Sohard

Someone used the term "mental gymnastics" on a post and it stuck with me. I've done that for so long, I didn't even know I was doing it until I recently came to accept my problem and I could feel the gymnastics/reasoning/bargaining in my brain slowing down. It was soothing. I can't imagine how soothing it would feel after prolonged sobriety,

I'm on day 9, which I'm excited about, and have IMMERSED myself in learning all about alcoholism. I had been feeling so strong...until last night. My last night's reading material was "A Prescription for Alcoholics - Medications for Alcoholism". I know many (maybe most?) of you are against medication for a "cure". Please understand - I don't think medication is a cure, and I'm not even hinting at that. I do wonder/believe it can be used (by some) to help, as they have been FDA approved for such a purpose and many countries have jumped on this bandwagon with great success. I think of my grandmother, who committed suicide over 100 years ago because medications simply didn't exist to help her mental illness. They called what she had just "hysteria". Right. Now doctors would recognize it as bi-polar and put her on meds and she'd probably still be alive. Personally, I tend to think that in the next generation or so, there will be medications which will enable humankind to safely get off alcohol. We'll look back and think "wow, we just expected people to do that by themselves?!? After society told them it was fine to drink?!" It's just my opinion. That is NOT to say it won't take some damn hard work (i.e., even if prozac HAD existed, by grandmother would have had to fight damn hard for her sanity), but I just think this medication will likely help.

ANYWAY, so, having said all that...I used Chantix to quit smoking (a long time ago) and it worked like magic for me. That's not to say I didn't have to work damn hard, I did, especially because of triggers all around me, but it is what ultimately allowed me to save my life. It works by "pharmacological extinction". You keep smoking once you're on the pill, but you no longer feel the effect. So, eventually you're smoking slows down until you stop. Magic. But...still hard work!

When my alcoholism was getting vey bad a few months ago, I would realize I would awake with the shakes and feel like hell at work. Like just HELL. When I got home on one particualr day, I saw a very old prescription of chantix (like, 2 were left) in my bathroom cabinet. I don't know why, but I felt compelled to take one. Within 30 minutes, I no longer felt panicky/withdrawal and I was okay. Not great, of course, but okay.

After much research, I've learned that while there are A drugs to help alcoholism (naltrexone and acamprosate and such), there are many studies on B drugs (like Chantix) which show they help alcoholics because they work on the same dopamine channels.

Anyway, I have ALSO experimented with Naltrexone in the past (I know, I know...). That was great in that I got no "high" from drinking, however "pharmacological extinction" with Naltrexone didn't work for me, as it did with Chantix. I had a frightening driving blackout I will never forgive myself for. It was horrifying.

To get around to my question (finally, right?!?), I was feeling strong and stable yesterday. And, I am feeling strong now (I know there is no way I will drink today). However, I definitely feel the mental gymnastics starting back up since my reading yesterday (which I'd intended to help me!). For instance, I'm thinking

1. Maybe I can drink once a week and have a chantix the next day so I don't feel that awful withdrawal. What would be so bad about that??

2. Or, hey, you never REALLY gave Naltrexone a fair shot because you blacked out on it because you drank so much. So, what you need to do is have a 1/2 bottle of wine once a week (at home, so you don't go overboard at another social gathering and you can safely control how much alcohol is around you). You know you won't feel the high bc of the medication, and you can retrain your brain (pharmacological extinction) not to keep drinking over and over because you are no longer feeling the high. This WORKED for you with Chantix and smoking, it'll probably work for you here, too. Then, you can become not a drinker again, but at least have the option to go out and have a drink socially with people, taking a Naltrexone beforehand so you won't feel the high that alcoholics feel and keep drinking.

Here me out. I am NOT asking for advice on moderation (I know that's not allowed here, nor should it be). What'd I'm saying is it freaks me out that these thoughts are creeping into my head. I feel like if I screwed up next week, ALL of you would say you saw it coming. So, since I'm worried about these thoughts, I thought I'd reach out and see if anyone had an idea about how to stop them in their tracks.

Even as I was writing the above - seeking help - I found myself thinking 'they don't understand....these idea just might work!'. Wtf?! These gymnastics are starting to get exhausting again.

Jesus Christ I'm trying.

doggonecarl

You are nine days sober. It is common in early sobriety for your mind to be in a chaotic state. I'm not completely sure what characteristics you are ascribing to "mental gymnastics" but any thoughts that include drinking as the end point is your addiction. Plain and simple.

The way to make the mental gymnastics end?

Not giving in to them.

MyLittleHorsie

I don't know if when you quit smoking if you did any of Allen Carr's method as well as the Chantix, it's visualising the "Nicodemon" dying. For me, I get the weird ideas, like I can drink at New Years, I can control it for one day - and I could, but I am setting myself back up for a failure down the line, because I can moderate, until I can't moderate anymore. I know this because over my alcoholic life, I have done so, quit for a month, moderate for 6 and then end up drinking 2 magnums of wine in a weekend. Then that one weekend becomes a string of unproductive weekends.

So every battle I win, if you will, every time I say no, every time I delay and distract, I win in my battle over alcohol. Eventually the good coping mechanisms I am employing will become second nature. Things like, thinking ahead and having a plan, making sure I have eaten, making sure I am the driver, so I can't drink, keeping what I like to drink out of the house, eating pretty decent, as long as I do those things in a controlled environment, I can continue to do them and they will become second nature.

I'm just at 8 weeks, but I honestly cannot see a situation in the next 6 months where I would want to, or feel I needed to drink.

