Why are 12-step programs seen as the 'go to'?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 86
Why are 12-step programs seen as the 'go to'?
I think I have the answer.
There are simply no other sources of help that are given for free based on other methods (at least no-ones found a way yet).
The only widely-accessible means of social support, for finding people who are in a similar situation revolves around a twelve step program.
This is not a criticism of twelve step systems, but it's raising the question that there should be more choice available should it not work for the individual. What about those people who twelve steps didn't work for, who are not religious?
I know that AA is incredibly valuable, it's the only source of social support in many communities available for people with drinking problems where you'll find people who're in the same boat, you'll feel less lonely. That is what's valuable about AA.
What I'm bringing up is as far as treatment and therapy goes & further treatment beyond the social support of others who've been in the same boat goes, there's **** all else to turn to that doesn't cost a fortune. That is what's not right.
Heard of the 'inverse care law'? The sicker you are, the less likely you are to afford it, the poorer you are, the more likely you are to be sick. This is what the socialized health care systems of the UK & other European countries are based on. This applies equally to substance addictions as to other health problems.
There are simply no other sources of help that are given for free based on other methods (at least no-ones found a way yet).
The only widely-accessible means of social support, for finding people who are in a similar situation revolves around a twelve step program.
This is not a criticism of twelve step systems, but it's raising the question that there should be more choice available should it not work for the individual. What about those people who twelve steps didn't work for, who are not religious?
I know that AA is incredibly valuable, it's the only source of social support in many communities available for people with drinking problems where you'll find people who're in the same boat, you'll feel less lonely. That is what's valuable about AA.
What I'm bringing up is as far as treatment and therapy goes & further treatment beyond the social support of others who've been in the same boat goes, there's **** all else to turn to that doesn't cost a fortune. That is what's not right.
Heard of the 'inverse care law'? The sicker you are, the less likely you are to afford it, the poorer you are, the more likely you are to be sick. This is what the socialized health care systems of the UK & other European countries are based on. This applies equally to substance addictions as to other health problems.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 572
Vulcan – they’ve been around the longest & AA/NA are pretty much anywhere from the boondocks to the big cities. Most coastal cities (and many in flyover country) have alternatives like Refuge Recovery and SMART. And the latter have online resources too, so there’s plenty to choose from. And the contributions are similarly $1-$2.
You're on to something with the inverse care phenomenon but that's a fact of life: the ones who need it most don't often get it & the ones who need it the least have the requisite access.
You're on to something with the inverse care phenomenon but that's a fact of life: the ones who need it most don't often get it & the ones who need it the least have the requisite access.
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
The value of AA isn't social, that is a by product of being part of the fellowship. The solution is the program of AA when worked to full measure.
There are other non -12 step programs or no structured programs at all. SR is a testament to all types of solutions and paths and friends have found their path.
Some common themes of sobriety I find here are acceptance of the problem, willingness to do whatever is necessary, openmindedness and action.
I didn't think my way into alcoholism and couldn't think my way out.
Keep seeking, ask questions and find your path...... Glad you're here today.
There are other non -12 step programs or no structured programs at all. SR is a testament to all types of solutions and paths and friends have found their path.
Some common themes of sobriety I find here are acceptance of the problem, willingness to do whatever is necessary, openmindedness and action.
I didn't think my way into alcoholism and couldn't think my way out.
Keep seeking, ask questions and find your path...... Glad you're here today.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,439
AA is probably the most widely available but there are other programmes as has been noted - SMART, lifering, RefugeRecovery,.
If you live in or near a big city in the US or even in Europe chances are there are other meeting based alternative methods. available, and almost every method has on line meetings now.
Rational Recovery has no meetings at all.
Google AVRT crash course.
D
If you live in or near a big city in the US or even in Europe chances are there are other meeting based alternative methods. available, and almost every method has on line meetings now.
Rational Recovery has no meetings at all.
Google AVRT crash course.
