Not sure where AA stands in my life
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Originally Posted by corriec 
Which implies what Ken33? That I attended a business meeting in the back of a church with two dozen other alcoholics? Thanks for your helpful input.
Just what I said. An AA business meeting. The only time I've been in room with other alcoholics where the minutes were read were business meetings. The AA groups in my area hold a monthly meeting on the second floor of a church. There is also a meeting the at the same time held in the basement so if you were new to AA it's not unreasonable to think you might attend the wrong meeting.
This is what it sounded like happened to you.
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Originally Posted by MelSober
That is wonderful that you found a way that AA works for you and that you have had the benefit of knowing lot of others who the do it exactly as expected, however, I believe that may exclude so many people from even wanting to try it. Myself included. If everything has to be exactly one way then it comes off like a cult. Not even like church but full on cult. That is not appealing at all. I really don't see why Sassy couldn't benefit from doing it the way she's doing it.
Sassy, if you don't feel like that particular meeting is a good fit because they become adamant that you form a relationship/mentorship/whatever with someone do you think you will try another meeting and see if they are more relaxed? I am glad you find it supportive and helpful. Nothing but YOU guarantees your recovery so rely on your own opinion IMO.
AA seems to attract or create some real fans and that is good, but it also can go too far if someone puts themselves in the position to judge what will work in someone else's recovery.
Sassy, if you don't feel like that particular meeting is a good fit because they become adamant that you form a relationship/mentorship/whatever with someone do you think you will try another meeting and see if they are more relaxed? I am glad you find it supportive and helpful. Nothing but YOU guarantees your recovery so rely on your own opinion IMO.
AA seems to attract or create some real fans and that is good, but it also can go too far if someone puts themselves in the position to judge what will work in someone else's recovery.
To Sassy- comments about AA feeling like work or you feeling lazy or "liking" parts...well, it is a commitment - lots of us come to feel it is the opposite of work - to me, it's a lifestyle choice and working my program and going to meetings and having support is just what I do.
To MelSober- I was not suggesting that everyone does AA the same way. In fact, I believe "there are as many types of alcoholics as alcoholism." For ex- some people in AA continue to struggle to figure out what/who is their higher power- but have accepted that SOMETHING bigger than them exits. Others, struggle with Ego (see: Bill W's story) or "the type of alcoholic they were" and if they qualify...others, like me, found that underlying issues were what I had to truly deal with, like anxiety - and that judgmentalness was one of my big problems (v Ego, sort of!).....
The critical thing all people in AA DO have in common is acceptance of the suggested - note that word- steps to recovery it lays out and to the program, not the personalities of individual people.
I'd venture to say that there are plenty of things non-AAers and even "laypeople" would relate to in the steps, program and stories of people with a drinking problem.
As a final example of "How It Works" (a ch in the BB) - there is an expression "take what you want and leave the rest." This doesn't mean picking and choosing what you LIKE about AA - it means, as I understand it, that figuring out what works for me - to wit, I focus on living in steps 1 (acceptance), 10 (making ongoing amends when I do something wrong), 11 (spiritual fitness) and 12 (service to others). Some people might need to concentrate on 3 (relationship with their higher power) or 7/8 (turning things over to your higher power, to simplify).....
Lastly- IMO and IME- my recovery HAS to come "to any lengths, at any cost" - before work, family, chores, exercise, whatever in order for me to have all of those things flourish.
Exiting stage left now....
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Originally Posted by corriec
Which implies what Ken33? That I attended a business meeting in the back of a church with two dozen other alcoholics? Thanks for your helpful input.
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Originally Posted by corriec
Go to relapseprevention.co.za
this is from the page on there,"what we are about:"
While we follow the principals of the 12 step programs and fellowships in online meetings and are open to modern fact based methods and strategies in the pursuit of sustained recovery.
however, according the the AA south africa website
Alcoholics Anonymous South Africa Meetings
there are AA meetings in moreleta park
is it possible it really wasnt an AA meeting ya went to but a relapse prevention meeting?
