink.
XXX from lockdown
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,283
Originally Posted by Dropsie 
There goes that third person again.....
I dont agree that we cannot do both -- we can learn to live a better life on the condition that we never pick up another drink. But I totally agree that the not drinking is a necessary prerequisite for the better life.
I dont think any of us would say we need to figure our lives out first and then that will lead to not drinking. If so, then I would respectfully disagree. However, provided that we do not drink we can also try to live a better life by dealing with our other stuff.
I think the point is that we need to get solid in our not drinking before taking on too much else. What I have seen is that depends on the person, but for most that is true. Like stopping drinking and going on a diet at the same time -- all fine, but if needed, you gotta give up the keto and keepa go with the not drinking.
If you have never done so, I would check out the hip sobriety and tempest web sites. She has a cool approach and I took her class once a couple years after I stopped and I thought the holistitic approach she took was smart. But at its core it is all about NQTD -- Never Quit the Decision and then finding ways to support that.
I suppose that is the way I look at it. I stopped drinking and accepted in my core being that I could never drink again and then I found ways to support that. But if the support ever got in the way of the decision -- it hadda go. So using the trauma example, I have PTSD from my first husband. I try to fix that but if doing the work were to threaten my decison not to drink, I would take a break because I know I do not need to fix my PTSD not to drink -- I just gotta not drink.
XXX from lockdown
I dont agree that we cannot do both -- we can learn to live a better life on the condition that we never pick up another drink. But I totally agree that the not drinking is a necessary prerequisite for the better life.
I dont think any of us would say we need to figure our lives out first and then that will lead to not drinking. If so, then I would respectfully disagree. However, provided that we do not drink we can also try to live a better life by dealing with our other stuff.
I think the point is that we need to get solid in our not drinking before taking on too much else. What I have seen is that depends on the person, but for most that is true. Like stopping drinking and going on a diet at the same time -- all fine, but if needed, you gotta give up the keto and keepa go with the not drinking.
If you have never done so, I would check out the hip sobriety and tempest web sites. She has a cool approach and I took her class once a couple years after I stopped and I thought the holistitic approach she took was smart. But at its core it is all about NQTD -- Never Quit the Decision and then finding ways to support that.
I suppose that is the way I look at it. I stopped drinking and accepted in my core being that I could never drink again and then I found ways to support that. But if the support ever got in the way of the decision -- it hadda go. So using the trauma example, I have PTSD from my first husband. I try to fix that but if doing the work were to threaten my decison not to drink, I would take a break because I know I do not need to fix my PTSD not to drink -- I just gotta not drink.
XXX from lockdown
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,039
Sohard, I like what you write, and I don't think it matters whether my experience is like yours, or not. I change my mind over and over again about how I stopped drinking, just like I change my mind about why, how, and when I became a drunk. -- apparently, my mind has almost nothing to do with either. I don't know how I quit. I don't even know how I got dry. I got dry first, and slowly I've started to grow sober. So far, it's taken more than 7 years of my life just to get to where I am. I'd never say I'll never drink again. I might tomorrow.
I agree that my brain was broken -- damaged, anyway -- from being a drunk. I don't think it will ever completely heal -- it's like you never forget how to ride a bicycle. I'll always remember how to be a drunk. For more than a year after I first got dry, my brain was still deeply immersed in being an alcoholic. I should have known when all my sex-fantasies revolved around being force-fed liquor!
O, don't overthink it. You don't have to *do* anything, you certainly don't have to get anything right, you don't have to be anything for anyone (although try like we all should not to be an *******). Time will pass and you probably won't starve or make any enemies that you wouldn't have already, and the earth won't stop revolving just because you stop thinking about yourself. Just hang out and don't drink.
I agree that my brain was broken -- damaged, anyway -- from being a drunk. I don't think it will ever completely heal -- it's like you never forget how to ride a bicycle. I'll always remember how to be a drunk. For more than a year after I first got dry, my brain was still deeply immersed in being an alcoholic. I should have known when all my sex-fantasies revolved around being force-fed liquor!
