BullDog777

yes...exactly. complete resentment is probably the most accurate word.

ScottFromWI

Maybe he's afraid too? Or maybe he thinks it's too late to do anything. Thing is BD - you have know way of knowing what goes on inside his head, and you are tearing yourself apart trying figure out/fix something you really have no control over whatsoever. And it's clearly affecting you in a major way - the pain and frustration is palpable in your posts.

One of my children is dead set against attempting to swallow any kind of pill. Even though though she knows it will help her and the doctor tells her the same thing. I'm not trying to equate your fathers illness with an ear infection of course, but i am trying to point out that there are lots and lots of reasons why people will do things ( or not ) that don't make any logical sense. We need to look no further than ourselves and all the selfish things we did with drinking alcohol to know that.

I guess my point is that there's usually 2 sides to these types of situations. And there is a very grey line between helping and enabling too. But i think one of the hardest things we have to learn is that there's a lot of things in life that are VERY uncomfortable to deal with - and that there are ways to still try and help without enabling. Not sure exactly what that might be - but it's pretty clear that you do love your father and would like to help him if you could. So maybe part of that might eventually be admitting/accepting that you might have to change your approach in some way.

BullDog777

That's fair...I just don't know what that is right now.

I've tried everything I can think of.

This wall I've put up isn't the first reaction, it's the last reaction.

I've tried to be there for him. I told him I'd get the best neurologist money could buy- if he would try.

I get he's scared. I know that. I feel bad for him.
I was scared of going to the hospital and to detox...but I did it anyway.
I was terrified that I was gonna get the "It's too late" news...but I hung in...and did it anyway.
Confronting one's mortality is humbling, and it also forces you to look at yourself in the mirror even if you can't stand the reflection....I did it anyway.

I do this for my family. You know what the failure rate is with this illness. It's almost 90%....I do it anyway.

The success rate with the surgery for my father is over 90% . He won't even entertain it.

To paraphrase the song "Hall of Fame" by Will.i.am.
" You could go the distance
You could run the mile
You could walk straight through hell with a smile...

I've done that.

An I would walk through hell with him...but I can't do this for him and I won't watch him give up

I think my anger is that he won't walk through hell for his family and I'm pissed about it.

I think keeping my distance is best. At least for now.

nez

I believe I get where you are coming from. In my attempt to see the situation from your side, I remembered my last days (months, years) in active alcoholism. In that scenario, I was your father and you were my loved ones. I kept turning my back on treatment that could possibly save my life and causing my loved ones more pain by doing so, but I was scared, hopeless, and selfish all rolled into one.

Looking back at that, my heart goes out to you and I have no magic words to offer, only a pair of ears, a shoulder, an open heart .

BullDog777

thank you for the kind words.

nez

You were obviously typing while I was putting together my reply. All I can say is "serenity prayer". Change what you can, and let go of outcomes.

ScottFromWI

Keeping your distance for a while is a perfectly acceptable option.

On the prior point - don't forget that he may have already "walked through hell" - in fact I think you mentioned that he did something of the sort for you over the years. It could be that he's afraid to do it again this time, or that he feels that he's too old and it won't matter anymore - or that he's too prideful to let others help, it could really be just about anything. Or it could even be that he's just in denial that it really is a problem - even though you can see it right in front of you he may literally not , just like i never saw my alcoholism destroying everything around me even though everyone else did.

But for your own sake re-read the bolded words above - re written below for emphasis

"My anger is is that he won't....." You could insert anything you want after "he won't" and it will be a problem only for you. Being angry about something you cannot control is of course something only you can change - and only the "being angry" part. As nez points out, sometimes the concept of the serenity prayer brings things back into focus.

RecklessEric

Bulldog, you seem to have already made your mind up. Yet the thread title suggests you are looking for advice.

Visiting my mother often drives me insane and I think it's because I see something in her that I'm afraid of becoming. But I still visit because I love her and want to be there for her.

I understand not wanting to put yourself in a situation that endangers your sobriety but surely part of getting better is being able to cope with uncomfortable scenarios without drinking/drugging.

Please don't view my post as criticism. I just wanted to express my thoughts on a matter you opened up.

Stayingsassy

Hey bulldog.