D
Last edited by Dee74; 08-21-2018 at 09:57 PM. Reason: most not moist :)
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
check out the secular rsources farther down the forum list, vulcan.
after you have the required minimum length of sobriety, you han help increase the availablity of free meetings with a bit of effort. starting a Lifering meeting, for example, was not insurmountable; took effort, determination, desire, running around, some courage.
i have met quite a few people who bemoan the absence of other meetings but don't put themselves out to start them, either.
after you have the required minimum length of sobriety, you han help increase the availablity of free meetings with a bit of effort. starting a Lifering meeting, for example, was not insurmountable; took effort, determination, desire, running around, some courage.
i have met quite a few people who bemoan the absence of other meetings but don't put themselves out to start them, either.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
I don't know about other 12 step fellowships other than a lot of them are not widely available. There are two things important to understand about the why it is the go to program. The first is well put in a comment by professor Doug Selman, head of psychiatry at Otago University, and head of the New Zealand Addiction Council. "AA is the most successful self help program ever in the history fo the world" I might argue about the self help aspect, but what he says is very true. It's growth has been phenomenal and even though other methods have developed and had all the advantage of modern communications, none have come close to emulating AA's exponential growth. 20 years in, 150,000 recovered members, 600 thousand groups. 80 years later around 100,000 groups.
Selman also stated that he needed conversion experience, required for severe cases, was most likely to be found through the AA program.
And that is the other aspect. AA is a one trick pony. It has a track record of successful recovery through conversion experience via the 12 steps. It has nothing else. It is like a shoe store with only one pair of shoes to sell. One size, one color, do you want them or not? It is misleading to suggest AA has anything else to offer.
Its simple recipe involves getting connected to the Power by working in three key elements of the total AA package. Recovery - the steps, Unity, the fellowship, and Service - carrying the message to other alcoholics. If you are in all three sides of the triangle, you cannot relapse.
But if you want a different pair of shoes, ones with no soul (haha) you will have to look elsewhere.
I read somewhere else about prison system data that showed recidivism rates for alcoholic inmates who began attending AA dropped from something like 70% to 20%. I think that may have been San Quintin. Needless to say numbers like that are good news for society as a whole.
Selman also stated that he needed conversion experience, required for severe cases, was most likely to be found through the AA program.
And that is the other aspect. AA is a one trick pony. It has a track record of successful recovery through conversion experience via the 12 steps. It has nothing else. It is like a shoe store with only one pair of shoes to sell. One size, one color, do you want them or not? It is misleading to suggest AA has anything else to offer.
Its simple recipe involves getting connected to the Power by working in three key elements of the total AA package. Recovery - the steps, Unity, the fellowship, and Service - carrying the message to other alcoholics. If you are in all three sides of the triangle, you cannot relapse.
But if you want a different pair of shoes, ones with no soul (haha) you will have to look elsewhere.
I read somewhere else about prison system data that showed recidivism rates for alcoholic inmates who began attending AA dropped from something like 70% to 20%. I think that may have been San Quintin. Needless to say numbers like that are good news for society as a whole.
Member
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,602
***take this with a grain of salt as I'm less than a month in***
I wonder how where one is based influences views on 12 step programmes like AA.
For example, perhaps it is because I live in London and choose my meetings carefully, but I would say that most people I listen to at AA meetings, and nearly all of the most insightful of them, (I've only been going 23 days but that's enough for me to get what's going on there) don't believe in God at all and view the programme itself and the support network of individuals who follow it as their "higher power". They read a lot of sense in the big book but acknowledge the fact that it was written 80 years ago and so the language mirrors the times a little bit. Most will say that it is, in the main, a practical programme with value being derived from the following:
- it's really effective group therapy. It provides a very welcoming forum for fellow addicts to discuss how they're feeling, why drinking won't make it better and in fact will make it a LOT worse and how their lives have improved since quitting.
- in the early stages the sheer repetition of the message engrains in the participant's brains just how bad an idea drinking is and so is a very practical mental conditioning tool in preventing people picking up. While the brain is repairing itself and still unable to send sufficient signals of warning that drinking will be catastrophic, AA effectively does that job.
- it provides a framework for living a better life free of deeply engrained resentments, grudges, fears, hang ups etc by encouraging people to dig deep into their psyche and address the root cause of their alcoholism - by identifying the root cause and dealing with these negative emotions (apologising to those you have wronged or forgiving those who have wronged you).
