Can we help someone avoid a relapse?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 147
Hi, HTown. I really don't know what would constitute "overwhelming support" from your point of view. What I do know is this:
1. Knowing I have a 100 people rooting for me instead of 5 would sure as hell give me a MUCH bigger morale boost.
2. A platoon of soldiers at my side, backing me up - instead of a couple of buddies - would make me feel a lot better about getting into and staying in the/a fight. And to me this is a fight; against a very real monster-enemy called alcoholism.
3. Lastly - knowing that a hundred people and not just two, would smile and say, "he/she did it", (once again - to me), would be a much bigger reward and incentive to succeed.
But that's only me. You probably have a totally different view, which you are entitled to, and which I respect.
1. Knowing I have a 100 people rooting for me instead of 5 would sure as hell give me a MUCH bigger morale boost.
2. A platoon of soldiers at my side, backing me up - instead of a couple of buddies - would make me feel a lot better about getting into and staying in the/a fight. And to me this is a fight; against a very real monster-enemy called alcoholism.
3. Lastly - knowing that a hundred people and not just two, would smile and say, "he/she did it", (once again - to me), would be a much bigger reward and incentive to succeed.
But that's only me. You probably have a totally different view, which you are entitled to, and which I respect.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
The alcoholic mind is a tricky thing. The guy in detox, his life destroyed, desperately asks for help. People rally round. Maybe he does a few meetings. Maybe he spends time on SR. He will get advice and support, but here is the rub, he has an absolute right to accept or reject any advice received. He can act on it or not entirely at his discretion.
In aa our experience is that there is some work involved in recovering from alcoholism. Most of us have tried to avoid it, and this has nearly always resulted in a return to the bottle. We know that at certain times we are without an effective defence against the first drink, and that no human power can provide one 24/7. So we suggest you take some specific action to solve that problem.
The guy that calls for help has that defence, or at least a defence that is working at the moment. Most who ask for help like that end up not drinking on that occasion. But for the guy whose alcoholic mind has come back full force it is a different story. There is no way in hell he will call anyone who might try to talk him out of a drink. He knows better, this time will be different, and maybe he wasn’t that bad anyway. Most relapsers never call because they just won’t. And what if they did and no one answered, or no one was interested... just becomes another excuse.
Sometimes I think about my friend Zac in these type of discussions. He relapsed after ten years sober, a nice guy who, quite within his rights, rejected the 12 steps. He was always at meetings, did service, quiet but popular. Then one day... he never called anyone till after the relapse. An army of AA’s turned up at his place offering support. Most of us thought that his ten years sober would count for something, that it would be a simple matter to get him detoxed and back on board with recovery. We could not have been more wrong. It was like that ten years had never been, and all that aa experience was gone, like the hard drive had been wiped.. the last time I saw Zac, he was surrounded by many well meaning aa members and friends. He never recovered, he died within three months. Just as if no one had tried to help him at all. I learnt something about being powerless with that experience.
In aa our experience is that there is some work involved in recovering from alcoholism. Most of us have tried to avoid it, and this has nearly always resulted in a return to the bottle. We know that at certain times we are without an effective defence against the first drink, and that no human power can provide one 24/7. So we suggest you take some specific action to solve that problem.
The guy that calls for help has that defence, or at least a defence that is working at the moment. Most who ask for help like that end up not drinking on that occasion. But for the guy whose alcoholic mind has come back full force it is a different story. There is no way in hell he will call anyone who might try to talk him out of a drink. He knows better, this time will be different, and maybe he wasn’t that bad anyway. Most relapsers never call because they just won’t. And what if they did and no one answered, or no one was interested... just becomes another excuse.
Sometimes I think about my friend Zac in these type of discussions. He relapsed after ten years sober, a nice guy who, quite within his rights, rejected the 12 steps. He was always at meetings, did service, quiet but popular. Then one day... he never called anyone till after the relapse. An army of AA’s turned up at his place offering support. Most of us thought that his ten years sober would count for something, that it would be a simple matter to get him detoxed and back on board with recovery. We could not have been more wrong. It was like that ten years had never been, and all that aa experience was gone, like the hard drive had been wiped.. the last time I saw Zac, he was surrounded by many well meaning aa members and friends. He never recovered, he died within three months. Just as if no one had tried to help him at all. I learnt something about being powerless with that experience.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 446
Originally Posted by August252015 
There's a correlation to 'helping others avoid relapse' but I think it's not measurable
It actually has been measured. From my other thread:
'Among those who were helping other alcoholics, 40% of participants avoided taking a drink in the year after treatment, whereas, among those who were not helping other alcoholics, only 22% avoided taking a drink.'
