Higher Power and How to Stay Sober
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: fort worth tx
Posts: 1,373
"Walk by faith, not by sight"
Just don't drink. For me if I ever drink again, my faith will die with me. So sobriety and faith go hand in hand. There's no distinction.
Treat your depression and keep the faith. That's how you got sober and stay sober for 8 years. Through faith. Don't ever give up on that.
I hope you have good days ahead. Just keep the faith.
Just don't drink. For me if I ever drink again, my faith will die with me. So sobriety and faith go hand in hand. There's no distinction.
Treat your depression and keep the faith. That's how you got sober and stay sober for 8 years. Through faith. Don't ever give up on that.
I hope you have good days ahead. Just keep the faith.
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
Originally Posted by golfreggie 
PS, I am not a computer type so I don't know why my attempt at quoting a portion of MindfulMan's post is not coming out the way other quotes show. Perhaps I will learn, ICK!
I used to moderate a board that used the same software.
;-)
Carry on then.
PS: It's not the fault of AA claiming to have all the answers, it's people's perception of what AA has to be before they even really investigate it...and part of that is the whole higher power jazz.
I've known people who keep their sobriety with the help of their surrender to their higher power and others that get and remain sober without doing so. Or faith, for that matter.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
I was a stone Atheist. There is no god. Read all the atheist philosophy. I agreed with the Marxist notion at one point in time that religion was "the opium of the masses". On a good day maybe I was just a hardcore agnostic. I can't explain to you exactly what happened that made this change. My entire life I had though this way. I had tried to get sober with this mindset and I could never quite get the AA program because of this. I was told that my higher power could be the rooms, the doorknob, maybe another person in recover for a while, etc; but the thing they always emphasized was that I just have to keep going to meetings.
Ultimately I failed in that and went back out again. I got licked so badly by alcohol and drugs my last time around that really, I simply surrendered. We all have our own bottom. Some people I know in the rooms with great sobriety didn't really have to go down too far. They kept their house, car, family etc. and they got sober. Others were suicidal and on the brink of alcoholic insanity like myself. For some their bottom is death. That sounds harsh. It is harsh, but it is true. I was told that it's a program for people who want it not people who need it. I believe in the truth of statement today. I reached a point in my life where I simply became open to the idea of the higher power. For me that little lack of prejudice against spiritual belief, coupled with my desperate willingness made it possible. Then I simply "came to believe".
Today I have faith in God, and I feel that he has been there my entire life, I just refused to accept him because of an intellectual pride. I related heavily to Bill W. when I read the big book. He was an agnostic as well, and someone who took pride in their belief (or lack thereof)? For me the only thing that I can recommend is to not be prejudiced to having a belief in a higher power, and keep going to meetings (and hey, why not try reading the "Chapter to the Agnostic" in the Big Book?). Some lean more heavily on the spiritual aspects of the program then others, and there are others still who are quite secular who have good recovery. For me believe in God simply works. Remember that the higher power you may come to believe in is of your understanding. It's however you prefer to think of him. God manifests himself in different ways to people. Take a cursory glance at the myriad religions of the world to understand what I mean. Good luck to you my friend.
Ultimately I failed in that and went back out again. I got licked so badly by alcohol and drugs my last time around that really, I simply surrendered. We all have our own bottom. Some people I know in the rooms with great sobriety didn't really have to go down too far. They kept their house, car, family etc. and they got sober. Others were suicidal and on the brink of alcoholic insanity like myself. For some their bottom is death. That sounds harsh. It is harsh, but it is true. I was told that it's a program for people who want it not people who need it. I believe in the truth of statement today. I reached a point in my life where I simply became open to the idea of the higher power. For me that little lack of prejudice against spiritual belief, coupled with my desperate willingness made it possible. Then I simply "came to believe".