- helps build self esteem by constantly pointing out the value, anecdotally, in giving to society rather than taking from it. Initially this is by helping other alcoholics recover, helping out at meetings etc but you will hear in meetings how this principle is employed by members to huge benefit in all facets of their lives. Being a helpful, giving person makes you happier and more fulfilled.
I've heard a lot of people say: if this programme was all about God then "He" would be enough to cure you (only one "step" needed!) and they would have a 100% success rate but it's not like that: it's the practical steps in the programme, group therapy and mental conditioning aspects of it that do that. Where was "He" when you got yourself to the point of suicide or death or incarceration?
Many of these people who don't believe in God have been sober for decades. And I hate to say it but the ones babbling on about "miracles" generally tend not to have much of insight to say that will help me move forward towards the end goal. For me, anyone that bleats on about God in relation to AA hasn't been to enough good meetings to realise that the spiritual side of it is only one element that some derive value from and that the real value is in the practical aspects.
I am going to meetings in rural Ireland this week. Ireland is a fairly religious place but that is changing due to the fact that it's pretty common knowledge that the catholic church, especially in Ireland, is an institution that is corrupt to the core and that has caused great suffering over many centuries. If I find that the meetings there are all focused on the spiritual side of it and they beat the Big Book like a bunch of zealous theologians I just won't go to those meetings as they would make me feel bad and discouraged (and possibly be a precursor to relapse). I'd like to think there is good practical insight in all meetings but that is a concern for me this week. Guess I will find out! Even if they are like that in a small town in Ireland I will still go to them in London as they are helping me tremendously. What's wrong with taking the bits that work for you and disregarding the bits that don't? Throwing the baby out with the bath water because of some received wisdom from a third party or not giving it a proper chance seems crazy - especially as the programme is free - sorry but I can't afford to see a dedicated therapist twice a week and doing it on my own hasn't worked for me so I will have to use my sponsor as a therapist. It clearly has worked for many people that seem incredibly content with their lives.
I wonder how where one is based influences views on 12 step programmes like AA.
For example, perhaps it is because I live in London and choose my meetings carefully, but I would say that most people I listen to at AA meetings, and nearly all of the most insightful of them, (I've only been going 23 days but that's enough for me to get what's going on there) don't believe in God at all and view the programme itself and the support network of individuals who follow it as their "higher power". They read a lot of sense in the big book but acknowledge the fact that it was written 80 years ago and so the language mirrors the times a little bit. Most will say that it is, in the main, a practical programme with value being derived from the following:
- it's really effective group therapy. It provides a very welcoming forum for fellow addicts to discuss how they're feeling, why drinking won't make it better and in fact will make it a LOT worse and how their lives have improved since quitting.
- in the early stages the sheer repetition of the message engrains in the participant's brains just how bad an idea drinking is and so is a very practical mental conditioning tool in preventing people picking up. While the brain is repairing itself and still unable to send sufficient signals of warning that drinking will be catastrophic, AA effectively does that job.
- it provides a framework for living a better life free of deeply engrained resentments, grudges, fears, hang ups etc by encouraging people to dig deep into their psyche and address the root cause of their alcoholism - by identifying the root cause and dealing with these negative emotions (apologising to those you have wronged or forgiving those who have wronged you).
- helps build self esteem by constantly pointing out the value, anecdotally, in giving to society rather than taking from it. Initially this is by helping other alcoholics recover, helping out at meetings etc but you will hear in meetings how this principle is employed by members to huge benefit in all facets of their lives. Being a helpful, giving person makes you happier and more fulfilled.
I've heard a lot of people say: if this programme was all about God then "He" would be enough to cure you (only one "step" needed!) and they would have a 100% success rate but it's not like that: it's the practical steps in the programme, group therapy and mental conditioning aspects of it that do that. Where was "He" when you got yourself to the point of suicide or death or incarceration?
Many of these people who don't believe in God have been sober for decades. And I hate to say it but the ones babbling on about "miracles" generally tend not to have much of insight to say that will help me move forward towards the end goal. For me, anyone that bleats on about God in relation to AA hasn't been to enough good meetings to realise that the spiritual side of it is only one element that some derive value from and that the real value is in the practical aspects.
