O Well?
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
Thanks for checking in Obladi, sounds like you made a good choice to go. I think the family wellness program sounds great too - and i'm happy to hear that you will be able to participate with some of your daughters. Be well and let us know how it goes when you have time
Life Goes On
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Just met with the psychologist. When he asked how I was doing, I said, "Overall, very well. I'm making connections with some people, showing up on time to all of my scheduled activities, and overall just doing The Thing."
But unfortunately, I had a very uncomfortable group session this morning. There's a woman in the group that's about ten years older than I am, and has made herself the respected elder in the community. And that she is. People love her and the little bits of unsolicited advice she doles out. She took me under her proverbial wing when I first got here, and that made me feel good. I felt like since we are approximately the same age, we could become friends. She and I have gone head to head a number of times because we're both pretty strongly opinionated (you think??), but I thought we were getting along like two old cantankerous coots.
Except. She started giving me the cold shoulder a couple of days ago. For what? I dunno. But since she's bit off my head a few times already, I was just staying clear of her and keeping my head shielded. She's in my group and I may have written about her before? Anyhow, the group today was yucking it up about ridiculous drinking escapades, and after about 5 minutes of this, I interjected, "I don't think this is funny." She responded, "Your opinion doesn't matter." I said, "What? Why doesn't my opinion count?" She told me that it was because the opinion of the group counts. I dropped it and dropped out of the conversation as well, thinking about how I was going to rate my stress when it came my turn to check in. Should I say 2 and avoid confrontation or should I be honest and say 7?
I was honest. And when asked why it was so high, said it was 2 before I came in the room, but 7 after this woman said what she did. Said that I've been going through this for a long time, and they have no idea how bad it gets (they don't), and it's just upsetting to me to hear war stories all day and night. The rest of the group tried to save the situation by talking with me about how I felt and that my opinion did indeed count. I said it was ok, I would work it out with this other woman (let's call her Mother Hen) outside of the group. Mother Hen responded, "No, we will not work it out outside of the group. You sit there boo hoo hooing and blah blah blah blah (no idea what the rest of the words were)." Then she turned in her chair to face another patient and said, "She's got an opinion on everything and she..." I told the counselor I would be back in about 10 minutes and left the room.
I spoke with the counselor after and offered to leave the group to join another one because Mother Hen is clearly threatened by me. (At one point, she told me I was out of line this morning because I "took over" this new woman. Took over? I spoke with her for a few minutes and helped her to interpret her schedule!) I have more to say about this, but I'm about to get logged off.
But like I said, overall things are going well. I'm able to help other women with things they are going through, and that's great.
And the staff is being very helpful and understanding. That's great, too.
But unfortunately, I had a very uncomfortable group session this morning. There's a woman in the group that's about ten years older than I am, and has made herself the respected elder in the community. And that she is. People love her and the little bits of unsolicited advice she doles out. She took me under her proverbial wing when I first got here, and that made me feel good. I felt like since we are approximately the same age, we could become friends. She and I have gone head to head a number of times because we're both pretty strongly opinionated (you think??), but I thought we were getting along like two old cantankerous coots.
Except. She started giving me the cold shoulder a couple of days ago. For what? I dunno. But since she's bit off my head a few times already, I was just staying clear of her and keeping my head shielded. She's in my group and I may have written about her before? Anyhow, the group today was yucking it up about ridiculous drinking escapades, and after about 5 minutes of this, I interjected, "I don't think this is funny." She responded, "Your opinion doesn't matter." I said, "What? Why doesn't my opinion count?" She told me that it was because the opinion of the group counts. I dropped it and dropped out of the conversation as well, thinking about how I was going to rate my stress when it came my turn to check in. Should I say 2 and avoid confrontation or should I be honest and say 7?
