time4change79

Well, it looks like I have fallen off the wagon. I quite drinking a few months ago, but started periodically drinking as a way to go to sleep.

I'm a non-traditional student that is just one quarter from graduation. Between work and school, it's been hard to stay sober. My job is absolutely awful (I work in commission based retail in a very bad part of town), but I have to keep it for another few months, and since I work, sometimes the only way I can prepare for an exam is by getting up at 5am and hitting the books until class starts at 10am with a 45 minute drive in the mix. Since I quit drinking, I've had issues with insomnia. The decision between having a couple beers or going on 4 hours sleep before an exam has been a thorn in my side this entire quarter.

Well, doing this once a week turned into every few day, which developed into drinking every night again.

I don't have a regular doctor, and the clinic will only prescribe sleep aids like ambien or lunesta. They won't give a 15 count of Ativan which is what I asked for. I have pretty severe tinnitus, and I used to take the smallest dosage of Ativan once in a blue moon to get to sleep. We're talking about a 15 count lasting me like six months. I prefer Ativan over the non-narcotic stuff because I DON't like getting high. That's the funny part. Ambien makes me feel like a zombie the next day, and l had a sleepwalking experience on Lunesta where I even when outside in the middle of the night with absolutely zero memory of it. I won't take either of those drugs, or the anti-psychotics that are popularly prescribed in low dosages for sleep aid these days, but that's all the clinic will give me because we have so many pill-heads around here. Who on earth would ask for Ativan to get loaded?

So here I am having anxiety and nigh sweats on my first night sober in more than a week. It sure feels like I picked a bad time in my life to quit drinking, but there is probably never a "right" time. I can't wait to be done with school and go back to just working 40 -45 hours a week again. This 70+ hours between work and school is killing me.

Any advice abut the sleeping stuff would be welcome, but I'm mostly righting this just to rant. I'm angry that I'm back in this situation. I hope the withdrawal will be very fast this time. I think that I was experiencing the whole dry drunk thing for about the first 3 weeks when I quit a few months ago. I was absolutely awful to my wife about 5 days in for about 2 weeks straight.

anxiousrock

I feel for you. Going to school and still working is a really tough thing to do. It would be nice if you could just quit your job for a while until you complete school. I’m sure that would alleviate a lot of stress.
In terms of sleep, have you tried something simple like melatonin to help you relax and sleep better?
I find it works for me as before I had horrible insomnia. Sometimes I still do.
Best of luck to you, I hope you find something that works.

Vinificent

Drinking in order to get to sleep quickly was a huge issue for me as well, and honestly it came down to removing all alcohol from my house, so that when I started to become anxious about not being able to fall asleep it simply wasn't there to use as a crutch. It helped when I started to give myself "permission", mentally, to not sleep. I would take a sleep aid and hope for the best, but told myself if it didn't happen it was OK...I could sleep tomorrow. Once I got into a routine (take a sleep aid at a specific time and start reading) sleep now comes within 10 minutes, and I an able to get a solid 6 to 7 hours a night. The important thing is to use a sleep aid that is not alcohol because alcohol disrupts, not assists sleep. Best to you!

DayTrader

I've never seen much success with ppl trying to get sober and continue to take sedatives.

When I stopped drinking I had a helluva time getting to sleep. I relapsed just like the OP did. Eventually it occurred to me that I'd have to decide which was more important - continuing to relapse or getting sober. Eventually I chose staying sober. The sleep issue straightens out eventually for many of us. In my case, the only thing that really solved it was solidifying my recovery. I was one of those people that "not drinking" wasn't enough of a solution. I mean, I could do "dry" but it wasn't much of a life that I liked. As I focused on what they call the spiritual malady, all the other stuff straightened out.

If you're intent on getting and staying sober, I wouldn't recommend taking drugs to help you sleep.

ScottFromWI

Welcome back Time4Change. I'm in the same camp as DayTrader - you will likely end up trapped in the same loop you are in with alcohol if you rely on any form of medication or drug to get sleep.

Anxiety and insomnia is a very common side effect of quitting alcohol, mainly because alcohol severely throws your brain chemistry all out of balance. Your body never gets a chance to establish a regular sleep pattern. Sleep meds do the same thing. And benzos are basically alcohol in pill form for the most part.

So to be blunt, you likely need to bite the bullet and work with your doc to get off all the meds if you want to eventually get back to a "normal" sleep pattern. It will take time, maybe weeks or even months - but your body will adjust and sleep will eventually come.