I am going to meetings in rural Ireland this week. Ireland is a fairly religious place but that is changing due to the fact that it's pretty common knowledge that the catholic church, especially in Ireland, is an institution that is corrupt to the core and that has caused great suffering over many centuries. If I find that the meetings there are all focused on the spiritual side of it and they beat the Big Book like a bunch of zealous theologians I just won't go to those meetings as they would make me feel bad and discouraged (and possibly be a precursor to relapse). I'd like to think there is good practical insight in all meetings but that is a concern for me this week. Guess I will find out! Even if they are like that in a small town in Ireland I will still go to them in London as they are helping me tremendously. What's wrong with taking the bits that work for you and disregarding the bits that don't? Throwing the baby out with the bath water because of some received wisdom from a third party or not giving it a proper chance seems crazy - especially as the programme is free - sorry but I can't afford to see a dedicated therapist twice a week and doing it on my own hasn't worked for me so I will have to use my sponsor as a therapist. It clearly has worked for many people that seem incredibly content with their lives.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Sounds like you are being sold a bill of goods Brainsy. Most of what you decribe above is the fellowship of AA and random ideas from members and rehabs that have accumulated in recent years.
Quoting one item of Conference approved literature, " Sobriety, freedom from alcohol, through the teaching and practice of the 12 steps is the sole purpose of an AA group".
Other literature states that AA does not provide medical, psychiatric or counselling services. Instead it provides help to each other to work the program of recovery. If it ever started to offer group therapy - without qualified therapists - yikes!! I would be among the first to report them to the authorities.
What we have is a way to recover from alcoholism that worked with us. There is not a single idea you can come up with to change the program, avoid parts of it or whatever, that hasn't been tried before. Experience shows that everytime someone deviate to far from the path, they get drunk or worse.=What worked 80 years ago works just as well today. Spiritual principles do not date.
A good rule of thumb is if you here something that cannot be reconciled with the big book, then it is most likely someone's opinion and should be treated as such. Another good thing to do is to know the first 164 pages of the big book better than anyone, and you will soon be able to figure out who is giving you the facts about AA.
Like I said, AA is a one trick pony. If you are being fed some bright ideas in the fellowship, that's fine. something good might come of it. But it is not AA.
My sponsor told me when I was new that I would meet lots of different people in AA. Some I would like, some not, some their for social reasons and even some who were real alcoholics trying to recover. He told me to choose my friends carefully. The people that were able to help me had a message with depth and weight. They had worked the program of recovery, had life changing spiritual experiences as the result and were able to help me do the same. Permanent recovery was the goal and the result.
I can always tell the alternatve view. Messages like 90 in 90, meeting makers make it, take what you want and leave the rest, easy does it, it is not a race, you cannot recover because you will always be recovering, take your time to work the steps, these kinds of ideas are not AA and can kill you if you happen to be the real alcoholic the book talks about whose only hope is a spiritual experience.
Is that thinking out of date or still current. A professor of psychiatry and expert in this field stated that at the extreme end of the alcohol use disorder spectrum is a small group of chronic alcoholics for whom some kind of conversion experience is their only hope. There is nothing else that will work. If you are in that group, you better be careful who you are listening to. You would pay a high price for well meaning but dangerous advice.
But you may not have to make terms with the God bit. The book clearly states "whether or not you can recover on a non spritual basis will depend on the extent to which you have already lost the power to choose whether you will drink or not."
The fellowship is very open. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking, and if you are not too alcoholic, that may be the only requirement for sobrety too. But if you are like me, then a whole hearted acceptance of and effort in the program as set out in the book, may be your only chance of survival.
Quoting one item of Conference approved literature, " Sobriety, freedom from alcohol, through the teaching and practice of the 12 steps is the sole purpose of an AA group".
Other literature states that AA does not provide medical, psychiatric or counselling services. Instead it provides help to each other to work the program of recovery. If it ever started to offer group therapy - without qualified therapists - yikes!! I would be among the first to report them to the authorities.
