living life on life's terms sometimes SUCKS
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Originally Posted by FindingMyNext 
School principal here, asking you to think about a couple things:
Don't go in there and rage at the counselor or principal: It's not their fault, and they want her to be okay as badly as you do.
Don't withdraw her from school: The unintended, hidden message you'd be sending to her is you don't think she can handle hurtful people, and you feel you need to take hard things away from her. She needs to know you believe in her, and that you're certain she can handle these jerks.
Teach her to handle a-holes. Throw her shoulders back and stick up for herself. Tell her to say, "Stop it," or "Shut up" or "You are a small person" or the eye-roll classic, "Whateeeever." Tell her to walk away and find the high road. She'll need these strategies when she gets older, because there are awful people all over the place, and the WORST things we can do to our kids is take barriers away. Transfer your rage to making her stronger and confident.
The other consideration: If word gets out that you intervened, or, worse, the boys get in some sort of "trouble," they won't stop bullying. They'll just get more covert and sneaky about it. And meaner. Bullies only thrive if they have someone to bully, so if your daughter can learn how to handle them, she'll never be a victim again.
Just my two cents, from someone who gets it (my kids are sometimes bullied because their Mom is the principal), and from someone who's often been on the wrong end of furious, rain parents who want me to remove bullies from the face of the earth. (Why I used to drink copious amounts of vodka after work, by the way).
But eradicating bullies is not possible. Better to work with counselors/administration to empower your daughter. She'll be a stronger adult... which is what you want.
Again, just my two cents.
Don't go in there and rage at the counselor or principal: It's not their fault, and they want her to be okay as badly as you do.
Don't withdraw her from school: The unintended, hidden message you'd be sending to her is you don't think she can handle hurtful people, and you feel you need to take hard things away from her. She needs to know you believe in her, and that you're certain she can handle these jerks.
Teach her to handle a-holes. Throw her shoulders back and stick up for herself. Tell her to say, "Stop it," or "Shut up" or "You are a small person" or the eye-roll classic, "Whateeeever." Tell her to walk away and find the high road. She'll need these strategies when she gets older, because there are awful people all over the place, and the WORST things we can do to our kids is take barriers away. Transfer your rage to making her stronger and confident.
The other consideration: If word gets out that you intervened, or, worse, the boys get in some sort of "trouble," they won't stop bullying. They'll just get more covert and sneaky about it. And meaner. Bullies only thrive if they have someone to bully, so if your daughter can learn how to handle them, she'll never be a victim again.
Just my two cents, from someone who gets it (my kids are sometimes bullied because their Mom is the principal), and from someone who's often been on the wrong end of furious, rain parents who want me to remove bullies from the face of the earth. (Why I used to drink copious amounts of vodka after work, by the way).
But eradicating bullies is not possible. Better to work with counselors/administration to empower your daughter. She'll be a stronger adult... which is what you want.
Again, just my two cents.
Circling this to sobriety specifically - learning how to handle the immediate reaction stuff when it comes to kids is an intense thing, as I have observed with my husband and second-hand as the step-parent. So even as a sober leader of a public school system, he has to practice the pause so many times! Like we all do.
I really, really appreciate this perspective share, Finding My Next.
Take care BD.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
I don't blame you for being offended at that last line.
I have to say that your post is, unusual, to me. In your entire approach there is no mention of how the bullies will be addressed except to say that confronting them won't stop them.
Well you know, it will in many cases. This has been proven over and over and over again. Bullies (especially children) are just full of hot air and generally when confronted they deflate quite quickly and the bravado is quickly diminished.
In your post you put all the onus on the victim to stand up to them and none of the onus on the school to correct the bullies. Do I agree she needs to be empowered with support from her Dad and the school? Absolutely. Does the school need to stand up for her? Absolutely! It's not ok, leaving them "be" with a "whatever" is NOT ok.
There must be punishment for this behaviour, you are not giving up on her (good) but you do sound to be giving up on them.
Just my opinion.
I have to say that your post is, unusual, to me. In your entire approach there is no mention of how the bullies will be addressed except to say that confronting them won't stop them.
Well you know, it will in many cases. This has been proven over and over and over again. Bullies (especially children) are just full of hot air and generally when confronted they deflate quite quickly and the bravado is quickly diminished.
In your post you put all the onus on the victim to stand up to them and none of the onus on the school to correct the bullies. Do I agree she needs to be empowered with support from her Dad and the school? Absolutely. Does the school need to stand up for her? Absolutely! It's not ok, leaving them "be" with a "whatever" is NOT ok.