O, don't overthink it. You don't have to *do* anything, you certainly don't have to get anything right, you don't have to be anything for anyone (although try like we all should not to be an *******). Time will pass and you probably won't starve or make any enemies that you wouldn't have already, and the earth won't stop revolving just because you stop thinking about yourself. Just hang out and don't drink.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,283
[QUOTE=fini;7414074]
ah; i did not realize i came across as debating and you feeling attacked.
i thought we were all having a conversation, an exchange of ideas and experiences, so to speak.
no, i do not share your beliefs, and that is indeed fine.
And i was, in fact, trying to understand them better, which is why i asked more.
In the meantime, i have understood that of course we have different "solutions", since we see our problems differently.
I am glad you found what works for you.
Gosh, I’m really sorry. I did feel attacked. I obviously misread intent over the screen. I thought you were doubting me when in reality you were just trying to understand me. Which I appreciate. I really am sorry. It’s just that I feel so strongly about my point of view because it’s saved my life. I apologize. I stand down now. 
Originally Posted by Sohard
ah; i did not realize i came across as debating and you feeling attacked.
i thought we were all having a conversation, an exchange of ideas and experiences, so to speak.
no, i do not share your beliefs, and that is indeed fine.
And i was, in fact, trying to understand them better, which is why i asked more.
In the meantime, i have understood that of course we have different "solutions", since we see our problems differently.
I am glad you found what works for you.
Life Goes On
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Sohard,
I'm debating whether to respond point-by-point or take your clearly well-intentioned message as a whole. I think I'll try doing some of each.
First off, thank you for keeping the peace here. In my many (sometimes twisted) communications with fini, I've learned that she quite literally means what she says or asks. Sometimes I jump to the "obvious" inference in the question, but it inevitably turns out there was no inference at all! This is a very good lesson in communication for me. We're all essentially the same, but getting down to that essential quality of same-ness is next to impossible because we all have layers upon layers of socialization and personal experiences that interfere with understanding.
Also, thank you for your passionate attempts to help me. I do appreciate that you are coming from a good place. It seems that you might perceive that I'm being difficult. This may be the case, but believe me it's not on purpose.
If it was true that living differently and being rid of addiction were two completely separate topics, there would be no website. Or it would be a completely different site than it is.
Scores upon scores of people say and believe that any number of "living better" programs have helped to free themselves from active addiction by learning to navigate their lives differently. I don't think you mean to be condescending when you refute what these people believe to be true based on what you believe to be true, but that is pretty audacious. Don't get me wrong - it's not unlike something I might think or say, but I'm doing my level best to put that kind of egocentric thinking in the past. (My use of the term "egocentric" here is not meant as a put-down, it's just the best word I know to describe thinking that I hold some universal truth that others can't or won't see. It can be a benevolent thought and egocentric at the same time.)
I'm so glad that worked for you! Unfortunately, as evidenced by my experience and that of countless others, mere logic doesn't do the trick for everyone. In my experience, giving in to addiction is illogical, so it doesn't make sense that anyone does it. What happens within the chemically addicted brain is clear, but knowing that doesn't completely provide the solution. For me. Knowing that rats are far less likely to become addicted when they live in rat heaven helps. Reading and listening to scientists who've established that the brain undergoes changes through meditation and connection with others helps. These scientific observations suggest that changing the brain can and does rely on multiple forms of input and experience.
I fail to see how discussing people who haven't become addicted has anything to do with how to recover from addiction. It's circular, isn't it? Reminds me of middlest saying, because she truly does not understand this thing, "I have plenty of problems, but I don't turn to vodka to solve them." Thank God! But really, the vodka wasn't the solution - it was the refuge. It offered respite from talking and thinking and thinking and talking, which believe me, is much more bothersome to me than it might be to you.
You haven't read far enough back.
Please don't, btw. I realize my stuff is out there for all to see, but the fact that there are many, many (many!) discussions here that detail my failed attempts is too much for me to handle some days.
