Random Moosings – Crones, kittens, chuckleheads & all other critters welcome!
Woe is Moo.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
Food is obviously very complicated and personal. Everyone has their own relationship and reactions physically and psychologically. I'm not sure what I will accomplish, if anything, but I will let you guys know. And I like hearing about your own experiences.
Hawk, I'm glad my horrific experience with oxalate eyes resulted in some good in this world!
O, I do pretty much cycle the same 4-5 healthy meals everyday, but I have yet to find the discipline to take choice out of the equation when it comes to my food treats.
Alleyce, the question is, do I need to cut out the treats I fixate on in order to even be able to enjoy other things. With most addictions, I think the answer is probably yes. But I still grapple.
Drops, the Netflix thing sounds like a healthy pastime versus an addiction, but I understand how it butts up against addiction when you start getting all bent up when you don't get it. Awareness and detachment! Ugh, so hard.
Hawk, I'm glad my horrific experience with oxalate eyes resulted in some good in this world!
O, I do pretty much cycle the same 4-5 healthy meals everyday, but I have yet to find the discipline to take choice out of the equation when it comes to my food treats.
Alleyce, the question is, do I need to cut out the treats I fixate on in order to even be able to enjoy other things. With most addictions, I think the answer is probably yes. But I still grapple.
Drops, the Netflix thing sounds like a healthy pastime versus an addiction, but I understand how it butts up against addiction when you start getting all bent up when you don't get it. Awareness and detachment! Ugh, so hard.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
Cow,
What makes you worry about your treats?
If I understand, its not the treats themselves but rather the focus on them in advance etc. In which case I wonder if you arent being a bit hard on yourself. If that is the definition of addiction, everyone I know is an addict to something -- excercise, crosswords, work, etc etc.
X
What makes you worry about your treats?
If I understand, its not the treats themselves but rather the focus on them in advance etc. In which case I wonder if you arent being a bit hard on yourself. If that is the definition of addiction, everyone I know is an addict to something -- excercise, crosswords, work, etc etc.
X
Woe is Moo.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
Drops, it is both the treat itself, but mostly it is the fixation on the treat.
My treats are pretty tame, but they still involve sugar and chocolate and decaf coffee which is all full of food chemicals that zap my energy/motivation and crash my blood sugar. I feel better if I don't eat that stuff. However, in the moment, it is very tasty and pleasurable and I get that dopamine hit.
But it is the fixation on the treat that is the bigger issue. I look forward to treat time over anything else. I spend an inordinate amount of time procuring my treats, being ritualistic during the consumption of the treat, and thinking about the next treat. Whatever else I am doing, in the "background" is the comforting/exciting knowledge of the next treat. I am sad when treat time is over, so I space a couple treats throughout the day, and go from treat to treat. I do not let anything else interfere. If I could sit in my chair all day long eating treats and watching TV, I would. If I am out doing something or with friends, I think, "this is okay, but mostly because I know there is a treat waiting at home!" The treat is a safe, private fix. I have tried many times to stop the treats and am unable to. This is, of course, all very similar to my behavior around alcohol.
It is just clear and obvious that I have a DEEPLY rooted fixation on food treats as a space of "safe pleasure" to the exclusion of what could be a more satisfying and broader existence. It has been this way since childhood. It makes perfect sense to me, given my history of sexual abuse, but I want to at least try to shift it.
I bolded that cuz the "safe pleasure" thought just ocurred to me and I think it is a big piece of the puzzle, and I need to explore that more.
My treats are pretty tame, but they still involve sugar and chocolate and decaf coffee which is all full of food chemicals that zap my energy/motivation and crash my blood sugar. I feel better if I don't eat that stuff. However, in the moment, it is very tasty and pleasurable and I get that dopamine hit.
But it is the fixation on the treat that is the bigger issue. I look forward to treat time over anything else. I spend an inordinate amount of time procuring my treats, being ritualistic during the consumption of the treat, and thinking about the next treat. Whatever else I am doing, in the "background" is the comforting/exciting knowledge of the next treat. I am sad when treat time is over, so I space a couple treats throughout the day, and go from treat to treat. I do not let anything else interfere. If I could sit in my chair all day long eating treats and watching TV, I would. If I am out doing something or with friends, I think, "this is okay, but mostly because I know there is a treat waiting at home!" The treat is a safe, private fix. I have tried many times to stop the treats and am unable to. This is, of course, all very similar to my behavior around alcohol.