There must be punishment for this behaviour, you are not giving up on her (good) but you do sound to be giving up on them.
Just my opinion.
Not just for bulldogs daughter: but for the boys themselves.
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Interesting bc I did not get that from what was written at all, trailmix. I don't see "sides" being picked etc. I also took note of the wording and verbal suggestions FMN made and tried to translate them into "kid/tween" - as in, how do you help a (girl or boy) student use effective words for different situations? Which I guess circles me back to the fact that it is so hard to parent and to lead schools!
And I guess my last thought is that again looking at sobriety and at a life scenario - what is the outcome we want? Here, I'd say of course it's a safe, productive, positive etc place for your daughter to grow and learn and so on. So how is that best achieved? There's not one answer to my question, rather a "longer view" maybe than I tend to have that my husband helps me see in stuff like this. I'm better at the emotional and messed up yet wonderful family life long view
Being reactionary has never gotten my very far which is a painful lesson it took me a long time to truly "get." Somehow the word "acceptance" pops to mind again
And I guess my last thought is that again looking at sobriety and at a life scenario - what is the outcome we want? Here, I'd say of course it's a safe, productive, positive etc place for your daughter to grow and learn and so on. So how is that best achieved? There's not one answer to my question, rather a "longer view" maybe than I tend to have that my husband helps me see in stuff like this. I'm better at the emotional and messed up yet wonderful family life long view
Being reactionary has never gotten my very far which is a painful lesson it took me a long time to truly "get." Somehow the word "acceptance" pops to mind again
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Originally Posted by FindingMyNext
Replies like this are exactly why I don't post here much. That last line... wow.
I have had horrible, hateful, unfair, accusatory things said to me from parents, many of whom judge me (and other parents) for our approach and "attitude." It would be easy to say my drinking was an attempt to silence all of that awful input, but like all alcoholics, it was bigger than that. I don't believe I am in the wrong job; I am excellent at what I do, I believe in what I do, and my drinking wasn't a cause or effect of my work.
I am truly happy your children turned out so well, but I truly hope you don't pass judgment like this, openly or implicitly, to your brother. Every parent is doing their best. Me included.
I have had horrible, hateful, unfair, accusatory things said to me from parents, many of whom judge me (and other parents) for our approach and "attitude." It would be easy to say my drinking was an attempt to silence all of that awful input, but like all alcoholics, it was bigger than that. I don't believe I am in the wrong job; I am excellent at what I do, I believe in what I do, and my drinking wasn't a cause or effect of my work.
I am truly happy your children turned out so well, but I truly hope you don't pass judgment like this, openly or implicitly, to your brother. Every parent is doing their best. Me included.
I apologize for that last line, I have some bad memories of teachers totally ignoring me and my kids as I was a single parent, compared to doctors kids
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Originally Posted by harriet11
Of course I've never judged my brother it was always quite a he opposite I can assure you, we didn't know how it was going to turn out and he always said how successful his kids would be as they were middle class.
I apologize for that last line, I have some bad memories of teachers totally ignoring me and my kids as I was a single parent, compared to doctors kids
I apologize for that last line, I have some bad memories of teachers totally ignoring me and my kids as I was a single parent, compared to doctors kids
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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Originally Posted by August252015
Interesting bc I did not get that from what was written at all, trailmix. I don't see "sides" being picked etc. I also took note of the wording and verbal suggestions FMN made and tried to translate them into "kid/tween" - as in, how do you help a (girl or boy) student use effective words for different situations? Which I guess circles me back to the fact that it is so hard to parent and to lead schools!
I get having her stand up for herself and I don't dismiss that, however we are not talking about adults here, we are talking about a 13 year old and I think, at that age, a child can still expect protection from adults.
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I’m sorry to hear of what your daughter (and hence you) are suffering, BullDog. I too am fortunate to live in a part of the world where my children experienced zero tolerance for bullying. I’m appalled by what someone wrote here in response to you. In my opinion, it’s tne bullies that need to learn a lesson, not the bullied child. and yes, you approaching the school and requesting that they deal with the bullies, appropriately, is essential.
My son suffered bullying at about your daughters age. The School Head/Principle and Deputy were amazing. Ultimately the bullies were expelled and sent to a special school where their anti-social actions could be worked on, for their benefit, as well as society at large. I live in the U.K., thankfully.