Anyhow, yes it has come up. AVRT makes a ton of sense. CBT is also completely rational. The logic of these approaches is extremely appealing to me. If I could've "brainwashed" myself in the way you suggest, the job would have been done eight years ago.
What is the "this" you are referring to? I've been sober for two months today. I don't have any intention or desire to drink. How will I prevent the next relapse (return to drinking)? By convincing myself that my brain is addicted and any decision it makes that suggests the future use of alcohol is faulty wiring? Ok, that's done. Now how do I turn off or endure or modify or interpret the feelings that have in the past contributed to making that completely illogical decision? That's not a question for you, by the way. It's what I personally believe needs to be addressed for me to stay sober.
Perhaps that's why that sector has gone dark. Or perhaps the discussion was squashed. Or perhaps proponents of that method have ceased selling it to others. There used to be quite an active and lively discussion there that included intellectualizing far above my head. That the traffic there has diminished is no proof that those folks aren't out in the world thinking their way into doing and succeeding. And it's certainly no proof that it's working for the new folks who arrive here every day.
If I ever gave the impression I thought that my life caused me to drink, then I was dead wrong. I drank to escape. Life didn't cause that. Drinking was a maladaptive tool I used to tolerate feelings I couldn't tolerate. Addressing the abuse I suffered (rather, the related emotions and feelings that come unbidden and without my conscious knowledge) is central to my recovery, whether I mention it in every post or whether it's mentioned every 501 posts. Your example of "mexican children" is specious. How does this relate at all to your argument that all I need to do is understand my addicted brain is damaged? If we give those children knowledge explaining the psychological affect of trauma, will that remove their pain? Will it prevent them from becoming addicted? Of course not.
Changing my circuitry is exactly what I am trying to do. I know it must be excruciating for some people to go through these mental contortions with me, but that's not on me. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that the discomfort or disapproval of others regarding what's going on in my brain is not my responsibility.
I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that in order to live well, I need to Not Drink. And in order to not drink, I need to learn to Live Well.
This is my truth.
Namaste.
I'm debating whether to respond point-by-point or take your clearly well-intentioned message as a whole. I think I'll try doing some of each.
First off, thank you for keeping the peace here. In my many (sometimes twisted) communications with fini, I've learned that she quite literally means what she says or asks. Sometimes I jump to the "obvious" inference in the question, but it inevitably turns out there was no inference at all! This is a very good lesson in communication for me. We're all essentially the same, but getting down to that essential quality of same-ness is next to impossible because we all have layers upon layers of socialization and personal experiences that interfere with understanding.
Also, thank you for your passionate attempts to help me. I do appreciate that you are coming from a good place. It seems that you might perceive that I'm being difficult. This may be the case, but believe me it's not on purpose.
Originally Posted by Sohard
[left]... moving from a discussion of drinking to how to be differently in your life is a non-Sequitur. They are unrelated to me... This website is called soberrecovery.com. Not learnhowtoliveabetterlife.org.
I just don’t believe that learning to live their lives differently has eliminated anyone from being in the throes of addiction, as you wrote. Even if they said it and believe it. That is just my belief. I think they are misunderstanding cause and effect. I think time eliminated their being in the throes of addiction. And then, they slowly started to live their lives differently. What made them finally decide to give themselves the time for their brain to heal, well I don’t know. Only they know.
What worked for me was basically brainwashing myself with the scientific facts.
... What more could there possibly be to learn about life? After all, most people live it without being addicted and they haven’t heard and read all this talking and writing and talking and writing about life. They’re just...living.
And of all the many, many, many discussions I have read in her threads, brainwashing herself never seems to come up.
Please don't, btw. I realize my stuff is out there for all to see, but the fact that there are many, many (many!) discussions here that detail my failed attempts is too much for me to handle some days.
Anyhow, yes it has come up. AVRT makes a ton of sense. CBT is also completely rational. The logic of these approaches is extremely appealing to me. If I could've "brainwashed" myself in the way you suggest, the job would have been done eight years ago.