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Hi.
I can only apologise if you thought I was being sarcastic. That really isn't my style on here and it wasn't my intent this morning either. I was genuinely wondering if it was a general AA meeting (and not a group conscious or business meeting - those aren't the same format at all as a group meeting ).
Anyway. It sounds like perhaps it wasn't an AA meeting anyways which might explain why it was so different.
So apologies again for any crossed wires. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often considering the differences in location culture and language that is encompassed in this community.
Wishing you all the best for your sobriety and recovery.
BB
I can only apologise if you thought I was being sarcastic. That really isn't my style on here and it wasn't my intent this morning either. I was genuinely wondering if it was a general AA meeting (and not a group conscious or business meeting - those aren't the same format at all as a group meeting ).
Anyway. It sounds like perhaps it wasn't an AA meeting anyways which might explain why it was so different.
So apologies again for any crossed wires. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often considering the differences in location culture and language that is encompassed in this community.
Wishing you all the best for your sobriety and recovery.
BB
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Folks: Let's remember that we're here to support each other, not argue recovery methods. One of the guidelines I try to follow myself is to re-read my own posts before hitting "post" - and think of how it would read to a newcomer or someone unfamiliar with a particular recovery method.
No posts have been removed nor any action taken, just a friendly reminder to keep in mind why we are all here in the first place.
No posts have been removed nor any action taken, just a friendly reminder to keep in mind why we are all here in the first place.
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Originally Posted by August252015
A few things....
To MelSober- I was not suggesting that everyone does AA the same way. In fact, I believe "there are as many types of alcoholics as alcoholism." For ex- some people in AA continue to struggle to figure out what/who is their higher power- but have accepted that SOMETHING bigger than them exits. Others, struggle with Ego (see: Bill W's story) or "the type of alcoholic they were" and if they qualify...others, like me, found that underlying issues were what I had to truly deal with, like anxiety - and that judgmentalness was one of my big problems (v Ego, sort of!).....
The critical thing all people in AA DO have in common is acceptance of the suggested - note that word- steps to recovery it lays out and to the program, not the personalities of individual people.
I'd venture to say that there are plenty of things non-AAers and even "laypeople" would relate to in the steps, program and stories of people with a drinking problem.
As a final example of "How It Works" (a ch in the BB) - there is an expression "take what you want and leave the rest." This doesn't mean picking and choosing what you LIKE about AA - it means, as I understand it, that figuring out what works for me - to wit, I focus on living in steps 1 (acceptance), 10 (making ongoing amends when I do something wrong), 11 (spiritual fitness) and 12 (service to others). Some people might need to concentrate on 3 (relationship with their higher power) or 7/8 (turning things over to your higher power, to simplify).....
Lastly- IMO and IME- my recovery HAS to come "to any lengths, at any cost" - before work, family, chores, exercise, whatever in order for me to have all of those things flourish.
Exiting stage left now....
To MelSober- I was not suggesting that everyone does AA the same way. In fact, I believe "there are as many types of alcoholics as alcoholism." For ex- some people in AA continue to struggle to figure out what/who is their higher power- but have accepted that SOMETHING bigger than them exits. Others, struggle with Ego (see: Bill W's story) or "the type of alcoholic they were" and if they qualify...others, like me, found that underlying issues were what I had to truly deal with, like anxiety - and that judgmentalness was one of my big problems (v Ego, sort of!).....
The critical thing all people in AA DO have in common is acceptance of the suggested - note that word- steps to recovery it lays out and to the program, not the personalities of individual people.
I'd venture to say that there are plenty of things non-AAers and even "laypeople" would relate to in the steps, program and stories of people with a drinking problem.
As a final example of "How It Works" (a ch in the BB) - there is an expression "take what you want and leave the rest." This doesn't mean picking and choosing what you LIKE about AA - it means, as I understand it, that figuring out what works for me - to wit, I focus on living in steps 1 (acceptance), 10 (making ongoing amends when I do something wrong), 11 (spiritual fitness) and 12 (service to others). Some people might need to concentrate on 3 (relationship with their higher power) or 7/8 (turning things over to your higher power, to simplify).....
