Alcohol abstinence and pleasure substitutes
Pastafarian
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 122
Alcohol abstinence and pleasure substitutes
I saw on another thread talk about food and other things being used as substitutes for pleasure seeking, addictive behavior with respect to alcohol.
What is your experience with this? It would seem to be a harmless and helpful diversion in a limited form.
For example, since I quit drinking beer, I lost 8 pounds. Very quickly. This even though I now allow myself to eat chocolate a lot more often than before. I mean once I saw I was down 8 pounds I gave into my craving for chocolate more often. It doesn't seem to have affected my weight.
Other than that, I don't eat more than before or differently. I don't feel drawn to pleasure seeking that I did not have before.
What is your experience with this? It would seem to be a harmless and helpful diversion in a limited form.
For example, since I quit drinking beer, I lost 8 pounds. Very quickly. This even though I now allow myself to eat chocolate a lot more often than before. I mean once I saw I was down 8 pounds I gave into my craving for chocolate more often. It doesn't seem to have affected my weight.
Other than that, I don't eat more than before or differently. I don't feel drawn to pleasure seeking that I did not have before.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
I unfortunately was leaner, and felt healthier, as a drinker. I never ate sugar or white flour, because I had alcohol to use. Since getting sober, my drug of choice has changed to sugar and I haven’t dealt with it yet. I am in the “I’ll try to work around it and moderate it” stage, which has gone about as well as moderating alcohol did.
As a result, I am experiencing inflammation and fatigue a lot, I’m not able to do as much exercise as I used to because I get joint pain, and I have sugar cravings all the time. These problems were nonexistent when I was paleo and drinking whiskey. I know paleo without whiskey is what I need to do, I just haven’t been able to conquer it yet.
This has been very difficult for me personally, lapsing back into food addictions with my intolerances that I knew were there in the beginning, but I let myself do it because quitting alcohol was so hard. There is also the element of trying paleo in sobriety and noticing my alcohol cravings returning which has been terrifying for me every time so I go back to sugar.
So, I can’t do CrossFit or the other hiit classes I used to do, my face and joints are swollen, and I know why. I sit here and tell others to “just quit” but I haven’t really done that either, have I? I just switched addictions. It gives all of you an inkling of how bad my alcohol problems were, that I am still sober despite feeling less metabolically healthy since quitting.
As a result, I am experiencing inflammation and fatigue a lot, I’m not able to do as much exercise as I used to because I get joint pain, and I have sugar cravings all the time. These problems were nonexistent when I was paleo and drinking whiskey. I know paleo without whiskey is what I need to do, I just haven’t been able to conquer it yet.
This has been very difficult for me personally, lapsing back into food addictions with my intolerances that I knew were there in the beginning, but I let myself do it because quitting alcohol was so hard. There is also the element of trying paleo in sobriety and noticing my alcohol cravings returning which has been terrifying for me every time so I go back to sugar.
So, I can’t do CrossFit or the other hiit classes I used to do, my face and joints are swollen, and I know why. I sit here and tell others to “just quit” but I haven’t really done that either, have I? I just switched addictions. It gives all of you an inkling of how bad my alcohol problems were, that I am still sober despite feeling less metabolically healthy since quitting.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
What is your experience with this? It would seem to be a harmless and helpful diversion in a limited form.
I went full pelt into sugar.
I ended up even more overweight than I was a drinker and was a diabetic type 2 or near it depending on who I talked to.
12 years later I'm just starting to come to grips with that now.
As deadly as my alcohol addiction? probably not as immediately dangerous - but still not good.
Fellow travellers be warned....
D
All is Change
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
www.thriftbooks.com/w/banish-your-belly-the-ultimate-guide-for-achieving-a-lean-strong-body---now_mens-health-books_kenton-robinson/1371390/#isbn=0875965016&idiq=11869133
Is full of good advice, exercises and information. Worth reading again and again.
I used that to work out an exercise routine and a diet.
Some particular things I find helpful :
Be realistic. It's going to take time.
Make my own food. Don't use takeaways.
Open the mind to the idea of being happy. Learn meditation.