I just don’t believe the talking about how to live your life differently and trying to think your way out of this has any relevance.
That’s why there’s never anyone posting over in AVRT land. They’re doing. And they’re succeeding. They are doing by ignoring their beast and saying I will never drink again and I will never change my mind.
And it's certainly no proof that it's working for the new folks who arrive here every day.
There are mexican children immigrants ripped from their families at the border who might very likely end up in abused homes. And most will not all become alcoholics. Because life is not what causes addiction, in my opinion. A broken brain does. When Obladi was actively drinking, it became all about the abuse she suffered and how she wanted to contact this person and confront him. Now there’s crickets on that. Instead now it’s all about life and the challenge to be wonderful and powerful and kind. And if life somehow could disappear, it’d then be all about yet another thing.
There is no mystery to solve. Her brain is damaged. And I for one would like her to start a recovery where she actually tries to actively change her brain circuitry as opposed to talk about life some more. And some more. And some more.
I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that in order to live well, I need to Not Drink. And in order to not drink, I need to learn to Live Well.
This is my truth.
Namaste.
Life Goes On
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Originally Posted by Dropsie
I suppose that is the way I look at it. I stopped drinking and accepted in my core being that I could never drink again and then I found ways to support that. But if the support ever got in the way of the decision -- it hadda go. So using the trauma example, I have PTSD from my first husband. I try to fix that but if doing the work were to threaten my decison not to drink, I would take a break because I know I do not need to fix my PTSD not to drink -- I just gotta not drink.
XXX from lockdown
XXX from lockdown
How's lockdown? Where are you right now?
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,283
You make some really well thought out points. Again, I meant no harm. Please know I respect you and wish you the best. And I know you’re trying damn hard. And I know you will succeed. Now I’ll stop writing because you definitely have more important things to do than to listen to me drone on. :-)
Life Goes On
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Originally Posted by courage2
O, don't overthink it. You don't have to *do* anything, you certainly don't have to get anything right, you don't have to be anything for anyone (although try like we all should not to be an *******). Time will pass and you probably won't starve or make any enemies that you wouldn't have already, and the earth won't stop revolving just because you stop thinking about yourself. Just hang out and don't drink.
What I'm trying to do is to think about my actions and behavior in relation to other people. Not drinking is a good and necessary and fundamental start. But for me, living life simply "not drinking" is meaningless - I need purpose, focus, love, meaningful human interaction.
Just to be clear: this is not to say life with drinking had any purpose at all - it was completely the opposite.
Life Goes On
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Sohard, you are as welcome here as anyone else is. I really do appreciate your desire to help and share how it works for you. Without a doubt, you have helped someone with your experience. That's what this is all about, right?
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
Posts: 5,095
Ok I'm a little lost with respect to the last couple pages of posts so I have no comment except that:
1. This is O's thread
2. O is in the room. Its one of those "I'm standing right here guys" type things if that makes sense
So Madam O, how goes it?
I know I would have a terrible time in Sober Living and again, respect the hell out of you for doing it. To me it shows an amazing willingness to really do this right. Or to just do it! No matter what.
It does sound like a nice place tho, which is great. They aren't always so nice, from what I hear. Ok so there are a lot of rules....maybe its an opportunity to be really present, challenge patterns of behavior and thought. Not so much the 'did I wash my coffee cup out and put it away' thinking, but the kind of habit changing top level thinking that helps that neuroplasticity along? I dunno. Anyway, I'm impressed.
So, stay safe. You are obviously committed. I won't drink today either!
Just adding that all your posts came through as I was tying this.....Probably didn't need to say anything really....do I ever. Haha. Just glad you are doing well and happy 60 days.
1. This is O's thread
2. O is in the room. Its one of those "I'm standing right here guys" type things if that makes sense
So Madam O, how goes it?
I know I would have a terrible time in Sober Living and again, respect the hell out of you for doing it. To me it shows an amazing willingness to really do this right. Or to just do it! No matter what.