I was honest. And when asked why it was so high, said it was 2 before I came in the room, but 7 after this woman said what she did. Said that I've been going through this for a long time, and they have no idea how bad it gets (they don't), and it's just upsetting to me to hear war stories all day and night. The rest of the group tried to save the situation by talking with me about how I felt and that my opinion did indeed count. I said it was ok, I would work it out with this other woman (let's call her Mother Hen) outside of the group. Mother Hen responded, "No, we will not work it out outside of the group. You sit there boo hoo hooing and blah blah blah blah (no idea what the rest of the words were)." Then she turned in her chair to face another patient and said, "She's got an opinion on everything and she..." I told the counselor I would be back in about 10 minutes and left the room.
I spoke with the counselor after and offered to leave the group to join another one because Mother Hen is clearly threatened by me. (At one point, she told me I was out of line this morning because I "took over" this new woman. Took over? I spoke with her for a few minutes and helped her to interpret her schedule!) I have more to say about this, but I'm about to get logged off.
But like I said, overall things are going well. I'm able to help other women with things they are going through, and that's great.
And the staff is being very helpful and understanding. That's great, too.
All is Change
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
It's a long process of relaxing and letting go. It's difficult to let go of ego. At the centre of (a lot of, perhaps all) conflict is clinging to 'my ideas', 'my views'.
There is a constructed self that is projected into the world for others to interact with. When this self is percieved to be flawed, there is a habitual tendency to defend it. It is this habit that is in the way of progress.
The way to deconstruct this habitual acting is to adhere to positive behavioural guidelines. Simple ones such as are least likely to lead to self harm. : Be kind. Relax and let go by making the other person (in the present moment, self or other) the very most important person in the world.
There is a constructed self that is projected into the world for others to interact with. When this self is percieved to be flawed, there is a habitual tendency to defend it. It is this habit that is in the way of progress.
The way to deconstruct this habitual acting is to adhere to positive behavioural guidelines. Simple ones such as are least likely to lead to self harm. : Be kind. Relax and let go by making the other person (in the present moment, self or other) the very most important person in the world.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 1,132
Originally Posted by Grymt 
It's a long process of relaxing and letting go. It's difficult to let go of ego. At the centre of (a lot of, perhaps all) conflict is clinging to 'my ideas', 'my views'.
There is a constructed self that is projected into the world for others to interact with. When this self is percieved to be flawed, there is a habitual tendency to defend it. It is this habit that is in the way of progress.
The way to deconstruct this habitual acting is to adhere to positive behavioural guidelines. Simple ones such as are least likely to lead to self harm. : Be kind. Relax and let go by making the other person (in the present moment, self or other) the very most important person in the world.
There is a constructed self that is projected into the world for others to interact with. When this self is percieved to be flawed, there is a habitual tendency to defend it. It is this habit that is in the way of progress.
The way to deconstruct this habitual acting is to adhere to positive behavioural guidelines. Simple ones such as are least likely to lead to self harm. : Be kind. Relax and let go by making the other person (in the present moment, self or other) the very most important person in the world.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Hmm....sounds like a bunch of irritable alcoholics in recovery. Sorry, but darned if it doesn’t happen here on SR too 
Seems to me the point of a group is NOT to attempt to exclude folks from feeling included simply for having an opinion, I don’t think that’s fair to you, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with boo hooing, or saying you don’t appreciate war stories, or honestly saying anything at all as long as you’re not being unkind or disrespectful, it’s group, it’s for sharing.
That’s my I’ve worked 9 stressful hours of work so I can’t be bothered to have proper grammar, run on sentence. Thank goodness I’m not a teacher.
Seems to me the point of a group is NOT to attempt to exclude folks from feeling included simply for having an opinion, I don’t think that’s fair to you, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with boo hooing, or saying you don’t appreciate war stories, or honestly saying anything at all as long as you’re not being unkind or disrespectful, it’s group, it’s for sharing.
That’s my I’ve worked 9 stressful hours of work so I can’t be bothered to have proper grammar, run on sentence. Thank goodness I’m not a teacher.
Life Goes On
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Originally Posted by Grymt
It's a long process of relaxing and letting go. It's difficult to let go of ego. At the centre of (a lot of, perhaps all) conflict is clinging to 'my ideas', 'my views'.
There is a constructed self that is projected into the world for others to interact with. When this self is percieved to be flawed, there is a habitual tendency to defend it. It is this habit that is in the way of progress.