Practice giving up stuff. Counter any tendency to accumulate. Share, particularly things of value.
Is full of good advice, exercises and information. Worth reading again and again.
I used that to work out an exercise routine and a diet.
Some particular things I find helpful :
Be realistic. It's going to take time.
Make my own food. Don't use takeaways.
Open the mind to the idea of being happy. Learn meditation.
Practice giving up stuff. Counter any tendency to accumulate. Share, particularly things of value.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,065
That book sounds great!
The longer I am sober, the more I see pleasure seeking actions in myself. Having "stuff", (except tack, that I NEED), I pared down what I have, I no longer have things for the sake of having them. I had hundreds of pairs of shoes when dh and I got together, I have a pair of muck boots, ballet flats, cowboy boots for showing, red loafers, because, well I ain't dead lol and running shoes. I think I went too far with my closet, but I lost 30lbs, so a lot had to go.
Like others I still struggle with sweets, I have sugar benders. Sometimes they are few and far between, but kindling, yeah that describes my sugar issues.
The longer I am sober, the more improvement I see to make, finally kicked smoking, pared down my house, changed my hair to something less work. I look for happiness in myself and my relationships with others. I am human and not infallible, so I will forever be a work in progress.
The longer I am sober, the more I see pleasure seeking actions in myself. Having "stuff", (except tack, that I NEED), I pared down what I have, I no longer have things for the sake of having them. I had hundreds of pairs of shoes when dh and I got together, I have a pair of muck boots, ballet flats, cowboy boots for showing, red loafers, because, well I ain't dead lol and running shoes. I think I went too far with my closet, but I lost 30lbs, so a lot had to go.
Like others I still struggle with sweets, I have sugar benders. Sometimes they are few and far between, but kindling, yeah that describes my sugar issues.
The longer I am sober, the more improvement I see to make, finally kicked smoking, pared down my house, changed my hair to something less work. I look for happiness in myself and my relationships with others. I am human and not infallible, so I will forever be a work in progress.
All is Change
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
Originally Posted by MyLittleHorsie 
That book sounds great!
The longer I am sober, the more I see pleasure seeking actions in myself. Having "stuff", (except tack, that I NEED), I pared down what I have, I no longer have things for the sake of having them. I had hundreds of pairs of shoes when dh and I got together, I have a pair of muck boots, ballet flats, cowboy boots for showing, red loafers, because, well I ain't dead lol and running shoes. I think I went too far with my closet, but I lost 30lbs, so a lot had to go.
Like others I still struggle with sweets, I have sugar benders. Sometimes they are few and far between, but kindling, yeah that describes my sugar issues.
The longer I am sober, the more improvement I see to make, finally kicked smoking, pared down my house, changed my hair to something less work. I look for happiness in myself and my relationships with others. I am human and not infallible, so I will forever be a work in progress.
The longer I am sober, the more I see pleasure seeking actions in myself. Having "stuff", (except tack, that I NEED), I pared down what I have, I no longer have things for the sake of having them. I had hundreds of pairs of shoes when dh and I got together, I have a pair of muck boots, ballet flats, cowboy boots for showing, red loafers, because, well I ain't dead lol and running shoes. I think I went too far with my closet, but I lost 30lbs, so a lot had to go.
Like others I still struggle with sweets, I have sugar benders. Sometimes they are few and far between, but kindling, yeah that describes my sugar issues.
The longer I am sober, the more improvement I see to make, finally kicked smoking, pared down my house, changed my hair to something less work. I look for happiness in myself and my relationships with others. I am human and not infallible, so I will forever be a work in progress.
coolSome other things I find helps.
Leave the car and ride a bicycle around town. Or walk.
I used to get a bad back until I ditched the chiro recomended supermattress for a firm bed platform with a thick yoga mat. Haven't had a crook back since.
Recognise that the hunger pangs are not important. They come and go. If I stay busy they're not there. There is no need whatsoever for the panic, thinking I'm going to starve. Not eating doesn't kill a generally well fed person. Quite the contrary. If you know the diet is good the hunger is just craving that can be endured. I've learned through experience that the more I starve it by just looking at it when it's there, rather than letting it dictate what to do, it passes away. If I feed it whenever it raises it's head it becomes a bottomless bucket.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 409
I am not too scientific either.
