Redmayne

If, as is correctly stated, human nature abhors a vacuum, particularly one created when alcohol abuse and dependency, is removed y stopping drinking. To the point of complete abstinence leading to prolonged and permanent sobriety..

It seems whatever path you choose to take you to that point has some measure of credibility and success, perhaps best displayed in others who have tried it, judged on their own experience and success.

Which suggests the Dalai Lama got it right, albeit he wasn't probably at the time he made it addressing the subject of alcoholism, even less recovery,he said,

'Anything that contradicts logic and experience should be abandoned.'

fini

that statement actually refers to "nature", and not "human nature". it relates mostly to physics, but of course can be adapted as handy metaphor.

Redmayne

Other than it being used as a handy metaphor as opposed to being used in general terms i.e. 'nature abhors a vacuum'. In constructive terms relative to the subject of this forum, alcoholism, and not my use of it, your point being?

Grymt

I think it's a paraphrase of a stanza in Buddhas discourse to the Kalamas:

'... Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.'

When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering' — then you should abandon them.'

and as such refers to human nature, but being buddha it encompasses all natures which includes physics.

Zevin

What Grymt said.

fini

my point being that the original is not speaking about human nature.
so , in your version, it has already been adapted to say something else.
so i’m thinking about what “human nature” is, and if it might abhor a vacuum.

Sohard

Sohard

Redmayne

When I originally posted this thread I used the aphorism,'Human nature abhors a vacuum,' to indicate the psychological approach to alcoholism, given that 'the main problem for alcoholics centres in the mind' . See the book,'Alcoholics Anonymous'.

Indicating that given alcoholism is a two fold disease/illness comprising of a physical allergy and a mental obsession. Once the physical allergy is removed by complete abstinence, the mental obsession remains in a vacuum, which has to be filled by whatever method those suffering from it choose. Say for instance AA's 12 Step program or whatever, provided it works by providing the sufferer prolonged and lasting recovery and sobriety..

For myself I'm used the 'Big Book' to be read whilst at the same time, to allows me to make notes. Listening to one of ,'Joe & Charlie's Big Book Study Meetings' which I still, when I feel it's necessary use to this day, regarding both the late Joe McQuany and Charlie Parmley as my sponsors, that was well over eleven years ago now... which makes me suspect both they and I must be doing something right.

NYCDoglvr

I substituted drinking with AA, which worked for me. I couldn't have just replaced drinking with nothing.