Today I have faith in God, and I feel that he has been there my entire life, I just refused to accept him because of an intellectual pride. I related heavily to Bill W. when I read the big book. He was an agnostic as well, and someone who took pride in their belief (or lack thereof)? For me the only thing that I can recommend is to not be prejudiced to having a belief in a higher power, and keep going to meetings (and hey, why not try reading the "Chapter to the Agnostic" in the Big Book?). Some lean more heavily on the spiritual aspects of the program then others, and there are others still who are quite secular who have good recovery. For me believe in God simply works. Remember that the higher power you may come to believe in is of your understanding. It's however you prefer to think of him. God manifests himself in different ways to people. Take a cursory glance at the myriad religions of the world to understand what I mean. Good luck to you my friend.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
AA seems to work best for those alcoholics for whom self reliance has failed completely. I often read of millions of "people" getting sober on their own power and that comes as no surprise. However where they sat on the alcohol use disorder spectrum is never clearly stated. People for whom alcohol is a problem possibly have more ability to sober up than those for whom alcohol is their solution.
In my experience in and around AA and associated community organisations, I have only ever met one alcoholic of my type, with long term recovery, who did it on his own, and he wished he had used AA, but had very compelling reasons for not doing so. I have literally seen dozens of chronic alcoholics die trying to prove they can fix themselves. Before claiming millions of recoveries, it would be helpful to clearly define exactly what it is that is beong recovered from.
TomSteve made a great statement, "faith without works is dead". The works being talked about is self sacrifice and service to others, absolutely not in my selfish alcoholic nature.
The role of the HP in the AA program is, through working those steps, we become connected to Him in a way I never would have thought possible, and the resulting spiritual experience(s) cause a substantial psychic change so that I now get pleasure from self sacrifice and service. A complete personality change.
So God really does keep me sober. I keep doing my works because that is now my natural way (Thanks to Him), and He keeps doing His part.
In my experience in and around AA and associated community organisations, I have only ever met one alcoholic of my type, with long term recovery, who did it on his own, and he wished he had used AA, but had very compelling reasons for not doing so. I have literally seen dozens of chronic alcoholics die trying to prove they can fix themselves. Before claiming millions of recoveries, it would be helpful to clearly define exactly what it is that is beong recovered from.
TomSteve made a great statement, "faith without works is dead". The works being talked about is self sacrifice and service to others, absolutely not in my selfish alcoholic nature.
The role of the HP in the AA program is, through working those steps, we become connected to Him in a way I never would have thought possible, and the resulting spiritual experience(s) cause a substantial psychic change so that I now get pleasure from self sacrifice and service. A complete personality change.
So God really does keep me sober. I keep doing my works because that is now my natural way (Thanks to Him), and He keeps doing His part.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Chicago
Posts: 605
Personally, we don't give ourselves enough credit. WE keep ourselves sober not anyone/anything else. Now that's not to say that there are others/higher power that contribute to us getting and staying sober but the choice is ours.
I don't understand when I hear you need a higher power to stay sober, because you do not. This belief takes away from our own strength. If you are sober it is because you chose to get sober.
I do believe faith can help. In fact for some it may make the difference but it isn't required.
I don't understand when I hear you need a higher power to stay sober, because you do not. This belief takes away from our own strength. If you are sober it is because you chose to get sober.
I do believe faith can help. In fact for some it may make the difference but it isn't required.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: PRINCETON, TX
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by Gottalife
AA seems to work best for those alcoholics for whom self reliance has failed completely. I often read of millions of "people" getting sober on their own power and that comes as no surprise. However where they sat on the alcohol use disorder spectrum is never clearly stated. People for whom alcohol is a problem possibly have more ability to sober up than those for whom alcohol is their solution.
In my experience in and around AA and associated community organisations, I have only ever met one alcoholic of my type, with long term recovery, who did it on his own, and he wished he had used AA, but had very compelling reasons for not doing so. I have literally seen dozens of chronic alcoholics die trying to prove they can fix themselves. Before claiming millions of recoveries, it would be helpful to clearly define exactly what it is that is beong recovered from.
TomSteve made a great statement, "faith without works is dead". The works being talked about is self sacrifice and service to others, absolutely not in my selfish alcoholic nature.
The role of the HP in the AA program is, through working those steps, we become connected to Him in a way I never would have thought possible, and the resulting spiritual experience(s) cause a substantial psychic change so that I now get pleasure from self sacrifice and service. A complete personality change.