My son suffered bullying at about your daughters age. The School Head/Principle and Deputy were amazing. Ultimately the bullies were expelled and sent to a special school where their anti-social actions could be worked on, for their benefit, as well as society at large. I live in the U.K., thankfully.
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Originally Posted by FindingMyNext
Replies like this are exactly why I don't post here much. That last line... wow.
I have had horrible, hateful, unfair, accusatory things said to me from parents, many of whom judge me (and other parents) for our approach and "attitude." It would be easy to say my drinking was an attempt to silence all of that awful input, but like all alcoholics, it was bigger than that. I don't believe I am in the wrong job; I am excellent at what I do, I believe in what I do, and my drinking wasn't a cause or effect of my work.
I am truly happy your children turned out so well, but I truly hope you don't pass judgment like this, openly or implicitly, to your brother. Every parent is doing their best. Me included.
I have had horrible, hateful, unfair, accusatory things said to me from parents, many of whom judge me (and other parents) for our approach and "attitude." It would be easy to say my drinking was an attempt to silence all of that awful input, but like all alcoholics, it was bigger than that. I don't believe I am in the wrong job; I am excellent at what I do, I believe in what I do, and my drinking wasn't a cause or effect of my work.
I am truly happy your children turned out so well, but I truly hope you don't pass judgment like this, openly or implicitly, to your brother. Every parent is doing their best. Me included.
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OK, I really have to chime in here.
My parents and my husband's parents raised us VERY differently. On paper, I'm smarter, he has more degrees, I had a high flying early career and made a lot of money out of the gate from college, he steadily rose thru the educational system and continues to aspire to superintendency then [ ] - my parents spent more money on me and were also very connected in terms of hugs and verbal expression - his parents were compartmentalized and very topic-based and results oriented without emotion.
I could go on.
My point, though, is this: we are both strong, successful, sober PEOPLE. My life is absolutely nothing like I was planning on, educated for, raised to be....except it is - because I am a good person, I use my education very differently than expected and I also "don't work" because it is a service role, and other things that are indeed great. His resume is different, but he's awesome too.
My parents could not control the outcome and my choices. Neither could his. Yes, they loved and love us and did the best they could. Apples and oranges is just a version of gaslighting.
This touched a nerve with me - perhaps because my husband and I are working together yet come from very different orientations about my step son who is currently in treatment at 21 and it's essentially "a mess" .... but we are not the ultimate authors of anyone's story, including our children's.
And on a lighter -ish note? Bombing teachers, principals, area superintendents, chief academic officers .... using twitter like a weapon and email like a machine gun.... Do. Not. Get. What. You. Want. #psaover
(And...) maybe most importantly - how are YOU today, BD? I hope you read all this and know we mean well even with all these diff comments and views.
Peace
A
My parents and my husband's parents raised us VERY differently. On paper, I'm smarter, he has more degrees, I had a high flying early career and made a lot of money out of the gate from college, he steadily rose thru the educational system and continues to aspire to superintendency then [ ] - my parents spent more money on me and were also very connected in terms of hugs and verbal expression - his parents were compartmentalized and very topic-based and results oriented without emotion.
I could go on.
My point, though, is this: we are both strong, successful, sober PEOPLE. My life is absolutely nothing like I was planning on, educated for, raised to be....except it is - because I am a good person, I use my education very differently than expected and I also "don't work" because it is a service role, and other things that are indeed great. His resume is different, but he's awesome too.
My parents could not control the outcome and my choices. Neither could his. Yes, they loved and love us and did the best they could. Apples and oranges is just a version of gaslighting.
This touched a nerve with me - perhaps because my husband and I are working together yet come from very different orientations about my step son who is currently in treatment at 21 and it's essentially "a mess" .... but we are not the ultimate authors of anyone's story, including our children's.
And on a lighter -ish note? Bombing teachers, principals, area superintendents, chief academic officers .... using twitter like a weapon and email like a machine gun.... Do. Not. Get. What. You. Want. #psaover
(And...) maybe most importantly - how are YOU today, BD? I hope you read all this and know we mean well even with all these diff comments and views.
Peace
A
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Second to parenting, schooling plays an enormous role in children’s lives. In fact, I’ve witnessed children succeeding and flourishing, due to positive school influence, and in spite of bad parenting. That’s why I was so saddened by the viewpoint of a poster here, engaged in the education system, truly saddened.
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OK guys
Things always get heated when kids are involved - the mama bear and papa bear thing comes out.
I have a great deal of respect for parents and teachers, although I'm neither.
