It's Not A Race?
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
It's Not A Race?
I wonder if this is true. Most experts agree that the alcoholic who is unable to stop drinking will inevitably reach a point from which there is no return - death or insanity. The existence of such a point in time is pretty much an absolute truth, but the prediction of it virtually impossible.
One's physical health can provide one possible prediction, for example in my case the physical deterioration caused the doctor to predict I had six months to live. I needed a drink after that news BTW.
But for a lot of alcoholics it is a complete unknown, apart from that strange certainty in the alcoholic mind that says "That won't happen to me."
So here are some guys I knew who looked like they had time.
Tim, an accountant of about forty years old. He was fine when I left him, within six hours his house burnt down and him with it.
Dave aka Hawkeye was having a party. He went to bed and was discovered dead the next morning. the party went all nigh while Dave died of smoke inhalation as his mattress smoldered.
Des was discharged from hospital after a heart attack. It wasn't safe for him to drink. One week later he turns up in the ward for wet brains, permanently gone beyond recall.
Will, one of the nicest young men you could wish to meet. Met him at an assembly where he told me he was desperate to get on with the steps but his sponsor told him "It wasn't a race" Two weeks later he was found hanging in a forest.
These and others have all died within days of me talking to them, and I had no idea they were in the last hours or days of their existence. I doubt they had any idea either.
Finding a solution to this problem may not be a race, say, against other competitors, but it sure looks like a race against the clock, with one serious handicap - no one knows what time they have to beat.
What do you think?
One's physical health can provide one possible prediction, for example in my case the physical deterioration caused the doctor to predict I had six months to live. I needed a drink after that news BTW.
But for a lot of alcoholics it is a complete unknown, apart from that strange certainty in the alcoholic mind that says "That won't happen to me."
So here are some guys I knew who looked like they had time.
Tim, an accountant of about forty years old. He was fine when I left him, within six hours his house burnt down and him with it.
Dave aka Hawkeye was having a party. He went to bed and was discovered dead the next morning. the party went all nigh while Dave died of smoke inhalation as his mattress smoldered.
Des was discharged from hospital after a heart attack. It wasn't safe for him to drink. One week later he turns up in the ward for wet brains, permanently gone beyond recall.
Will, one of the nicest young men you could wish to meet. Met him at an assembly where he told me he was desperate to get on with the steps but his sponsor told him "It wasn't a race" Two weeks later he was found hanging in a forest.
These and others have all died within days of me talking to them, and I had no idea they were in the last hours or days of their existence. I doubt they had any idea either.
Finding a solution to this problem may not be a race, say, against other competitors, but it sure looks like a race against the clock, with one serious handicap - no one knows what time they have to beat.
What do you think?
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
See, it's not bizarre stuff at all.
It's how this works and why I always say that you never know if you'll get another chance. Thinking you always will - even when you have pushed the limits EVERYONE has warned you about, as I did - will end up to be a fatal mistake for many.
Some how I finally knew I would not have another chance if I didn't quit, and permanently.
I've got plenty of stories to share like Gottalife did- and they always stun people who haven't thought about (don't want to accept, whatever) the progressive nature of our disease and the scope of what that means. Too tired to pipe in more but this is a really important conversation and a critical part of learning about the disease, and simply, what alcohol does to our bodies.
So my answer, Mike - I guess the only way to stop the clock or win our race is to stop drinking right now, or if we've quit never risk whether we'd have the privilege or possibility of quitting again. Then the clock just becomes however long i get to live sober!
It's how this works and why I always say that you never know if you'll get another chance. Thinking you always will - even when you have pushed the limits EVERYONE has warned you about, as I did - will end up to be a fatal mistake for many.
Some how I finally knew I would not have another chance if I didn't quit, and permanently.
I've got plenty of stories to share like Gottalife did- and they always stun people who haven't thought about (don't want to accept, whatever) the progressive nature of our disease and the scope of what that means. Too tired to pipe in more but this is a really important conversation and a critical part of learning about the disease, and simply, what alcohol does to our bodies.
