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Alcoholic or problem drinker? Hi, everybody. This is my first post here, but I’ve been reading alot since few years ago. I’ll give you some info about a man, and I need your opinions about his drinking pattern...well, actually, more that a pattern already. I know alot about alcoholism, about moderate consumption wich looks barely impossible/abstinence, but I just can’t think clearly. So, this man, in his forties, started to drink heavily after an emotional problem, than he lost his job and his wife (due to drinking) so he had nothing to go back to. He had a short period of heavy drinking in his 20, also in stressful period ehen he was drinking to black out, but this passed in a few months when problems cleared. So, 18 months ago he was hospitalised for the first time and he added about 15 admission, last one being 6 months ago. He used to binge drink, on his own, started to drink and couldn’t stop on his own, always ending in the hospital after one/2 weeks of being intoxicated. He could then resist for 1 week to 3 months, but he as soon as he started...in a few weeks he was back in hospital again, after doing many stupid things and eventually being unconscious. he went into rehab, came back, managed to get a new job wich he loves, his personal life it’s good...but confessed that 2 months ago he started drinking again, “moderately” of course, without finishing a bottle ever, only wine and beer, from time to time, without getting drunk and bla bla. The truth is he never resisted 2 months without getting intoxicated. he never had withdrawal symptoms is this alcoholism or problem drinking? Do you thing he’ll eve r be able to moderate? I know the theory, the statistics, the threads around here. I think I just need a more personalized answer. thank you. |
is there a diff between an alcholic an da problem drinker?. I mean maybe todays problem drinker is just tommorrows alcoholic. Alcoholism is progressive. I mean I guess I myself could go out binge like crazy and get ahold of myself and decide i'm simply a problem drinker as my way of sugar coating what really lurks within me. I dunno. ONly the drinker can figure this out I guess. |
I call myself an alcoholic because I can't have one or two drinks, I'm incapable of it. I can certainly not drink (27 years) but once I pick one up I'm powerless over how much alcohol I consume and what happens. |
Technically this is a dicey question. There are psychological tests that are purported to measure alcoholism, but all such tests are subject to error. There is no physical test that I know of that renders a definitive answer to your question. If there were such a test, I think it would be in wide use. The term "alcoholic" is probably up for debate. God knows, drinkers test themselves enough of the time, some always getting the same result, yet fail to admit they might be alcoholic, anyway. I remember a clever statement that resonated with me, however: "If you are struggling to control your drinking, you don't have control over your drinking." This should be enough to tell a person that he has a problem, and I don't know what more he should need. |
Originally Posted by FutureYesterday
(Post 7071078)
Hi, everybody. This is my first post here, but I’ve been reading alot since few years ago. I’ll give you some info about a man, and I need your opinions about his drinking pattern...well, actually, more that a pattern already. I know alot about alcoholism, about moderate consumption wich looks barely impossible/abstinence, but I just can’t think clearly. So, this man, in his forties, started to drink heavily after an emotional problem, than he lost his job and his wife (due to drinking) so he had nothing to go back to. He had a short period of heavy drinking in his 20, also in stressful period ehen he was drinking to black out, but this passed in a few months when problems cleared. So, 18 months ago he was hospitalised for the first time and he added about 15 admission, last one being 6 months ago. He used to binge drink, on his own, started to drink and couldn’t stop on his own, always ending in the hospital after one/2 weeks of being intoxicated. He could then resist for 1 week to 3 months, but he as soon as he started...in a few weeks he was back in hospital again, after doing many stupid things and eventually being unconscious. he went into rehab, came back, managed to get a new job wich he loves, his personal life it’s good...but confessed that 2 months ago he started drinking again, “moderately” of course, without finishing a bottle ever, only wine and beer, from time to time, without getting drunk and bla bla. The truth is he never resisted 2 months without getting intoxicated. he never had withdrawal symptoms is this alcoholism or problem drinking? Do you thing he’ll eve r be able to moderate? I know the theory, the statistics, the threads around here. I think I just need a more personalized answer. thank you. |
how will it help you to have other people's opinions on this distinction? not being snarky, but genuine question. |
