Higher Power and How to Stay Sober
Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 81
Originally Posted by tomsteve 
jotick, the great thing about AA is you can chose whatever you want as a HP as long as it makes sense to you.
if it doesnt make sense or stops making sense, you can change at any time
if it doesnt make sense or stops making sense, you can change at any time
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
I'm not staying sober using a moral code, or a strength.of will. I did not.do it alone, nor did i ever feel that wishing could make it so.
I did rwo types of rehab, 12 step in the early days, cognitive group, SMART recovery, and individual psychodynamic therapy. I don't want to play i am more of a drunk, bit I spent 43 years in a state ranging from barely functional to obliterated. Surrender to a higher power didnt work for me. Religious faith hasnt worked for me since i was a child of devout Catholic. I do not consider myself a DINO (Drunk in Namy Only). Had surrender to a higher power been the only option i might well have slipped back into addiction.
Sounds like drunks of the AA type means people who find that AA suits them as a recovery method, nothing more and nothing less. And thats fantastic. I get great joy in seeing people get out of and remain free of addiction no matter what method they use.
If someone is really struggling with using, defining or surrendering to a higher power, not entertaining the idea that other recovery methods might be more suitable is disingenuous. If AA resonates and is keeping someone sober than if it ain't broke don't fix it.
I did rwo types of rehab, 12 step in the early days, cognitive group, SMART recovery, and individual psychodynamic therapy. I don't want to play i am more of a drunk, bit I spent 43 years in a state ranging from barely functional to obliterated. Surrender to a higher power didnt work for me. Religious faith hasnt worked for me since i was a child of devout Catholic. I do not consider myself a DINO (Drunk in Namy Only). Had surrender to a higher power been the only option i might well have slipped back into addiction.
Sounds like drunks of the AA type means people who find that AA suits them as a recovery method, nothing more and nothing less. And thats fantastic. I get great joy in seeing people get out of and remain free of addiction no matter what method they use.
If someone is really struggling with using, defining or surrendering to a higher power, not entertaining the idea that other recovery methods might be more suitable is disingenuous. If AA resonates and is keeping someone sober than if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
i would prefer to try and help people understand the HP thing rather than just tell them to look elsewhere.they are asking about it and trying to gain some understanding- not what other methods to look at. im sure you do the same with your recovery methods when questions are asked, which ive read your posts doing so- doesnt read like ya just tell people to look elsewhere- you take the time to explain.
just like we of AA do.
it might be wise for ya to read the OP again to get an understanding of what the OP was looking for help with- the OP is wanting to believe in a God or HP.
you may have missed it,MM, so i'll post it again from the OP:
"Also I am wanting to believe in God or a Higher Power and don't know the answer. I feel I have find that somehow. I am terrified of dying in a Godless universe,..."
why in the world would any of us try and push this person away from God or a HP when theyre trying to find it?
other than doing the work of a LP.
just like we of AA do.
it might be wise for ya to read the OP again to get an understanding of what the OP was looking for help with- the OP is wanting to believe in a God or HP.
you may have missed it,MM, so i'll post it again from the OP:
"Also I am wanting to believe in God or a Higher Power and don't know the answer. I feel I have find that somehow. I am terrified of dying in a Godless universe,..."
why in the world would any of us try and push this person away from God or a HP when theyre trying to find it?
other than doing the work of a LP.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Chicago
Posts: 605
I don't think anyone was trying to push the op away from believing in a higher power.
I, and others, are saying that there are other options if that one is not working for him.
Getting sober for me was an overwhelming process at times, and struggling with something additional would have made matters worse.
I actually believe in a higher power. But I don't believe that higher power takes control of my life to make it better. That is my responsibility.
But that is my belief not fact. I think it boils down to if it works for you then you should stick with it, but if it doesn't you should seek other methods.
Just my .02
I, and others, are saying that there are other options if that one is not working for him.
Getting sober for me was an overwhelming process at times, and struggling with something additional would have made matters worse.
I actually believe in a higher power. But I don't believe that higher power takes control of my life to make it better. That is my responsibility.
But that is my belief not fact. I think it boils down to if it works for you then you should stick with it, but if it doesn't you should seek other methods.
Just my .02
Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Charleston WV
Posts: 10
I have found what I call a safe comfort zone or warm blanket type feeling staying sober. Not at first but not long after. It is, I guess, like a natural feeling where I am so relieved that I don't have to worry or be afraid of myself and the anxiety of arranging everything around drinking. I had to dig deep to find this then it seemed easy.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,065
I think people get so worked up about a higher power being a deity.
When you are a broken shell, admitting that you have a problem, that what has ruled your world is the "power" of chaos and destruction, what is a higher "power" than that?
