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Old 03-05-2018, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Berrybean View Post
Chances are my behaviour pre-AA was far more likely to damage my reputation than attending meetings while living a sober life in recovery was likely to, even if some one DID spot me in a meeting.BB
This is a great point. She's in denial about this and wants to move. I worry that she'd just be doing geographical recovery then--a temporary solution but not actually working on her recovery.

I'm also trying to figure out if she did stuff in a black out, or if she's so deep in denial that she isn't facing truth. I think on some level she knows I would never change my opinion of her or judge her, but the level of fear she has of other people's opinions of her runs deep, even for very simple things. Then again, that's alcoholism, isn't it.....

I honestly thought if she knew I was an alcoholic and in recovery, and what recovery has done for me, that this would help. All I got after my sharing stuff, AA meeting finder website, book recommendations, etc. was "thanks". I don't know how many rehabs she has in her or how much more of a bottom she can take.
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Forward12 View Post
AA is just that, anonymous. She will for sure lose everything if she keeps drinking.
I don't know how to come out and say that but I think she already knows this.

AV excuses, take her to the local meeting and offer her no icecream afterwards if she doesn't.
I've told her that I will drive out there and go to a meeting with her. I told her how every one of us struggles with walking through that doorway the first few times.

That's the point of AA, Alcoholics anonymous It sounds like your friend is making excuses. Until they are ready to get better, their world will just crash and burn.
Being that I don't live in a small town, or that I (miraculously) no longer care what others think of me, I needed a reality check from you all, so thank you.

Her world is already crashing and burning and that's why I don't get how much lower of a bottom she needs to wake up. And I'm really scared for her because of that.
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by daredevil View Post
Most licensed professionals of any type (accountants, lawyers, doctors, architects) and also non-licensed professionals (actors, musicians, etc.) have resources and programs for people in their fields struggling from addiction.
Where can these be found?
I asked her if she went to a rehab for people in her profession, and if the AA meeting she went to was for people in her profession, but she's telling me so little about that, that I'm not sure what to think. She is way focused still on other stuff.... She couldn't even say the word "rehab" to me although I knew what she meant. I am so concerned. :-(
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:14 AM
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This is a great point. She's in denial about this and wants to move. I worry that she'd just be doing geographical recovery then--a temporary solution but not actually working on her recovery.

could you tell her this for me- and its actually sincere and out of care:
wherever she goes, there she is.

the situation cant be easy for you.
what part of alcohol will kill you dont you understand!?!?!? doesnt get through to people in denial.
however, you carried the message- you let her know she's not alone and there is a solution.

I'm also trying to figure out if she did stuff in a black out, or if she's so deep in denial that she isn't facing truth.
could be both- has memories of drunken escapades that she is trying to keep stuffed. staying in denial trying to make it not true. shame,guilt,fear...all them nasty feelings cant come up if its denied they happened.
either way, good on ya for carrying the message.

a suggestion for you:
read the first paragraph on page 96 in the BB.
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Gottalife View Post
Special circumstances for professionals? That was one of the very first things tried, right in the founding moment of AA. In fact, if one of the co-founders had got his way, AA might not exist today.

Bill had given Dr Bob the rundown on the program as it then was. He was OK about everything except making amends to those in the community he had harmed. He felt strongly that he would be ruined, his reputation shot to tatters, if he went out and fessed up to his problem.

He got drunk a few weeks later. Bill and Anne got him home. He was badly hungover and shaky and he rmemebered he had to perfom a surgery that day, one that had already been put off a few times. Bill gave hm some beer to steady his hands, and off he went to the surgery> (nobody seems to know how it worked out for the patient). After surgery, he disappeared again. Everyone feraed another relapse. However, he got home at midnight, having gone all round the town squaring things with the people.

He never drank again, and his practice and patients were all fine.
Mike thank you so much for posting this. I completely forgot it. It's a very important reminder.
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Pathwaytofree View Post
I don't know how to come out and say that but I think she already knows this...........

I've told her that I will drive out there and go to a meeting with her. I told her how every one of us struggles with walking through that doorway the first few times..............

Her world is already crashing and burning and that's why I don't get how much lower of a bottom she needs to wake up. And I'm really scared for her because of that.......
You are a great friend and it's wonderful that you are trying to help her. Having said that, you cannot force her to seek help. And it is definitely scary - think of how scary it was for those around you that saw what was happening before you quit. There are countless stories about it here on SR too.