What we have is a way to recover from alcoholism that worked with us. There is not a single idea you can come up with to change the program, avoid parts of it or whatever, that hasn't been tried before. Experience shows that everytime someone deviate to far from the path, they get drunk or worse.=What worked 80 years ago works just as well today. Spiritual principles do not date.
A good rule of thumb is if you here something that cannot be reconciled with the big book, then it is most likely someone's opinion and should be treated as such. Another good thing to do is to know the first 164 pages of the big book better than anyone, and you will soon be able to figure out who is giving you the facts about AA.
Like I said, AA is a one trick pony. If you are being fed some bright ideas in the fellowship, that's fine. something good might come of it. But it is not AA.
My sponsor told me when I was new that I would meet lots of different people in AA. Some I would like, some not, some their for social reasons and even some who were real alcoholics trying to recover. He told me to choose my friends carefully. The people that were able to help me had a message with depth and weight. They had worked the program of recovery, had life changing spiritual experiences as the result and were able to help me do the same. Permanent recovery was the goal and the result.
I can always tell the alternatve view. Messages like 90 in 90, meeting makers make it, take what you want and leave the rest, easy does it, it is not a race, you cannot recover because you will always be recovering, take your time to work the steps, these kinds of ideas are not AA and can kill you if you happen to be the real alcoholic the book talks about whose only hope is a spiritual experience.
Is that thinking out of date or still current. A professor of psychiatry and expert in this field stated that at the extreme end of the alcohol use disorder spectrum is a small group of chronic alcoholics for whom some kind of conversion experience is their only hope. There is nothing else that will work. If you are in that group, you better be careful who you are listening to. You would pay a high price for well meaning but dangerous advice.
But you may not have to make terms with the God bit. The book clearly states "whether or not you can recover on a non spritual basis will depend on the extent to which you have already lost the power to choose whether you will drink or not."
The fellowship is very open. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking, and if you are not too alcoholic, that may be the only requirement for sobrety too. But if you are like me, then a whole hearted acceptance of and effort in the program as set out in the book, may be your only chance of survival.
Member
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,602
Thanks Mike - I look at it all with healthy skepticism - the views of others, the writings in the Big Book etc. It would be absurd to think that any one person had all of the right answers straight off the bat - be it the original author or those that interpret his writings. If something doesn't resonate with me and sounds like hocus pocus then it makes me less likely to engage in the aspects of the programme that I find helpful and deep down believe to be the aspects that really confer the benefit. Having said that, I certainly have seen the benefit of having a bit of "blind faith" and persevering with meetings and the programme despite hearing things that sound like nonsense - you trudge through the good and the not so good and get to the real gems that help massively in realigning your thinking. I agree with seeking out the right people - but my point is that the ones that communicate the most powerful message to me are those who don't adopt a strict, black and white interpretation of the Big book - in the real world no one man ever has the answers. Things get refined, modernised, improved. Throw that out the window and there is no progress.
I would say that listening to people not able to articulate why the programme worked other than to say: "God decided it and it shall be so" makes me feel discouraged and more likely to drink. I also look at how they act and not just what they say - I see some people with many years of sobriety claiming to have "emotional sobriety" but are still seething with anger. I'm not buying the bit about emotional sobriety from them!
Anyway, each to their own. That's why I like this website - many sensible people advocate using lots of other tools in addition to AA - and that includes not incorporating the aspects of the programme that obviously make you feel bad and more likely to relapse.
I would say that listening to people not able to articulate why the programme worked other than to say: "God decided it and it shall be so" makes me feel discouraged and more likely to drink. I also look at how they act and not just what they say - I see some people with many years of sobriety claiming to have "emotional sobriety" but are still seething with anger. I'm not buying the bit about emotional sobriety from them!