The Power of love, for ones self and fellow man
The Power of strength, your own and the strength that lies in numbers of like minds
The Power of hope, for a better tomorrow, for you, for those you love and for all
The Power of change, your ability to change and to see the world through new eyes.
When we look at the atrocities taking place on our streets, the devastation on a global scale, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, et al., we still push forward in life - because we believe in humankind as a whole. That's a power we can all agree on. To view recovery through religious eyes only or to feel that religion is the path to recovery, is incredibly short sighted. To view it as a way to again be made whole and not just rejoin but be a positive, contributing force to good - I think that is a pretty powerful higher power to seek. Absolutely at first, higher power in recovery meant God, there is/was a huge religious aspect to the program, today as society has evolved, the concept of a higher power is more conceptualised and embracing that, not only increases the reach and scope of people the programs can help, but it improves the process. It's almost like that "surrender" should now be moved to after you have taken a thorough inventory, so that you know who you are and what your higher power - in a conceptualised vision is.
When you are a broken shell, admitting that you have a problem, that what has ruled your world is the "power" of chaos and destruction, what is a higher "power" than that?
The Power of love, for ones self and fellow man
The Power of strength, your own and the strength that lies in numbers of like minds
The Power of hope, for a better tomorrow, for you, for those you love and for all
The Power of change, your ability to change and to see the world through new eyes.
When we look at the atrocities taking place on our streets, the devastation on a global scale, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, et al., we still push forward in life - because we believe in humankind as a whole. That's a power we can all agree on. To view recovery through religious eyes only or to feel that religion is the path to recovery, is incredibly short sighted. To view it as a way to again be made whole and not just rejoin but be a positive, contributing force to good - I think that is a pretty powerful higher power to seek. Absolutely at first, higher power in recovery meant God, there is/was a huge religious aspect to the program, today as society has evolved, the concept of a higher power is more conceptualised and embracing that, not only increases the reach and scope of people the programs can help, but it improves the process. It's almost like that "surrender" should now be moved to after you have taken a thorough inventory, so that you know who you are and what your higher power - in a conceptualised vision is.
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
Originally Posted by ljc267
I don't think anyone was trying to push the op away from believing in a higher power.
I, and others, are saying that there are other options if that one is not working for him.
Getting sober for me was an overwhelming process at times, and struggling with something additional would have made matters worse.
I actually believe in a higher power. But I don't believe that higher power takes control of my life to make it better. That is my responsibility.
But that is my belief not fact. I think it boils down to if it works for you then you should stick with it, but if it doesn't you should seek other methods.
Just my .02
I, and others, are saying that there are other options if that one is not working for him.
Getting sober for me was an overwhelming process at times, and struggling with something additional would have made matters worse.
I actually believe in a higher power. But I don't believe that higher power takes control of my life to make it better. That is my responsibility.
But that is my belief not fact. I think it boils down to if it works for you then you should stick with it, but if it doesn't you should seek other methods.
Just my .02
There are plenty of folks here that can help someone surrender to their higher power in AA. Another valid strategy is finding a different recovery program that doesn't require surrendering to a higher power.
This thread is in the general alcoholism forum. If it were meant to be solely a discussion on AA, perhaps it should be moved to the Alcoholism - 12 Step Support forum.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
I’m very new to this, only 5 days sober and due to attend first AA meeting in a few days. I’m not religious and have been thinking about what would be my higher power. Is it possible for it to be the ones you love, your life as you want it to be, your goals and how to be a better person? I’m hoping that it can be as focusing on this at this early part of my recovery is helping me through. I hope that you are ok and I’m sending love and good thoughts your way x
Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1
“Yes, we of agnostic temperament have had these thoughts and experiences. Let us make haste to reassure you. We found that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and express even a willingness to believe in a Power greater than ourselves, we commenced to get results, even though it was impossible for any of us to fully define or comprehend that Power, which is God.
Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need to consider another's conception of God. Our own conception, however inadequate, was sufficient to make the approach and to effect a contact with Him. As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a Creative Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of things, we began to be possessed of a new sense of power and direction, provided we took other simple steps. We found that God does not make too hard terms with those who seek Him. To us, the Realm of Spirit is broad, roomy, all inclusive; never exclusive or forbidding to those who earnestly seek. It is open, we believe, to all men.“ Big Book 4th ed. Page 46, We Agnostics.
Therefore, even a willingness will suffice, initially. Then one must make what Danish philosopher, Søren Kierkegaard termed a “leap of faith”.
Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need to consider another's conception of God. Our own conception, however inadequate, was sufficient to make the approach and to effect a contact with Him. As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a Creative Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of things, we began to be possessed of a new sense of power and direction, provided we took other simple steps. We found that God does not make too hard terms with those who seek Him. To us, the Realm of Spirit is broad, roomy, all inclusive; never exclusive or forbidding to those who earnestly seek. It is open, we believe, to all men.“ Big Book 4th ed. Page 46, We Agnostics.