The way to deconstruct this habitual acting is to adhere to positive behavioural guidelines. Simple ones such as are least likely to lead to self harm. : Be kind. Relax and let go by making the other person (in the present moment, self or other) the very most important person in the world.
There is a constructed self that is projected into the world for others to interact with. When this self is percieved to be flawed, there is a habitual tendency to defend it. It is this habit that is in the way of progress.
The way to deconstruct this habitual acting is to adhere to positive behavioural guidelines. Simple ones such as are least likely to lead to self harm. : Be kind. Relax and let go by making the other person (in the present moment, self or other) the very most important person in the world.
But in this situation, I said quite simply what I said and the response was full of animosity. I did not defend myself aside from the question, "Why?" I said we'd work it out and she indicated we would not. Seems pretty clear to me whose ego was involved with this one.
When I spoke with the counselor after that group, I asked him why he hadn't jumped in when she told me I couldn't have an opinion. He said he was so taken aback he didn't know what to say. Fair enough.
I went out to smoke after that, and Mother Hen sort of hung back after the other women left. She said, "Are we ok?" (wtf??? How could we be ok after that?) Uh, no. "Oh, really? Do you want to talk about it?" Not at this time - maybe later.
We were summoned back to the counselor's office later in the day. First, eldest would like to visit on Sunday, was I ok with that?
Uh.... um, ok. The director was in the room, and she said, "How can we support you with that?" I said thanks very much and I thought I'd be ok because I will be prepared for anything this time. Counselor told me he had spoken with Mother Hen and she had been "receptive," so he wanted to know if I'd be open to a conversation. Of course.
So we sat down, me and Mother Hen and the counselor and the director, and the director invited us to speak to each other. Mother Hen told me I was bossy, I always take charge of situations, that her roommate was confused about why I'd helped her with the schedule this morning, that I'm full of self-pity and that I have an opinion on everything and people don't like that.
Hold up.
- People don't like it? What people?
- Can you give me a specific example from this week when I was taking charge inappropriately?
- Who am I bossing around?
- Sure, I have opinions. So do you. I thought we were going to be two crones in a pod. I've got no problem with our opinions not matching up.
- What do you mean your roommate was confused? I asked her if she'd like help and she said she would. What???
She did admit to having an agenda when she came in the room. She saw that I had sat in "Colby's chair" (this guy was part of her original crew and left earlier in the week) and she thought she was going to have to "protect" out (fill-in) counselor because I was going to try to "take over." Again, wtf
More conversation ensued. Nothing was resolved. I did not call out her defects or characterize her in any sort of way that was not complimentary. I kept the upper hand. And left confused and crying after the director dismissed us with advice that we "let this marinate" and journal about it over the weekend. Sure, fine.
I happened to run into the roommate as I walked outside and pulled her over. "I understand you were confused about why I was helping with your schedule this morning?" She said, "What are you talking about? ? You were so helpful and kind to me, and I've been mentioning you - not by name but I meant you - all day when we've been talking about gratitude." Well. Then the tears let loose for real. She wanted to go speak with Mother Hen to straighten this all out and I asked her to please not do that.
Can you believe it? I've been love bombed, then frozen out and then gaslighted by a sweet saintly 67 year old lady that everyone loves. Wow.
The lesson is, O: Watch out for your attraction to charismatic people. Don't you know by now it kills you every time? Nope. Didn't know a woman in a non-romantic relationship would do this.
Doh
Everything is ok today.
I'm just keeping a wide berth.
She was snarky in our small group exercise, but we only needed to be in the same space for 45 minutes and I just disregarded.
Keep your fingers crossed that eldest's visit tomorrow is a good one, please.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posts: 517
Its just someone who has seen a better solution than telling war stories (12 steps etc) vs someone who thinks war stories are actually going to help.
Let them wallow in it, giving your opinion won't change them.
You understand the serenity prayer right ?
You seem to keep getting involved willingly in these attempts to drag you down to their level.
Don't fall for it
Let them wallow in it, giving your opinion won't change them.
