FindingMyNext

I totally understand, Layali.

Gottalife

Hi Layali, I am sorry for being so long responsding for your question.

Contrary to the suggestion of another powetr I do not think AA is a relaible 24/7 defense against the fatal first drink. AA does not claim to be that. However it is by far the most reliable path to such a defense.

Its purpose is to connect you to a power greater than yourself that will solve your problem. That idea didn't come from a religious nut, it came from two famous psychologists, William James, and Carl Jung, and is supported today by still others in this field. Professor Doug Selman, head of psychiatry at Otago university whose tema have had at least one item published on this site, stated that for extreme cases of alcholism - chronic terminal hopeless etc- some kind of conversion experience is the only hope. Having spent a deal of time ,yself working in detoxes with the "frequent flyers" I know this to be true. Ultimately they either get into AA, and have life changing spiritual experiences, or they go mad and die. I never saw a single one toddle off to some alternative method and get well. It just didn't happen.

So here am I, hundreds of miles away from any AA meetings, haven't been able to get to a meeting for months, all the people that hlped me initially, the ones I could turn to for advice, help, and comfort, My rocks if you like, are all dead. My father, my wife, my sponsor, my best friend, all gone. On top of that I have people now depending on me, I am now more of a parent than the child I used to be.

Where do I get my strength? What keeps me sober no matter what? The God of my understanding, discovered through the process of AAs 12 steps. Doesn't matter where I am, who I am with, or what is happening. The Power to live successfully is with me 24/7. The drink problem was completely removed.

I mean, that is what freedom from alcoholc is all about. What a disappointment it would have been to find I could not exist away from meetings. Meetings dependence like dependence on anything human, is unhealthy. It might even be called co-dependence.

BullDog777

I mean this with the utmost respect, and please don't take offense to this as I mean none, but I find some contradiction in what you are writing. You start out saying.."Contrary to the suggestion of another powetr I do not think AA is a relaible 24/7 defense against the fatal first drink. AA does not claim to be that. However it is by far the most reliable path to such a defense."

and then you say "Having spent a deal of time ,yself working in detoxes with the "frequent flyers" I know this to be true. Ultimately they either get into AA, and have life changing spiritual experiences, or they go mad and die. I never saw a single one toddle off to some alternative method and get well. It just didn't happen."


So am I to understand that you're saying that the only reliable method is the practice of AA with or without meetings?

You then said" Where do I get my strength? What keeps me sober no matter what? The God of my understanding, discovered through the process of AAs 12 steps. Doesn't matter where I am, who I am with, or what is happening. The Power to live successfully is with me 24/7. The drink problem was completely removed."

Most of what I disagree with, is that with continued breakthroughs in therapy and clinical psychology, I think the statements you're making are somewhat outdated.

I can tell you this for certain. I have gotten a hell of a lot more out of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for OCD and therapy for PTSD and chronic alcoholism than I have with AA. I can tell you that therapy is why I'm sober. Not AA.

I can tell you I've already done AA. I had a profound spiritual experience and relapsed. It happened in 2010 or 2011.

I can tell you that AA didn't work for my Uncle who decided to quit 45 years ago after he got home from Vietnam without any sort of help at all and stayed sober. He never went mad either.

So, you outlined 3 possible outcomes...the same ones that AA has threatened for 83 years- AA, death or madness.-jail should be included too as mentioned in the BB.

....AA...that gives little more than a 1 in 13 chance of staying sober.

There are so many other methods that work my friend. I'm not trying to badmouth AA, i get a lot out of it at times, but i don't feel it should be pushed as the only means anymore...especially here.

There's a whole other forum for 12 step support.

When I was in rehab, they pushed combination therapy and addiction support groups in conjunction with modern medication and several other methods that were outlined by other people who posted.

I don't care how much time anyone from AA has. The inherent problem with it is it's still the sick trying to heal the sick. There aren't any doctors or psychologists who are professionals in addiction that counsel one on one...that's sponsorship....again...the sick leading the sick. I'm sorry, but those odds kinda suck.

An granted, doctors did help write the big book, but after that...it's the sponsor who has to interpret it....not a professional.

You were fortunate enough to get everything you needed. I think it's awesome that you did.

But there are a ton of people who need sobriety just as bad as you did who deserve to know another way is available and equally successful...maybe even more so.

AA is the most widely known treatment for alcoholism because it's the oldest method that ever worked. It's not necessarily the best anymore.

Gottalife

hey Bulldog, I responded to a poster whom I felt was in a serious spot with a serious solution. There is nothing compulsory about it, but it is a solution I have seen work many times. I don't understand why you felt the need to try and pick it apart. How would that help the OP?