Lastly- IMO and IME- my recovery HAS to come "to any lengths, at any cost" - before work, family, chores, exercise, whatever in order for me to have all of those things flourish.
Exiting stage left now....
I don't think that spending the weekend with a stranger I felt no connection to would help my recovery more than spending time with my family- finally able and present enough to truly appreciate them. The former sounds alienating especially given that my impression of AA is that there is an inescapable hierarchy that whoever is the longest sober somehow gets to tell others what they should and should not do.
Again and again I have read people on here or other stories online who felt they were somehow to be pitied or judged who went to a meeting by the people who were "longtimers". That breaks my heart for those fragile people who are already tired of being judged and found lacking.
If "take what you want and leave the rest" doesn't mean pick and choose, what does it mean? I think th overall message and structure of AA just like religion is absolutely awesome but add in the people with their flaws and hidden agendas of trying to gain power by putting themselves in a position of declaring what it all means is where it all goes terribly wrong. Everything is subject to personal bias.
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Sassy - I was at an NA meeting last night where someone shared that 'NA carried the message not the addict'. That has been my experience in AA as well. I thought about that when you were told that AA carried you.
You did put in the work, and I think it is good that you are proud of it. In the rooms I sometimes hear people give God credit for everything good in their life and blame themselves for everything bad. For me, I think it is important for self-confidence to give credit where credit is due. I don't believe that I could have made it without help from the rooms, but that shouldn't prevent me from acknowledging the work I put in too.
Have you tried different meetings? That has helped me when I started getting bored with certain meetings. Going to meetings has rarely felt like 'work' to me. I enjoy going to meetings.
Have you tried sharing or asking questions about your issues? Maybe you could jump in first at a meeting and ask people what they get out of their relationship with their sponsor.
The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. If you want to only go to meetings that is your business. If you don't want to go to meetings it is your business. At a certain point in my recovery I had to start sticking up for myself in the rooms. That meant telling people that were offering me unsolicited advice "Thanks for your concern, but I came here for personal experience, not advice."
You did put in the work, and I think it is good that you are proud of it. In the rooms I sometimes hear people give God credit for everything good in their life and blame themselves for everything bad. For me, I think it is important for self-confidence to give credit where credit is due. I don't believe that I could have made it without help from the rooms, but that shouldn't prevent me from acknowledging the work I put in too.
Have you tried different meetings? That has helped me when I started getting bored with certain meetings. Going to meetings has rarely felt like 'work' to me. I enjoy going to meetings.
Have you tried sharing or asking questions about your issues? Maybe you could jump in first at a meeting and ask people what they get out of their relationship with their sponsor.
The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. If you want to only go to meetings that is your business. If you don't want to go to meetings it is your business. At a certain point in my recovery I had to start sticking up for myself in the rooms. That meant telling people that were offering me unsolicited advice "Thanks for your concern, but I came here for personal experience, not advice."
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Sigh. Why does the mention of AA cause so much conflict? I think that's an interesting question to pose: since we are all here for the same reason; to free ourselves from the prison of alcohol.
I posted the original post because I do not have a long period of sobriety behind me. I feel determined, but I am also concerned about relapse. Knowing my personality, I feel like I am equally likely to relapse after committing completely to AA as I am to relapse while just using it as a support rather than a lifestyle. I easily rebel against anyone or anything that tells me what to do. I'm really not a "believer." I'm a "questioner." I guess you could use the word "skeptic." I require proof.
What I'm no longer skeptical about is my response to alcohol, to any alcohol stimulus in my body. Through many, many years of trial and error and with complete honesty in myself regarding the total lack of effectiveness in moderating my alcohol intake. I took the hypothesis "I can cut back on my drinking and my quality of life will be fine," I tested it many times, with many different controls (antabuse, exercise, situational modifications) and it was false. Scientific method applied, I am an alcoholic that needs to stay quit or my life is destroyed.