So God really does keep me sober. I keep doing my works because that is now my natural way (Thanks to Him), and He keeps doing His part.
In my experience in and around AA and associated community organisations, I have only ever met one alcoholic of my type, with long term recovery, who did it on his own, and he wished he had used AA, but had very compelling reasons for not doing so. I have literally seen dozens of chronic alcoholics die trying to prove they can fix themselves. Before claiming millions of recoveries, it would be helpful to clearly define exactly what it is that is beong recovered from.
TomSteve made a great statement, "faith without works is dead". The works being talked about is self sacrifice and service to others, absolutely not in my selfish alcoholic nature.
The role of the HP in the AA program is, through working those steps, we become connected to Him in a way I never would have thought possible, and the resulting spiritual experience(s) cause a substantial psychic change so that I now get pleasure from self sacrifice and service. A complete personality change.
So God really does keep me sober. I keep doing my works because that is now my natural way (Thanks to Him), and He keeps doing His part.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: PRINCETON, TX
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by ljc267
Personally, we don't give ourselves enough credit. WE keep ourselves sober not anyone/anything else. Now that's not to say that there are others/higher power that contribute to us getting and staying sober but the choice is ours.
I don't understand when I hear you need a higher power to stay sober, because you do not. This belief takes away from our own strength. If you are sober it is because you chose to get sober.
I do believe faith can help. In fact for some it may make the difference but it isn't required.
I don't understand when I hear you need a higher power to stay sober, because you do not. This belief takes away from our own strength. If you are sober it is because you chose to get sober.
I do believe faith can help. In fact for some it may make the difference but it isn't required.
Last edited by golfreggie; 03-21-2018 at 09:52 AM. Reason: added a word
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Chicago
Posts: 605
Originally Posted by golfreggie
Stimulating topic, but to remind everyone that in the forward to the second edition (page XXI) it states in general words that AA doesn't claim to have a monopoly on the solution. It would be well worth a read. If AA claimed to be the ONLY way, I would probably not have given it a chance, and perhaps would be dead now. In my case, I did find God, and will never apologize for my belief, but of course each person has a personal decision, or journey, to make along the way. I pray for all alcoholics to find the answer they seek. But, if their way fails, and you are still alive, come try AA out, you never know!
I wasn't suggesting nor would I ask you to apologize for believing in a higher power. If it works for you then it works and that's great. My only issue is when people say it is the only way to achieve sobriety. It just isn't.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,601
You cannot force yourself to believe in a higher power. It has taken me close to 3 years of sobriety to begin to trust and rely and BELIEVE in God. And there are still moments when I don't. It's an experience you have to have, and you can't rush it. Hang tight, be still, you'll get there.
XO
XO
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
If your recovery method was solely or primarily 12 Step and it's kept you sober for some length of time, it will have worked for you. Saying that it works for alcoholics of "your type" basically says, again, that it works for you.
Your experience will also present a selection bias, as most if not all of the people you know who are sober will be those you've met in your organization. You won't see or know those who drank for years, finally got there is a problem, got treatment, individual therapy, or whatever but stayed sober.
This is a selection bias, and the fact that the recovery industry and legal system is dominated by 12 Step, as it was the only game in town for a number of years makes this fact seem like a tautology to many.
AA is a wonderful method that works for many, perhaps most, and utilizing a surrender to a higher power is possibly the central reason why it works for people.. But, again, not for all.
To go back to the OP, I will leave it to the 12 Steppers to help someone find and use their higher power. Using another method of recovery that does not require the surrender to a higher power might be a better solution for someone grappling with the concept, particularly if they have really tried the steps and found that they don't resonate.
My experience is that faith in God has not been essential to my recovery. I have known some that use religious faith as an essential tool in their recovery, and others, like myself, that do not.
Your experience will also present a selection bias, as most if not all of the people you know who are sober will be those you've met in your organization. You won't see or know those who drank for years, finally got there is a problem, got treatment, individual therapy, or whatever but stayed sober.
This is a selection bias, and the fact that the recovery industry and legal system is dominated by 12 Step, as it was the only game in town for a number of years makes this fact seem like a tautology to many.