So my answer, Mike - I guess the only way to stop the clock or win our race is to stop drinking right now, or if we've quit never risk whether we'd have the privilege or possibility of quitting again. Then the clock just becomes however long i get to live sober!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 598
I think all alcoholics know, even if they don’t admit it, that things can go permanently wrong at any stage. Just think of all the time most of us have driven a motor vehicle whilst drunk. The problem is that nobody will stop unless that final scare happens. For me it was withdrawal. I drank for 30 years without withdrawal. Then it happened. I knew I could not live like that. I stopped. All the hangovers and social embarassements before could not make me stop. Knowing and seeing the physical effects on my body had no effect. Withdrawal did it. I am grateful to withdrawal. Wish it happened sooner.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Essex
Posts: 411
There are things in AA I wish weren't bandied about in the way they can be. 'It's not a race' being one of them. It's why it's important to stick with the literature, the programme outlined in the Big Book, if someone tells you they are ready, then believe them, and honour that. It makes me question the nature of someone's alcoholism to be honest - I can't stay stopped without spiritual help, however many slogans someone offers me. It's that simple.
There are two other things; it's the nature of alcoholism I think, the denial that anything major, life-changing or life ending, can happen to us. Alcohol helped me feel invulnerable (even though it made me more vulnerable). There's also that one can become past caring, untreated alcoholism does that, it can take my will for life or finding goodness in it away, with or without picking up a drink.
There are two other things; it's the nature of alcoholism I think, the denial that anything major, life-changing or life ending, can happen to us. Alcohol helped me feel invulnerable (even though it made me more vulnerable). There's also that one can become past caring, untreated alcoholism does that, it can take my will for life or finding goodness in it away, with or without picking up a drink.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
I've not heard "it's a race" in AA meetings per se, or as a typical axiom....I'd just throw in here that there are as many types of alcoholism as there are alcoholics (def hear that in the rooms and I agree) yet we are all the same bottom line.
I heard someone talk about the progressive nature of the disease as a highway - the warning light in the car comes on, or the low gas notification, or you get hungry....you pull over. Or you should. Some of us do and some don't - get off the highway til we crash the car in a fatal wreck. Hopefully that isn't what it takes for any one person to get the message about our drinking.
I heard someone talk about the progressive nature of the disease as a highway - the warning light in the car comes on, or the low gas notification, or you get hungry....you pull over. Or you should. Some of us do and some don't - get off the highway til we crash the car in a fatal wreck. Hopefully that isn't what it takes for any one person to get the message about our drinking.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 405
Great post Gottalife.
I had managed to delude myself for many years, denial is not only a river in Egypt. Things like vehicular homicide and a horrible, painful death at a young age happened to other people, not me.
Towards the end I was buying a pint of liquor every morning and sipping it during the long drive to work. The AV was firmly in control of my life and the demons from the past had completely consumed me. Underneath it all there was a distant voice of sanity trying to get through to me: keep this up and your time is almost up.
I have no idea how I'm still alive but I managed to turn it around before the clock ran out.
I had managed to delude myself for many years, denial is not only a river in Egypt. Things like vehicular homicide and a horrible, painful death at a young age happened to other people, not me.
Towards the end I was buying a pint of liquor every morning and sipping it during the long drive to work. The AV was firmly in control of my life and the demons from the past had completely consumed me. Underneath it all there was a distant voice of sanity trying to get through to me: keep this up and your time is almost up.
I have no idea how I'm still alive but I managed to turn it around before the clock ran out.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
Posts: 5,095
I have been in and out of AA for about 15 years. I have tremendous respect for the program, and even more for many of the people I have met through the program.
The lessons I learned about how to simply live life, grow up, understand my emotions, be an adult were/are immeasurable. Without that guidance I don't think I ever would have 'woken up' to my personality challenges. AA is a huge part of the paradigm shift that I experienced.
I have heard the term 'its not a race' in AA. But I have seen too many examples of people sort of hanging in the balance while in the program. Half in, half out. Powerless, but unable to figure out a power source....be it a higher power or some other resource. Sort of working the program, kind of doing the steps. Whether by their choice, or slowed down by a sponsor who may simply do 'things' differently.
I am of the belief that the steps can be moved through quickly. They don't have to be done perfectly (except step 1). They can be done again and again over time as required. I believe, and it has been my experience, that the service part is where the magic lies. I have seen more people than I count agonize over the 4,5 and 6....only to relapse from the stress. And yeah, maybe not make it back.
I dunno. I feel if the person is ready, get her done.
