Biggest problem; the witching hour
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 86
Biggest problem; the witching hour
Hello there,
I haven't posted here in ages so before I get started I'll give a quick update. Since February this year I've been going to SMART recovery meetings and this week I'm dropping into one of the AA meetings. Recently I had a bit of a wake-up call. I have been doing retail work in a charity shop and was recently told not to bother coming in due to reliability (calling in sick with hangovers) & to get myself sorted. In a way I'm thankful. The truth is, this problem is a threat to getting work, a threat to my career and a threat to independence a threat to the possibility of getting a girlfriend and so much more.
Anyway the main difficulty I'm having is the evenings in which I want it. I usually have no desire on evening of days in which I'm hungover but on other evenings the thought appears and nags relentlessly. It's not so much a craving, but a long nag, nag, nag. Those evenings feel like a loooooong drawn out wait for the off license (liquor store) to close. It's like a pressure that slowly builds up and up. It's the fear that it will get unbearable just before the closing time, that I'll cave, and be up stupidly late, or if I cave in earlier I will get the session out the way without going to bed excessively late. It's like being trapped between a rock and a hard place.
Now, I have 'white-knuckled' it many times before and frankly, found the experience to be HELL. There's been times when I've gone on long walks, runs and bike rides in an attempt to get through it and distract myself, only to be totally unable to think of anything else. In fact, it's the FEAR of going through that which is a big driver.
The thing is, when I have white-knuckled it like that, two things have happened a) it's only made me want to drink more the next time I feel like it & b) when I tried to resist a second (or rarely a third) time the thought of how miserable I felt and what sort of a punishment it felt like. I'm blaming myself for not having the willpower, stamina and pain tolerance to endure it. I feel trapped.
Those evenings feel like a LONG, DRAWN OUT TORTUROUS WAIT.
I've explained this situation to the people in SMART, they all get the experience. I was told that what I'm experiencing is not so much a craving, but the 'witching hour'.
I was also told that it's like a 'negotiating' process & that when that thought comes in, I've kind of lost already.
*Note also, that LONELINESS is a major factor that makes my evenings torturous in conjunction with the desire to drink.
Another observation is, during weeks I've drank frequently, I drink less per session than those weeks in which I've drank less frequently. It's seems like, the longer I go without, the more I want it and the more precious that next drink is.
I thought cravings were supposed to last 20 to 30 mins. The thing is, I've tried waiting it out (in the hope that it would go away) only to find it doesn't, wait another 20 minutes, still hasn't gone away, repeat, but feeling a terrible feeling of deprivation, the fear I'll cave in, meanwhile the time's marching on, the tie the off-license closes comes to the fore. That's the experience of the evenings when I get the desire to drink & my attempts to resist them.
The only thing that stands between me and getting sober is FEAR, the fear of that ordeal. Is there hope? Is there a way out of this loop?
Thanks
I haven't posted here in ages so before I get started I'll give a quick update. Since February this year I've been going to SMART recovery meetings and this week I'm dropping into one of the AA meetings. Recently I had a bit of a wake-up call. I have been doing retail work in a charity shop and was recently told not to bother coming in due to reliability (calling in sick with hangovers) & to get myself sorted. In a way I'm thankful. The truth is, this problem is a threat to getting work, a threat to my career and a threat to independence a threat to the possibility of getting a girlfriend and so much more.
Anyway the main difficulty I'm having is the evenings in which I want it. I usually have no desire on evening of days in which I'm hungover but on other evenings the thought appears and nags relentlessly. It's not so much a craving, but a long nag, nag, nag. Those evenings feel like a loooooong drawn out wait for the off license (liquor store) to close. It's like a pressure that slowly builds up and up. It's the fear that it will get unbearable just before the closing time, that I'll cave, and be up stupidly late, or if I cave in earlier I will get the session out the way without going to bed excessively late. It's like being trapped between a rock and a hard place.
Now, I have 'white-knuckled' it many times before and frankly, found the experience to be HELL. There's been times when I've gone on long walks, runs and bike rides in an attempt to get through it and distract myself, only to be totally unable to think of anything else. In fact, it's the FEAR of going through that which is a big driver.