It does sound like a nice place tho, which is great. They aren't always so nice, from what I hear. Ok so there are a lot of rules....maybe its an opportunity to be really present, challenge patterns of behavior and thought. Not so much the 'did I wash my coffee cup out and put it away' thinking, but the kind of habit changing top level thinking that helps that neuroplasticity along? I dunno. Anyway, I'm impressed.
So, stay safe. You are obviously committed. I won't drink today either!
Just adding that all your posts came through as I was tying this.....Probably didn't need to say anything really....do I ever. Haha. Just glad you are doing well and happy 60 days.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
[QUOTE=Sohard;7414085]
Gosh, I’m really sorry. I did feel attacked. I obviously misread intent over the screen. I thought you were doubting me when in reality you were just trying to understand me. Which I appreciate. I really am sorry. It’s just that I feel so strongly about my point of view because it’s saved my life. I apologize. I stand down now. hello Sohard,
thanks for this. apology accepted, and i certainly hope you won't "stand down", if that means you won't share here...not entirely sure what "standing down " means.
i do ask a lot of questions when i'm not sure i understand how the other person sees it; and sometimes i do ask more provocatively and challenge the one i'm speaking with on what they're saying. to me, that's conversation. not meant as aggression. i'm sorry it came across that way.
i love how passionately you share your own experience and are putting such intensity into posting what so clearly has helped you.
please don't shut up, if that is what you were considering
Originally Posted by fini
Gosh, I’m really sorry. I did feel attacked. I obviously misread intent over the screen. I thought you were doubting me when in reality you were just trying to understand me. Which I appreciate. I really am sorry. It’s just that I feel so strongly about my point of view because it’s saved my life. I apologize. I stand down now.
thanks for this. apology accepted, and i certainly hope you won't "stand down", if that means you won't share here...not entirely sure what "standing down " means.
i do ask a lot of questions when i'm not sure i understand how the other person sees it; and sometimes i do ask more provocatively and challenge the one i'm speaking with on what they're saying. to me, that's conversation. not meant as aggression. i'm sorry it came across that way.
i love how passionately you share your own experience and are putting such intensity into posting what so clearly has helped you.
please don't shut up, if that is what you were considering
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posts: 517
I watched adults go from being just boring old serious adults, to laughing, being much more friendly and open with each other .... their entire persona changed .
About the same age as you O ... I looked at that and thought "I cannot wait to give this stuff a go"
And sure enough that's what it did for me for years.
An instant change from worried anxious introvert to carefree adventurous extrovert and much more.
I get it 👍
About the same age as you O ... I looked at that and thought "I cannot wait to give this stuff a go"
And sure enough that's what it did for me for years.
An instant change from worried anxious introvert to carefree adventurous extrovert and much more.
I get it 👍
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Hi O,
I’m going to offer some completely nonsolicited advice for today.
Keep it simple. Just don’t do the one thing.
I think SR can be great for venting. Not so great for figuring out complex and twisted psychological conundrums. In fact, too much of that seems to lead you to drinking. SR possibly has mutated into something that’s not altogether good for your sober path.
I believe there’s too much psychotherapy in here. Psychotherapy is not alcohol recovery.
Not drinking is good. Venting is good. AND, you are in sober living! It’s great you are doing all the things to get you to peace, calm, hope and sobriety.
Too much thinking can be a dangerous thing.
I’m going to offer some completely nonsolicited advice for today.
Keep it simple. Just don’t do the one thing.
I think SR can be great for venting. Not so great for figuring out complex and twisted psychological conundrums. In fact, too much of that seems to lead you to drinking. SR possibly has mutated into something that’s not altogether good for your sober path.
I believe there’s too much psychotherapy in here. Psychotherapy is not alcohol recovery.
Not drinking is good. Venting is good. AND, you are in sober living! It’s great you are doing all the things to get you to peace, calm, hope and sobriety.
Too much thinking can be a dangerous thing.