You understand the serenity prayer right ?
You seem to keep getting involved willingly in these attempts to drag you down to their level.
Don't fall for it
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 255
Hey O - I don't post much but have read your threads
Your last post is drama, drama, drama. What do you want to get out of there? You want to get sober but you seem to be fighting with people.
I mean, you devoted an entire paragraph about sitting in someone's chair.
I absolutely believe you want to get sober, and you seem to be angry at everybody at the rehab.
Take a deep breath. Maybe it's not the right rehab for you, maybe you are being unreasonable.
I'll go back into my corner.
Your last post is drama, drama, drama. What do you want to get out of there? You want to get sober but you seem to be fighting with people.
I mean, you devoted an entire paragraph about sitting in someone's chair.
I absolutely believe you want to get sober, and you seem to be angry at everybody at the rehab.
Take a deep breath. Maybe it's not the right rehab for you, maybe you are being unreasonable.
I'll go back into my corner.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,283
My advice is none of it matters. It’s all just talk with strangers. All that matters to get better is education about addiction (although I’d bet you know everything about it by now, like me, after fighting this so long) and time. So, since you’re likely already educated on the problem, now give yourself time to heal. Meditate in there, read, home facials, exercise, self care, etc. I wish I could pull you out of there and lock you in a fancy spa. Mother Hen holds no value to you. Focus everything on valuing yourself. Forget the gaslighting lady. She seems like she might feel threatened by you - another strong woman. Keep checking off days until it becomes easy, which it will. 💛
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,424
Originally Posted by Sohard
My advice is none of it matters. It’s all just talk with strangers. All that matters to get better is education about addiction (although I’d bet you know everything about it by now, like me, after fighting this so long) and time. So, since you’re likely already educated on the problem, now give yourself time to heal. Meditate in there, read, home facials, exercise, self care, etc. I wish I could pull you out of there and lock you in a fancy spa. Mother Hen holds no value to you. Focus everything on valuing yourself. Forget the gaslighting lady. She seems like she might feel threatened by you - another strong woman. Keep checking off days until it becomes easy, which it will. 💛
This woman has her own issues so drop her off your radar.
Most important thing coming up is eldest’s visit.
Sending you strength and good wishes O.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
yes, clearly this woman has issues.
and i do think it is extremely valuable to learn how to just let her have them without getting sucked into them when she tries to snag you into them. so yeah, i see this woman as having lots of value to you.
so you can use that opportunity of a more-or-less safe environment to practice, no?
and you may well be bossy and want to take charge...i wouldn’t know. i know you have a strong voice, and that is often perceived as bossiness.
ask me how i know
wishing you well for visit with eldest.
and i do think it is extremely valuable to learn how to just let her have them without getting sucked into them when she tries to snag you into them. so yeah, i see this woman as having lots of value to you.
so you can use that opportunity of a more-or-less safe environment to practice, no?
and you may well be bossy and want to take charge...i wouldn’t know. i know you have a strong voice, and that is often perceived as bossiness.
ask me how i know
wishing you well for visit with eldest.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Just get sober. You’re in a controlled environment to avoid buying and consuming alcohol, and that part is working. That’s the part that matters.
You’re in there with a bunch of people you aren’t necessarily going to like to be liked by, like we often are in school or work or other situations we have to be in, but don’t necessarily enjoy. If we’re lucky we meet one or two we connect with but not always.
All of you are in early recovery from substance abuse which makes anyone unstable, it’s a difficult time whether you are in rehab or at home so people’s emotions and stressors are high.
I hope you can find some gems in there, or some tools to help you get sober, but the real thing that helps people stay sober is sobriety, and rehab is accomplishing that. For at least a while.
I hope you get enough time away from the alcohol to gain the perspective sobriety brings, all the rest of it is just details.
It took courage to go there, and staying there isn’t easy, but you’re doing it.
You’re in there with a bunch of people you aren’t necessarily going to like to be liked by, like we often are in school or work or other situations we have to be in, but don’t necessarily enjoy. If we’re lucky we meet one or two we connect with but not always.