AKA - there is no "magic pill" to fix the problem. The pills ARE the problem.

time4change79

I'm not on any meds.

I think my issue is pretty circumstantial. If I wasn't in the situation where I HAD to go to sleep once or twice a week, I would just rough it as some have said. Going on 3 hours of sleep is a walk in the park if we're just talking about going to work, but it's absolutely brutal trying to get up at 5am on cram 4 hours straight for a finance or stats test like that. The stress of not passing one of these exams and having to repeat a course snowballs the whole situation. I'll start stressing about not getting the sleep I need for an exam, which causes me not to get the sleep I need for the exam.

If I drink a couple beers, I'll get the sleep I need, but then I'm dependent on drinking a couple beers every night. Some would say that I don't really have a problem as there are people that moderately drink like this there whole lives without issue, but I'm just done with it. I hate having to depend on something like that.

I guess one could say I could become dependent on benzos, but they don't exactly sell them at the convent store below the building I live in either. If a doc prescribes 15 to last 2-6 months before a refill, that's how much I'm going to have.

I think this type of stuff is hard to explain on a forum like this because a lot of the members are ex drug addicts or major alcoholics. They're the type of people with addiction issues that could ever be trusted with managing medications like that. I quit drinking for health reasons. I don't get blacked out drunk or do stupid things when i drink. I'm not the type of person that can't stop drinking once they start. I'm just some guy that doesn't like the belly he's put on over the years that realized he was physically addicted to the modest amount of alcohol he had been consuming despite rarely getting drunk.

Gottalife

Ex major alcoholic here. I can manage those medications by staying away from them. I know guys like me who have been sober a while have relapsed around those types of meds because they trigger the phenomenon of craving. They are active in the same part of the brain. This is old news. We had a couple of doctors in our group years ago who used to ask the pill poppers if they were still "chewing ya p1ss"? Scott is right when he calls them solid alcohol.

You were given a bit of friendly advice by people who have some experience in this yet your last post contradicts the title of the thread. I could write it for you in fewer words:

"Yes but, I know that, you don't understand, I am different". That's pretty much what you said. I have heard these words many times before, they always seem to preceed a relapse.

On the other hand, if you are correct in your last post, you didn't relapse as in having a recurrence of the illness of alcoholism, because you don't have alcoholism. Instead you must be a regular drinker, who just didn't stick to his plan to stay dry. Perhaps more willpower is what is needed.

tomsteve

I think this type of stuff is hard to explain on a forum like this because a lot of the members are ex drug addicts

that were addicted to prescription meds, although werent at one time. they were able to manage them quite nicely.
until they couldnt.

but it's absolutely brutal trying to get up at 5am on cram 4 hours straight for a finance or stats test like that.

its been a while since i was in college or school, but i sure found it easier when i studied throughout rather than cramming the last few hours.

tomsteve

I'm not the type of person that can't stop drinking once they start. I'm just some guy that doesn't like the belly he's put on over the years that realized he was physically addicted to the modest amount of alcohol he had been consuming despite rarely getting drunk.

im not sure how a person can get physically addicted yet have the ability to stop at any time.

ScottFromWI

You are correct. We are a forum specifically here to support those who suffer from addiction. If you are not an addict or alcoholic, then this is likely not an appropriate place to be asking the questions you are asking.

Having said that, pretty much every single one of us thought our situation was unique. You will have to decide for yourself of course, but the overwhelming evidence shows that once you exhibit addictive tendencies, you cannot go back to "moderated" consumption. You probably don't want to hear that but it's the truth unfortunately.

time4change79

Me too, but I'm a non-traditional with a full time job. Is what it is.

This is also a second degree for me. When I was in college back in my 20's I could pull all nighters and still ace tests, but I had far more stamina, and my classes were easier. I'm taking a 400 level stats class right now that makes a lot of high level math courses seem warm and fuzzy. The professor is also regarded as one of the hardest ones on campus to make things worse.



If I can't sleep without alcohol while also getting anxiety and night sweats when I don't drink, one would have to think that is a physical addiction even if I typically only drink a couple pints of beer a night.

Other than the insomnia, these symptoms go away after a week or so too. That's a physical addiction.

time4change79

I have no doubt whatsoever that is true. I can't go back to drinking a couple times a week because I exhibit mild symptoms of detox after drinking for a few days straight and taking a night off. This is why I decided to quit. The health risks associated with only drinking a couple good beers a night isn't worth it. The fact that the alcohol causes me to snack before bed has done a number on my waistline in recent years too.