End stage alcoholism (stage 4). -regular blackouts -loss of significant relationships and jobs -Severe health problems resulting in hospitalization -inability to stop without intensive support due to entrenched addiction -inability to recognize the severity of the problem Two months of moderate drinking is just a lead up to his usual abusive drinking. Also what alcoholics say they do and what they actually do are two different things. You don’t know how he’s drinking on his own. |
Welcome FutureYesterday, lots of good comments here already. I am guessing this is someone you know and that you have a vested interest in their health/recovery? In any case, as most here have mentioned what you call it is really doesn't matter. It's crystal clear to me that this person you describe has a very big problem with alcohol, and that not drinking any alcohol is likely the solution to that problem. And it's also almost universally true that someone who has a problem like this has the problem for life - AKA there is no going back to moderate/social/normal drinking. |
So, this man, in his forties, started to drink heavily after an emotional problem, than he lost his job and his wife (due to drinking) so he had nothing to go back to. He had a short period of heavy drinking in his 20, also in stressful period ehen he was drinking to black out, but this passed in a few months when problems cleared. Normal people don't drink to escape their problems. So, 18 months ago he was hospitalised for the first time and he added about 15 admission, last one being 6 months ago. 15 admissions?!? This is SERIOUS, no matter how you wish to label it- this person needs HELP. He used to binge drink, on his own, started to drink and couldn’t stop on his own, always ending in the hospital after one/2 weeks of being intoxicated. He could then resist for 1 week to 3 months, but he as soon as he started...in a few weeks he was back in hospital again, after doing many stupid things and eventually being unconscious. Again...a SERIOUS problem, no matter how you choose to describe it. It's a problem to do stupid things, black out and wind up in the hospital after drinking. This requires intervention, because people can die engaging in this sort of behavior. Or go to jail, or kill someone else, or damage their organs. he went into rehab, came back, managed to get a new job wich he loves, his personal life it’s good...but confessed that 2 months ago he started drinking again, “moderately” of course, without finishing a bottle ever, only wine and beer, from time to time, without getting drunk and bla bla. The truth is he never resisted 2 months without getting intoxicated. he never had withdrawal symptoms. Sounds a lot like me. I never drank every day- I was a binge drinker. But, when I did drink, I drank to excess and I did the things described here- blackouts, hospitalization. I missed work and lost various jobs, I left college, I got into fights with people, I got thrown out of bars, and the thing that got me sober was getting arrested and it wound up being pretty serious. It would have NEVER happened if I was sober, and it still affects my life to this day. All that...and I never drank daily. My best friend, who was a binge drinker with me, is now an alcoholic and has some sort of liver problem, but she won't go to the doctor to get a test done, so we don't know how serious it is. She also still drinks. We are not even 40 yet. Some people should just just stay away from alcohol, but only he can make that decision. You can provide him with the information, but if he doesn't see it as a problem, he will continue and there's not much anyone can do. I would try and present the evidence, at least. Good luck. |
Thank you for the replies! I would like to quote, but I’m not very good at this on my phone. So, I agree with everything you say and to answer the user who was asking why do I need some strangers’ opinions, well...I suppose that discussing possible outcomes makes me a bit calmer. Not that I wouldn’t know. I think I just needed some personal stories. The lname” I give to the problem has to do more exactly with the outcomes and the capacity to drink moderately. Because that’s the question after all, and if you read about it , things tend to go into the extremes: some people claim full abstinence is the only way to go, others that moderation is doable. Probably, I need your thoughts on this to prepare. His admissions were in a psychiatric hospital simply because he couldn’t stop drinking. He would stay intoxicated for up to 2 weeks, until someone managed to get him to the hospital to wake up. He now look at that like a far away “stage” in his life saying that he now has no urge to drink, he doesn’t even need to finish the glass, he doesn’t think about it and he’ll stay away from strong alcohol as he knows he can’t handle it. That’s the typical alcoholic speech, right? But I don’t understand how a guy who would black-out in a few hours less than 10 months ago and inly stop in hospital, is able to stop now after one drink. I know for sure he’s telling the truth and he goes to work and has a life. Actually, he’s the one asking: am I an alcoholic after all? Don’t they say I should have a physical dependence, that my brain is wired differently. How come the urge is gone now? Of course I asked why does he need even that one beer. Answer: “one to sleep better, never 2 because I’m jittery the next day.” As you all said, that’s a person about wich I care a lot, I helped him in this recovery journey, but, from various reasons, I decided to basically step away. But I’m alone with all this questions, and I’m just wondering: is it possible ? How long will it take for him to go back? |
