JaylaaKent

I am currently almost 4 years sober. I met and made great friends with a lady last year who was new to AA September 2017. When I met her she had told the women in the group that she had 30% liver function, and was told by her DR she was a candidate for a liver transplant.
Our friendship blossomed quickly: we were working on steps together, doing BB studies, meetings, dinners, it was great. In December 2017 she decided to start dating a guy who was a chronic relapser in our group, and that didn't work out. Her sponsor and I tried to warn her about not dating before a year sober, or at least pick someone who was not a "chronic relapser". Shortly after - around February 2018- she decided to start "dating" through a dating app, and said she needed to "drink" while out on dates and didn't think she was an "alcoholic" because she would have a couple of drinks and be just fine. She of course quit going to meetings, quite calling her sponsor. This was really hard on me, I was very concerned for her. During this time she was constantly "bitching" about her job of 15 years, how everyone was abusive, she was miserable, etc. I spent a month doing resumes and applying for jobs for her online (trying to help co-dependent I know). She landed a new job, but she is yet again miserable with her job. I have to hear about it EVERY day. She started dating a new guy and is quite busy with him, so little time for me, except to call and complain about job, boyfriend, family, etc. I finally confronted her about it last week and expressed that she had changed, and we didn't really have much in common. I told her I feel she just calls me to complain and is always busy with work or boyfriend. She of course said "Isn't that what friends are for to complain to? I'm sorry you feel that way." I was very annoyed, and then felt guilty for speaking my truth. Does anyone have any insight? Should I cut her off entirely??? I want the hand of AA to always be there, but every time I see her call I cringe, and I have anxiety when we are supposed to meet for lunch and I can't wait to "escape".
Thanks in advance.

suki44883

You cannot help someone who doesn't want help. She wants to drink and has the right, as an adult, to do so. It sounds to me like she is just using you. If contact with her is causing you anxiety, then the obvious solution would be to have no further contact.

You told her how you felt, yet she still calls and complains. If you want it to stop, you are going to have to be the one to make it stop.

AAPJ

You are not the only hand in AA. Not even close. I have heard in more than one AA meeting that no one person is too important. It's a we thing. Collectively we can do together what we can't do individually.

If this relationship has become toxic for you it may be best to step away. Another AA member will be there for her if needed.

Ken33xx

I had a similar situation in AA with a fellow I would have coffee with before meetings and on holidays. He wasn't drinking but constantly complained. Finally after a few years he decided to move to another city and start over. Great I thought and I wished him luck.

Less than six weeks later he decided the move was a mistake and returned. He wanted to pick up where we left off with me meeting him for coffee. However, I didn't feel showing up an hour before an AA meeting. This is when things got weird.

Instead of saying, "whatever" and moving on he got offended. He would bad mouth me in a roundabout way during his shares as someone who couldn't be trusted but I said nothing. It wasn't long before he latched on to others who too got annoyed with his obsessive behavior. Eventually he left the area again and hasn't returned.

Looking back I don't think he was an alcoholic. The rooms of AA gave the social life he was looking for. He was a damaged individual who had once attempted suicide years ago. He had also been seeing a shrink for years.

Another AA fellow I ended up working with. He was a local AA guru and by this I mean a member with a lot of time who said all the right things in meetings. He appeared to be working a solid program and at one point was considering him as a sponsor.

Unfortunately, he couldn't get along with others in the work place. When he learned that I was working he was overjoyed. Now he had someone to chat with. Unfortunately, I have a lot on my mind especially at work and I found it annoying he zeroed in on me. This wasn't the AA fellowship and I wasn't going to be someone social buffer. If he has a hard time socializing outside the confines of the AA that's on him.

In any event the two situation I mention above taught I need to set up boundaries in AA. Yes, it is important for the hand of AA to be available but I can't be drawn into drama. My plate is full and I just don't have the time or energy to deal with emotional vampires be they alcoholic or not.

August252015

I would have to let that person go. Prayers and wishes for her to make better choices - from a distance.

fini

Jaylaa,
i have a couple of "friends" who mostly use me as a sounding board; they are neither sponsees in the traditional sense nor friends in the way i would usually use that term. they are fairly newly sober, though not brand-new.
they will share with me about areas of challenges, and i will listen, give feedback when asked, be supportive, make suggestions.
i hope i am helpful, and figure i am, as they keep chatting with me off and on.
if your "friend" is "using" you in this way, i would see it as very differently from someone just complaining with no intention to change, figure things out, or use you as anything other than a dumping ground for whines and complaints.
if the latter is the case (and it sounds lie it is), i would distance myself.

DriGuy

It's hard to watch someone who has previously seemed to be doing well go back out. I've been there. It's not pleasing. We want to save them, speak some insight that will change them or bring them around. We are not the powerful. We don't have that control. It's best to accept that.