Let try and not squabble with each other.
Lets respond to the discussion points presented here - not casting aspersions about the people posting them.
Dee
Administrator
SR
Things always get heated when kids are involved - the mama bear and papa bear thing comes out.
I have a great deal of respect for parents and teachers, although I'm neither.
Let try and not squabble with each other.
Lets respond to the discussion points presented here - not casting aspersions about the people posting them.
Dee
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SR
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Posts: 293
Hi Bulldog,
What an awful situation. When I went to high school from grade school I was picked on mercilessly from the boys at my new school because I was very smart.
To want to rush in and save your daughter makes you an awesome parent.
Please touch base with us and let us know how it goes.
What an awful situation. When I went to high school from grade school I was picked on mercilessly from the boys at my new school because I was very smart.
To want to rush in and save your daughter makes you an awesome parent.
Please touch base with us and let us know how it goes.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
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Apologies, all. This shouldn't have turned into a spitting match, which is what it feels like to me, and I don't have room or energy for that sort of thing anymore. I have to navigate too much of that at work, mostly with me in the mediation role.
Of course the school should do everything they can. That is a given, in my mind, but you're right, I didn't say that.
I just feel for Bulldog and his daughter and want her to be empowered. That's it. Shouldn't have gotten weird and accusatory like it did. I should have communicated better and taken more time with my post to be sure I was being clear with my message.
Thinking of you, Bulldog. <3
Of course the school should do everything they can. That is a given, in my mind, but you're right, I didn't say that.
I just feel for Bulldog and his daughter and want her to be empowered. That's it. Shouldn't have gotten weird and accusatory like it did. I should have communicated better and taken more time with my post to be sure I was being clear with my message.
Thinking of you, Bulldog. <3
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Join Date: Jul 2017
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i wonder if this is a regional thing, also? There are lots of anti bullying campaigns in California but I’m not sure the same can be said for other parts of the US. Because CA takes it so seriously, when we write emails or have meetings with teachers and administrators it gets handled.
I think it helps to think of affording kids the same rights we would expect in the workplace or anywhere: do we allow kids the same protection we might get in the workplace, where any allegation of harassment is immediately dealt with? Something to think about.
I think it helps to think of affording kids the same rights we would expect in the workplace or anywhere: do we allow kids the same protection we might get in the workplace, where any allegation of harassment is immediately dealt with? Something to think about.
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Join Date: Nov 2017
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We dealt with a situation with youngest. I spoke with the school and advised them, if I heard the kids name in my house once more, I wanted a meeting with the principal and the other parent. I never heard the kid mentioned again and youngest is a total tattle tale and almost never lies. I dealt with it adults to adults.
I know as a parent I would be disgusted if my kid were a bully. That's why I wanted the other parent involved if the school was unable to rectify it. My kids also know, if anyone ever lays a hand on them, I will be there with the police immediately.
Kids can deal with some stuff, but as parents, adults need to be involved to guide them.
Dh totally different, his son was bullied by a cousin, cousin told him his dad a new life, with a new wife and family, when youngest was born. Dh told him to take his cousin outside and if his aunts objected they could call dh. They settled it on the ice during a game, the Canadian way.
Bulldog you have my utmost sympathy. I have listened for 3 years to a gf who has a nightmare with the school and board over bullying. Her superintendent, I finally spoke to him, he gave a nice, rehearsed reply. He found himself the victim of a bully in me. I told him I was disappointed, I had previously defended him to a friend and I was upset with myself for defending a pretentious dick who most nights was half tanked by six. Then I got a bit dirty. I don't lay down for anyone and have the well earned reputation of a bee with an itch. Sometimes it serves me well. Stand up for your kid, you are her parent. Do not let yourself be bullied either.
I know as a parent I would be disgusted if my kid were a bully. That's why I wanted the other parent involved if the school was unable to rectify it. My kids also know, if anyone ever lays a hand on them, I will be there with the police immediately.
Kids can deal with some stuff, but as parents, adults need to be involved to guide them.
Dh totally different, his son was bullied by a cousin, cousin told him his dad a new life, with a new wife and family, when youngest was born. Dh told him to take his cousin outside and if his aunts objected they could call dh. They settled it on the ice during a game, the Canadian way.