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,039
O, I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't do the things you have to do. I guess I was just trying to encourage you not to worry about them so much! My attitude about early sober people is that you should treat yourself like you would treat a sick child. When I was getting sober, for a long time, I had a head full of mush -- except when the mush turned into a hive. Either way, it seemed like a lot of drooling. I expect I walked and talked, and even taught -- but not well. The best thing I did was set out chairs at AA meetings, lots of chairs at lots of meetings.
Did I think my sober life was meaningless? Yes. Prior to sobriety, I'd only achieved meaning = alcohol. I had to learn how to create new meaning. It took about 2 years just to get started.
Anyhow, I'm kind of confused by all of what's going on here.
Here are two questions I wouldn't need to ask if I'd done my homework on this thread -- does your current living situation use the AA program? What do you think of the steps?
Did I think my sober life was meaningless? Yes. Prior to sobriety, I'd only achieved meaning = alcohol. I had to learn how to create new meaning. It took about 2 years just to get started.
Anyhow, I'm kind of confused by all of what's going on here.
Here are two questions I wouldn't need to ask if I'd done my homework on this thread -- does your current living situation use the AA program? What do you think of the steps?
Life Goes On
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Originally Posted by Stayingsassy
Hi O,
I’m going to offer some completely nonsolicited advice for today.
Keep it simple. Just don’t do the one thing.
I think SR can be great for venting. Not so great for figuring out complex and twisted psychological conundrums. In fact, too much of that seems to lead you to drinking. SR possibly has mutated into something that’s not altogether good for your sober path.
I believe there’s too much psychotherapy in here. Psychotherapy is not alcohol recovery.
Not drinking is good. Venting is good. AND, you are in sober living! It’s great you are doing all the things to get you to peace, calm, hope and sobriety.
Too much thinking can be a dangerous thing.
I’m going to offer some completely nonsolicited advice for today.
Keep it simple. Just don’t do the one thing.
I think SR can be great for venting. Not so great for figuring out complex and twisted psychological conundrums. In fact, too much of that seems to lead you to drinking. SR possibly has mutated into something that’s not altogether good for your sober path.
I believe there’s too much psychotherapy in here. Psychotherapy is not alcohol recovery.
Not drinking is good. Venting is good. AND, you are in sober living! It’s great you are doing all the things to get you to peace, calm, hope and sobriety.
Too much thinking can be a dangerous thing.
It seems to me, as I said earlier, that it is the desire to escape my thoughts that leads me to drink. That's no longer an option. No drinking. Ever. I can do that. I cannot, however, escape my thoughts; they are just there. But I can examine them and work on redefining/reshaping them. And eventually one day maybe I will learn to simply let them go. The neural pathways will have been completely swept away. Won't that be a beautiful thing?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by Obladi
Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. I don't agree with your opinion in regard to my thought process, but I do value that you care. Bear in mind that you are all being exposed to the workings of my inner self. What you see and hear here is not what I "do" in the real world, with the notable exception of discussions with my therapist. If you are not comfortable with the rather public journaling, I certainly understand that. You can skip the knotty parts if you don't like them.
It seems to me, as I said earlier, that it is the desire to escape my thoughts that leads me to drink. That's no longer an option. No drinking. Ever. I can do that. I cannot, however, escape my thoughts; they are just there. But I can examine them and work on redefining/reshaping them. And eventually one day maybe I will learn to simply let them go. The neural pathways will have been completely swept away. Won't that be a beautiful thing?
It seems to me, as I said earlier, that it is the desire to escape my thoughts that leads me to drink. That's no longer an option. No drinking. Ever. I can do that. I cannot, however, escape my thoughts; they are just there. But I can examine them and work on redefining/reshaping them. And eventually one day maybe I will learn to simply let them go. The neural pathways will have been completely swept away. Won't that be a beautiful thing?
