DriGuy

I've been processing this and trying to decide if I agree or not. An institution or program may not stop an alcoholic from drinking, and I've always felt that the motivation should come from within. But I'm not so sure that "family repercussions or loss of [ ] can't work."

Granted, these motivators influence whether a person wants to drink or not. I think a case can be made for that. But are these possibly strong enough in and of themselves to make an alcoholic quit? I'm not sure that they are not. But this would require proving a negative, which is usually considered logically impossible.

To turn this into a positive, which CAN be logically proven, we would have prove family repercussions are enough, but to do that we would have to understand what is going on in the alcoholics head, and there is the rub. It's a big part of the reason none of us are capable of imparting the desire, confidence, or strength to a failing newbie. We can impart knowledge with ease; Imparting attitudes or such nebulous qualities, not so much.

At any rate, this thread is making me think. Where this thinking is taking me, if it takes me any place at all, I don't know.

JeffreyAK

I think only an individual is responsible for him/herself, and just like no one pours drinks down our throats, no one but us can choose not to drink. But our environments have a huge impact, and sometimes finding the right kind of support makes all the difference between summoning the will to stop drinking, and drinking ourselves to death. If it was all just about individual will, none of us would need support or support groups. That's why I think it's so important for there to be options for that support - AA, Smart, SOS, Lifering, WFS, Refuge, RR, Celebrate, online support forums like this one, all the different inpatient and outpatient treatment options, counseling. Sometimes just one random individual can make that difference, too.

WaterOx

Maybe it's just me, but I feel there's a hidden question within the question:

"are many alcoholics beyond ((MY)) help"

If that's the case, I will answer a resounding "yes".

I don't know why I interjected that except that maybe it goes beyond the topic of saving another and into the topic of saving myself. But maybe they are two different topics?

sortofhomecomin

I don't know, but I do know that I drank through and beyond the 'sick and tired of being sick and tired' phase yet am happily booze free since 29/09/2018. In early sobriety, I listened to a fit and healthy looking middle aged man chairing an AA meeting who said that before he got sober he had been diagnosed with liver disease and told that if he kept drinking he had months to live.

DriGuy

That's a reasonable point to bring up. When I posed the question, I wasn't consciously hiding another question. I already knew no single person could be the guru with the solution for everyone.

As the original question stands, my answer remains the same as when I started: "I don't know." As the thread progressed, I started drifting away wondering more about what other things could be done.

Dee said, "I personally don't think anyone who can get it together enough to post here is beyond help and I always try to respond to folks keeping that in mind," and I like that attitude. It's a reasonable assumption from which to approach the sufferer. At a minimum, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. I don't think anyone questions that.

WaterOx

To be clear, I was speaking mostly for myself. I wasn't suggesting you had any hidden agenda in your question.

I brought it up only because I find myself deliberately backing away from some people if only because I just know I can't handle it. I have a problem, too....know what I mean?

If I go down, I can't help anyone....put your own safety mask on first, etc etc.

DriGuy

I'm narcissistic enough to believe everyone is always talking about me, so my first reaction was, "Yee Gods! I've been found out." Then I read the rest and realized you were talking about you. Then I started thinking about it and realized I didn't unconsciously have a hidden agenda to begin with, and that I carry a ready supply of guilt around with me so I can confess to sins that I don't even commit. Not that I don't already have enough things that I'm actually guilty of, but I don't need to make up more. But that's another thread (which I don't intend to start).

ScottFromWI

As an anxiety sufferer I know that feeling well. One of the tools in my anxiety "toolbox" is to take active steps to stop thinking about things that have no clear outcome or purpose. In many cases the thinking itself causes more anxiety. I'm not suggesting that all discussions are bad, but some times it's just our "monkey brain" wanting us to keep jumping through mental hoops that is the problem in the firs place!

The concept of meditation is pretty much that in a nutshell...the attempt to focus on simple things like breathing, music, etc to get all that other noise on the back burner. AKA - rather than trying to STOP doing something, do something else that takes the place of the destructive/distracting behavior and thoughts.