So yeah, you help others, you double your own chances - seems like a win/win to me!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...9/#!po=43.5484
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
Originally Posted by Mac4711
August,
It actually has been measured. From my other thread:
'Among those who were helping other alcoholics, 40% of participants avoided taking a drink in the year after treatment, whereas, among those who were not helping other alcoholics, only 22% avoided taking a drink.'
So yeah, you help others, you double your own chances - seems like a win/win to me!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...9/#!po=43.5484
It actually has been measured. From my other thread:
'Among those who were helping other alcoholics, 40% of participants avoided taking a drink in the year after treatment, whereas, among those who were not helping other alcoholics, only 22% avoided taking a drink.'
So yeah, you help others, you double your own chances - seems like a win/win to me!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...9/#!po=43.5484
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ng-others.html (Interesting research on AA - attending meetings vs. helping others)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Originally Posted by Mac4711
August,
It actually has been measured. From my other thread:
'Among those who were helping other alcoholics, 40% of participants avoided taking a drink in the year after treatment, whereas, among those who were not helping other alcoholics, only 22% avoided taking a drink.'
So yeah, you help others, you double your own chances - seems like a win/win to me!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...9/#!po=43.5484
It actually has been measured. From my other thread:
'Among those who were helping other alcoholics, 40% of participants avoided taking a drink in the year after treatment, whereas, among those who were not helping other alcoholics, only 22% avoided taking a drink.'
So yeah, you help others, you double your own chances - seems like a win/win to me!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...9/#!po=43.5484
Many people quit drinking without AA. Many people go about their lives with no involvement in helping other alcoholics. I know a few. I don't think that study proves anything. Of course, for some it may be important. Those are the ones who were in the study/some of whom are long-time AA members.
How does one study the millions who have quit without AA? The study is flawed. As stated above, being in AA and helping others is not a guarantee in the least. We each find our own path.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by biminiblue
I say that study is biased and is not conclusive, as stated in the first section of the descriptor. I read it before the link became inaccessible.
Many people quit drinking without AA. Many people go about their lives with no involvement in helping other alcoholics. I know a few. I don't think that study proves anything. Of course, for some it may be important. Those are the ones who were in the study/some of whom are long-time AA members.
How does one study the millions who have quit without AA? The study is flawed. As stated above, being in AA and helping others is not a guarantee in the least. We each find our own path.
Many people quit drinking without AA. Many people go about their lives with no involvement in helping other alcoholics. I know a few. I don't think that study proves anything. Of course, for some it may be important. Those are the ones who were in the study/some of whom are long-time AA members.
How does one study the millions who have quit without AA? The study is flawed. As stated above, being in AA and helping others is not a guarantee in the least. We each find our own path.
If you are not happy with the sited study, look up Crapes 2002, another study with similar results.
Beats me how you would get to know those few. They did it on their own presumably, so how do you get to meet chronic alcoholics who don't work with others? I never have. I have seen many big claims about this, but not one documented evidence based study. I am a regular at the local detox wards, I see the chronic cases come in, detox, go back out, come back, so often the nurses call them frequent fliers. The only ones I see recover, and there are few enough of them, are the ones that take the plunge into AA and get involved in helping others. Of course these are all pretty much end stage alcoholics.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Originally Posted by corriec
The more people that show they care, the less the chance of one of us relapsing. That's just my opinion, but I do think it is a valid one. If four or five SR members show their solidarity with one who is struggling with his/her demon right then, the chances of that person/friend relapsing is way smaller; if a hundred of us SR's show our support, the chances of a relapse are way-way-wayyy smaller. Strength in numbers, as they say.
So why are we not doing it then? Why don't we support people who have a very REAL problem - like all of us - and show that person we care. Why do people post a cry for help, and two or three days later, they have received eight or nine replies; but four or five hundred views? And yes, I know the difference between the two; also the difference between a visitor and a member.
I'm just as guilty as anybody else when it comes to "Replies" on posts, but as of now, I am going to try and be more actively supporting.
I know that this post probably won't make one little bit of difference, but it was just something I thought should be addressed. Taking an hour out to write something which should find rapport with hundreds of us, and receiving five or six replies - although gratifying in a sense; Thank You!! - is somewhat disheartening.
Post AND reply, I say! Tell us your heartaches and struggles; share with us and let us share with you.
Just my two cents worth.
So why are we not doing it then? Why don't we support people who have a very REAL problem - like all of us - and show that person we care. Why do people post a cry for help, and two or three days later, they have received eight or nine replies; but four or five hundred views? And yes, I know the difference between the two; also the difference between a visitor and a member.
I'm just as guilty as anybody else when it comes to "Replies" on posts, but as of now, I am going to try and be more actively supporting.
