Shoes & Ships & Sealing Wax & Cabbages & Kings (a place to talk of many things)
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
Also have been thinking lately about how to achieve a work/play balance in my life. I know it's childish but really how am I supposed to "play" in sobriety? What do I even enjoy doing? Haven't really figured that out yet but traveling is a tried and true source of enjoyment for me. And it allows for long periods of productivity in anticipation of said enjoyment. I can't deny that when I quit drinking my motivation and ambition to "achieve" anything in my job or career sort of flat lined and I'm having difficulty resurrecting it. But I must find a way or risk an even more prolonged stagnation in all areas which is not healthy. Just some random thoughts..
Woe is Moo.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
My thing to look forward to always was drinking or food. Neither of which possible if I am to be sober. Think I maybe has to accept I not need "reward" or that effort is it own reward... or some stupid shht like that! 
Glad you on the upswing, Hawk.
In past I enjoy travel, but now I set in my Crone way so much it seem like impossible chore --But not have my bed! Or my food! Or my shows! Or my schedule! Too much rigidity and control. Need to loosen up, but it so hard, especial when you live alone.
Glad you on the upswing, Hawk.
In past I enjoy travel, but now I set in my Crone way so much it seem like impossible chore --But not have my bed! Or my food! Or my shows! Or my schedule! Too much rigidity and control. Need to loosen up, but it so hard, especial when you live alone.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
i hear you on rigidity and control, Cow.
and many others around me see that as organized and responsible.
frame it either way, i know it as rigidity and control.
it is one reason i liked drinking: the loosening of control.
and many others around me see that as organized and responsible.
frame it either way, i know it as rigidity and control.
it is one reason i liked drinking: the loosening of control.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
I just spent the weekend with old friends in the Hague and Amsterdam. Old friends with whom I had shared many a weekend in both places 25 years ago enjoying large amounts of wine and beer.
We had a total blast. They drink. Me no drink.
And I really never wanted to. No lie. Not even a little but. Never.
Because, I know they enjoy a few drinks, sometimes even a few many, but totally under control. Me. Never under control.
Which bring me back to the discussion of control.
The thing I like best about not drinking is that I am in control. When I drank, it was in control. No more.
If we control freaks, that is reason enough to stop. For me.
xx
We had a total blast. They drink. Me no drink.
And I really never wanted to. No lie. Not even a little but. Never.
Because, I know they enjoy a few drinks, sometimes even a few many, but totally under control. Me. Never under control.
Which bring me back to the discussion of control.
The thing I like best about not drinking is that I am in control. When I drank, it was in control. No more.
If we control freaks, that is reason enough to stop. For me.
xx
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,429
I understand drinking is a no in the future Cow, but could you elaborate more on why food is also verboten?
I know you have to be careful of spice, but what things keto can you have?
I'm finally dialed in (for the most part) to my keto diet. I feel actually almost "good" if there is such a thing.
Steady energy, not sad, getting things accomplished.
Not craving carbs makes not craving booze a whole easier as well.
Anyone else tried this as a way to help with relapse?
I know you have to be careful of spice, but what things keto can you have?
I'm finally dialed in (for the most part) to my keto diet. I feel actually almost "good" if there is such a thing.
Steady energy, not sad, getting things accomplished.
Not craving carbs makes not craving booze a whole easier as well.
Anyone else tried this as a way to help with relapse?
Woe is Moo.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
Hi Hawk, sound like keto doing great for you. I not actually keto, cuz my blood sugar get too low.
Reason I not can use food as reward is cuz food was first and maybe still even primary addiction/coping mechanism/soother and can run amuck and become all consuming just as much as drugs.
Yes, fini, I live in total alcohol oblivion and abandon for good 15 year and other tell me I appear very happy during this times. (I not remember and, of course, they not see day after devastations.)
It seem I only feel safe in tiny world of total control or in state of full on disassociation.
Hi Drops, glad you enjoy you self!
Reason I not can use food as reward is cuz food was first and maybe still even primary addiction/coping mechanism/soother and can run amuck and become all consuming just as much as drugs.