It is just clear and obvious that I have a DEEPLY rooted fixation on food treats as a space of "safe pleasure" to the exclusion of what could be a more satisfying and broader existence. It has been this way since childhood. It makes perfect sense to me, given my history of sexual abuse, but I want to at least try to shift it.
I bolded that cuz the "safe pleasure" thought just ocurred to me and I think it is a big piece of the puzzle, and I need to explore that more.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Chester, UK
Posts: 684
Hi Cow,
I was very sorry to hear that you have been subject to sexual abuse. Do you think that may explain the "safe" part of your desire for "safe pleasure" because, of course very sadly, you would not have felt safe when experiencing this, and perhaps the "pleasure" part was because of your need for comfort, as represented by treats etc., during this abuse?
Whatever, it seems to have helped made you become a compassionate person!
I was very sorry to hear that you have been subject to sexual abuse. Do you think that may explain the "safe" part of your desire for "safe pleasure" because, of course very sadly, you would not have felt safe when experiencing this, and perhaps the "pleasure" part was because of your need for comfort, as represented by treats etc., during this abuse?
Whatever, it seems to have helped made you become a compassionate person!
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
Can you spread the treat times out to one day per week or some other longer interval? That's essentially what I did, I experimented with different "rules" along the way but the main thing was to make sure days I ate sugar were the exception to my routine and not the norm.
It was uncomfortable at first but with time the fixation naturally sort of dwindled down and I'm now able to eat sugar rarely and "intuitively". Yoga has played a part in changing the way I viewed sugar and probably food in general.
I didn't even start making any calculated dietary changes until I quit smoking which was almost 8 months in.. So while I totally understand the frustration of cross addictions and the whack a mole phenomenon, I do think as others have said the priority of remaining sober needs to precede everything else.
Anyway, it’s great to see you posting again Cow! I hope you will embrace the less is more approach and feel it’s ok early on to have very lenient requirements for yourself. Progress in early sobriety is like watching a plant or child or small animal grow.. the everyday changes are barely noticeable but at some point you'll look back and be amazed by all the growth in such a short amount of time.
It was uncomfortable at first but with time the fixation naturally sort of dwindled down and I'm now able to eat sugar rarely and "intuitively". Yoga has played a part in changing the way I viewed sugar and probably food in general.
I didn't even start making any calculated dietary changes until I quit smoking which was almost 8 months in.. So while I totally understand the frustration of cross addictions and the whack a mole phenomenon, I do think as others have said the priority of remaining sober needs to precede everything else.
Anyway, it’s great to see you posting again Cow! I hope you will embrace the less is more approach and feel it’s ok early on to have very lenient requirements for yourself. Progress in early sobriety is like watching a plant or child or small animal grow.. the everyday changes are barely noticeable but at some point you'll look back and be amazed by all the growth in such a short amount of time.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
Hello my bovine friend,
I have read a lot of stuff about breaking habits and the science says we cant really break them, the best we can do is replace something else. We have a cue, we need to do something.
For me, I need to have some "treat" to get through the slog. I think we all do on some level. I used to have a lot of treats, now I am down to netflix. I do think its a little unhealthy how important it is, but I have decided that a no treat world is not in the cards.
I have found that this keto diet has effectively eliminated sugar, carbs and diet soda, which having kicked drink, smokes and the odd drug, leaves me with netflix.
I did find that totally "quiting" carbs and sugar was easier than moderating. I think I have beome a good quiter -- but dont touch my netflix...
I have read a lot of stuff about breaking habits and the science says we cant really break them, the best we can do is replace something else. We have a cue, we need to do something.
For me, I need to have some "treat" to get through the slog. I think we all do on some level. I used to have a lot of treats, now I am down to netflix. I do think its a little unhealthy how important it is, but I have decided that a no treat world is not in the cards.
I have found that this keto diet has effectively eliminated sugar, carbs and diet soda, which having kicked drink, smokes and the odd drug, leaves me with netflix.
I did find that totally "quiting" carbs and sugar was easier than moderating. I think I have beome a good quiter -- but dont touch my netflix...
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Yeah, my experience is that I need to replace one obsession with another. I like your way of expressing this as habits Drops, but it feels like more than that. To rid myself of obsessing over food, I obsess over deprivation and weight loss, which is really still obsessing over food. Ridding myself of alcohol, I am fixated on not drinking, which is really still obsessing over alcohol? And then - sometimes - I become immured in the obsession itself.