Cue in support methods: and I'm fine with the higher power thing, I'll buy it, also I think the steps make some sense, and I'll get a sponsor. But I'm not making AA my "life." I'm also not making it dogma. There's more than one way to skin this cat.
I appreciate all your responses, from those with their entire bodies minds and souls in AA, to those using AA but also keeping their minds open to all forms of support, and to those using other methods.
Today I'm enjoying the rain, my sober body and mind, grateful for my healed injury, my opportunity to go to the gym, and my distance from alcohol, no matter how shallow that distance is, I have it. I've gotten away, I've embraced my sobriety, and now its just a matter of keeping this attitude front and center.
I posted the original post because I do not have a long period of sobriety behind me. I feel determined, but I am also concerned about relapse. Knowing my personality, I feel like I am equally likely to relapse after committing completely to AA as I am to relapse while just using it as a support rather than a lifestyle. I easily rebel against anyone or anything that tells me what to do. I'm really not a "believer." I'm a "questioner." I guess you could use the word "skeptic." I require proof.
What I'm no longer skeptical about is my response to alcohol, to any alcohol stimulus in my body. Through many, many years of trial and error and with complete honesty in myself regarding the total lack of effectiveness in moderating my alcohol intake. I took the hypothesis "I can cut back on my drinking and my quality of life will be fine," I tested it many times, with many different controls (antabuse, exercise, situational modifications) and it was false. Scientific method applied, I am an alcoholic that needs to stay quit or my life is destroyed.
Cue in support methods: and I'm fine with the higher power thing, I'll buy it, also I think the steps make some sense, and I'll get a sponsor. But I'm not making AA my "life." I'm also not making it dogma. There's more than one way to skin this cat.
I appreciate all your responses, from those with their entire bodies minds and souls in AA, to those using AA but also keeping their minds open to all forms of support, and to those using other methods.
Today I'm enjoying the rain, my sober body and mind, grateful for my healed injury, my opportunity to go to the gym, and my distance from alcohol, no matter how shallow that distance is, I have it. I've gotten away, I've embraced my sobriety, and now its just a matter of keeping this attitude front and center.
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Originally Posted by Stayingsassy
. But I'm not making AA my "life."
another lil part from the BB:
None of us makes a sole vocation of this work, nor do we think its effectiveness would be increased if we did. We feel that elimination of our drinking is but a beginning. A much more important demonstration of our principles lies before us in our respective homes, occupations and affairs. All of us spend much of our spare time in the sort of effort which we are going to describe.
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Originally Posted by tomsteve
thats good, because we're not supposed to. our way of life or how we live life? a set of principles to live by?yeah. but not our life.
another lil part from the BB:
None of us makes a sole vocation of this work, nor do we think its effectiveness would be increased if we did. We feel that elimination of our drinking is but a beginning. A much more important demonstration of our principles lies before us in our respective homes, occupations and affairs. All of us spend much of our spare time in the sort of effort which we are going to describe.
another lil part from the BB:
None of us makes a sole vocation of this work, nor do we think its effectiveness would be increased if we did. We feel that elimination of our drinking is but a beginning. A much more important demonstration of our principles lies before us in our respective homes, occupations and affairs. All of us spend much of our spare time in the sort of effort which we are going to describe.
I also appreciated when you told me if I read the book and did the steps, I'd be doing the heart of the program even if I rarely went to meetings at all.
I think sometimes I overthink things because I have such a fear of relapse and I never know what will "set me off."
Seeing how some of you do AA helps me see that I can do the program but make it a comfortable fit for myself as well.
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Stayingsassy, everyone who quits anything practices AVRT even if they don't know it. They make a plan to quit and then don't let anything change their minds. That is what you have done and it is enough. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If you want to go to AA or not then that is up to you but AA is not going to get you sober or keep you sober, only YOU can do that by never changing you mind about your decision to quit drinking.