The thing is, when I have white-knuckled it like that, two things have happened a) it's only made me want to drink more the next time I feel like it & b) when I tried to resist a second (or rarely a third) time the thought of how miserable I felt and what sort of a punishment it felt like. I'm blaming myself for not having the willpower, stamina and pain tolerance to endure it. I feel trapped.
Those evenings feel like a LONG, DRAWN OUT TORTUROUS WAIT.
I've explained this situation to the people in SMART, they all get the experience. I was told that what I'm experiencing is not so much a craving, but the 'witching hour'.
I was also told that it's like a 'negotiating' process & that when that thought comes in, I've kind of lost already.
*Note also, that LONELINESS is a major factor that makes my evenings torturous in conjunction with the desire to drink.
Another observation is, during weeks I've drank frequently, I drink less per session than those weeks in which I've drank less frequently. It's seems like, the longer I go without, the more I want it and the more precious that next drink is.
I thought cravings were supposed to last 20 to 30 mins. The thing is, I've tried waiting it out (in the hope that it would go away) only to find it doesn't, wait another 20 minutes, still hasn't gone away, repeat, but feeling a terrible feeling of deprivation, the fear I'll cave in, meanwhile the time's marching on, the tie the off-license closes comes to the fore. That's the experience of the evenings when I get the desire to drink & my attempts to resist them.
The only thing that stands between me and getting sober is FEAR, the fear of that ordeal. Is there hope? Is there a way out of this loop?
Thanks
Member
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,602
Very well described, Vulcan. This step from giving in to cravings to not giving in until they eventually go away seems to be the crucial step for all here who have managed to attain long term sobriety. I look forward to hearing the responses.
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Location: Norfolk, VA
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Originally Posted by vulcan30 
...a terrible feeling of deprivation.
Your addiction knows that. That's why it is unrelenting. It knows you'll give in.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,065
If you try a cognitive approach like Easyway, you will start to mentally associate not drinking as a gift rather than a punishment. Feel sorry for those who do drink or have not found freedom, embrace the cravings, psychological withdrawal, welcome them because they are one step closer to your own personal freedom from alcoholism.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 26
Vulcan I don't post much but I really identify with your post. I had to just accept that the urge to drink can be really strong. Some times I used to just I lay in bed telling myself not to drink. Distracting myself didn't help much. I realized that fighting urges was not going to kill me, it would just make me unhappy for a while. Drinking could actually kill me or make me hurt others. After about six months I no longer had urges this bad. I also used AA and I'm familiar with SMART as well. I also went to counseling. Hope this helps.
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 1,327
Originally Posted by MyLittleHorsie
If you try a cognitive approach like Easyway, you will start to mentally associate not drinking as a gift rather than a punishment. Feel sorry for those who do drink or have not found freedom, embrace the cravings, psychological withdrawal, welcome them because they are one step closer to your own personal freedom from alcoholism.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 86
Thanks everyone, I glad you all relate. Fortunately tonight I'm not craving it that much, but tomorrow evening I might be (I'm dreading it), but am planning on going to an AA meeting between 7:30 & 9pm that evening, during the worst of my witching hour.
As for Allen Carr, I've recently bought and read his book Easyway to control Alcohol. I like the metaphor of the pitcher plant and that everyone who drinks is on the same spectrum sliding into the same pitcher. Anyway, Allen's approach is all about identifying the reasons you drink and removing them, largely by changing your belief structure. On that note during times I've drank, I've managed to take notes, asking questions such as what do I feel I'm getting? What do I fear happening if I don't? How can I get this without alcohol? Allen Carr is right, on some level I still believe that I'm getting some kind of pleasure or crutch out of alcohol, that's probably why I'm having such a hard time resisting it, despite the fact that drinkin is making me miserable and isn't doing anything positive for me.
In the meantime I'm going to manage these witching hours by going to AA meetings. Lots of people at SMART also go to AA. I'm told that meetings are often at that time in the evenings purely due to the fact that it's many people's hardest time.
As for Allen Carr, I've recently bought and read his book Easyway to control Alcohol. I like the metaphor of the pitcher plant and that everyone who drinks is on the same spectrum sliding into the same pitcher. Anyway, Allen's approach is all about identifying the reasons you drink and removing them, largely by changing your belief structure. On that note during times I've drank, I've managed to take notes, asking questions such as what do I feel I'm getting? What do I fear happening if I don't? How can I get this without alcohol? Allen Carr is right, on some level I still believe that I'm getting some kind of pleasure or crutch out of alcohol, that's probably why I'm having such a hard time resisting it, despite the fact that drinkin is making me miserable and isn't doing anything positive for me.