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
“ I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that in order to live well, I need to Not Drink. And in order to not drink, I need to learn to Live Well.”
nicely put, O.
when you say that desire to escape your thoughts leads to drink...i think this might be why several have suggested you not over-think?overthinking, for me, is an obsessive thing in itself. when i do it, i mean, and i don’t mean i obsessively do it.
it can all get convoluted pretty quickly: desire to escape thoughts, for you; desire to escape “me”, for me.
and always the sense that i am my thoughts and feelings, yet knowing that they all can go poof in an instant.
what we are, really, is possibility. hm. omg the home-staying is getting to me! i’m turning new-agey.
shut!
nicely put, O.
when you say that desire to escape your thoughts leads to drink...i think this might be why several have suggested you not over-think?overthinking, for me, is an obsessive thing in itself. when i do it, i mean, and i don’t mean i obsessively do it.
it can all get convoluted pretty quickly: desire to escape thoughts, for you; desire to escape “me”, for me.
and always the sense that i am my thoughts and feelings, yet knowing that they all can go poof in an instant.
what we are, really, is possibility. hm. omg the home-staying is getting to me! i’m turning new-agey.
shut!
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
Hey O, I have nothing of real value to add as my own brain seems to have turned to mush following the recent drastic change of events.. But will just say in spirit of fini’s new found new-agey-ness.. Yoga was a turning point for me, in being able to first allow and be still with my thoughts and then let them pass without identifying with them. This is of course, really an internal thing and I believe not all that different from what AVRT sets out to achieve.
And just for further entertainment, here’s a new-agey article I recently found to be relevant and calming
https://www.wakingtimes.com/2019/07/...n_m8D5XHE82ZBQ
And just for further entertainment, here’s a new-agey article I recently found to be relevant and calming
https://www.wakingtimes.com/2019/07/...n_m8D5XHE82ZBQ
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
Great article Cos. I was on the same wave length as Cos, as I was going to say that I have started to meditate with my guru/therapist and it is the best therapy ever.
I have probably said this before, but for me the art in becoming a happier person was in thinking less and in doing and being more. The less I thought about things actively, the more they sorted themselves with time and meditation.
For example, my brain has been damaged to some level by my Ex and I start to believe it is permanent. My BF does certain things and I automatically use my Ex's name after 15 years and only when he does those things. The way I react to my eldest when she behaves like him. etc etc.
I did the work and I realised that trying to figure it all out intellectually was not serving me and I could let it go and use all that energy to do other stuff -- cause all that thinking took up a lot of my energy. And the things I did figure out, I had known all along.
But to turn a thought into an action also requires feeling, and for me I somehow just learned and then accepted that no matter what thought or feeling came along I could never drink and that habit of "I dont drink" sustains itself.
For me, it really is like hitting my child. I dont do it no matter what. Its harder because as you know I like to hurt myself (like not paying bills on time, quitting great jobs, marrying my Ex), but still I realised that drinking was not only hurting me but also my family and that was enough for me to put on the "stop no matter what" button. Like divorcing my Ex, I did not figure out why I married him or how I could fix him or us, but I did not need to figure that out to leave.
So that is is a long way of saying that for me quieting my mind and finding peace was not by figuring it all out, but rather by letting it all go and realising that I did not need to know what I did not already know.
Very new agey...
I have probably said this before, but for me the art in becoming a happier person was in thinking less and in doing and being more. The less I thought about things actively, the more they sorted themselves with time and meditation.
For example, my brain has been damaged to some level by my Ex and I start to believe it is permanent. My BF does certain things and I automatically use my Ex's name after 15 years and only when he does those things. The way I react to my eldest when she behaves like him. etc etc.
I did the work and I realised that trying to figure it all out intellectually was not serving me and I could let it go and use all that energy to do other stuff -- cause all that thinking took up a lot of my energy. And the things I did figure out, I had known all along.
But to turn a thought into an action also requires feeling, and for me I somehow just learned and then accepted that no matter what thought or feeling came along I could never drink and that habit of "I dont drink" sustains itself.
For me, it really is like hitting my child. I dont do it no matter what. Its harder because as you know I like to hurt myself (like not paying bills on time, quitting great jobs, marrying my Ex), but still I realised that drinking was not only hurting me but also my family and that was enough for me to put on the "stop no matter what" button. Like divorcing my Ex, I did not figure out why I married him or how I could fix him or us, but I did not need to figure that out to leave.
