AA - Battle of the Old Timers - Part II
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 1,068
AA - Battle of the Old Timers - Part II
Original Thread For Reference:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ld-timers.html (AA Meeting - Battle of the Old Timers)
It's been over five years since I wrote the original thread. I had forgotten how new I was in the AA program. I did not even have a sponsor when I wrote it. So why am I dredging up this thread now? Because I saw the two of them again - sitting in front of the same Saturday night AA meeting at the same church. Over five years later.
Last Saturday "Mr. Program" celebrated 39 years of sobriety. He shared and as part of his share he did say (as he did five years ago) that "meeting makers make it" was BS. He also said that the steps were the key to everything and if it's not in the Big Book it's not AA. etc. etc. He is still Mr. Program. But over the last five years I have gotten to know him and while I still think he's a bit on the extreme side in his interpretation of the AA program he's a good guy. It's his program not mine.
On the other hand I have also heard the older woman share over the years and my impression of her has changed too. What I have observed with her is that she often makes a point of sharing that she did not do the steps to get sober. While I realize that not everyone does the steps I think the way she constantly dismisses the steps in her shares is a bit rude frankly.
Thus, time and more opportunities to observe both of them has changed my views. While neither of them practice the program the way I do (which of course is the right way
) I have found myself appreciating Mr. Program more and the older woman less.
But the amazing thing to me is that while they do not particularly like each other they are still attending the same AA meeting sitting next to each other over five years later.
For me personally the best thing I got out of the original thread was the reference to Br. Bob on tolerance. It really resonated with me and I still mention it sometimes when I share.
Have a great day everyone.
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ld-timers.html (AA Meeting - Battle of the Old Timers)
It's been over five years since I wrote the original thread. I had forgotten how new I was in the AA program. I did not even have a sponsor when I wrote it. So why am I dredging up this thread now? Because I saw the two of them again - sitting in front of the same Saturday night AA meeting at the same church. Over five years later.
Last Saturday "Mr. Program" celebrated 39 years of sobriety. He shared and as part of his share he did say (as he did five years ago) that "meeting makers make it" was BS. He also said that the steps were the key to everything and if it's not in the Big Book it's not AA. etc. etc. He is still Mr. Program. But over the last five years I have gotten to know him and while I still think he's a bit on the extreme side in his interpretation of the AA program he's a good guy. It's his program not mine.
On the other hand I have also heard the older woman share over the years and my impression of her has changed too. What I have observed with her is that she often makes a point of sharing that she did not do the steps to get sober. While I realize that not everyone does the steps I think the way she constantly dismisses the steps in her shares is a bit rude frankly.
Thus, time and more opportunities to observe both of them has changed my views. While neither of them practice the program the way I do (which of course is the right way
) I have found myself appreciating Mr. Program more and the older woman less.But the amazing thing to me is that while they do not particularly like each other they are still attending the same AA meeting sitting next to each other over five years later.
For me personally the best thing I got out of the original thread was the reference to Br. Bob on tolerance. It really resonated with me and I still mention it sometimes when I share.
Have a great day everyone.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posts: 517
I got lead down the wrong path by those non program old timers.
The prospect of no fearless moral inventory, no God stuff .... Hey ... Give me an easy option, I'll take it 😂
2 years of 5-6 meetings a week, dry as a barrel of gunpowder, closer to suicide than I'd ever been, marriage in tatters cause I'm never there.
I go to one of the old timers, tell him I'm coming apart at the seams, he's got nothing except "maybe you need to get to a few more meetings"
I drank to stave off the suicide.
The prospect of no fearless moral inventory, no God stuff .... Hey ... Give me an easy option, I'll take it 😂
2 years of 5-6 meetings a week, dry as a barrel of gunpowder, closer to suicide than I'd ever been, marriage in tatters cause I'm never there.
I go to one of the old timers, tell him I'm coming apart at the seams, he's got nothing except "maybe you need to get to a few more meetings"
I drank to stave off the suicide.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
Another bit of wisdom from early AA history that seems appropriate to this topic is what Dr Carl Jung (mentioned in the big book) had to say about the three ways in which he saw alcoholics recover, that is, three different types of spiritual experience. All three involve walking on a path that leads to a higher understanding.
The first is an "act of grace" which I interpret to mean a sudden and profound spiritual experience 'given' to an individual. The second is a "personal and honest contact with friends", which would seem to be what "the older woman" refers to. Meetings, or in other words, the relationships between people being the central component to walking that path. The third path to a higher understanding which is central to sobriety is what Jung refers to as "a higher education of the mind beyond the confines of mere rationalism". This seems to refer to a spiritual awakening which includes a spiritual awakening of an educational variety.
Mr program would seem to value numbers 1 and 3 while the older woman would seem to see number 2 as most important.
Personally I see all three as equally valid. They each lead to the goal of a higher understanding, albeit a somewhat different understanding.
The first is an "act of grace" which I interpret to mean a sudden and profound spiritual experience 'given' to an individual. The second is a "personal and honest contact with friends", which would seem to be what "the older woman" refers to. Meetings, or in other words, the relationships between people being the central component to walking that path. The third path to a higher understanding which is central to sobriety is what Jung refers to as "a higher education of the mind beyond the confines of mere rationalism". This seems to refer to a spiritual awakening which includes a spiritual awakening of an educational variety.
Mr program would seem to value numbers 1 and 3 while the older woman would seem to see number 2 as most important.
Personally I see all three as equally valid. They each lead to the goal of a higher understanding, albeit a somewhat different understanding.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 68
From reading this thread, I never realised how in depth AA meetings can get. Whilst I like a good thought provoking discussion, when it comes to my recovery I find the simpler the better. I am actually a spiritual person, but to share my spirituality to a group of people in a therapy setting just never sat right with me. I did try a AA meeting and I just didn't get it, that is no fault of AA as I hear more people swear by it than not.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Thanks for your post. I'm what's called an "old timer" who is also an agnostic (God = group of drunks) and don't think there's one narrow path that works for everyone. It's typical that our beliefs and attitudes change over time and I applaud your efforts to look back. I keep going to meetings because I know I can drink again, even after 28 years. But also to give back and help others new to recovery. I'm still amazed that a drunk in Ohio wrote a book in the mid 30's that describes me perfectly!
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