In the meantime I'm going to manage these witching hours by going to AA meetings. Lots of people at SMART also go to AA. I'm told that meetings are often at that time in the evenings purely due to the fact that it's many people's hardest time.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 1,327
Originally Posted by vulcan30
In the meantime I'm going to manage these witching hours by going to AA meetings. Lots of people at SMART also go to AA. I'm told that meetings are often at that time in the evenings purely due to the fact that it's many people's hardest time.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,283
Originally Posted by vulcan30
Hello there,
I haven't posted here in ages so before I get started I'll give a quick update. Since February this year I've been going to SMART recovery meetings and this week I'm dropping into one of the AA meetings. Recently I had a bit of a wake-up call. I have been doing retail work in a charity shop and was recently told not to bother coming in due to reliability (calling in sick with hangovers) & to get myself sorted. In a way I'm thankful. The truth is, this problem is a threat to getting work, a threat to my career and a threat to independence a threat to the possibility of getting a girlfriend and so much more.
Anyway the main difficulty I'm having is the evenings in which I want it. I usually have no desire on evening of days in which I'm hungover but on other evenings the thought appears and nags relentlessly. It's not so much a craving, but a long nag, nag, nag. Those evenings feel like a loooooong drawn out wait for the off license (liquor store) to close. It's like a pressure that slowly builds up and up. It's the fear that it will get unbearable just before the closing time, that I'll cave, and be up stupidly late, or if I cave in earlier I will get the session out the way without going to bed excessively late. It's like being trapped between a rock and a hard place.
Now, I have 'white-knuckled' it many times before and frankly, found the experience to be HELL. There's been times when I've gone on long walks, runs and bike rides in an attempt to get through it and distract myself, only to be totally unable to think of anything else. In fact, it's the FEAR of going through that which is a big driver.
The thing is, when I have white-knuckled it like that, two things have happened a) it's only made me want to drink more the next time I feel like it & b) when I tried to resist a second (or rarely a third) time the thought of how miserable I felt and what sort of a punishment it felt like. I'm blaming myself for not having the willpower, stamina and pain tolerance to endure it. I feel trapped.
Those evenings feel like a LONG, DRAWN OUT TORTUROUS WAIT.
I've explained this situation to the people in SMART, they all get the experience. I was told that what I'm experiencing is not so much a craving, but the 'witching hour'.
I was also told that it's like a 'negotiating' process & that when that thought comes in, I've kind of lost already.
*Note also, that LONELINESS is a major factor that makes my evenings torturous in conjunction with the desire to drink.
Another observation is, during weeks I've drank frequently, I drink less per session than those weeks in which I've drank less frequently. It's seems like, the longer I go without, the more I want it and the more precious that next drink is.
I thought cravings were supposed to last 20 to 30 mins. The thing is, I've tried waiting it out (in the hope that it would go away) only to find it doesn't, wait another 20 minutes, still hasn't gone away, repeat, but feeling a terrible feeling of deprivation, the fear I'll cave in, meanwhile the time's marching on, the tie the off-license closes comes to the fore. That's the experience of the evenings when I get the desire to drink & my attempts to resist them.
The only thing that stands between me and getting sober is FEAR, the fear of that ordeal. Is there hope? Is there a way out of this loop?
Thanks
I haven't posted here in ages so before I get started I'll give a quick update. Since February this year I've been going to SMART recovery meetings and this week I'm dropping into one of the AA meetings. Recently I had a bit of a wake-up call. I have been doing retail work in a charity shop and was recently told not to bother coming in due to reliability (calling in sick with hangovers) & to get myself sorted. In a way I'm thankful. The truth is, this problem is a threat to getting work, a threat to my career and a threat to independence a threat to the possibility of getting a girlfriend and so much more.
Anyway the main difficulty I'm having is the evenings in which I want it. I usually have no desire on evening of days in which I'm hungover but on other evenings the thought appears and nags relentlessly. It's not so much a craving, but a long nag, nag, nag. Those evenings feel like a loooooong drawn out wait for the off license (liquor store) to close. It's like a pressure that slowly builds up and up. It's the fear that it will get unbearable just before the closing time, that I'll cave, and be up stupidly late, or if I cave in earlier I will get the session out the way without going to bed excessively late. It's like being trapped between a rock and a hard place.