Sam31p

I think in my case I might be beyond hope, although I hope not.

Family deaths, MH problems, Asperger's and so on.

I can't erase the knowledge that alcohol does work at temporarily removing the associated symptoms of the health problems.

What it comes down to is on 1 side, society isn't that widely accepting and understanding. I shake because of nervousness that's down to MH problems. There's over 100 times people have made comments about this (normally asking if I have been on drugs) or laughing at my symptoms. Which makes me feel even worse.

On the other side, with the right help and support off the NHS, I would be able to live a better quality of life yet there has never been any support off them because they play it all down. They say my symptoms are "harmless" and that I must live with them. How can they be "harmless" when someone is mistaking me to be high on drugs because of the shaking?

I'm at a point where I consider, what do I have to live for? My family are dead. Don't have friends. No NHS support. Single. Vitally I cannot recover and have a relatively normal life without NHS support, which I'm never given.

The symptoms have such a huge impact on my life, I see no hope or future without the support. Without that support and with knowing alcohol reduces the symptoms, I find it tricky to recover

Dee74

Hi Sam

I'm not in the UK so I can;t comment about the NHS except to say don't give up.

I knew a guy here who waited years for counselling help from NHS - he finally got it and it helped.

Even in Australia it took the best part of 5 years for me to get the help I needed from the public system.

You're worth the effort of waiting - we all are.

there's also other supports like this place and meeting based groups like AA SMART recovery, lifering.

they have online versions too.

I shake a lot too - cerebral palsy.

A lot of people used to laugh and ask me the same questions too...but I can't remember the last time anyone did that.

Maybe society is changing,...or I am - and I just don't care what some jackass says or thinks anymore?

D

Guener

Sam, I also read your other post, and it makes me upset to hear accounts of people who either fall through the cracks of medical health care (as happens a lot in the U.S.) or as in your instance are being ignored.

Is there somebody on your town council who might advocate on your behalf to the NHS that might be able to help precipitate better care for you? I know it is an enormous bureaucracy to try to take on, but it would be perhaps worth the effort if only for your piece of mind. It seems to me that some medication for your mental health and for the tremors/shaking is so obvious, it astounds me to read how you are treated.

Aside from that, how important is it to you to quit? When I read that you go to the pub for three pints in a day, is that all you are doing and/or does it go beyond your ability to stop? You have said that you have self-harmed in the past, and if alcohol has *anything* to do with that, you have your answer straight away. If you are here, that's a good indicator that the alcohol concerns you.

Your situation sounds complex and very hard to address unless you are able to make a determination of how your life can be with your symptoms, with the will to fight to receive care for MH and for alcohol as needed by you to live a life as best as you can.

Here you will receive unqualified support for your dignity and to stop drinking, if that is what you want to do.

Sam31p

There's been 10 years for them to intervene. The worst bit is I know what would help me yet when I mention it to the NHS, they play it down and say I'm being silly.

Sorry to hear you went through that too with people.

I reckon circumstances play a part in how to accept it. In society day to day there's perhaps 80% who would say nothing and mind there own business. 20% that would be up for talking to people but the figure is lower who would accept me for me.

If I had friends or family and wasn't isolated, it wouldn't bother me as much. Just as a single 32 year old, progress needs to happen. Services wont help and I just cant do it on my own.

The hard part is the incentive.... I want to give up, but if I did, what would that mean? More pain, more suffering, more upset about people making fun of symptoms. More "why are you so nervous?" comments and sustained isolation.

I stop for 2 weeks and all I see in that time is some kids laughing at me, failed conversations with brain fog and then self harm.

I drink multiple times across 2 weeks and I have good conversation with some people, maybe even get lucky and flirt with a woman.

I did have CBT but all that consisted of was him questioning why I don't make eye contact, telling me the symptoms are "harmless" and saying the services are cut

Sam31p

I'll post over in my thread as I don't want to derail this thread with all my stuff