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Originally Posted by MelSober
I do apologize for offending you. Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning in your first post.
I don't think that spending the weekend with a stranger I felt no connection to would help my recovery more than spending time with my family- finally able and present enough to truly appreciate them. The former sounds alienating especially given that my impression of AA is that there is an inescapable hierarchy that whoever is the longest sober somehow gets to tell others what they should and should not do.
Again and again I have read people on here or other stories online who felt they were somehow to be pitied or judged who went to a meeting by the people who were "longtimers". That breaks my heart for those fragile people who are already tired of being judged and found lacking.
If "take what you want and leave the rest" doesn't mean pick and choose, what does it mean? I think th overall message and structure of AA just like religion is absolutely awesome but add in the people with their flaws and hidden agendas of trying to gain power by putting themselves in a position of declaring what it all means is where it all goes terribly wrong. Everything is subject to personal bias.
I don't think that spending the weekend with a stranger I felt no connection to would help my recovery more than spending time with my family- finally able and present enough to truly appreciate them. The former sounds alienating especially given that my impression of AA is that there is an inescapable hierarchy that whoever is the longest sober somehow gets to tell others what they should and should not do.
Again and again I have read people on here or other stories online who felt they were somehow to be pitied or judged who went to a meeting by the people who were "longtimers". That breaks my heart for those fragile people who are already tired of being judged and found lacking.
If "take what you want and leave the rest" doesn't mean pick and choose, what does it mean? I think th overall message and structure of AA just like religion is absolutely awesome but add in the people with their flaws and hidden agendas of trying to gain power by putting themselves in a position of declaring what it all means is where it all goes terribly wrong. Everything is subject to personal bias.
I don't know how I can better explain the "take what you want and leave the rest" than I did in my two posts where I addressed the steps and program.
Again, I have to stress that "people with hidden agendas" and basically, having their own junk that thy spread around meetings and such - are exactly why AA tells us it must focus on the program, not personalities. That means the program comes before you or me or anyone and how we behave.
I am also confused about your comment about "spending the weekend" away. AA mtgs are an hour (usually) unless you are going on a retreat, you wouldn't be away from anything for a wkd. Lots of us find it hard to fit meetings into our schedule because we do want to be with our families at night, etc. We all juggle life commitments and values related to how we spend our time. I decided that meeting attendance was important enough to me to find times it will work, now I am at 4-6 a week at almost 21 mo sober, and rarely get below 3. The truth is I CAN ind time for them.
Lastly, I am sad that people have "impressions" or "convictions" about AA that include things like "its a hierarchy" with the most sober telling others what to do, to paraphrase you. That's again not what the program is about, and again, an example of how SOME people in the program (the personalities) might behave....but actually, the TRUTH about AA is that the Newcomer is the most important person in the room if the program and its members are running correctly.
And what those with longer sober time ARE supposed to do is share their ESH with the newcomers - their Experiences, what it was like; their Strength, what happened when they quit; and their Hope sharing what life is like now. This isn't telling anyone what to do. I statements ("I have found...") not you statements ("You really should...") are supposed to guide our contribution.
Last- and I am not in any way saying AA is for everyone- but these recent threads where folks use words like "cult" and "hierarchical" structure, and "dogma," make me sad that so many people run on assumptions or half-truths or complete misinformation and "share" it as what AA is.
Peacing out.
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Originally Posted by Stayingsassy
I saw that you posted a longer version of this and I found it interesting, it runs counter to how some AA'ers view the program, but its right there in the big book.
I also appreciated when you told me if I read the book and did the steps, I'd be doing the heart of the program even if I rarely went to meetings at all.
I think sometimes I overthink things because I have such a fear of relapse and I never know what will "set me off."
Seeing how some of you do AA helps me see that I can do the program but make it a comfortable fit for myself as well.
I also appreciated when you told me if I read the book and did the steps, I'd be doing the heart of the program even if I rarely went to meetings at all.
I think sometimes I overthink things because I have such a fear of relapse and I never know what will "set me off."