Originally Posted by FutureYesterday
(Post 7071267)
How long will it take for him to go back? He could certainly choose to abstain completely too, so it's not as if he doesn't have a choice. But he cannot choose moderate drinking anymore, that's simply not an option. |
hi and welcome FutureYesterday :) But I don’t understand how a guy who would black-out in a few hours less than 10 months ago and inly stop in hospital, is able to stop now after one drink. I know for sure he’s telling the truth and he goes to work and has a life. Actually, he’s the one asking: am I an alcoholic after all? Don’t they say I should have a physical dependence, that my brain is wired differently. How come the urge is gone now? Might he never return to that? Its possible, at least theoretically. My brother used to drink as heavily as I, or heavier - but he married and had a family. His drinking - at least what I've seen of it - is within normal Australian male parameters now...sometimes a little worse for wear but not one to carry it on the next day anymore.....but he'd be about the only person I know ever who did that. Another friend of mine always admitted he was an alcoholic. Just suddenly stopped one day... until he took a drink 20 years later. Lost his family and his job in double quick time before he stopped again. For me one drink would lead inevitably back to the alcoholic nightmare I struggle for my life to get out of. D |
A cucumber can become a pickle, but once it's a pickle it can not go back to being a cucumber! Once I crossed that line into alcoholism ...no matter how hard I tried...I could never go back ! I experimented many times with being a "social" drinker, but it always lead back to disaster. |
From the evidence I would think this man, if he continues drinking, will end up in the hospital again unfortunately. I know an alcoholic who can drink in moderation now. Has transferred the addiction to benzos, pain pills, tranquilizers, and marijuana instead. |
With this man’s past, it is like playing with fire to have one drink. He could combust any time. How long. No one can know. Lets both pray he never does. |
The term alcoholic certainly is up for debate. I have considered myself a problem drinker for years. I use this term to describe myself because I don't have physical withdrawal symptoms but alcohol causes significant problems in my life. Here is the crazy thing. I would use this distinction as an excuse to keep drinking. After all I'm not an alcoholic because I dont have physical withdrawal symptoms. I just have to deal with all of the extreamly negative consequences of drinking which could even lead to mine, or someone else death. it was only after waking up after another heavy binge blackout night 49 days ago, I finally admitted to myself that I cant drink anymore. Now I realize how much control alcohol had on me. How in the world could I justify drinking because it only causes serious problems in my life and not withdrawal symptoms. |
In addition to all the good comments (and questions for you) above - bottom line, I have never seen a problem drinker/alcoholic/regular hospital visitor/whatever you call it successfully moderate - PERMANENTLY. It's a pipe dream many have and it is an exhausting and IMO futile waste of time. And quite possibly, invitation to a quick death. |
Yes, the question was how long do you think it will take for him to go back to hospital? Weird as this sounds, maybe sooner than later is better, as is his only wake up call and he will loose less. I can see him going in a roller coaster. everybody talks, when it comes to relapses, about the drinking per se. But there are so many changes in one’s personality. The illusion of controlling his drinking gives him a strange self confidence wich makes him sort of arrogant and self sufficient, nothing like the humble man he was when he was truly aware he has a problem. It is sad as he has 3 teenage children watching him. But I don’t know, the fact that now he manages to keep his falls happening more seldom, isn’t it a good indicator? |
Originally Posted by FutureYesterday
(Post 7071664)
But I don’t know, the fact that now he manages to keep his falls happening more seldom, isn’t it a good indicator? The fact that someone who was institutionalized because of alcohol and lost job/spouse because of alcohol still wants to drink fits my personal definition of insanity. |
There's just no way to know the trajectory his life will take. He may moderate for a little while. He may end up quitting completely. He may die in one of his next drinking events. There is no way to know. I think you are wise to stay off the roller coaster. He isn't done yet, it sounds like. Getting involved in his drama sounds like a bad idea. I hope you'll be able to step away from his drinking consequences. |
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