I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’ve seen family run the gamut with anticipatory grief. Avoidance, anger, overbearing obsession, chaotic emotion, you name it.

I know it hurts to see him. I just went through this.

There are neurological conditions that can’t be fixed. I know you know that.

Have you thought about why he won’t take the meds?
Do they have side effects he dislikes? He may not have discussed those with you, sometimes med side effects can be embarrassing or difficult.
Does he feel as though there’s no point? I could see myself refusing to take medication once I knew there was no hope for recovery from an illness. I would figure there wasn’t much point, especially if there are side effects.

My mom was driving me ******* in the last couple months before my dad died. I was avoiding her. She was avoiding me. She didn’t want to see me because she didn’t want my opinion. I still visited about once a week, but looking back with hindsight, I’d have moved in the second she told me he wasn’t able to walk. And let her get mad about it. So what...I’d just want the time with him. Even though he could barely hear me, and his once brilliant mind was spewing conspiracy theories, flights of fancy and total lack of logic. I’d have sat with him every day regardless. I screwed up. I do not forgive myself for that. My priorities did a 180 after he died.

You know I’m a tiger for protecting sobriety. In grief, just struggling with dark emotions, I have retreated completely. I enjoy my work and my daughters, but I have refused to interact with anyone else. It’s pretty severe, I’ve given in completely to utter introversion other than my work, which I have thrown myself into. I know it’s not healthy, but I’m protecting myself.

I get it. Just examine yourself closely. Make the right choice. The right choice is different for everyone, and grief manifests itself in ways that people cannot imagine. I see a son in emotional pain, feeling anger, but think about how that anger is directed.

Your dad needs love. If you can’t be there because it’s hurting too much? Maybe write him letters, by hand. Thank him for being the dad you needed. Your dad, if he is ill, has time on his hands. And written letters are a long lost art, an act of giving.

I couldn’t participate in planning my dad’s memorial. It’s saturday. I did very, very little, it made me incredibly nauseous to even think about the details. I tried to help for awhile, but my mom was fighting me on every detail so it just seemed like I couldn’t get anywhere with her, and I felt like vomiting every time I had to think of it (bricks in my stomach, just sick) so I gave up. I sent my daughter instead! My 22 year old daughter, who grandma would never give a hard time. My daughter stayed for awhile and helped her a ton.

Just giving examples of the way my sobriety manifests at times and how it’s resonating with your post, but the point is: Find ways to show your love, any way you can. Love is really the only thing that matters in life, especially at the end.

BullDog777

Fair points all the way around.

I will only accept this after I have exhausted every piece of information i can give him to help. An since he isn't listening to me anymore, I'm going straight to the only person that can penetrate that thick F54king skull of his. ..My mom.

Can't stand her, don't really like her...horribly abusive to me growing up, but i know she can make him listen to what info there is. That's all I want at this point.

I got several videos of the brain surgery my dad would need. Through the entire process and post surgical. If he says no, I want him to at least know what he's saying no to.

Life doesn't have to be this debilitating for him. I don't think he gets that. Maybe he does, but I'm going to try this one last time. I sent all the info to my mother and she said she would make sure he watched all of it. She wants him to get better too.

Thing is, this in not life threatening. Simple surgery can be life changing and he can get back to the things he loved to do. Other than the tremor, he's in perfect health. He's not even on any medication. Not bad for 80. My great Uncle lived to 99. He might still have a good stretch left.

I feel like if i don't do this, I'd be giving up completely on him. An Eric, you're right...I came into this thread saying "I feel guilty for doing this to -I'm simply walking away-to now ....lemme try one last thing. There's no quit in me and I got that from him. I just need to wake that back up.

An if he tells me to go F myself...well, so be it. At least I gave him all the information available.

BullDog777

I did it. He agreed to the surgery. I'm making his first consultation appointment Monday.

eyes99

zjw

Good points bd at first I read this and thought like dee then as I read more of your posts it made more sense to me and I could underrstand your side. I’m a real stick in the mud when it comes to seeing people in there final days or funerals there just memories I don’t care to have. I prefer to go say my peace and goodbyes when I can and leave it at that. Oh I get flack for this too but like you it’s like look you want me to stay sane and sober this is how I am leave me alone.