When I quit drinking weight loss was one side effect I was expecting.
After all, a bottle of wine has 600 calories and just eliminating that every day should count for something right (especially if two are actually getting consumed)?
Eating habits stayed the same, alcohol calories gone and gained three pounds.
Discouraging yes but the benefits of being off the toxic drink have far exceeded my expectations.
I know I will figure out the weight thing.
When I quit drinking weight loss was one side effect I was expecting.
After all, a bottle of wine has 600 calories and just eliminating that every day should count for something right (especially if two are actually getting consumed)?
Eating habits stayed the same, alcohol calories gone and gained three pounds.
Discouraging yes but the benefits of being off the toxic drink have far exceeded my expectations.
I know I will figure out the weight thing.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Originally Posted by Need2Know
I saw on another thread talk about food and other things being used as substitutes for pleasure seeking, addictive behavior with respect to alcohol.
What is your experience with this? It would seem to be a harmless and helpful diversion in a limited form.
For example, since I quit drinking beer, I lost 8 pounds. Very quickly. This even though I now allow myself to eat chocolate a lot more often than before. I mean once I saw I was down 8 pounds I gave into my craving for chocolate more often. It doesn't seem to have affected my weight.
Other than that, I don't eat more than before or differently. I don't feel drawn to pleasure seeking that I did not have before.
What is your experience with this? It would seem to be a harmless and helpful diversion in a limited form.
For example, since I quit drinking beer, I lost 8 pounds. Very quickly. This even though I now allow myself to eat chocolate a lot more often than before. I mean once I saw I was down 8 pounds I gave into my craving for chocolate more often. It doesn't seem to have affected my weight.
Other than that, I don't eat more than before or differently. I don't feel drawn to pleasure seeking that I did not have before.
My experience is I ultimately turned to career/money but I'm not sure this was a bad thing given my financial situation when I got sober,.
In the short run it was potato chips but I didn't beat myself up over this. I wasn't drinking and being good to myself.
I still have to watch the sweets and these days it's ice cream.
The key is moderation and (at least for now...) I'm doing just that.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 580
Im at end of 11th week sober and its been up and down for me. I noticed that I tend to become compulsive about things and like Dee said, its apparent to me now that I dont do anything in moderation....
I have become a compulsive " Saturday/Sunday morning Yard-Saler". I got compulsive with the Monopoly game at the grocery store checkouts, compulsive couponing and bargain shopper, overexercising is my most accepted compulsion, ad overeating and dermotillomania are my least favorite...
I have recognized that my boozing served a separate purpose over the years ago to stifle my overeating/emotional eating issues (..I rarely ate in active alcoholism). Newly sober, I've had more binge episodes than I am comfortable with and grateful that I can address this issues now that I am sober. I know that the best life awaits me, even with all the disordered behaviors I am facing. I am very uncomfortable and standoffish with strangers most of the time. I am grateful to be able to get out to the gym and be polite towards others, even though its merely small talk and still have an intense fear of intimacy and vulnerability. This thread just reminded me to make an appointment with a therapist, and I thank you for that.
I have become a compulsive " Saturday/Sunday morning Yard-Saler". I got compulsive with the Monopoly game at the grocery store checkouts, compulsive couponing and bargain shopper, overexercising is my most accepted compulsion, ad overeating and dermotillomania are my least favorite...
I have recognized that my boozing served a separate purpose over the years ago to stifle my overeating/emotional eating issues (..I rarely ate in active alcoholism). Newly sober, I've had more binge episodes than I am comfortable with and grateful that I can address this issues now that I am sober. I know that the best life awaits me, even with all the disordered behaviors I am facing. I am very uncomfortable and standoffish with strangers most of the time. I am grateful to be able to get out to the gym and be polite towards others, even though its merely small talk and still have an intense fear of intimacy and vulnerability. This thread just reminded me to make an appointment with a therapist, and I thank you for that.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
I remember reading in some sort of recovery literature about addiction as a form of aversion and attachment. Chronic aversion of unpleasant tasks, emotions, etc. and excessive attachment to the pleasant ones. I think there's truth in that.