So that is is a long way of saying that for me quieting my mind and finding peace was not by figuring it all out, but rather by letting it all go and realising that I did not need to know what I did not already know.
Very new agey...
Life Goes On
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Hey Derringer, thanks for getting it.
Flipsie, I am thrilled that you are back among us. Very sorry for the troubles that have beset your parents, though. That must be terribly distressing (right word?) for you.
Everybody - I realize this morning we've gone (I've gone) down a twisty-turny path, enticed into discussing overthinking when I don't think I'm doing that. At least for me, the thinking is relatively under control. But hang the shiny token of "overthinking" in front of me and I'll grab right onto it... because it's triggery in an emotional/intellectual way for me. I've spent so much time in my life defending the way I think that it's almost like an automatic reaction for me to try to explain. Which of course makes it appear that I'm overthinking when really what I'm trying to do is invite you into my brain. Annnnnnd there's the vortex. Not sure if that clears up any confusion. lol
Courage, I do have experience with the steps. Made it into 9 and put 10-12 into action some time ago, though I haven't been signed off (as it were) by my sponsor yet. My experience is that they make sense - it's a set of rules that very nicely lays out how to live like a decent human being. My experience is that "the promises" do come true, particularly those that say that fear of people slips away and we'll start knowing intuitively what to do.
This is a 12-step house. We are required to do one meeting/day as a group and on days we don't work to do another individually. All of the meetings are by Zoom now. On Sundays we meet with the owner. Did that the first time last night and she attended via Zoom. I'm not sure if it's normally a 12-step meeting; this time we did a "study" to talk about how the Traditions apply to the new world of Zoom meetings.
In addition to these formal activities, I'm also doing just a bit of writing: In the morning, I write "intentions," a list of things to do as well as some quality I will strive to emulate. In the evening, I write a gratitude list and an inventory.
It's daunting to think of adding 8 hours of work to the mix, but I know it can be done. It's just a matter of focus. And gratitude for having a job that I can do from home. I'll be reporting to Occupational Health for clearance to return today - hopefully that will all go well!
Flipsie, I am thrilled that you are back among us. Very sorry for the troubles that have beset your parents, though. That must be terribly distressing (right word?) for you.
Everybody - I realize this morning we've gone (I've gone) down a twisty-turny path, enticed into discussing overthinking when I don't think I'm doing that. At least for me, the thinking is relatively under control. But hang the shiny token of "overthinking" in front of me and I'll grab right onto it... because it's triggery in an emotional/intellectual way for me. I've spent so much time in my life defending the way I think that it's almost like an automatic reaction for me to try to explain. Which of course makes it appear that I'm overthinking when really what I'm trying to do is invite you into my brain. Annnnnnd there's the vortex. Not sure if that clears up any confusion. lol
Courage, I do have experience with the steps. Made it into 9 and put 10-12 into action some time ago, though I haven't been signed off (as it were) by my sponsor yet. My experience is that they make sense - it's a set of rules that very nicely lays out how to live like a decent human being. My experience is that "the promises" do come true, particularly those that say that fear of people slips away and we'll start knowing intuitively what to do.
This is a 12-step house. We are required to do one meeting/day as a group and on days we don't work to do another individually. All of the meetings are by Zoom now. On Sundays we meet with the owner. Did that the first time last night and she attended via Zoom. I'm not sure if it's normally a 12-step meeting; this time we did a "study" to talk about how the Traditions apply to the new world of Zoom meetings.
In addition to these formal activities, I'm also doing just a bit of writing: In the morning, I write "intentions," a list of things to do as well as some quality I will strive to emulate. In the evening, I write a gratitude list and an inventory.
It's daunting to think of adding 8 hours of work to the mix, but I know it can be done. It's just a matter of focus. And gratitude for having a job that I can do from home. I'll be reporting to Occupational Health for clearance to return today - hopefully that will all go well!
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