ScottFromWI

It's very common to have these kinds of thoughts Sohard. And it's exactly the reason that you hear people saying over and over to "have a plan". By that I mean have a plan not only to just "not drink" but also to learn how to live your life without alcohol and face/deal actively with the world around us.

Your addiction is desperately trying to feed you BS about how you might be able to one day drink again. One thing you may want to consider is to stop googling - you can find "research" to justify anyting you want. If your AV wants to find a loophole it will find it.

Bringing the topic up here is a good idea as it will allow you to see it for what it is - pure AV/Addiction speak.

dwtbd

The only thing that thinks never drinking again is a bad thing is your addiction ( AV). YOU know alcohol and you s*ck, IT will Never think that, just dismiss Its ridiculous ideas. You got this, rootin for ya

Stayingsassy

Knowing my brain would come up with all kinds of avenues and back doors to ruin my life, I kept my nose to the grindstone.

If something triggered me I stopped thinking, analyzing and working it out. Red light = bad trail of thought, stop immediately. I would sometimes post it here, but the thoughts are so frequent I didn't post all of it.

Your addiction is your brain. You are steeped in it right now, it will get you to do whatever it takes and it's using your research to get you to drink.

Recognize the voice. Stop all activities and reading and thought patterns that seem to lead to making it ok to drink.

Nose to the grindstone. None of it matters. The alcohol is torturing you, you have bad withdrawals, you drove in a blackout, there is no safe way to go back.

Instead of reading about chantix, read up on Audrey kishline.

Stayingsassy

People who aren't alcoholics would read that post and say, "ok, wait: she wants to go on medication and try to drink once a week and track it all and document the results and etcetera...to have a glass of wine at a party? Why not just drink something else at a party?"

The crazy has to be seen. Do NOT take the insane part of this seriously or you put your addiction in charge, and that is the dangerous part.

Grungehead

"Mental gymnastics" seem to be unavoidable for most in the early stages of sobriety, and it usually seems to occur at the stage where the withdrawals have subsided and the memory of the pain and suffering of our last drunk is starting to become a bit fuzzy. This is where having a plan, implementing that plan and sticking with that plan starts building "sober muscles". And as your sober muscles become stronger sobriety starts becoming desired instead of required.

When the "mental gymnastics" start playing in your head, play that tape all the way to the end of what really happens after you take that first drink. It seems that us alcoholics seem to have a built in "forgetter" when it comes to the pain and misery that led us to quit drinking in the first place. It helps to keep that last drunk and the pain and misery it caused as fresh as possible in our memories.

Sohard

You're right, you're right, you're right. Thank you all.

Sohard

Oh, I really like this! It's a very specific plan I can follow: "play the tape all the way to the end" when I'm feeling conflicted. Thank you.

fini

.......I didn't even know I was doing it until I recently came to accept my problem .....

what problem is it that you've come to accept, sohard?

Sohard

That I have an alcohol problem. Or, my brain does.

fini

yes.
and what does that mean to you?

Sohard

I dont

Sohard

I honestly don't know.

Mac4711

YES. Not giving in to them, that’s exactly it!

Mac4711

Sohard,
As others have suggested, this is simply your addictive voice hard at work to get you to drink again. Like in meditation, acknowledge the thought ('Oh it's my AV again telling me that it has found a way for me to drink safely') and then just let it go. Don't engage it, because that will allow that thought to tighten its grip on you.

I could provide counter arguments, like if Chantix really worked for treating alcoholism, then you would see Chantix adds on all TV stations and at 7-11 they would sell combo packs of Vodka bottles and Chantix. But then again we really don't want to taunt your AV as I'm sure it's only too happy to engage in this discussion, so it can give you a million reasons why you should drink again tonight...

Sohard

I know you're right and my AV is only too happy to engage in this discussion. I actually don't think you would see the ads on all TV stations or chantix sold in packs w/ vodka in 7-11. After all, nicoderm patch ads took a while to catch on and yet they are still few and far between, which is sad for addicted smokers. And I know the chantix really did help me feel less of a withdrawal. I know, though, I know. You're right. This is going in circles. I have no clue how I could go from so confident yesterday to struggling today. As Sassy stated up above, obviously if I'm having awful withdrawals and blacking out driving, that's all I need to know. I changed my iPhone screen saver to a photo of my 8 year old niece, who I'm fortunate to have obsessed with me. Hopefully the guilt I feel whenever I look at her picture and think about my awful driving experience will be enough to make me make it to 100. Thanks for the thoughts.

Ken33xx

In other words you're not sure if you want to stop drinking. I fully understand. It's hard to imagine life completely without the drink.

However, understand this: the problems associated with drinking aren't likely to subside until you either quit or successfully learn to drink in moderation.

But who wants just a drink or two every so often? My wife but she's clearly not an alcoholic.

Personally, I can't think of anything less enjoyable than having one drink and then getting cut off.

Believe me. In the long run life without booze/drugs isn't that bad or uncomfortable.

Sohard

It's that I want to WANT to stop drinking. And I do, at times, most times in fact, but sometimes that begins to waver. Like when I read your last statement about how getting cut-off at one would not be enjoyable. I agree, but my addicted mind goes to thinking how neat it was that on naltrexone I drank so much slower and so much less. On it, one would be possible. One night, I only had two glasses of wine, which was a first in decades! And it was enjoyable! But...4 days later I blacked out and drove on it (having only had 2 beers and 2 wines over a four hour period). So, clearly naltrexone is not a safe answer for me. Clearly, I react poorly to it. Clearly, I just need to unchain myself from alcohol's grip completely, non-alcoholics don't obsess over this. Agh! I'm hitting the hay so I can stop thinking abt this. It's exhausting. Thank you for your advice.