But sounds like you and your father have some similarities tho but good your working out your differences. Can’t control him just gotta control your reaction to him. He is your father won’t be around forever too. I’ve been known to put my crap aside and swallow myself for there benefit only as well. But again if your sobriety is at risk then YeH gotta be like iron as you said being healthy and sober I feel is far more important.

BullDog777

I'm gonna apologize in advance....Maybe it's me because I'm exhausted, but you're coming across to me a little preachy for me not to get annoyed...

It's this simple...he helps himself, he gets to see me. If he doesn't get help, he doesn't. My body, my life, my sobriety, right? All I can do is hope he finds peace with that.

I'm an equal part in this equation. I don't HAVE to accept jack s#it.
These are the terms we've agreed on.

exactly. you get it. I appreciate that.

Ok...the first consultation has been set in motion. It's a little bit of a wait, June...but it's set. I'm going to be traveling with him and helping him go through this, it's also forcing me to put my mommy issues aside.

Small price to pay.

His attitude is good...he's excited ...these videos that I had sent to him from the hospital were life changing. I don't think he ever expected to be able to improve.

He thought they were gonna do some 15th century lobotomy crap to him. It scared him, so he ran the other way...

...there's little worse than "contempt prior to investigation" is what I told him.

He was more angry that his GP and the one neuro that saw him didn't make this suggestion...I was there when they did and he all but ran them out of the room before they had a chance to go over it with him.

So much of this happened when I was in earlier sobriety, I don't think I was processing much. I'm glad we're on the right path now.

I'm cautiously optimistic ...guardedly optimistic....

I told him I'd move a mountain to help him, but I'd walk on a dime if he changed his mind. This is the way I keep my sanity about this. I'm keeping everything at arm's reach.

RecklessEric

Good stuff, BD.

Hope the surgery goes well for him.

August252015

Clicked on the thread to check on you BD and I am really glad to hear where y'all are now. My parents are aging and things aren't incredibly serious yet, but w my Dad we are preparing for what seems like early memory loss only and what the next 3-5 yrs could look like. Thankfully it's not a situation like your dad's and we've ruled out the devastating things like Alzheimers and Parkinson's (he's 74) but I can relate to the complicated web of feelings a lot of us have with parents.

Take care of you thru all this.

zjw

makes a lot of sense. The part about not processing things well. I got almost 8 years sober and well it takes me time to process things. most around me dont understand why a seemingly simple decision i gotta sit with it for a while till i decide. But for me its a big deal if i bite off more then i can chew or something i'm liable to be at risk to drink again so i gotta be careful.

at the end of the day the decisions we make we have to deal with we have to live with ourselves and we have to walk in our shoes no one else does. So regardless of what everyong else thinks we should or shouldnt do they dont have to dealw ith the choices day in and day out.

Aellyce

I wanted to respond on this thread much earlier but am glad to see the developments, BD. My parents were terrible with self care and even more severely neglected their health when they were old. Not even close to death old, but struggling with medical and psychiatric issues that could have been improved greatly with modern technology.

Our backgrounds might be different in that I have never been much of the helper kind of person who takes care of everyone or want to, but I really understand your initial aversion and avoidance because I had the same reaction to my parents' decline. I actually did avoid at least one of them completely until the end. I had lived in a different country from my parents since graduating from college and completely stopped visiting them for years - in part, because those years were my worst drinking times. My mom was very physically ill and depressed during her last years and I did not go to be with her even once, until the end. I handled this very differently with my dad (was also easier because I was sober then) but still greatly had to fight the current of my avoidance. I made it though and all the attention and time spent with him towards the end is something I will be forever grateful for. It provided not only some relief to him but also significant, lasting mental peace and closure for me. True, stable closure, which is pretty rare in relationships, I think. Extremely meaningful times. He still did not want medical care and even ran away from hospitals a few times. When he was finally hospitalized with a clearly terminal condition and had serious dementia and physically immobile and 100% dependent, then of course the doctors wanted to do all kinds of treatments that would have not made him self-sufficient on any level, just able to vegetatively survive. I made the decision for him not to have those treatments because I knew that would have been his will. That's also something I will never regret. Different situation from yours given that your father has a good chance to improve significantly with the procedure and it is great to hear he has agreed on it!

eyes99

eyes99