Anyway, each to their own. That's why I like this website - many sensible people advocate using lots of other tools in addition to AA - and that includes not incorporating the aspects of the programme that obviously make you feel bad and more likely to relapse.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Originally Posted by Keto 
^
I think you would be very hard pressed to find a psychiatrist or anyone with professional medical training that would endorse aa like that as you mention
I think you would be very hard pressed to find a psychiatrist or anyone with professional medical training that would endorse aa like that as you mention
Echo everything Gottalife said
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Originally Posted by Briansy
Thanks Mike - I look at it all with healthy skepticism - the views of others, the writings in the Big Book etc. It would be absurd to think that any one person had all of the right answers straight off the bat - be it the original author or those that interpret his writings. If something doesn't resonate with me and sounds like hocus pocus then it makes me less likely to engage in the aspects of the programme that I find helpful and deep down believe to be the aspects that really confer the benefit. Having said that, I certainly have seen the benefit of having a bit of "blind faith" and persevering with meetings and the programme despite hearing things that sound like nonsense - you trudge through the good and the not so good and get to the real gems that help massively in realigning your thinking. I agree with seeking out the right people - but my point is that the ones that communicate the most powerful message to me are those who don't adopt a strict, black and white interpretation of the Big book - in the real world no one man ever has the answers. Things get refined, modernised, improved. Throw that out the window and there is no progress.
I would say that listening to people not able to articulate why the programme worked other than to say: "God decided it and it shall be so" makes me feel discouraged and more likely to drink. I also look at how they act and not just what they say - I see some people with many years of sobriety claiming to have "emotional sobriety" but are still seething with anger. I'm not buying the bit about emotional sobriety from them!
Anyway, each to their own. That's why I like this website - many sensible people advocate using lots of other tools in addition to AA - and that includes not incorporating the aspects of the programme that obviously make you feel bad and more likely to relapse.
I would say that listening to people not able to articulate why the programme worked other than to say: "God decided it and it shall be so" makes me feel discouraged and more likely to drink. I also look at how they act and not just what they say - I see some people with many years of sobriety claiming to have "emotional sobriety" but are still seething with anger. I'm not buying the bit about emotional sobriety from them!
Anyway, each to their own. That's why I like this website - many sensible people advocate using lots of other tools in addition to AA - and that includes not incorporating the aspects of the programme that obviously make you feel bad and more likely to relapse.
non-drinker
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 13,841
I consider SR to be a VERY valuable free resource, available 24/7 to anybody with access to an internet connection. I'm 9 years and 2 months sober today, no 12 step program involved!
Member
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,602
Originally Posted by August252015
Briansy... I have enjoyed engaging with you in your past 22 and some days sober. I also just reread your thread from late last year and alllll of the replies including yours, yesterday. This post echoes a lot of the bargaining and mental unwillingness that was pointed out to you from a lot of us then. I gently submit that at your awesome and very early sobriety you keep considering the experiences shared with you then, in terms of where you are now and where you want to go.
Hmm! Can you expand? You think I'm being too dismissive of the spiritual aspect of AA?
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
vulcan, I too would like to see more cohesive, widespread, non-profit, face to face options besides the 12 steps. If there's any I'd choose to "get behind" at this point it would be Refuge Recovery. It's still in its infancy but seems to have spread pretty far in a short amount of time. There aren't any meetings in my current city but you know what they say, be the change you want to see..
This thread is a great example of how, when expressing an interest in alternatives to AA, what you'll end up getting is a whole lot more information on AA. If you want to get beyond that, you really need to seek it out for yourself and keep an open mind. As with all things focus your energy on building the new rather than fighting the old.
This thread is a great example of how, when expressing an interest in alternatives to AA, what you'll end up getting is a whole lot more information on AA. If you want to get beyond that, you really need to seek it out for yourself and keep an open mind. As with all things focus your energy on building the new rather than fighting the old.
Member
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,602
Originally Posted by Briansy
Hi August,
Hmm! Can you expand? You think I'm being too dismissive of the spiritual aspect of AA?
Hmm! Can you expand? You think I'm being too dismissive of the spiritual aspect of AA?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,183
There are lots of alternative options, especially online options that are available anywhere. AA wasn't for me, but I live in a populated region that had many alternative meetings available - Lifering in particular, but in the years since I quit, a lot of Smart meetings have popped up too.
I think you're right, a big part of the dominance of AA is because it's so much larger than the alternatives, in terms of meeting availability. Part of the reason for that is that it's much older and more solidly established than the alternatives, but the other part is that it seems to work for many people.