Therefore, even a willingness will suffice, initially. Then one must make what Danish philosopher, Søren Kierkegaard termed a “leap of faith”.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Us
Posts: 1,366
I never really understood how a belief in a HP was supposed to stop me from poisoning myself with alcohol. I got better when I made the decision to stop drinking. And my life is so much better for it.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 36
In Jan you wrote, " ... I feel pretty pessimistic about continuing to be able to manage or fight this disease ..." Have you ever read the tenth step promise? Did you do the first nine steps? In steps ten, "We have ceased fighting anyone or anything even alcohol". This isn't a program to continue the fight.
When I find myself fighting, I have more looking into steps 1-9. Specifically, it's my lack of humility (pride) that causes' problems.
When I find myself fighting, I have more looking into steps 1-9. Specifically, it's my lack of humility (pride) that causes' problems.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.
surrender isnt a bad thing,sky. it sure helped me and im sure God was sayin,"its about time. NOW i can help you."
surrender isnt a bad thing,sky. it sure helped me and im sure God was sayin,"its about time. NOW i can help you."
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
Sky, how are you treating and managing your depression itself?
Are you working or have you worked in therapy and/or with medication? Mindfulness practices? Living well? Being kind to yourself?
Are you working or have you worked in therapy and/or with medication? Mindfulness practices? Living well? Being kind to yourself?
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Sorry to hear you are depressed at the moment. I have met a small number of people in AA who suffered from depression, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. It did kinda clarify my own ideas about what I was experienceing though.
Maybe there is a solution in therapy, or exercise or diet or self help books, or through a doctor that will dig you out of your depression.
It is also a fact that depression is the number one symptom of untreated alcoholism. It doesn't sound like that would be an issue given you have been working the steps, going to meetings, and sponsoring. You are in all three sides of the circle triangle - recovery, service, unity. Alcoholics who are in all three never relapse.
Yet you are having this problem about God. Me, I started the process with no belief but I was willing if I saw some evidence. That came to me as I worked through the steps. I had some experiences upon which I could base my faith. I can see also, at times I can be blocked from that Power through self will. That usually manifests as doing something I shouldn't, or not doing something I should. It truns out the light so to speak. In the context of the steps the two main things that can block me are a secret kept in step five, or an unmade amends. There is nothing like one of those to corrode away my serenity.
So, remebering that the spiritual malady and depression are hard to tell apart, perhaps it would be worth reviewing your daily practice of the steps to see if there is anything there that may be blocking you.
Maybe there is a solution in therapy, or exercise or diet or self help books, or through a doctor that will dig you out of your depression.
It is also a fact that depression is the number one symptom of untreated alcoholism. It doesn't sound like that would be an issue given you have been working the steps, going to meetings, and sponsoring. You are in all three sides of the circle triangle - recovery, service, unity. Alcoholics who are in all three never relapse.
Yet you are having this problem about God. Me, I started the process with no belief but I was willing if I saw some evidence. That came to me as I worked through the steps. I had some experiences upon which I could base my faith. I can see also, at times I can be blocked from that Power through self will. That usually manifests as doing something I shouldn't, or not doing something I should. It truns out the light so to speak. In the context of the steps the two main things that can block me are a secret kept in step five, or an unmade amends. There is nothing like one of those to corrode away my serenity.
So, remebering that the spiritual malady and depression are hard to tell apart, perhaps it would be worth reviewing your daily practice of the steps to see if there is anything there that may be blocking you.
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
Originally Posted by Intothebluesky
I'm seeing a psychiatrist and counselor, working with a sponsor and sponsee, depression is just pretty severe at the moment, hard to break the spell on a daily basis. Right now i'm depressed.
I was seriously depressed for about 3 weeks after rehab (once the pink cloud wore off), but then my medication started to work as my body healed from the alcohol. AA got me out of the house and interacting with people again, which was helpful. I found a dual diagnosis cognitive therapy and psychodynamic therapy more helpful for the depression. YMMV.
If you have gone through depression before, you know that it eventually ends. Try and hang in there until then. If you're feeling hopeless, please make sure you have someone to call. We are always here as well.
My depression has a seasonal component, and it lifts around the Equinox and sets in hard after New Years. It wasn't nearly as dense this year, probably because sober. Medication also works better if it's not competing with drugs and/or alcohol.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
I don't understand when I hear you need a higher power to stay sober, because you do not. This belief takes away from our own strength. If you are sober it is because you chose to get sober.
I'm seeing a psychiatrist and counselor, working with a sponsor and sponsee, depression is just pretty severe at the moment, hard to break the spell on a daily basis. Right now i'm depressed.
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