My point is - make sure you are taking care of yourself and not getting to invested in "changing" her - because at the end of the day you cannot. And eventually, she may begin to resent you for all the help you are trying to provide - so be prepared for that.
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Dropsie View Post
Goes w/o saying that the quit is the big thing.
Does it?
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Pathwaytofree View Post
Where can these be found?
(
https://www.idaa.org

Home | ILAA
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI View Post
You are a great friend and it's wonderful that you are trying to help her. Having said that, you cannot force her to seek help. And it is definitely scary - think of how scary it was for those around you that saw what was happening before you quit. There are countless stories about it here on SR too.
Thanks Scott, I appreciate your posts her on SR very much. My sponsor reminded me of this, too. She's not actually asking me for recovery help. This is the co-dependent in me, wanting to fix people so they don't have to feel the pain that I know they are feeling. I was talking about this with another recovery friend, and I realized that if someone is drowning, either we reach out our hand and they use it to help themselves out of the water, or they drag us down into it and we drown too. :-( I know the deal, I've lived it myself. This is the hardest part about trying to help people.

My point is - make sure you are taking care of yourself and not getting to invested in "changing" her - because at the end of the day you cannot. And eventually, she may begin to resent you for all the help you are trying to provide - so be prepared for that.
Thank you, Scott. Again I've been on both sides to this sort of thing. Finding that fine line between helping someone and not getting burnt out from trying to help them, vs helping someone and letting go when you realize they're not ready--is so difficult. And true I don't want her to resent me.

I just don't know how to stop thinking about her and worrying about her, even if I'm trying to not actually reach out and call her a lot. How do I do this? I know I can't fix her, but I hate to see her suffering like this and want to help.
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by tomsteve View Post
Thanks Tomsteve.
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Pathwaytofree View Post
I just don't know how to stop thinking about her and worrying about her, even if I'm trying to not actually reach out and call her a lot. How do I do this? I know I can't fix her, but I hate to see her suffering like this and want to help.
Focus on yourself. Have you ever read about mindfulness and meditation? I used it for anxiety along with some counseling too, but obsessing about anything and not being able to stop is very similar to anxiety. We have a constant stream of thoughts in our head, and there's really no way to stop them. But we can step back and learn to only focus on the ones that really matter - being mindful of that can really help.

It sounds like you are active in AA too, so there are a lot of tools you can use there to help you in this area too. Start right out with the serenity prayer...it pretty much gives you the exact formula you need to not worry so much about things you cannot change, no?
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:37 AM
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[QUOTE=tomsteve;6810022] This is a great point. She's in denial about this and wants to move. I worry that she'd just be doing geographical recovery then--a temporary solution but not actually working on her recovery.

could you tell her this for me- and its actually sincere and out of care:
wherever she goes, there she is.

Tomsteve, thank you. She's tried the geographical recovery thing before and now that I know what it is, I do need to gently but firmly call her out on it and repeat your quote. We can't run away from that which is eating us up inside. We can't run away from our pain.

the situation cant be easy for you.
It's not. It's hard to explain when it's someone you know as a friend. I care about all of my sponsees and have lost sleep worrying about them, but when it's a friend it sort of hits you at a different level.

what part of alcohol will kill you dont you understand!?!?!? doesnt get through to people in denial.
however, you carried the message- you let her know she's not alone and there is a solution.
This made me cry which I needed anyway. I keep forgetting that all I can do is carry the message. And she definitely knows she's not alone. She knows that I'm thinking about her even if I don't call every hour or something. She knows I know her pain. She knows I want to help. Maybe I should've told more of my story, but I didn't want to feed any drama. I feel so powerless and helpless when I see people in the pre-step 1 of denial. :-(

I'm also trying to figure out if she did stuff in a black out, or if she's so deep in denial that she isn't facing truth.
could be both- has memories of drunken escapades that she is trying to keep stuffed. staying in denial trying to make it not true. shame,guilt,fear...all them nasty feelings cant come up if its denied they happened.
either way, good on ya for carrying the message.
Thank you Tomsteve. Your comments on my thread have gotten through to me. I appreciate your blunt but kind truth. At least I stayed remarkably calm while she was telling me everything that's been going on. But I know she has to see her own truth, I can't make her see it. And her truth is not that she's a bad person. I know she knows that I know that. But we don't have the power to pull an alcoholic out of denial.