The lessons I learned about how to simply live life, grow up, understand my emotions, be an adult were/are immeasurable. Without that guidance I don't think I ever would have 'woken up' to my personality challenges. AA is a huge part of the paradigm shift that I experienced.
I have heard the term 'its not a race' in AA. But I have seen too many examples of people sort of hanging in the balance while in the program. Half in, half out. Powerless, but unable to figure out a power source....be it a higher power or some other resource. Sort of working the program, kind of doing the steps. Whether by their choice, or slowed down by a sponsor who may simply do 'things' differently.
I am of the belief that the steps can be moved through quickly. They don't have to be done perfectly (except step 1). They can be done again and again over time as required. I believe, and it has been my experience, that the service part is where the magic lies. I have seen more people than I count agonize over the 4,5 and 6....only to relapse from the stress. And yeah, maybe not make it back.
I dunno. I feel if the person is ready, get her done.
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
Since this is posted in the general "Alcoholism" forum I'll just add that what Gottalife is talking about is true whether you subscribe to the AA method of recovery or not. Alcohol doesn't care about recovery methods, politics, gender, etc. It WILL bring you down eventually if abuse it for long enough. It might take you down slow and methodically or it might take you down with a spectacular bang, but it will take you down.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Thanks for all the responses guys. Of those in my examples only one was an AA member and he wasn't being given the AA solution, and one, Des, was a 12 step prospect. The others were people I had been in treatment with but who never went to AA.
My rehab buddies had relapsed like I did, yet their deaths, tragic and something that should have been a wake up call to me, were merely an excuse for more drinking. Not exactly a sane response.
Denial is an awful thing. You can only see what you can see. Yet when someone pops their head out of the fog, momentarily sees the truth and gets energized about finding a solution, someone often wants to put the brakes on when encouragement would be far more beneficial.
That would be my message to the newcomer. If you can see the problem and feel ready to do something about it, you go for it and don't let anyone stand in your way.
My rehab buddies had relapsed like I did, yet their deaths, tragic and something that should have been a wake up call to me, were merely an excuse for more drinking. Not exactly a sane response.
Denial is an awful thing. You can only see what you can see. Yet when someone pops their head out of the fog, momentarily sees the truth and gets energized about finding a solution, someone often wants to put the brakes on when encouragement would be far more beneficial.
That would be my message to the newcomer. If you can see the problem and feel ready to do something about it, you go for it and don't let anyone stand in your way.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Most experts agree that the alcoholic who is unable to stop drinking will inevitably reach a point from which there is no return - death or insanity.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Originally Posted by Gottalife 
I wonder if this is true. Most experts agree that the alcoholic who is unable to stop drinking will inevitably reach a point from which there is no return - death or insanity. The existence of such a point in time is pretty much an absolute truth, but the prediction of it virtually impossible.
One's physical health can provide one possible prediction, for example in my case the physical deterioration caused the doctor to predict I had six months to live. I needed a drink after that news BTW.
But for a lot of alcoholics it is a complete unknown, apart from that strange certainty in the alcoholic mind that says "That won't happen to me."
So here are some guys I knew who looked like they had time.
Tim, an accountant of about forty years old. He was fine when I left him, within six hours his house burnt down and him with it.
Dave aka Hawkeye was having a party. He went to bed and was discovered dead the next morning. the party went all nigh while Dave died of smoke inhalation as his mattress smoldered.
Des was discharged from hospital after a heart attack. It wasn't safe for him to drink. One week later he turns up in the ward for wet brains, permanently gone beyond recall.
Will, one of the nicest young men you could wish to meet. Met him at an assembly where he told me he was desperate to get on with the steps but his sponsor told him "It wasn't a race" Two weeks later he was found hanging in a forest.
These and others have all died within days of me talking to them, and I had no idea they were in the last hours or days of their existence. I doubt they had any idea either.
Finding a solution to this problem may not be a race, say, against other competitors, but it sure looks like a race against the clock, with one serious handicap - no one knows what time they have to beat.
What do you think?
One's physical health can provide one possible prediction, for example in my case the physical deterioration caused the doctor to predict I had six months to live. I needed a drink after that news BTW.
But for a lot of alcoholics it is a complete unknown, apart from that strange certainty in the alcoholic mind that says "That won't happen to me."