Originally Posted by fini 
i hear you on rigidity and control, Cow.
and many others around me see that as organized and responsible.
frame it either way, i know it as rigidity and control.
it is one reason i liked drinking: the loosening of control.
and many others around me see that as organized and responsible.
frame it either way, i know it as rigidity and control.
it is one reason i liked drinking: the loosening of control.
It seem I only feel safe in tiny world of total control or in state of full on disassociation.
Hi Drops, glad you enjoy you self!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,429
OK, been thinking on this Cow
I understand using food as a reward, but what about just having quality meals to live?
I'm having trouble seeing the demarcation between making something that tastes good in a moderate amount with whatever your frequency is, as compared to using it for coping?
If you don't eat as a stress response, but instead to nourish your body, aren't you building a safe and positive relationship with yourself?
What does your therapist say about all this? Surely she expects you to eat?
I find I have been controlling food more lately--being aware of portion size (but not measuring) and mindful of not snacking. It actually feels sort of good to do that. Normally I just eat however much I want and don't time mealtimes.
What is a reasonable protocol which allows you control, but also some pleasure?
I understand using food as a reward, but what about just having quality meals to live?
I'm having trouble seeing the demarcation between making something that tastes good in a moderate amount with whatever your frequency is, as compared to using it for coping?
If you don't eat as a stress response, but instead to nourish your body, aren't you building a safe and positive relationship with yourself?
What does your therapist say about all this? Surely she expects you to eat?
I find I have been controlling food more lately--being aware of portion size (but not measuring) and mindful of not snacking. It actually feels sort of good to do that. Normally I just eat however much I want and don't time mealtimes.
What is a reasonable protocol which allows you control, but also some pleasure?
Woe is Moo.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
My nutrition very good, Hawk, is just I total has disordered eating. Not sure how to address it. Not sure is even possible. Any food I find that give me a pleasure hit, I gonna escalate it, obsess about it, and ritualize it to point whole day revolve around using it. Sound familiar?
I give you recent example. Randomly at store, I decide to try curry as new meal, cuz is good for you and blah blah. I make it and I like the curry very much. Start to eat the curry every day. Look forward to curry. Can I has curry for breakfast? Curry go on sale, I buy 4 case of curry. I obsess over exacting ratio of red/yellow curry for perfect mix. Start to realize spice and coconut in the curry too stimulating and is making brain overactive and agitated. Continue to eat curry. Sometime eat curry but spit some out so as try to avoid bad consequence. Has weird rage episode couple day ago after eat too much curry. Realize I out of control with the curry but now got 4 case of it in the cupboard! OMG! Has to get rid of some of this curry! Oh no, receipt already in outside trash bin. Go fishing through huge garbage dumpster with broom handle trying to snag receipt so can return curry. Realize I being total crazy and manic. I react to so much foods like this, it make me just want to throw hooves up.
Almost seem like I has to do some kind of sad, stark "safe foods only" diet base solely on nutrition, or otherwise I going through this again and again and feel like I still feeding addictive grooves and tendencies ...literally!
PS. Where everybody go? Seem to happen everytime we start sober/health initiative.
Everybody say they is IN!
Then 2 week later is dusty ghost town in here cuz everybody hiding out.
I give you recent example. Randomly at store, I decide to try curry as new meal, cuz is good for you and blah blah. I make it and I like the curry very much. Start to eat the curry every day. Look forward to curry. Can I has curry for breakfast? Curry go on sale, I buy 4 case of curry. I obsess over exacting ratio of red/yellow curry for perfect mix. Start to realize spice and coconut in the curry too stimulating and is making brain overactive and agitated. Continue to eat curry. Sometime eat curry but spit some out so as try to avoid bad consequence. Has weird rage episode couple day ago after eat too much curry. Realize I out of control with the curry but now got 4 case of it in the cupboard! OMG! Has to get rid of some of this curry! Oh no, receipt already in outside trash bin. Go fishing through huge garbage dumpster with broom handle trying to snag receipt so can return curry. Realize I being total crazy and manic. I react to so much foods like this, it make me just want to throw hooves up.
Almost seem like I has to do some kind of sad, stark "safe foods only" diet base solely on nutrition, or otherwise I going through this again and again and feel like I still feeding addictive grooves and tendencies ...literally!