My sponsor says "pray for her" but sometimes I just want to scream "that's not enough, how can that help?!"

a suggestion for you:
read the first paragraph on page 96 in the BB.
Will do this right now.
Thanks Tomsteve you're a true godsend.
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:41 AM
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My wife is a professional.... medical field... if she were to have been found out, she would have had her name published in the medical journals where they list people who have their licenses revoked. Part of her fear about getting help was having her name published and the shame it would bring on the family and herself if going to rehab resulted in her being reported and getting her license revoked... I told her that I did not care if her name was in the journal as long as it was for the right reason... seeking help. That set her mind at ease somewhat.

People care too much about what others think... truth is, most other people have much more important things to be thinking about than others... and many people have their own skeletons that they are too busy trying to keep buried. Your friend will lose much more by not seeking help and still using than she will if her presence in AA gets known. I agree that if she is really concerned, she could start online... but if she actually does go to a local meeting, she will likely discover she is in good company.

One thing I have found about addicts... most are truly good people... they just do bad things when active in their addiction.
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Old 03-05-2018, 08:49 AM
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Pathway, something working with others has taught me:
theres more than just alcohol im powerless over. i have the power to carry the message, but powerless over what they do with it.
ive gotten the "pray for them" from my sponsor,too.
ok, right after i clobber you over the head!!

the majority of us arent bad people. bad people dont feel remorse,guilt, disgust, and shame over actions.
sick people do.
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Old 03-06-2018, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Spence7471 View Post
My wife is a professional.... medical field... if she were to have been found out, she would have had her name published in the medical journals where they list people who have their licenses revoked. Part of her fear about getting help was having her name published and the shame it would bring on the family and herself if going to rehab resulted in her being reported and getting her license revoked... I told her that I did not care if her name was in the journal as long as it was for the right reason... seeking help. That set her mind at ease somewhat.
I can understand her feeling that way but you nailed it pretty much when you said you what was important was that she seek help. That was a most supportive thing to say.

People care too much about what others think... truth is, most other people have much more important things to be thinking about than others... and many people have their own skeletons that they are too busy trying to keep buried
.
It took me a long time to learn this because I grew up with a mother who enjoyed gossiping and bad mouthing others. But it's so true, people have enough on their plate and minds to take time and energy to think about others.

Your friend will lose much more by not seeking help and still using than she will if her presence in AA gets known. I agree that if she is really concerned, she could start online... but if she actually does go to a local meeting, she will likely discover she is in good company.
I spoke with her again and she's still blaming others for her issues. And she's still very much in denial. A recovery friend told me I can't make anyone willing to recover. They have to want it. All we can do is carry the message.

One thing I have found about addicts... most are truly good people... they just do bad things when active in their addiction.
You know, I really appreciate your saying this. I don't judge people good/bad, whatever. I had lunch with a church friend recently--a woman somewhat older than me so with more old fashioned ways of thinking I guess--and I think since I am very spiritual she was trying to figure out if I was alcoholic or something. She started talking about her daughter and that she viewed "drinking" or "becoming alcoholic" as being "bad". I really didn't appreciate that view point in the least, because as the saying goes: "We're not bad people trying to be good. We're sick people trying to be well." Alcoholism and addiction aren't a moral issue or about character.

I didn't drink because I was "being bad". I drank because I was sick and without life tools. I didn't get the manual. ;-)
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Old 03-06-2018, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tomsteve View Post
Pathway, something working with others has taught me:
theres more than just alcohol im powerless over. i have the power to carry the message, but powerless over what they do with it.
ive gotten the "pray for them" from my sponsor,too.
ok, right after i clobber you over the head!!
Thanks tomsteve!! LOL I've often been frustrated with my sponsor too for things she's said, but now she gets joy out of seeing that I get it! It took me a sponsee or two to learn what "carry the message" really means. My sponsor was like "See, Pathway! I told you! You're getting the promise "will intuitively know how to handle things that used to baffle you." lol
the majority of us arent bad people. bad people dont feel remorse,guilt, disgust, and shame over actions. sick people do.
Thank you, Tomsteve. This makes me understand the quote "...sick people trying to get well" even more clearly.
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