All of you are in early recovery from substance abuse which makes anyone unstable, it’s a difficult time whether you are in rehab or at home so people’s emotions and stressors are high.
I hope you can find some gems in there, or some tools to help you get sober, but the real thing that helps people stay sober is sobriety, and rehab is accomplishing that. For at least a while.
I hope you get enough time away from the alcohol to gain the perspective sobriety brings, all the rest of it is just details.
It took courage to go there, and staying there isn’t easy, but you’re doing it.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
The one phrase I remember liking and using A LOT in early sobriety was "what other people think of me is none of my business". Often it took all of my attention, focus, and energy just to make it through the day or week without drinking. So when I had to deal with rude people who thought they could get certain reactions out of me.. the joke was on them because I couldn't afford to get sidetracked.
But also, at least you're allowing yourself to feel the emotions of hurt, frustration, etc. rather than just stuffing them, letting them turn into resentments, and then "drinking at them" later.
Hope your visit with eldest goes well today..
But also, at least you're allowing yourself to feel the emotions of hurt, frustration, etc. rather than just stuffing them, letting them turn into resentments, and then "drinking at them" later.
Hope your visit with eldest goes well today..
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
Posts: 5,095
Hey O
Grrrrrr. People.
So I don't know Mother Hen from Adam. I can only talk of my own experience.
Rehab. No better place to become my angry, neglected, abused, vulnerable 8 year old then Rehab. I mean, what could possibly go wrong? Stuck in a building with a bunch of people as sick, or sicker, than I. All feeling like crap, both physically and emotionally. Maybe not sleeping. Food probably sucks. Beds probably uncomfortable. Hell, can't have a moment alone unless I'm showering or going to the bathroom and even then I don't really feel alone. Being monitored 24/7. And hey, people in rehab aren't usually very healthy. Ha! Including me. So that angry little 8 year old drives the bus at times.....
But then there's the contentment part. The acceptance part that I'm right where I'm supposed to be. Both physically and mentally. The part that says, you do you, and I'll do me. The part that learns to be a bit non stick.
Honestly, **** mother hen. Can't figure her out, why try? The important bit is why it's getting to you so much? I mean, I get it. Its rehab. Talk about emotionally raw and vulnerable. But in that vulnerability there may be some answers. At least for me there are. What if you were to just absolutely let her comments, body language, gestures etc go? What would happen? Who gives a rats azz what anyone thinks?
Counselors in rehab. Well, they suck. So there's that. I mean, big generalization there. But my experience has been that good counselors (and they are few) don't work in rehabs. They are there to keep the kids in line, make rehab more than just a place to detox and be safe from oneself, probably walk you through some binder that has you do some surface level recovery BS based on the 12 steps, check the box, have you work on a discharge plan, check the box, move ya out, bring in the next. Ok that all sounds negative. Its not. But rehab is just 28 days or so. Its the very tip of the iceberg. And an actual discharge plan that is truly workable is probably THE most important thing you will do there. Do it for you, not anyone else.
Ok obviously I have some strong opinions here. Take them at face value. War stories? **** em. I hate them. Here, in rehab, in AA. They serve no purpose. So ya tune em out. War story tellers are probably not on the same wave length you are.
So hang in there. Dig into that soft gooey center a bit. Or don't. But Mother Hen? So not worth it. I like to remind myself that each day I only have a finite amount of energy. I decide where I place that energy. Yeah, I don't always succeed. But I try to remember that.
Hang in there you strong, intelligent, amazing woman!!
Grrrrrr. People.
So I don't know Mother Hen from Adam. I can only talk of my own experience.
Rehab. No better place to become my angry, neglected, abused, vulnerable 8 year old then Rehab. I mean, what could possibly go wrong? Stuck in a building with a bunch of people as sick, or sicker, than I. All feeling like crap, both physically and emotionally. Maybe not sleeping. Food probably sucks. Beds probably uncomfortable. Hell, can't have a moment alone unless I'm showering or going to the bathroom and even then I don't really feel alone. Being monitored 24/7. And hey, people in rehab aren't usually very healthy. Ha! Including me. So that angry little 8 year old drives the bus at times.....