Seeing how some of you do AA helps me see that I can do the program but make it a comfortable fit for myself as well.
and there i was a few years sober going to quite a few meetings a week. then one day after a meeting my sponsor came up to me and said,"youre on a pre meditated drunk."
wth did he know!?!?!?!
that was actually quite nicer then what i really said.
i came real close to drinking, which was about a month later, then saw i had been working on the thought of drinking for some time.
the only thing i was doing was going to meetings- i wasnt practicing the principles in all my affairs.
i encourage newcomers to make as many meetings as they can but also add that
going to meetings is great, but going to meetings and not drinking dont treat alcoholism.
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August, it seems AA meetings are only as good as the people who populate them. I think if someone posts on SR of their experience in AA meetings, then that's their experience (not assumptions or half-truths - I don't see why someone should lie). So it seems their experience of AA was not AA party line and thus, inadequate and therefore they were let down?
I recall some posts from Gottalife regarding Back to Basics AA meetings, which teaches the AA Big Book Steps/Program, which seems far more rigidly structured and accurate regarding its centering on the AA Big Book and its 12 Steps Program. From what I read, the Back to Basics AA Program based on the Big Book, would allow less room for personalities and interpretations and would seem to preclude folks adding to the Big Book with their own agendas. Is that something you would endorse, August?
I recall some posts from Gottalife regarding Back to Basics AA meetings, which teaches the AA Big Book Steps/Program, which seems far more rigidly structured and accurate regarding its centering on the AA Big Book and its 12 Steps Program. From what I read, the Back to Basics AA Program based on the Big Book, would allow less room for personalities and interpretations and would seem to preclude folks adding to the Big Book with their own agendas. Is that something you would endorse, August?
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Originally Posted by tomsteve
in all honesty, i lived for some time quite opposite of what that little part says. i was living a fear based program- thinking if i didnt go to x number of meetings/week, id drink again.
and there i was a few years sober going to quite a few meetings a week. then one day after a meeting my sponsor came up to me and said,"youre on a pre meditated drunk."
wth did he know!?!?!?!
that was actually quite nicer then what i really said.
i came real close to drinking, which was about a month later, then saw i had been working on the thought of drinking for some time.
the only thing i was doing was going to meetings- i wasnt practicing the principles in all my affairs.
i encourage newcomers to make as many meetings as they can but also add that
going to meetings is great, but going to meetings and not drinking dont treat alcoholism.
and there i was a few years sober going to quite a few meetings a week. then one day after a meeting my sponsor came up to me and said,"youre on a pre meditated drunk."
wth did he know!?!?!?!
that was actually quite nicer then what i really said.
i came real close to drinking, which was about a month later, then saw i had been working on the thought of drinking for some time.
the only thing i was doing was going to meetings- i wasnt practicing the principles in all my affairs.
i encourage newcomers to make as many meetings as they can but also add that
going to meetings is great, but going to meetings and not drinking dont treat alcoholism.
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Why does the mention of AA cause so much conflict?
Personally, I think AA gets the most attention because it's the largest program of recovery out there.
I'm an AAer and I will probably go to a meeting tonight with my sponsor. I have a wonderful AA home group. Did a 90 in 90 in my early recovery and have done a fair amount of step work. Blah blah blah..... So it works for me and I like it.
But I am not so narrow minded that I think that AA is the best path to recovery for everyone. I sincerely hope that everyone who tries to break their addiction to alcohol and/or drugs succeeds. I really don't care how they do it.
Personally, I think AA gets the most attention because it's the largest program of recovery out there.
I'm an AAer and I will probably go to a meeting tonight with my sponsor. I have a wonderful AA home group. Did a 90 in 90 in my early recovery and have done a fair amount of step work. Blah blah blah..... So it works for me and I like it.
But I am not so narrow minded that I think that AA is the best path to recovery for everyone. I sincerely hope that everyone who tries to break their addiction to alcohol and/or drugs succeeds. I really don't care how they do it.
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