As I've written about way too often my biggest cross addictions were cigarettes and then my relationship.. I smoked cigarettes as a drinker but they were more of an afterthought, take it or leave it kind of thing.. when I quit drinking it was a pack a day and I was a crazy person (internally at least) if I had to go too long without one. Then I became a crazy person consumed with my fears in my relationship if I didn't receive the reassurance I needed.
So for me I think it had to do with anxiety as much as or maybe more than pleasure seeking. Cigarettes weren't pleasurable period but I was addicted to them anyway, and I was able to find pleasure in my relationship until I switched my focus and started seeking a sense of "control" over my anxieties in that context. But I'm finally finding my way out of that one too with increased social support from other places and simply being able to see it for what it is.
Interesting you guys mention accumulation.. I feel disorganization is still a problem for me. I need to have better systems in place so that "things" (papers, clothes, emotions, whatever..) don't just pile up until they're completely overwhelming. I'm much better than I was about this but still need to keep working on it.
As I've written about way too often my biggest cross addictions were cigarettes and then my relationship.. I smoked cigarettes as a drinker but they were more of an afterthought, take it or leave it kind of thing.. when I quit drinking it was a pack a day and I was a crazy person (internally at least) if I had to go too long without one. Then I became a crazy person consumed with my fears in my relationship if I didn't receive the reassurance I needed.
So for me I think it had to do with anxiety as much as or maybe more than pleasure seeking. Cigarettes weren't pleasurable period but I was addicted to them anyway, and I was able to find pleasure in my relationship until I switched my focus and started seeking a sense of "control" over my anxieties in that context. But I'm finally finding my way out of that one too with increased social support from other places and simply being able to see it for what it is.
Interesting you guys mention accumulation.. I feel disorganization is still a problem for me. I need to have better systems in place so that "things" (papers, clothes, emotions, whatever..) don't just pile up until they're completely overwhelming. I'm much better than I was about this but still need to keep working on it.
All is Change
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
I know some of these are gonna be real hard for most people. They have been for me in the past. But somehow learning just how beneficial they are and finding that once the withdrawal symptoms subside it's really nice to enjoy the serenity and freedom from the chaos of ordinary life.
Some more things that help :
Have some almonds in the pocket to take instead of cigarettes.
Don't watch tv, listen to the news or read newspapers. Study, garden, do art.
Avoid stimulating the cravings. Avoid porn. Arguments. Shopping.
Give things you really like for yourself to someone else on a regular basis. I like money so when i go to the city I get a pocket of cash coins and give it away to beggars with no expectations. Once a guy without shoes came up to me and asked for money for some shoes so I gave him some, and my shoes. It still makes me happy. You get the idea...
Some more things that help :
Have some almonds in the pocket to take instead of cigarettes.
Don't watch tv, listen to the news or read newspapers. Study, garden, do art.
Avoid stimulating the cravings. Avoid porn. Arguments. Shopping.
Give things you really like for yourself to someone else on a regular basis. I like money so when i go to the city I get a pocket of cash coins and give it away to beggars with no expectations. Once a guy without shoes came up to me and asked for money for some shoes so I gave him some, and my shoes. It still makes me happy. You get the idea...
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
I don't consider sugar and caffeine drugs.
HOWEVER, I once did a step one over frozen yogurt....when I realized my anxiety over having enough in the fridge so I wouldn't run out was just like my obsession with having "enough" vodka.
I have gone up and down with sweets- eat an otherwise healthy diet and have worked my soft serve ice cream into it. Mainly, because I don't like feeling fat (can't exercise right now) and because it doesn't make me feel good to eat a ton of it.
On my list of things to worry about, this stuff is way at the bottom.
Drugs or high risk behavior or....those would be obvious replacement issues.
HOWEVER, I once did a step one over frozen yogurt....when I realized my anxiety over having enough in the fridge so I wouldn't run out was just like my obsession with having "enough" vodka.