I have this thing called a conscience. People die of this disease. If they do I like to make sure it wasn't because I kept a possible solution from them out of some sort of warped idea of humility.

I have my experience, and I know plenty of experts in the field. I will continue to pass on my experience and their expert opinions where it looks like it might help. Perhaps you could do the same.

BullDog777

I have a conscience too. So much so I was trying to let the OP know that I felt it was a dangerous statement to make that "Having spent a deal of time ,yself working in detoxes with the "frequent flyers" I know this to be true. Ultimately they either get into AA, and have life changing spiritual experiences, or they go mad and die. I never saw a single one toddle off to some alternative method and get well. It just didn't happen."

That might be your experience, but it's not necessarily everyone elses.
An while I appreciate your advice that I should pass on my own experieces where I felt it was helpful, that's what I'm doing now.

I don't want to further discuss this on her thread. My point was made that I wanted to add that there are other successful methods of recovery. That was my only goal.

If you want to continue to discuss it, I encourage you to pm me and I will be happy to talk to you more about it.

snitch

Layali, I am so glad to read.you didn't drink.
You were feeling shaky, you could feel a relapse was maybe on it's way and you came here and posted!!! That's amazing. You put in the action and you got the result. You didn't drink. Success!
Well done :-)

SoberCAH

Layali -

You have certainly done a lot of work that you didn't share in your original post.

Great job and keep it up.

Since your original post was about relapse (always a hugely important topic to me), I suggested that you get and follow a good working plan of recovery to minimize the risk of relapse.

I still do.

I don't think I mentioned it in my earlier post, but, for me (like Gotta), that has been AA.

You have enough information on SR to choose which one you think will most enhance your prospects of success.

Please keep us posted.

We don't want you to have a new sobriety date or, worse, none at all.

Mango212

Layali,

How are you doing today?

Trusting in the process of healing, recovery and growth tends to bring more of that, regardless of the methods first chosen. The wider the support network, the better. If what was working no longer is, then perhaps it's simply a sign of it being time to add to the recovery plan.

Possible options:

Naturopathic doctor (mine targeted body imbalances )

Mindfulness therapy

Art therapy

New addiction counseling. Simply having new people say the same things or something else will strike me differently. Changing up the location or something else about it can help with creating new routines.

Life doesn't have to suck!

I also had psychological issues become apparent further into my recovery as it was safer to me to deal with. There was a huge difference between the surface "everything looks good" in my family relationships and the actual ongoing trauma of emotional abuse I wasn't aware of. Things come to the surface one way or another.

AAPJ

While AA helps me a lot I think BullDog laid down some powerful thoughts about considering alternative methods of recovery. One thing I have noticed about my many of my fellow AAers is that they seem to have a need to believe that they have found the "best" recovery method. Personally, I could not care a bit if others find more success in other paths to recovery.

It's more about getting to the right outcome. Recovery.

Layali

Thanks everyone for responding.
I never did drink! I came back to this site today though because in the last few days I have been having more issues, and felt very close to drinking. I haven't had a drink but I have been wanting to so badly. So I read over all of this, and read the new comments that I hadn't seen last time.

I do have to say, AA is not for me. I get that it does work for some people. I guess what I don't like about it is what I don't like about most organised religion - which is they feel they have the one true way and are pretty adamant about it. I appreciate wanting to help though. Offering what you think will work.

I don't think that if one doesn't do AA then they're going to eventually drink. I think that different things work for different people. So far, CBT and DBT have been fairly useful. Looking into physical health things too seem to help. Therapies, supplements, art, hobbies, reaching out to others, mindfulness, etc...there are a lot of the things. The key is finding what works.

Actually, I realise time and time again that coming to this site is very useful for me!! I'm glad I remembered it again. Because I have been in a very terrible place mentally, this past little while, and have been looking for ways to 'get out of my brain' and kept thinking alcohol or drugs would do it. But no, they would only in the end cause more problems. I have to remember that.

Thanks for being here everybody. And for offering your comments. I appreciate it.

fini

Layali,
if you find SR of use to you, then why not use it consistently?
a lot of folks find something that "works" for them, only to let it slide, or let themselves slide away, and then have no connections, no tetherings, anywhere when things get rough.
it's great that you remember SR is here and then drop in, but wouldn't it make sense to incorporate what is helpful into your daily life?

BullDog777

Therapy, CBT, SR...whatever works for you is the key. I'm glad you didn't drink. I'm here every day even though i don't post everyday. It always helps me to come here to see how everyone else is doing.SR is a big part of my recovery.

Delilah1

Hi Layali,

Great job finding other outlets to deal with stress. I am a little over a month away from three years sober and mindfulness, and exercise have been a big part of stress relief for me. I also still check in on here daily, the relationships I have formed on SR are very supportive, and I know they all get it.