Now, I have 'white-knuckled' it many times before and frankly, found the experience to be HELL. There's been times when I've gone on long walks, runs and bike rides in an attempt to get through it and distract myself, only to be totally unable to think of anything else. In fact, it's the FEAR of going through that which is a big driver.
The thing is, when I have white-knuckled it like that, two things have happened a) it's only made me want to drink more the next time I feel like it & b) when I tried to resist a second (or rarely a third) time the thought of how miserable I felt and what sort of a punishment it felt like. I'm blaming myself for not having the willpower, stamina and pain tolerance to endure it. I feel trapped.
Those evenings feel like a LONG, DRAWN OUT TORTUROUS WAIT.
I've explained this situation to the people in SMART, they all get the experience. I was told that what I'm experiencing is not so much a craving, but the 'witching hour'.
I was also told that it's like a 'negotiating' process & that when that thought comes in, I've kind of lost already.
*Note also, that LONELINESS is a major factor that makes my evenings torturous in conjunction with the desire to drink.
Another observation is, during weeks I've drank frequently, I drink less per session than those weeks in which I've drank less frequently. It's seems like, the longer I go without, the more I want it and the more precious that next drink is.
I thought cravings were supposed to last 20 to 30 mins. The thing is, I've tried waiting it out (in the hope that it would go away) only to find it doesn't, wait another 20 minutes, still hasn't gone away, repeat, but feeling a terrible feeling of deprivation, the fear I'll cave in, meanwhile the time's marching on, the tie the off-license closes comes to the fore. That's the experience of the evenings when I get the desire to drink & my attempts to resist them.
The only thing that stands between me and getting sober is FEAR, the fear of that ordeal. Is there hope? Is there a way out of this loop?
Thanks
sober style
Join Date: May 2016
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 2,382
It's good that you're observing what your mind is doing in those trying times when drinking seems inevitable. Our minds plays all kinds of tricks with us and we need to always be paying attention to the signals it's sending us. But that doesn't mean we have to go along unquestioningly. Our minds often lie to us! They'll package a sudden urge to drink with a feeling of inevitability, or just general doom and dread and negativity, it knows all kinds of tricks that we've fallen for in the past.
But there's a better part of ourselves that's always there with us too, that wants the best for us, that wants us to take care of these bodies we've been entrusted with, that wants us to be healthy not sick. This is the part of us that needs attention too, and careful nurturing. That's a turnabout trick we can play on our lying minds that can help us get thru the tough times.
But there's a better part of ourselves that's always there with us too, that wants the best for us, that wants us to take care of these bodies we've been entrusted with, that wants us to be healthy not sick. This is the part of us that needs attention too, and careful nurturing. That's a turnabout trick we can play on our lying minds that can help us get thru the tough times.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7
I can relate to that relentless preoccupation...its exhausting. I'm sorry about your job, but maybe it is the wake up call...just don't use it as an excuse to drink more. I look for excuses to drink. Filling the "drinking" time with something else has helped in the past. I need to practice what I preach as I've been going through a similar pattern to yours. For a while I played scrabble online obsessively just to kill a few hours before I could fall asleep with a guided meditation. While I do not use 12-step model myself, there aren't enough alternative meetings around me. Going to meetings is a great way to 1)not isolate 2) get through the "witching hourS"3)you just might make some solid sober connections. It takes time to undue the compulsion. Right now I'm so fragile feeling I just lock myself in my room after work and wait for morning to come...on the nights I've been successful. Good luck to you. I believe you'll find your way!
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Vulcan- cool update! I'd also add that "switching up my habits" was essential. I gradually found stuff I like to do in sobriety- but at first it was whatever gobbled time. And sometimes that meant a nap at 5p even if it would be challenges sleeping thru the night. Literally, whatever I need to do to kill time.
Glad you are working thru ideas for this challenge we have. Keep going!