I have gone up and down with sweets- eat an otherwise healthy diet and have worked my soft serve ice cream into it. Mainly, because I don't like feeling fat (can't exercise right now) and because it doesn't make me feel good to eat a ton of it.
On my list of things to worry about, this stuff is way at the bottom.
Drugs or high risk behavior or....those would be obvious replacement issues.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 141
All the beer had me at a healthy weight, minus the growing little beer belly. Day 173 and any weight the beer had added is gone, no gut at all and now I am teetering on "too skinny". I too had the intense sugar cravings right after quitting booze but they have gone by the wayside, my "addiction" now is peppermint tea (with sugar) but that's it.
Pastafarian
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by SIB
All the beer had me at a healthy weight, minus the growing little beer belly. Day 173 and any weight the beer had added is gone, no gut at all and now I am teetering on "too skinny". I too had the intense sugar cravings right after quitting booze but they have gone by the wayside, my "addiction" now is peppermint tea (with sugar) but that's it.
Has anyone else here cut out high calorie beers from their life and NOT lost weight?
I do think caffeine is a drug. Absolutely. Many people, maybe most, can handle caffeine in moderation. Others are in denial and have a serious habit and justify it as not being a harmful habit.
As far as drugs go, it is certainly down on the spectrum. Not as dangerous as alcohol or tobacco for sure. But an addictive drug habit none the less. Think about all the people that HAVE to have it as soon as they wake up. Have to have it EVERY day. To me that screams: drug addiction.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 732
I'm a nightmare, I jump out of bed to get my coffee hit and count the hours until the evening so I can eat puddings. The other day I noticed I was sipping hot tea, eating a mouthful, then puffing on my vape nearly all at the same time! I thought what the hell are you doing?! I wonder why I'm always looking for something to gratify me.
All is Change
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
I think the reason we always look for something to grarify us is for a couple of reasons.
We have a habit to reach for something gratifying when we become aware of how miserable we are and we haven't learned how to not be miserable.
We like and look for the feeling we have when we indulge ourselves in pleasure.
I think the solution is to find a way to be satisfied or happy with things just how they are no matter what our circumstances. IOW to be independent, self dependent in a real sense.
I think some kind of spirituality is essential. I don't mean you have to believe in a god, though I know that works for some people, I mean you have to be open to change in a fundamental way.
Some tried and true things that counter sense gratification are generosity and meditation.
Because self gratification is a inward act, me me me I I I mine mine mine wanting craving, to break that habit, because it is a habit so prevalent in affluent cultures, recognise that those who don't have also need and give up something precious to you to feed them. That very act will gratify in a way no amount of pudding will. In time that satisfaction will spread into all area of life and a general satisfaction becomes the norm.
Meditation, well it just works to still the mind. A tranquil mind is a satisfied mind. A satisfied mind is already gratified. ]
We have a habit to reach for something gratifying when we become aware of how miserable we are and we haven't learned how to not be miserable.
We like and look for the feeling we have when we indulge ourselves in pleasure.
I think the solution is to find a way to be satisfied or happy with things just how they are no matter what our circumstances. IOW to be independent, self dependent in a real sense.
I think some kind of spirituality is essential. I don't mean you have to believe in a god, though I know that works for some people, I mean you have to be open to change in a fundamental way.
Some tried and true things that counter sense gratification are generosity and meditation.
Because self gratification is a inward act, me me me I I I mine mine mine wanting craving, to break that habit, because it is a habit so prevalent in affluent cultures, recognise that those who don't have also need and give up something precious to you to feed them. That very act will gratify in a way no amount of pudding will. In time that satisfaction will spread into all area of life and a general satisfaction becomes the norm.
Meditation, well it just works to still the mind. A tranquil mind is a satisfied mind. A satisfied mind is already gratified.
]
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
For the longest time I thought nothing was wrong with me - but I sure did drink a lot. That said, it wasn't a problem for quite a while..... then it started to become a problem.
Once I started down the path of abstinence, I had determined that there was absolutely something wrong and it was obviously my drinking.