PS. Where everybody go? Seem to happen everytime we start sober/health initiative.
Everybody say they is IN!
Then 2 week later is dusty ghost town in here cuz everybody hiding out.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
If it's any comfort Cow I think the obsessiveness about food/other drinks really does diminish with time. I distinctly remember incidents in the beginning of chugging soda out of the fridge at 3 am exactly like I was chugging beer (such elegant and charming ways I had) and thinking wtf am I doing?
I've got nothing new to report but still not smoking (or even wanting to) and feeling much better about the guy situation after realizing it's actually not going to cause me to jump off the deep end or spontaneously combust into flames. After much anxiety and ambivalence about how to proceed in my job I finally just emailed the lady and asked if I could repeat the training.. she said yes of course the next one starts next month. So that's done and things are good for the moment.
I've got nothing new to report but still not smoking (or even wanting to) and feeling much better about the guy situation after realizing it's actually not going to cause me to jump off the deep end or spontaneously combust into flames. After much anxiety and ambivalence about how to proceed in my job I finally just emailed the lady and asked if I could repeat the training.. she said yes of course the next one starts next month. So that's done and things are good for the moment.
Woe is Moo.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
Excellent work, Cosima! And Hawk! And Drops! And Soberista! I not mean to imply everybody hiding out cuz they not successful, I now some of you guys is doing great.
Regarding of my disordered eating --this is consistent since early childhood and plus also whether I drinking or not. I think is whole hyper-fixation on a "reward or pacifier" that is corrupt within me.
Like, only moment I live for is the moments. I wish to put down the and live a life, you know? Like maybe I look forward to go for walk or see friend or go to event ...instead of just really look forward to get home from that and in front of TV.
Regarding of my disordered eating --this is consistent since early childhood and plus also whether I drinking or not. I think is whole hyper-fixation on a "reward or pacifier" that is corrupt within me.
Like, only moment I live for is the moments. I wish to put down the and live a life, you know? Like maybe I look forward to go for walk or see friend or go to event ...instead of just really look forward to get home from that and in front of TV.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
With me its my evenings with m daughter and SO watching our TV show.
Its OTT important to me and if something comes in between (like her homework) I HATE it. Much more than she does.
So I started to get worried that I was obsessing too much about it and then decided WTF, its just a ritual, obsess away. Everyone needs something to fixate on.
I wonder the same thing about your curry -- is it the chicken or the egg. I always obesses about a good curry -- kinda thought everyone did actually.
So it seems you are worried that it has become too important, but I wonder. Maybe its not the curry that making you crazy but you worrying but the curry.
Curry is not harmful. I realize for you it might be, but it might not, but by turning it into a problem you take away all your innocent pleasures, leaving only the bad ones.... and we know what happens then ... cant speak for you, but whata bout you just let yourself obsess away about everything except the dreaded c and w and see what happens.
Embrace your inner curry.
I saw the Heathers last might in London. Thought of you for some reason. Was v. good. Leads amazing.
PS. I doing the big FA about the whole life challenge... but today is a new day...
Its OTT important to me and if something comes in between (like her homework) I HATE it. Much more than she does.
So I started to get worried that I was obsessing too much about it and then decided WTF, its just a ritual, obsess away. Everyone needs something to fixate on.
I wonder the same thing about your curry -- is it the chicken or the egg. I always obesses about a good curry -- kinda thought everyone did actually.
So it seems you are worried that it has become too important, but I wonder. Maybe its not the curry that making you crazy but you worrying but the curry.
Curry is not harmful. I realize for you it might be, but it might not, but by turning it into a problem you take away all your innocent pleasures, leaving only the bad ones.... and we know what happens then ... cant speak for you, but whata bout you just let yourself obsess away about everything except the dreaded c and w and see what happens.
Embrace your inner curry.
I saw the Heathers last might in London. Thought of you for some reason. Was v. good. Leads amazing.
PS. I doing the big FA about the whole life challenge... but today is a new day...
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: 45th Parallel, Michigan
Posts: 816
Dear Cow:
I think we're psychically related. My entire adult life, I've felt the need to reward myself for doing things I don't enjoy, like leaving the house to work. For years, that reward was alcohol and tobacco. Now it's pots of coffee and tobacco. All of it snarfed up in front of the hypnotic glow of the television. And always piles of food nearby, to take a break between smokes...ah, the single life!