Glad you are working thru ideas for this challenge we have. Keep going!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 88
Originally Posted by MyLittleHorsie
If you try a cognitive approach like Easyway, you will start to mentally associate not drinking as a gift rather than a punishment. Feel sorry for those who do drink or have not found freedom, embrace the cravings, psychological withdrawal, welcome them because they are one step closer to your own personal freedom from alcoholism.
I'm very early in all this. Only 4 days. But when I get the slightest "poor me" feeling, or that I'm depraving myself b/c I won't drink, I immediately direct my thoughts to "I'm being good to myself b/c I'm not drinking". I'm starting to view drinking as a negative. Something harmful to my body. Like feeding the disease in me. Trying to look at it as the gift I'm finally giving myself. Praying I can keep my thoughts positive.
Hoping everyone can muscle through this long weekend with confidence and strength. It will be my first weekend without alcohol in a very long time.
xo
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Tn
Posts: 3,043
Originally Posted by vulcan30
Hello there,
The truth is, this problem is a threat to getting work, a threat to my career and a threat to independence a threat to the possibility of getting a girlfriend and so much more.
The truth is, this problem is a threat to getting work, a threat to my career and a threat to independence a threat to the possibility of getting a girlfriend and so much more.
The fear of my ability to keep my job and the concern that I would forfeit my rather nascent legal career helped me to finally decide to seek help for my alcoholism.
I'm so glad they did.
I didn't copy the rest of your post about how miserable it is to try to resist drinking urges and, if you drink, to do so in a tight time frame so you can still get some sleep (inasmuch as passed out drunkenness is "sleep") and achieve some modicum of functionality the next day at work.
It was a lot of trouble to try to feed the beast and then be able to wake up and get to work the next day.
And then all afternoon I could think of little other than picking up some beer and whiskey after work to get a buzz before I went to the bar.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 148
This may sound a little simplistic but it helps me to organise my day so that at the exact time I usually start drinking, I eat something really filling. For me that is a big bowl of oats, seeds, nuts, yoghurt and fruit. Cold (this is important - booze does not go with cold yoghurt) I make this first thing so that I know I have it. Even after 2+years (with a short period of relapse) this often saves me. I have combined this with Saoutchiks ultra early morning start to shorten the hours of craving in the evenings. Obviously, not as important as recognising and dealing with the psychological processes but a practical idea you can adapt to suit you if you wish
Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 2,229
I so relate to your post, Vulcan. What has made a difference for me is building a 'recovery toolbox', I think it's also known as a recovery plan. I keep adding things to it. The book "The unexpected Joy of Being Sober" has been a great help to me. She tells thirty things she has in her 'toolbox' and also shares about her 'physical toolbox', which is a bag with things in it that she carries around. She encourages you to make your own toolbox. She also loves sobriety and talks about how wonderful it is compared to her drinking days. I'm looking at it like that now, too. Being sober opens up a whole new life for us.
A few things in my toolbox that are a huge help: Recovery podcasts that I listen to on my drive home, or at home if I'm having a harder time later. SR, posting and reading here every day. AA is a huge help to me. Having a big, nutritious dinner very early in the evening. That one can be tricky, I have to plan ahead for it. I have a couple of people I can call and talk to when the urge hits. One is from SR, another from AA. Also journaling has helped a lot, but I've found writing here is even better, because there's something about knowing others may read what I've written that makes it part of a connection instead of just to me. Also, I am using a daily sobriety time counter that tells how long I've been sober, gives awards for periods of time, shows how much money I've saved and the good things happening to my body. It's called Easy quit drinking.
There's more, but I'm going on too long. I encourage you to create a plan and a toolbox and keep trying no matter how many times you fail!
A few things in my toolbox that are a huge help: Recovery podcasts that I listen to on my drive home, or at home if I'm having a harder time later. SR, posting and reading here every day. AA is a huge help to me. Having a big, nutritious dinner very early in the evening. That one can be tricky, I have to plan ahead for it. I have a couple of people I can call and talk to when the urge hits. One is from SR, another from AA. Also journaling has helped a lot, but I've found writing here is even better, because there's something about knowing others may read what I've written that makes it part of a connection instead of just to me. Also, I am using a daily sobriety time counter that tells how long I've been sober, gives awards for periods of time, shows how much money I've saved and the good things happening to my body. It's called Easy quit drinking.
There's more, but I'm going on too long. I encourage you to create a plan and a toolbox and keep trying no matter how many times you fail!
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