For me, today, that's ok. I'm not drinking, after all. But I can get why it would feel troubling, Cow. I think maybe my first inclination about this was wrong. Maybe instead of placing more restrictions on yourself, it would be better to give yourself permission to enjoy the anticipation. Maybe simply and fully feel all the "feels" before, after and after the treat devoid of judgment or guilt. Immersion in all of that might serve to tamp down the intensity? I don't know how to express what I'm trying to say - what is the term for aversion therapy in the reverse?
On a gut level, I am feeling what you are describing as shame. There is no shame in enjoying treats, dear Cow. xo
For me, today, that's ok. I'm not drinking, after all. But I can get why it would feel troubling, Cow. I think maybe my first inclination about this was wrong. Maybe instead of placing more restrictions on yourself, it would be better to give yourself permission to enjoy the anticipation. Maybe simply and fully feel all the "feels" before, after and after the treat devoid of judgment or guilt. Immersion in all of that might serve to tamp down the intensity? I don't know how to express what I'm trying to say - what is the term for aversion therapy in the reverse?
On a gut level, I am feeling what you are describing as shame. There is no shame in enjoying treats, dear Cow. xo
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
what you are describing in your last paragraph is what works for me. if i understand correctly.
no need to obsess since i accept that i will have my usual treat at or around the usual time. the certainty of knowing i will have it as just part of my normal day means i have to give no thought or struggle-energy to it.
oddly, every once in a while i shrug and just don’t feel like having it. rarely, but it does happen.
no need to obsess since i accept that i will have my usual treat at or around the usual time. the certainty of knowing i will have it as just part of my normal day means i have to give no thought or struggle-energy to it.
oddly, every once in a while i shrug and just don’t feel like having it. rarely, but it does happen.
Pastafarian
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 122
Hello Cow & Cow Friends!
Glad to see this salon is back and active. Interesting as ever.
Cow - glad to see you made another orbit.
You beat so many things. I recall in particular the long withdraw from benzos. The unbearable symptoms of withdrawal. The back sliding. And of course the eventual victory.
If you want to beat the treat obsession, I have confidence you will. I look forward to following your progress on this issue.
Glad to see this salon is back and active. Interesting as ever.
Cow - glad to see you made another orbit.
You beat so many things. I recall in particular the long withdraw from benzos. The unbearable symptoms of withdrawal. The back sliding. And of course the eventual victory.
If you want to beat the treat obsession, I have confidence you will. I look forward to following your progress on this issue.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,308
Originally Posted by Cow 
How on earth do you remember such a thing, Bunny? I barely remember. Not a celebrator of birthdays, but it's nice to still be revolving around the sun and all.
How are you chuckleheads going?
How are you chuckleheads going?
hi Cow, just a kitty meowing here on a restless night .....glad to see some old friends here!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
MOOOO...
Just to echo my sentiments over in O land, I love thanksgiving and I wanted to let all past and present visitors to the pasture how important you are to me. I give thanks for all of you this thanksgiving - my favorite holiday of the year.
Just to echo my sentiments over in O land, I love thanksgiving and I wanted to let all past and present visitors to the pasture how important you are to me. I give thanks for all of you this thanksgiving - my favorite holiday of the year.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,308
Originally Posted by Cow
Little Kittycat!!! 
How are you going?
How are you going?
how are you doing, are you staying sane despite the holiday madness?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
Kitty,
Sorry to hear you are sufferring. I had some severe anxiety and it is a terrible feeling. I never had a panic attack, but it sounds and looks tough.
Glad you are getting through it all with a clear head. I am at the point where drinking really does not come up in my head as a solution too often, although crazy enough it still seems fun in a kind of way. Weird as we all know it is NOT FUN, for us.
Hang in there - we got your back.
Sorry to hear you are sufferring. I had some severe anxiety and it is a terrible feeling. I never had a panic attack, but it sounds and looks tough.
Glad you are getting through it all with a clear head. I am at the point where drinking really does not come up in my head as a solution too often, although crazy enough it still seems fun in a kind of way. Weird as we all know it is NOT FUN, for us.
Hang in there - we got your back.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
Hey all, just wanted to share what I've been learning about my relationship cross addiction. The dark and ugly, almost humorous core of this is my over-texting (a nasty habit rampant on my moms side of the family which I've loathed deeply and even severed ties over but can't seem to escape myself). I'll text him something dripping in anxiety, naturally he'll withdraw or eventually ignore it, the more he withdraws the more I just escalate.