When I see "cross-addiction" mentioned at SR, I close my eyes and jam my fingers in my ears and sing my little avoidance tune until the truthy thoughts go away!
In the past 19 months, I've given up alcohol and sugar. My dependence on coffee and cigarettes increased in direct proportion. The thought of living without them fills me with dread and sorrow. So I don't even try to limit them.
Advice? None. Commiseration? Plenty. I'm glad you're here to put this stuff into words for me...
I think we're psychically related. My entire adult life, I've felt the need to reward myself for doing things I don't enjoy, like leaving the house to work. For years, that reward was alcohol and tobacco. Now it's pots of coffee and tobacco. All of it snarfed up in front of the hypnotic glow of the television. And always piles of food nearby, to take a break between smokes...ah, the single life!
When I see "cross-addiction" mentioned at SR, I close my eyes and jam my fingers in my ears and sing my little avoidance tune until the truthy thoughts go away!
In the past 19 months, I've given up alcohol and sugar. My dependence on coffee and cigarettes increased in direct proportion. The thought of living without them fills me with dread and sorrow. So I don't even try to limit them.
Advice? None. Commiseration? Plenty. I'm glad you're here to put this stuff into words for me...
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 690
Cow.....I am hiding out....cuz I could not make it two weeks with the no sugar things. Big binge last Friday and Saturday night. Went to store after a binge for Ben and Jerry's ...what is wrong with me? I am so with you on the reward thing. I try to live simplistically, I thought today what if I can go for a week....maybe I should reward myself. What is there to reward myself though with if not food or wine? I am on day 4 ...let me really try to make it through a weekend!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
Posts: 5,095
Hi Crones and Bros
Been reading a lot but haven't felt I have too much to add.
My addiction is strongly OC. When I take away the ability to compulse with alcohol use, I usually start obsessively thinking about something/someone else (I can't think about alcohol for obvious reasons). In the early days its about channeling the obsessive-ness into somewhat 'safe' areas....exercise, organization, schedule, meetings.
Overall its about addressing FEAR. And the anxiety that is created by fear. Getting down to what is really, truly driving all these obsessions. I believe fear is at the very foundation of all of this stuff. There was also a huge fear of simply emotionally growing up for me. But that was just part of it.
Been reading a lot but haven't felt I have too much to add.
My addiction is strongly OC. When I take away the ability to compulse with alcohol use, I usually start obsessively thinking about something/someone else (I can't think about alcohol for obvious reasons). In the early days its about channeling the obsessive-ness into somewhat 'safe' areas....exercise, organization, schedule, meetings.
Overall its about addressing FEAR. And the anxiety that is created by fear. Getting down to what is really, truly driving all these obsessions. I believe fear is at the very foundation of all of this stuff. There was also a huge fear of simply emotionally growing up for me. But that was just part of it.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 92
I’m still in. No sodas. Iced tea only. Lots of troubling work situations.
A little overwhelmed with outside stuff.
Very fatigued and agitated with my country just now. Must connect with aliens to take me of planet.
Everyone, stay the course. Sobriety is good. It takes what it takes. Sometimes that’s heroic strength but it’s within us.
Love from Lenina
A little overwhelmed with outside stuff.
Very fatigued and agitated with my country just now. Must connect with aliens to take me of planet.
Everyone, stay the course. Sobriety is good. It takes what it takes. Sometimes that’s heroic strength but it’s within us.
Love from Lenina
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,429
Day 12 sober, keto lifestyle change going really well.
Down about five pounds so far and my energy and sleep quality have improved hugely.
I had quite a bit of inflammatory edema, but still think there has been some "real" fat-burning happening.
I'm eating when hungry, and not restricting much, but I'm finding that the hangry feelings aren't there at the moment.
Just a steady energy, though I get tired early and fall asleep pretty quick.
I am not feeling like eating much or often, and that feels amazing.
I'm assuming that I'm going to be in healing mode awhile, so trying to plan
for the extra rest and not stressing if I can help it.