AA is a wonderful method that works for many, perhaps most, and utilizing a surrender to a higher power is possibly the central reason why it works for people.. But, again, not for all.
To go back to the OP, I will leave it to the 12 Steppers to help someone find and use their higher power. Using another method of recovery that does not require the surrender to a higher power might be a better solution for someone grappling with the concept, particularly if they have really tried the steps and found that they don't resonate.
My experience is that faith in God has not been essential to my recovery. I have known some that use religious faith as an essential tool in their recovery, and others, like myself, that do not.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,601
Originally Posted by MindfulMan
If your recovery method was solely or primarily 12 Step and it's kept you sober for some length of time, it will have worked for you. Saying that it works for alcoholics of "your type" basically says, again, that it works for you.
Your experience will also present a selection bias, as most if not all of the people you know who are sober will be those you've met in your organization. You won't see or know those who drank for years, finally got there is a problem, got treatment, individual therapy, or whatever but stayed sober.
This is a selection bias, and the fact that the recovery industry and legal system is dominated by 12 Step, as it was the only game in town for a number of years makes this fact seem like a tautology to many.
AA is a wonderful method that works for many, perhaps most, and utilizing a surrender to a higher power is possibly the central reason why it works for people.. But, again, not for all.
To go back to the OP, I will leave it to the 12 Steppers to help someone find and use their higher power. Using another method of recovery that does not require the surrender to a higher power might be a better solution for someone grappling with the concept, particularly if they have really tried the steps and found that they don't resonate.
My experience is that faith in God has not been essential to my recovery. I have known some that use religious faith as an essential tool in their recovery, and others, like myself, that do not.
Your experience will also present a selection bias, as most if not all of the people you know who are sober will be those you've met in your organization. You won't see or know those who drank for years, finally got there is a problem, got treatment, individual therapy, or whatever but stayed sober.
This is a selection bias, and the fact that the recovery industry and legal system is dominated by 12 Step, as it was the only game in town for a number of years makes this fact seem like a tautology to many.
AA is a wonderful method that works for many, perhaps most, and utilizing a surrender to a higher power is possibly the central reason why it works for people.. But, again, not for all.
To go back to the OP, I will leave it to the 12 Steppers to help someone find and use their higher power. Using another method of recovery that does not require the surrender to a higher power might be a better solution for someone grappling with the concept, particularly if they have really tried the steps and found that they don't resonate.
My experience is that faith in God has not been essential to my recovery. I have known some that use religious faith as an essential tool in their recovery, and others, like myself, that do not.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by ljc267
I don't understand when I hear you need a higher power to stay sober, because you do not. This belief takes away from our own strength. If you are sober it is because you chose to get sober.
and am one strong human- strong enough to tackle a 2 1/2 year battle with cancer, the suicide of friends, death of friends, being my mothers caregiver and hold her hand when she took her last breath, plus a LOT more.
chosing to get sober was NOT enough for me.
dry drunks suck.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: PRINCETON, TX
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by ljc267
My statement wasn't directed at AA, because many other organizations/churches express the same belief that you can't get sober without God/higher power.
I wasn't suggesting nor would I ask you to apologize for believing in a higher power. If it works for you then it works and that's great. My only issue is when people say it is the only way to achieve sobriety. It just isn't.
I wasn't suggesting nor would I ask you to apologize for believing in a higher power. If it works for you then it works and that's great. My only issue is when people say it is the only way to achieve sobriety. It just isn't.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Chicago
Posts: 605
Originally Posted by tomsteve
i NEEDED and still need a HP.
and am one strong human- strong enough to tackle a 2 1/2 year battle with cancer, the suicide of friends, death of friends, being my mothers caregiver and hold her hand when she took her last breath, plus a LOT more.
chosing to get sober was NOT enough for me.
dry drunks suck.
and am one strong human- strong enough to tackle a 2 1/2 year battle with cancer, the suicide of friends, death of friends, being my mothers caregiver and hold her hand when she took her last breath, plus a LOT more.
chosing to get sober was NOT enough for me.
dry drunks suck.