I think you're right, a big part of the dominance of AA is because it's so much larger than the alternatives, in terms of meeting availability. Part of the reason for that is that it's much older and more solidly established than the alternatives, but the other part is that it seems to work for many people.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Tn
Posts: 3,043
Vulcan and Brainsy -
I respectfully suggest that you try to work the AA program (get a sponsor, work the 12 Steps with your sponsor, go to meetings, read the literature, do service work, etc.) and not try to figure it all out.
When I was new in recovery, I had to have all the answers and I wanted to know them immediately.
Then, at some point, I quit the debating society, got a sponsor (whom I still have today) and "worked the program".
It's been a good ride for me with no relapses.
I hope to pick up my 30 year chip next month.
I truly hope both of you get and stay sober.
For me, AA is the path I chose (with the help of the treatment center I attended).
The benefit of AA for me has been multifold.
I have gotten and stayed sober and it has given me a fairly normal life.
I can't complain.
Keep us posted with your efforts.
I respectfully suggest that you try to work the AA program (get a sponsor, work the 12 Steps with your sponsor, go to meetings, read the literature, do service work, etc.) and not try to figure it all out.
When I was new in recovery, I had to have all the answers and I wanted to know them immediately.
Then, at some point, I quit the debating society, got a sponsor (whom I still have today) and "worked the program".
It's been a good ride for me with no relapses.
I hope to pick up my 30 year chip next month.
I truly hope both of you get and stay sober.
For me, AA is the path I chose (with the help of the treatment center I attended).
The benefit of AA for me has been multifold.
I have gotten and stayed sober and it has given me a fairly normal life.
I can't complain.
Keep us posted with your efforts.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
I got sober because I got to a point I never wanted to return to so I resolved to quit forever, and I knew at the beginning I had hit bottom.
I realized as I read more that this aligns more with rational recovery, but I don't use RR.
I believe in the disease concept, possibly even the allergy model to an extent, but I dont believe AA is necessary for all: I believe it can be helpful but I don't believe a person can't stay sober without it.
I believe in the power of self-belief: does the person believe they can quit, or believe they can't? What you believe about yourself and the way you talk to yourself becomes your reality. also, this applies to thinking too much about drinking, because thoughts lead to action. Again, some RR.
I also think full immersion into sobriety, like AA prescribes, is necessary however that looks for you. Drinking will be on your mind. Eliminate drinking thoughts and replace with sobriety. Not "can I or can't I quit" but "now that I have quit, what will my life look like and how can I shape it to fit my dreams?"
and I think the power of the social group is huge in AA. I've missed that as I have isolated. Also: the concept of service is a good one. Takes you outside yourself to help others: this is rewarding intrinsically and it also gives a person something to do to fill drinking hours.
The message here is that you can quit if you want to, if you commit to it like a marriage or like you do waking up to go to work, and then with time your life evens out and drinking or not drinking ceases to be an issue: then you get to move on.
I realized as I read more that this aligns more with rational recovery, but I don't use RR.
I believe in the disease concept, possibly even the allergy model to an extent, but I dont believe AA is necessary for all: I believe it can be helpful but I don't believe a person can't stay sober without it.
I believe in the power of self-belief: does the person believe they can quit, or believe they can't? What you believe about yourself and the way you talk to yourself becomes your reality. also, this applies to thinking too much about drinking, because thoughts lead to action. Again, some RR.
I also think full immersion into sobriety, like AA prescribes, is necessary however that looks for you. Drinking will be on your mind. Eliminate drinking thoughts and replace with sobriety. Not "can I or can't I quit" but "now that I have quit, what will my life look like and how can I shape it to fit my dreams?"
and I think the power of the social group is huge in AA. I've missed that as I have isolated. Also: the concept of service is a good one. Takes you outside yourself to help others: this is rewarding intrinsically and it also gives a person something to do to fill drinking hours.
The message here is that you can quit if you want to, if you commit to it like a marriage or like you do waking up to go to work, and then with time your life evens out and drinking or not drinking ceases to be an issue: then you get to move on.
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