So here are some guys I knew who looked like they had time.
Tim, an accountant of about forty years old. He was fine when I left him, within six hours his house burnt down and him with it.
Dave aka Hawkeye was having a party. He went to bed and was discovered dead the next morning. the party went all nigh while Dave died of smoke inhalation as his mattress smoldered.
Des was discharged from hospital after a heart attack. It wasn't safe for him to drink. One week later he turns up in the ward for wet brains, permanently gone beyond recall.
Will, one of the nicest young men you could wish to meet. Met him at an assembly where he told me he was desperate to get on with the steps but his sponsor told him "It wasn't a race" Two weeks later he was found hanging in a forest.
These and others have all died within days of me talking to them, and I had no idea they were in the last hours or days of their existence. I doubt they had any idea either.
Finding a solution to this problem may not be a race, say, against other competitors, but it sure looks like a race against the clock, with one serious handicap - no one knows what time they have to beat.
What do you think?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Tn
Posts: 3,043
Thanks for sharing these personal experiences.
I haven't heard the "it's not a race" notion, but these stories certainly illustrate the reality that it is imperative that we do what it takes, in my case by working the 12 Steps, to stay sober each and every day.
In AA, we don't get to take a day, a week or a month off.
Also, recovery involves a stark dichotomy of results - namely, miracles on the one hand and tragedies on the other.
Nothing in between.
I haven't heard the "it's not a race" notion, but these stories certainly illustrate the reality that it is imperative that we do what it takes, in my case by working the 12 Steps, to stay sober each and every day.
In AA, we don't get to take a day, a week or a month off.
Also, recovery involves a stark dichotomy of results - namely, miracles on the one hand and tragedies on the other.
Nothing in between.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr
I disagree. As long as there is breath there is hope. I've seen people in their 50's and 60's stop drinking and embrace recovery. Saying it's "too late" is a cop out.
We have mental hospital wards full of wet brains. A year or two ago I used to pick up a guy who called himself Avril Alf and take him to a meeting. Avril Alf was good company, but the nursing staff told me he would never be released into the community because he was so brain damaged he could not cope. Very sad but that is the end stage of alcoholism.
There is a point of no return, nobody knows when theirs would be -today, tomorrow, next week, in fifty years, the idea is to act before it gets here.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 732
A few days before my heart stopped (cardiac arrest due to withdrawal) I had gone on a five mile beach walk and was enjoying feeling better because I was drinking less - I knew as we all do I was dicing with death but had no clue how close I was.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Glad this got bumped. I am glad I took another look - in the non-AA recovery group I lead, we have a gent who is well onto what seems to be a last leg. Sparing the details, the decision now is how - IF- we can further help him. He has to stop and get treatment if he wants to live. That's an experience based, non medical but objective observation on the depths he has gone. For me, it was cold turkey and AA plus the other stuff. He could go for that, or the detox/treatment/etc path.
But we can't make him. And the collective can only be of service to a certain length- always welcoming him if he wants to keep coming as he gets sober, yet (again, we are not an AA group) not supporting everyone else if we facilitate, he hijacks, etc the meetings with the same perilous scenario.
Thanks, Mike and all.
But we can't make him. And the collective can only be of service to a certain length- always welcoming him if he wants to keep coming as he gets sober, yet (again, we are not an AA group) not supporting everyone else if we facilitate, he hijacks, etc the meetings with the same perilous scenario.
Thanks, Mike and all.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 774
Originally Posted by Gottalife
Will, one of the nicest young men you could wish to meet. Met him at an assembly where he told me he was desperate to get on with the steps but his sponsor told him "It wasn't a race" Two weeks later he was found hanging in a forest.
These and others have all died within days of me talking to them, and I had no idea they were in the last hours or days of their existence. I doubt they had any idea either.
Finding a solution to this problem may not be a race, say, against other competitors, but it sure looks like a race against the clock, with one serious handicap - no one knows what time they have to beat.
What do you think?
These and others have all died within days of me talking to them, and I had no idea they were in the last hours or days of their existence. I doubt they had any idea either.
Finding a solution to this problem may not be a race, say, against other competitors, but it sure looks like a race against the clock, with one serious handicap - no one knows what time they have to beat.
What do you think?
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