The situation has really seemed hopeless because it seemed the only way to resolve it was with no contact. But then it just lies dormant until the next contact. And moving on to someone new will accomplish nothing if the problem is actually within myself.
Soo my therapist was explaining how she (smart and most useful way of explaining things) will simply "walk away" from a conflict and distract herself with something else for at least 20-25 mins until her mind/body is no longer in fight or flight mode. That's when it actually clicked that I could in fact do what I've done with my other vices, except the walking away doesn't have to be permanent, I just can't text or communicate while in that irrational state of mind. Yoga helps in a broader way but I need tools that can be accessed at any time. I imagine with more time the process might start to feel more natural and won't require as much conscious effort. I'm not sure if something similar could be achieved with intuitive eating, but I imagine it could be.
Sorry to hear about what you're going through kittycat. I understand how crippling anxiety and relationship issues can be but it sounds like you're handling it in a healthy way.
The situation has really seemed hopeless because it seemed the only way to resolve it was with no contact. But then it just lies dormant until the next contact. And moving on to someone new will accomplish nothing if the problem is actually within myself.
Soo my therapist was explaining how she (smart and most useful way of explaining things) will simply "walk away" from a conflict and distract herself with something else for at least 20-25 mins until her mind/body is no longer in fight or flight mode. That's when it actually clicked that I could in fact do what I've done with my other vices, except the walking away doesn't have to be permanent, I just can't text or communicate while in that irrational state of mind. Yoga helps in a broader way but I need tools that can be accessed at any time. I imagine with more time the process might start to feel more natural and won't require as much conscious effort. I'm not sure if something similar could be achieved with intuitive eating, but I imagine it could be.
Sorry to hear about what you're going through kittycat. I understand how crippling anxiety and relationship issues can be but it sounds like you're handling it in a healthy way.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Originally Posted by Cow
Hello Lambchops, how are you all going?
I hope good things for this 500. I hope O finds a way. And we all make it through our various grievings. And our ventures are successful. And "the meaning of life" becomes "the meaning is life" and we can all find some satisfaction inherent within. And, hell, why not, we all lose a couple pounds!
It's a tall order, but doable, no? I will start us off with something not too shabby. As of today, I am a full week free of any benzos. What a journey it has been. I still have a lot of things left to tackle, but this proves I can do hard things.
I hope good things for this 500. I hope O finds a way. And we all make it through our various grievings. And our ventures are successful. And "the meaning of life" becomes "the meaning is life" and we can all find some satisfaction inherent within. And, hell, why not, we all lose a couple pounds!
It's a tall order, but doable, no? I will start us off with something not too shabby. As of today, I am a full week free of any benzos. What a journey it has been. I still have a lot of things left to tackle, but this proves I can do hard things.
I'm feeling superstitious and greedy now.
Imagine what might happen if you started a new thread in 2020?
Happy New Year, Dear Bovine Friend of Mine
Woe is Moo.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
Glad you're doing well, O. I might start another thread. I'm not sure I have much to say. Although I am beginning a study of Stoicism. Here is my New Year's cartoon, in case y'all need a laugh...
Teddy: I want to make some New Year's resolutions, Cow, but I don’t want to aim too high.
Cow: No worry, assclown, only time you ever aim high is when using my toilet.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Thanks, luv.
Well... maybe you could just make some wishes and let us blow out the candles?
I imagine if you looked around under the bed you might find some dust bunnies to mull over.
Or stoicism. There's that. A fine topic for a lot such as ours. I think that's a very fine topic for chewing our cuds over out in the pasture. You could recline under the tree and toss forth a perplexing yet wise sally from time to time if having "much to say" is too much of a stretch.
Also, your joke is lame but thanks so much for the effort. I'm sure some hapless reader with a lowbrow sense of humor will appreciate it.
Well... maybe you could just make some wishes and let us blow out the candles?
I imagine if you looked around under the bed you might find some dust bunnies to mull over.
Or stoicism. There's that. A fine topic for a lot such as ours. I think that's a very fine topic for chewing our cuds over out in the pasture. You could recline under the tree and toss forth a perplexing yet wise sally from time to time if having "much to say" is too much of a stretch.
Also, your joke is lame but thanks so much for the effort. I'm sure some hapless reader with a lowbrow sense of humor will appreciate it.
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