A little while later, it started to be come clear to me that one of the things I'd heard was actually true. Most importantly, it was true for ME - and I came to know it and understand it at a level I hadn't been able to up until that point. What I'm referring to is the notion that something actually was wrong with me, IS wrong with me, and my drinking was just a symptom of something much bigger, more powerful, and more life-threatening.
I came to this conclusion after a nummmmmber of months of sobriety. I could see that while I wasn't drinking, I was exhibiting the exact same type of behaviors in a whole lot of areas of my life. I was looking for relief, from what I didn't know yet (though I do now), in ice cream, in pizza, in working out, in going to AA meetings, in reading spiritual books, in mountain biking, in porn and masturbation, really - in just about every area of my life that I could experience a "this feels good" emotion.
Once I started down the path of abstinence, I had determined that there was absolutely something wrong and it was obviously my drinking.
A little while later, it started to be come clear to me that one of the things I'd heard was actually true. Most importantly, it was true for ME - and I came to know it and understand it at a level I hadn't been able to up until that point. What I'm referring to is the notion that something actually was wrong with me, IS wrong with me, and my drinking was just a symptom of something much bigger, more powerful, and more life-threatening.
I came to this conclusion after a nummmmmber of months of sobriety. I could see that while I wasn't drinking, I was exhibiting the exact same type of behaviors in a whole lot of areas of my life. I was looking for relief, from what I didn't know yet (though I do now), in ice cream, in pizza, in working out, in going to AA meetings, in reading spiritual books, in mountain biking, in porn and masturbation, really - in just about every area of my life that I could experience a "this feels good" emotion.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 188
I have to watch caffiene. I have drunk upwards of 12 cups a day in the past. I am allowing myself three real coffees a day with some tea and sugar, I don't know if I'll give that up in the long run. It seems to be ok and doesn't trigger anxiety as long as I drink lots of fruit juice in between.
I am eating a lot of junk and I do intend to cut that down, but I'm still in early recovery. I want to try a low carb diet soon to see if it brings the health success other people are reporting.
I am eating a lot of junk and I do intend to cut that down, but I'm still in early recovery. I want to try a low carb diet soon to see if it brings the health success other people are reporting.
Member
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,602
Originally Posted by DayTrader
For the longest time I thought nothing was wrong with me - but I sure did drink a lot. That said, it wasn't a problem for quite a while..... then it started to become a problem.
Once I started down the path of abstinence, I had determined that there was absolutely something wrong and it was obviously my drinking.
A little while later, it started to be come clear to me that one of the things I'd heard was actually true. Most importantly, it was true for ME - and I came to know it and understand it at a level I hadn't been able to up until that point. What I'm referring to is the notion that something actually was wrong with me, IS wrong with me, and my drinking was just a symptom of something much bigger, more powerful, and more life-threatening.
I came to this conclusion after a nummmmmber of months of sobriety. I could see that while I wasn't drinking, I was exhibiting the exact same type of behaviors in a whole lot of areas of my life. I was looking for relief, from what I didn't know yet (though I do now), in ice cream, in pizza, in working out, in going to AA meetings, in reading spiritual books, in mountain biking, in porn and masturbation, really - in just about every area of my life that I could experience a "this feels good" emotion.
Once I started down the path of abstinence, I had determined that there was absolutely something wrong and it was obviously my drinking.
A little while later, it started to be come clear to me that one of the things I'd heard was actually true. Most importantly, it was true for ME - and I came to know it and understand it at a level I hadn't been able to up until that point. What I'm referring to is the notion that something actually was wrong with me, IS wrong with me, and my drinking was just a symptom of something much bigger, more powerful, and more life-threatening.
I came to this conclusion after a nummmmmber of months of sobriety. I could see that while I wasn't drinking, I was exhibiting the exact same type of behaviors in a whole lot of areas of my life. I was looking for relief, from what I didn't know yet (though I do now), in ice cream, in pizza, in working out, in going to AA meetings, in reading spiritual books, in mountain biking, in porn and masturbation, really - in just about every area of my life that I could experience a "this feels good" emotion.
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