I know that this post probably won't make one little bit of difference, but it was just something I thought should be addressed. Taking an hour out to write something which should find rapport with hundreds of us, and receiving five or six replies - although gratifying in a sense; Thank You!! - is somewhat disheartening.
Post AND reply, I say! Tell us your heartaches and struggles; share with us and let us share with you.
Just my two cents worth.
I tend to doubt it matters how many people show their support. If the person in question isn't ready to stop they likely won't.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Originally Posted by biminiblue
I say that study is biased and is not conclusive, as stated in the first section of the descriptor. I read it before the link became inaccessible.
Many people quit drinking without AA. Many people go about their lives with no involvement in helping other alcoholics. I know a few. I don't think that study proves anything. Of course, for some it may be important. Those are the ones who were in the study/some of whom are long-time AA members.
How does one study the millions who have quit without AA? The study is flawed. As stated above, being in AA and helping others is not a guarantee in the least. We each find our own path.
Many people quit drinking without AA. Many people go about their lives with no involvement in helping other alcoholics. I know a few. I don't think that study proves anything. Of course, for some it may be important. Those are the ones who were in the study/some of whom are long-time AA members.
How does one study the millions who have quit without AA? The study is flawed. As stated above, being in AA and helping others is not a guarantee in the least. We each find our own path.
The only statistic in AA which counts is your own sobriety. The rest are meaningless.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
Not sure how we got onto the AA train .
I'll stick to the original question which was about the site.
No one can answer every post here - and believe me there was a time I tried.
I eventually realised I don't have to have all the answers for everyone, all the time.
Thats not my job
My job is to share my experience about what my problem was and what I did about it.
That's it.
Sometimes I see a post I can't immediately answer.
I may need to go away and think about it, I may have to think of how best to say what I want to convey or I may recognise that a post is out off my experience base and I trust that other people have a better chance of giving a helpful answer.
Now, this may sting but it's the truth,
It's not my job to prevent someone else's relapse.
I hope my words help of course and I'll give every bit of support I can, but
it's not my job.
It's your job, guys and gals, to prevent your own relapse.
If that sounds callous and disheartening please understand:
It needs to be that way because it's by building our own programme of recovery, or finding an established path that makes sense and motivates us, that we stay sober.
D
I'll stick to the original question which was about the site.
No one can answer every post here - and believe me there was a time I tried.
I eventually realised I don't have to have all the answers for everyone, all the time.
Thats not my job
My job is to share my experience about what my problem was and what I did about it.
That's it.
Sometimes I see a post I can't immediately answer.
I may need to go away and think about it, I may have to think of how best to say what I want to convey or I may recognise that a post is out off my experience base and I trust that other people have a better chance of giving a helpful answer.
Now, this may sting but it's the truth,
It's not my job to prevent someone else's relapse.
I hope my words help of course and I'll give every bit of support I can, but
it's not my job.
It's your job, guys and gals, to prevent your own relapse.
If that sounds callous and disheartening please understand:
It needs to be that way because it's by building our own programme of recovery, or finding an established path that makes sense and motivates us, that we stay sober.
D
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
ps the original point that just a simple acknowledgement of someone posting could make a world of difference is a good one
I still look out for newbies and posts with low replies and I encourage everyone else to do the same.
Thanks for the reminder Corriec
I still look out for newbies and posts with low replies and I encourage everyone else to do the same.
Thanks for the reminder Corriec
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: fort worth tx
Posts: 1,373
Great subject and thank you.
I read a lot here and try to help newcomers when I have time. My only discontent is with people who relasap for some of the silliest reasons. Granted, I'm not walking in their shoes, but I can't help someone who's not serious about quitting. If your here asking for help, I'll help you based on my experience. If you want to drink, go drink.
I truly believe that those of us that achieve long term sobriety are the one's that realise alcoholism is disease. They have hit rock bottom. The only way to keep from dying of the disease is to quit drinking. Once this occurs, relasap is never an option. If you have 1 month, 2 months 3 months sobriety and you relapse over something like a bad day with the in-laws or work, then i can't make sense of that.
I read a lot here and try to help newcomers when I have time. My only discontent is with people who relasap for some of the silliest reasons. Granted, I'm not walking in their shoes, but I can't help someone who's not serious about quitting. If your here asking for help, I'll help you based on my experience. If you want to drink, go drink.
I truly believe that those of us that achieve long term sobriety are the one's that realise alcoholism is disease. They have hit rock bottom. The only way to keep from dying of the disease is to quit drinking. Once this occurs, relasap is never an option. If you have 1 month, 2 months 3 months sobriety and you relapse over something like a bad day with the in-laws or work, then i can't make sense of that.
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