But then there's the contentment part. The acceptance part that I'm right where I'm supposed to be. Both physically and mentally. The part that says, you do you, and I'll do me. The part that learns to be a bit non stick.
Honestly, **** mother hen. Can't figure her out, why try? The important bit is why it's getting to you so much? I mean, I get it. Its rehab. Talk about emotionally raw and vulnerable. But in that vulnerability there may be some answers. At least for me there are. What if you were to just absolutely let her comments, body language, gestures etc go? What would happen? Who gives a rats azz what anyone thinks?
Counselors in rehab. Well, they suck. So there's that. I mean, big generalization there. But my experience has been that good counselors (and they are few) don't work in rehabs. They are there to keep the kids in line, make rehab more than just a place to detox and be safe from oneself, probably walk you through some binder that has you do some surface level recovery BS based on the 12 steps, check the box, have you work on a discharge plan, check the box, move ya out, bring in the next. Ok that all sounds negative. Its not. But rehab is just 28 days or so. Its the very tip of the iceberg. And an actual discharge plan that is truly workable is probably THE most important thing you will do there. Do it for you, not anyone else.
Ok obviously I have some strong opinions here. Take them at face value. War stories? **** em. I hate them. Here, in rehab, in AA. They serve no purpose. So ya tune em out. War story tellers are probably not on the same wave length you are.
So hang in there. Dig into that soft gooey center a bit. Or don't. But Mother Hen? So not worth it. I like to remind myself that each day I only have a finite amount of energy. I decide where I place that energy. Yeah, I don't always succeed. But I try to remember that.
Hang in there you strong, intelligent, amazing woman!!
Woe is Moo.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
Hello O! 
Here's my two cents: Is it possible in 6 month's time you will look upon the Mother Hen Kerfluffle and laugh? I kind of think you might. You may even look back and realize you were a tiny bit extra at the time. That would be totally understandable. I'm sure she is, too. I mean, you are both in rehab with lots of intense shht going on!
Since you are unlikely to ever see her again after rehab, the kerfluffle is not a great place for your energy or focus to be. Perhaps you can seek to learn more about yourself by shifting from "who is right" rumination to just observing and contemplating your own reactions. ...Or, you can start carving a shiv out of soap.
Here's my two cents: Is it possible in 6 month's time you will look upon the Mother Hen Kerfluffle and laugh? I kind of think you might. You may even look back and realize you were a tiny bit extra at the time. That would be totally understandable. I'm sure she is, too. I mean, you are both in rehab with lots of intense shht going on!
Since you are unlikely to ever see her again after rehab, the kerfluffle is not a great place for your energy or focus to be. Perhaps you can seek to learn more about yourself by shifting from "who is right" rumination to just observing and contemplating your own reactions. ...Or, you can start carving a shiv out of soap.
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,039
Mother Hen sounds like a real rich piece of b!+ch. It would make me very uncomfortable to be in group situations with her, if I was expected to talk about personally meaningful perceptions. I don't honestly know what I'd do. Now that I'm sober, I'd confront her on it right then and there, but I sure couldn't have done that fresh-n-clean, nor would I recommend it.
In the rooms, I practiced visualizing when interactions made me tense. I'd concentrate on the words coming out of mouths, and not on the people saying them. Like roll them around in my brain, like marbles.
I don't know if you're allowed to stay silent. No one can stop you if you utter only pablum, and keep your own counsel, can they?
PS when I came out of longterm drunkenness and depression, my dominant emotion was anger. It's ok Better than the other thing
I hope the visit went well.
In the rooms, I practiced visualizing when interactions made me tense. I'd concentrate on the words coming out of mouths, and not on the people saying them. Like roll them around in my brain, like marbles.
I don't know if you're allowed to stay silent. No one can stop you if you utter only pablum, and keep your own counsel, can they?
PS when I came out of longterm drunkenness and depression, my dominant emotion was anger. It's ok
Better than the other thing I hope the visit went well.
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