I'm getting a bit more efficient at work, and have the urge to purge my house and office.
I plan to act on this as it is really needed.
I'm not craving alcohol much at all which has been a surprise.
A twinge here and there during usual "happy hour" times and routes home from work, but I'm being careful.
I've got a long way to go, but I do begin to feel solidly on the path again.
That in itself is maybe the best thing I have to report.
I agree LeeLee--staying the course seems to be the required input.
Down about five pounds so far and my energy and sleep quality have improved hugely.
I had quite a bit of inflammatory edema, but still think there has been some "real" fat-burning happening.
I'm eating when hungry, and not restricting much, but I'm finding that the hangry feelings aren't there at the moment.
Just a steady energy, though I get tired early and fall asleep pretty quick.
I am not feeling like eating much or often, and that feels amazing.
I'm assuming that I'm going to be in healing mode awhile, so trying to plan
for the extra rest and not stressing if I can help it.
I'm getting a bit more efficient at work, and have the urge to purge my house and office.
I plan to act on this as it is really needed.
I'm not craving alcohol much at all which has been a surprise.
A twinge here and there during usual "happy hour" times and routes home from work, but I'm being careful.
I've got a long way to go, but I do begin to feel solidly on the path again.
That in itself is maybe the best thing I have to report.
I agree LeeLee--staying the course seems to be the required input.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: middle of nowhere
Posts: 2,849
Woot woot Hawk! 
I am 14 days tomorrow and the big 3-5. Chairing a meeting.
I have no regrets for the events of tonight. Went to a step study meeting and spent two solid hours after at McDonald's laughing so hard my cheeks hurt and I cried tears
what a great night. We kept thinking we were going to get kicked out, a bunch of sober drunks hooting and hollering like a bunch of ya hoos.
Glad to see everyone here. I've been reading too and just plunking through each day, some ups and downs but I am happy to report it's been a lot more ups than downs.
Even my counselor said to me today, she thinks it's the end of my addiction and beginning of real recovery. I left her office feeling all shiny and full of hope.
The sun was out today and it was unseasonably warm. It was my day off and the kids got to have a day off from school (making up for some lost time).
It was a great day to be sober.
I am 14 days tomorrow and the big 3-5. Chairing a meeting. I have no regrets for the events of tonight. Went to a step study meeting and spent two solid hours after at McDonald's laughing so hard my cheeks hurt and I cried tears
what a great night. We kept thinking we were going to get kicked out, a bunch of sober drunks hooting and hollering like a bunch of ya hoos. Glad to see everyone here. I've been reading too and just plunking through each day, some ups and downs but I am happy to report it's been a lot more ups than downs.
Even my counselor said to me today, she thinks it's the end of my addiction and beginning of real recovery. I left her office feeling all shiny and full of hope.
The sun was out today and it was unseasonably warm. It was my day off and the kids got to have a day off from school (making up for some lost time).
It was a great day to be sober.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 92
I’m still here! I think we forget how to play while we’re in our addictions. I did some volunteer work in the beginning. I wasn’t a party drinker, I self medicated alone. I had to learn how to socialize without going home to my private bottle.
I don’t socialize much these days, I’m working a lot. I don’t think about drinking when I’m out. I bring my own drinks. It’s more common than you might realize.
Stay the course. It’s worth it.
Love and unicorn puffs......Lenina
I don’t socialize much these days, I’m working a lot. I don’t think about drinking when I’m out. I bring my own drinks. It’s more common than you might realize.
Stay the course. It’s worth it.
Love and unicorn puffs......Lenina
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
Howdy friends.
So happy to see so many positive reports. Crones and bros 1 The world .5
I think Frick nailed it, at least for me.
Its all about fear versus personal belief/trust/faith. For those of us that find the latter hard, the former wins. I am finding trust in the big U easier by the day. My addition/bad self hates it, must be on a good path.
XXXXXXXX
So happy to see so many positive reports. Crones and bros 1 The world .5
I think Frick nailed it, at least for me.
Its all about fear versus personal belief/trust/faith. For those of us that find the latter hard, the former wins. I am finding trust in the big U easier by the day. My addition/bad self hates it, must be on a good path.
XXXXXXXX
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