Bulldog you have my utmost sympathy. I have listened for 3 years to a gf who has a nightmare with the school and board over bullying. Her superintendent, I finally spoke to him, he gave a nice, rehearsed reply. He found himself the victim of a bully in me. I told him I was disappointed, I had previously defended him to a friend and I was upset with myself for defending a pretentious dick who most nights was half tanked by six. Then I got a bit dirty. I don't lay down for anyone and have the well earned reputation of a bee with an itch. Sometimes it serves me well. Stand up for your kid, you are her parent. Do not let yourself be bullied either.
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So here's the thing....
My buddies 13 year old daughter killed herself 6 years ago. They tried to empower her, to teach her to blow it off, etc...it got to be too much and she committed suicide. The school had a zero tolerance policy and that goes as far as anyone is willing to push it at them. They only act when parents are breathing down their neck. soooooo................
I could be a monster. I know who they are, where they live, what their parents do and their social media pages. I got all that before my kid went back to school....you can imagine what a monster could do to protect their own.
What I did do: I went to the school and told the vice principal that if she fails my child, I take her out of school and home school her. I'm giving them a chance to make it right but I WILL NOT allow this to continue. If I have to follow the rules by not taking things into my own hands, then they are bound by the same ethics. They get ONE chance to make it right.
My kids are my heart. Why I stayed alive and why I stay sober. Make no mistake about me. The monster is sleeping, not dead.
They get one chance and they've been warned.
My buddies 13 year old daughter killed herself 6 years ago. They tried to empower her, to teach her to blow it off, etc...it got to be too much and she committed suicide. The school had a zero tolerance policy and that goes as far as anyone is willing to push it at them. They only act when parents are breathing down their neck. soooooo................
I could be a monster. I know who they are, where they live, what their parents do and their social media pages. I got all that before my kid went back to school....you can imagine what a monster could do to protect their own.
What I did do: I went to the school and told the vice principal that if she fails my child, I take her out of school and home school her. I'm giving them a chance to make it right but I WILL NOT allow this to continue. If I have to follow the rules by not taking things into my own hands, then they are bound by the same ethics. They get ONE chance to make it right.
My kids are my heart. Why I stayed alive and why I stay sober. Make no mistake about me. The monster is sleeping, not dead.
They get one chance and they've been warned.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Originally Posted by BullDog777
So here's the thing....
My buddies 13 year old daughter killed herself 6 years ago. They tried to empower her, to teach her to blow it off, etc...it got to be too much and she committed suicide. The school had a zero tolerance policy and that goes as far as anyone is willing to push it at them. They only act when parents are breathing down their neck. soooooo................
I could be a monster. I know who they are, where they live, what their parents do and their social media pages. I got all that before my kid went back to school....you can imagine what a monster could do to protect their own.
What I did do: I went to the school and told the vice principal that if she fails my child, I take her out of school and home school her. I'm giving them a chance to make it right but I WILL NOT allow this to continue. If I have to follow the rules by not taking things into my own hands, then they are bound by the same ethics. They get ONE chance to make it right.
My kids are my heart. Why I stayed alive and why I stay sober. Make no mistake about me. The monster is sleeping, not dead.
They get one chance and they've been warned.
My buddies 13 year old daughter killed herself 6 years ago. They tried to empower her, to teach her to blow it off, etc...it got to be too much and she committed suicide. The school had a zero tolerance policy and that goes as far as anyone is willing to push it at them. They only act when parents are breathing down their neck. soooooo................
I could be a monster. I know who they are, where they live, what their parents do and their social media pages. I got all that before my kid went back to school....you can imagine what a monster could do to protect their own.
What I did do: I went to the school and told the vice principal that if she fails my child, I take her out of school and home school her. I'm giving them a chance to make it right but I WILL NOT allow this to continue. If I have to follow the rules by not taking things into my own hands, then they are bound by the same ethics. They get ONE chance to make it right.
My kids are my heart. Why I stayed alive and why I stay sober. Make no mistake about me. The monster is sleeping, not dead.
They get one chance and they've been warned.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,906
Originally Posted by fini
i wonder if talking to the parents would be of use, too?
However, it will be the school that does the talking.
It's best for everyone involved if I do not have any contact with them.
I can do a lot of things in sobriety....but that might take self control that I'm not sure I have as of yet. Talking with the parents one on one.....not sure that's a good idea for me.
I tend to be a bit "scary" when I get upset. I'm a very large, imposing person and I tend to alarm people that have never dealt with me before. That's not a message I'm trying to send. I think the more diplomatic this is handled, the better.
They broke the rules. Now they must face the consequences the school has outlined as punishment. I will respect that and the school will either do their part or they won't.
Either way, the problem will be solved.
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