If that is what you need and it works that is great. It was not what I needed and it works.
fwiw, my mother passed away when I was a young man. I stood there and watched as they put her in the body bag. It was devastating and probably contributed to my alcoholism progressing. Imo, that was my issue. I didn't deal with those emotions and used alcohol to numb the pain. Finally, I chose to stop drinking and deal with my issues sober.
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
Originally Posted by tomsteve
chosing to get sober was NOT enough for me.
dry drunks suck.
dry drunks suck.
I think someone can be sober without working the steps and surrendering to a higher power.
Originally Posted by tomsteve
some types of alcoholics need a HP to get sober.
some types dont.
its that simple.
some types dont.
its that simple.
I’ve always wondered about that big book phrase “Alcoholics of our type.” What is “our type?”
Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 81
Originally Posted by Intothebluesky
Alright i am in a low mood right now and i'm just going to write out some stuff. I feel pretty pessimistic about continuing to be able to manage or fight this disease and stay sober. My depressions can have me feeling almost suicidal sometimes. And this is with 8 years sober and a safe living situation and healthy body.
I feel bleak about the future: aging, sickness and death. How can I stay sober with serious illness when it is a struggle even now?
Also I am wanting to believe in God or a Higher Power and don't know the answer. I feel I have find that somehow. I am terrified of dying in a Godless universe, i feel i just have this raw fear about life and death and existence in general. Maybe there is a God, i don't know. I get disturbed all the time when reading about tragic accidents and events.
How to be at peace with life? I have all this fear and disturbance and i don't see how anyone can be at peace with the horror of what happens in the world.
I feel bleak about the future: aging, sickness and death. How can I stay sober with serious illness when it is a struggle even now?
Also I am wanting to believe in God or a Higher Power and don't know the answer. I feel I have find that somehow. I am terrified of dying in a Godless universe, i feel i just have this raw fear about life and death and existence in general. Maybe there is a God, i don't know. I get disturbed all the time when reading about tragic accidents and events.
How to be at peace with life? I have all this fear and disturbance and i don't see how anyone can be at peace with the horror of what happens in the world.
I’m very new to this, only 5 days sober and due to attend first AA meeting in a few days. I’m not religious and have been thinking about what would be my higher power. Is it possible for it to be the ones you love, your life as you want it to be, your goals and how to be a better person? I’m hoping that it can be as focusing on this at this early part of my recovery is helping me through. I hope that you are ok and I’m sending love and good thoughts your way x
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: GA
Posts: 700
Wow what a great topic and thread, thanks bluesky! I love all the responses. I stopped believing in God after being raised in a strict Christian home, graduating from Christian high school, etc. I am gradually giving the idea another chance, really just a fake it til ya make it thing for now. I do like the terms "Good Orderly Direction" and "spirit of the universe". Thank you for all the thoughtful replies.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by MindfulMan
r.
I’ve always wondered about that big book phrase “Alcoholics of our type.” What is “our type?”
I’ve always wondered about that big book phrase “Alcoholics of our type.” What is “our type?”
"the type with whom other methods had failed completely."
i think it would also include types described here:
If a mere code of morals or a better philosophy of life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us would have recovered long ago. But we found that such codes and philosophies did not save us, no matter how much we tried. We could wish to be moral, we could wish to be philosophically comforted, in fact, we could will these things with all our might, but the needed power wasn't there. Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by Jotick
Hey there
I’m very new to this, only 5 days sober and due to attend first AA meeting in a few days. I’m not religious and have been thinking about what would be my higher power. Is it possible for it to be the ones you love, your life as you want it to be, your goals and how to be a better person? I’m hoping that it can be as focusing on this at this early part of my recovery is helping me through. I hope that you are ok and I’m sending love and good thoughts your way x
I’m very new to this, only 5 days sober and due to attend first AA meeting in a few days. I’m not religious and have been thinking about what would be my higher power. Is it possible for it to be the ones you love, your life as you want it to be, your goals and how to be a better person? I’m hoping that it can be as focusing on this at this early part of my recovery is helping me through. I hope that you are ok and I’m sending love and good thoughts your way x
if it doesnt make sense or stops making sense, you can change at any time
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