ScottFromWI

That's a wise decision. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are actually asking for advice about then?

time4change79

I don't think I'm different. I think there are LOTS of people with drinking problems very similar to mine. I'm just not sure there's going to be too many on a forum like this. I've noticed that most of the posters on here seem more like the types that have really messed their lives up with drinking at some point. They here someone like myself that has a much milder and different version of their disease only to assume I'm in denial or something. If I were in denial, I wouldn't be posting on here. I have an alcohol addiction. There is no question about that for me.

time4change79

Ways to solve sleeping issues for someone that self medicated with alcohol for many years.

Surely, I can't be the only guy that has become addicted to alcohol from using it as a sleep aid?

ScottFromWI

Then I did understand your original question, and my original answer wold still stand ;-)

It really doesn't matter "why" we became alcoholics/addicts/problem drinkers/etc. , as much as that we accept that we are.

In relation to your insomnia, I would still suggest that using meds is a bad idea. Your body will eventually get the sleep it needs meds or no meds. As an alcoholic who used alcohol ( also a drug ) to sleep, you are esentially trying to replace it with another med currently.

I had a tremendous amount of insomnia issues that lasted several months into being sober, but they did work themselves out eventually. I had lots of sleepless nights at first, but your body and mind simply need time to adjust. If you drank for 10 years it's not going to magically get better in a week.

Some non-drug things that can help
1. Avoid stimulation ( tv, phone/computer ) at least an hour before bed
2. Get exercise every day, even just a walk around the block
3. Reduce/eliminate caffeine and processed sugar intake
4. If you have anxiety ( I am diagnosed ) seek treatment for it. It's a completely separate issue from addiction or insomnia that is treatable without meds.

wastedpotential

These guys are warning you that using meds instead of alcohol when you have an alcohol addiction as you say is bad idea. They are right, if you have an alcohol addiction you shouldn't be replacing it with another chemical, especially one that acts on the same parts of the brain as alcohol.

Have you tried other things to help you sleep? Like not doing anything in your bedroom but sleep and sex? Get some some black out curtains to block out street lights and such. Get your room as dark as possible any light can affect your sleep. Have you been smoking or drinking coffee in the evening? Eating before bed? Tried squeezing in some exercise during the day? There are a lot of things you can do to get to sleep naturally instead of relying on pills.

I got a buddy that always complains about not being able to sleep. He insists he needs his tv on his bedroom to get to sleep, drinks mountain dew and smokes cigarettes right before bed. The answer is right in front of his face and he can't see it, even when I tell him why he can't sleep.

time4change79

I can't sleep without some type of mental stimulation and background noise. I have pretty severe tinnitus from an injury when I was younger. A dark quiet room is like hell for some like me. It's been that way since I was a kid before I ever even drank. I typically don't sleep in the bedroom because that's were my wife sleeps. She doesn't get home from work until about 2:30 in the morning and will wake me up when she goes to bed. Once I'm up, I'm up, which has also been that way since I was a kid. I typically sleep in the den or on the couch.

I exercise about 3-4 times a week, but sometimes I'll go a week or more without hitting the gym when my schedule gets crazy with school stuff. When I say I've gained weight, I mean I'm fat for me. My BMI is right were it's supposed to be.

Dee74

I actually read back to your first posts.

Seems to me this is the latest manifestation of a long term problem, but for the sake of argument I'll accept your premise that you drink to sleep.

I drank to sleep for years...when I quit I thought I'd been in for months of insomnia but within two weeks I was sleeping through the night.

University is tough - the higher up I got, the less students slept well.

Have you tried the basic common sense things like regular exercise, watching sugar caffeine and nicotine levels?

https://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/insomnia...omniatips.aspx
https://www.better-sleep-better-life...mnia-tips.html

I understand that time is a premium but living unhealthily - which is what drinking yourself to sleep nightly is - is not really viable.

its self destructive in the long term.

D

PennyLane76

There are herbal supplements such as Valerian that help some sleep. Of course supplements can have interactions, side effects, etc. so check with your Dr.

Also, I would suggest not posting here how "they", meaning "us", can't understand your very special circumstances because most of "us" have messed up our lives. You aren't that unique. There are others here who have juggled stressful full time jobs while putting themselves through college.