JaylaaKent

Thank you all for input/insight. I went to visit her today and take her a couple of items she left at my house a while back (jacket, book). We had a normal chat. I didn't bring up anything, since I had already spoken my truth. She looks terrible - face is bloated, she's gained about 30lbs. She said she is drinking more than she would like sometimes, but otherwise "controlling" it. I didn't bring up AA or anything about drinking or meetings. Overall it was a neutral visit - no complaining on her part. I still think the friendship is not the same, but I have to put my sobriety first. It's just hard to watch when the solution is so easy. Sad.

Eddiebuckle

I had a friend in the program who followed a very similar trajectory, with the exception that he is still going to meetings occasionally. It's not a pleasant experience, and I've found that I need to keep space between us. I am still friendly with him, but it seems to me that acting like nothing has changed is inconsistent with the principle of rigorous honesty.

You are partially quoting the responsibility pledge. It doesn't stop at "reaches out," it says "reaches out for help." Your friend isn't looking for help, she is looking for a shoulder to cry on, to absolve her from any culpability for her choices. It's a hard lesson to realize that although we never actively chose to have bad outcomes, our choices were what led to them. Often these were circumstance when we chose to serve our wants rather than our needs.

She will remain helpless until she is willing to be willing, and there's not a whole lot you can do to make that happen.

Ken33xx

Good for you. You kept things neutral. No bad blood or animosity. Well done.

DayTrader

I definitely wouldn't cut her out of my life nor would I recommend it, assuming you're spiritually fit enough to proceed with a relationship with her.

I try not to go into too many AA-specific tenants outside of the 12-step support forum but a couple parts of the AA book came to mind:

We feel that elimination of our drinking is but a beginning. A much more important demonstration of our principles lies before us in our respective homes, occupations and affairs.

and

Our very lives, as ex-problem drinkers, depend upon our constant thought of others and how we may help meet their needs.

Your own personal reflection on the program, and probably some extra attention to steps 1 through 6 would probably lead to a pretty clear answer on how best to proceed.

MindfulMan

Cringing, crying and anxiety are not good for your sobriety. Or your psyche, for that matter.

I agree with August that you should let her go. Maybe not forever though, she may decide that she needs to stop again. The most compassionate thing might be to be honest and say "You look like crap. You're bloated. You're not happy. And you're drinking. You're a great friend when you're sober. When you're drinking, it feels like I can only get so close."

Dunno, I'm not an AA person, but I have spent some time in the rooms. There was a very wise old woman, a tough lesbian with 30+ years sobriety. If I'd stayed in AA I'd have asked her to be my sponsor, and I could totally see her saying something like that, with tough love and compassion though. There's the concept of "compassionate discipline" that's used with raising kids, the compassionate thing to do is, with love, give them what they need, not what they say they want.

NYCDoglvr

I can't be around an active alcoholic, it's too painful and puts my sobriety at risk. We're also powerless over people, places and things.

August252015

I'll add that this week, when I was trying to say "pleaser" and "fixer" to my husband- describing myself - I created a new word, "plixer." Fits me to a tee.

We happened to be discussing my sponsor. It's time for our relationship to rest on the good friends side - and part of that is because of (my assessment, important note) of where she is. I don't know her whole perspective, never can, but I know that I need someone I can turn to. She isn't being helpful to me right now, as a sponsor - and I need that.

Flip that around to how can I be helpful to others? On the "dire side" of AA are those who simply cannot be helped and don't make it to the sober side. Some of them might be the chronic relapsers, or the person like your friend in whatever her own journey is. I find that these folks are most often the ones I try to serve in meetings. Listening and sharing what I can of my one-white-chip journey (so far, and with commitment as I know I do not have a relapse and recovery in me) in a way it could be useful.

I also think of a meeting topic recently - what to do about a relapsing sponsee? This person is a friend, not a sponsee, for you - however I think the ultimate consensus reached in our meeting was that we cannot chase people or get someone to come back who doesn't want to, and applies for you here.

Keep going in protecting and growing your own sobriety - and that neutrality with your friend is a good approach to keep up, IME and IMO. I don't judge my friend I see buying wine at the grocery now, instead of being in my home group meetings, nor do I offer to "get her back to the group," .....

PhoenixJ

I believe very strongly in not abandoning friends who are struggling- BUT (and it is a hard one for me) boundaries have to be in place. This friend has lost most of their supports, and was using me (their words too) to feel better- so my support of very destructive, unsafe and damaging behaviour was enabling this person to develop a relationship of dependency, which I know can turn nasty.

Like you I was avoiding them, but did meet them for coffee and said so long as they are trying and do no harm to others (which is nigh on impossible for them) I would support them.

So far there has been silence, but it was right for me- because I was getting very stressed.
Support to you.