Cost benefit analysis of drinking
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 86
Cost benefit analysis of drinking
Hi again
I'm very aware that the only way to successfully stop drinking is to be convinced that there are no benefits to drinking, only costs, and that there are only benefits to being sober, no costs. Now, I'm at the stage of ambivalence, I know that drinking is costing me, but at the same time, I'm fearing missing things.
Write out on a sheet of paper 4 columns titled; costs of drinking, benefits of drinking, costs of not drinking, benefits of not drinking. If you do that, the things that might appear in the 'costs of not drinking' and 'benefits of drinking' column are the things that need to be addressed.
In the costs of not drinking column, you're very likely to have concerns about losing friends, concerns about how you'd cope in social situations, concerns about not being able to think of things to say and many more.
It's important that the resources should address these concerns and teach coping strategies. I feel that conventional 12-step systems don't do this.
For any benefits of drinking, the solution should be simple; find ways of realizing those benefits without alcohol. There's a huge myriad of reasons we might use alcohol, but for all of them, there are alternative ways. This is where I believe that more resources are needed and this is where I think that much conventional stop drinking material fails.
If you can only see benefits of drinking, and costs of for drinking, or if you feel that costs of not drinking don't matter*, then you cannot blame yourself for being weak-willed and lacking discipline and willpower.
I think that blaming failed attempts at quitting on lack of discipline and willpower is dangerous, because it's basically instilling the message that all those times you've tried and failed is a sign that you're not capable. What's more, it can instill a mentality that 'there's no point in trying, why bother'. That's the irony of willpower narrative.
The truth is, if you're not convinced that there are no benefits to drinking, you'll find yourself 'white-knuckling' it. You don't want to see sobriety as deprivation. That's no way to live and not a recipe for success.
What's missing and not accessible are the resources that can address what we might identify as benefits to drinking and costs of not drinking.
I'm very aware that the only way to successfully stop drinking is to be convinced that there are no benefits to drinking, only costs, and that there are only benefits to being sober, no costs. Now, I'm at the stage of ambivalence, I know that drinking is costing me, but at the same time, I'm fearing missing things.
Write out on a sheet of paper 4 columns titled; costs of drinking, benefits of drinking, costs of not drinking, benefits of not drinking. If you do that, the things that might appear in the 'costs of not drinking' and 'benefits of drinking' column are the things that need to be addressed.
In the costs of not drinking column, you're very likely to have concerns about losing friends, concerns about how you'd cope in social situations, concerns about not being able to think of things to say and many more.
It's important that the resources should address these concerns and teach coping strategies. I feel that conventional 12-step systems don't do this.
For any benefits of drinking, the solution should be simple; find ways of realizing those benefits without alcohol. There's a huge myriad of reasons we might use alcohol, but for all of them, there are alternative ways. This is where I believe that more resources are needed and this is where I think that much conventional stop drinking material fails.
If you can only see benefits of drinking, and costs of for drinking, or if you feel that costs of not drinking don't matter*, then you cannot blame yourself for being weak-willed and lacking discipline and willpower.
I think that blaming failed attempts at quitting on lack of discipline and willpower is dangerous, because it's basically instilling the message that all those times you've tried and failed is a sign that you're not capable. What's more, it can instill a mentality that 'there's no point in trying, why bother'. That's the irony of willpower narrative.
The truth is, if you're not convinced that there are no benefits to drinking, you'll find yourself 'white-knuckling' it. You don't want to see sobriety as deprivation. That's no way to live and not a recipe for success.
What's missing and not accessible are the resources that can address what we might identify as benefits to drinking and costs of not drinking.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by vulcan30 
...the only way to successfully stop drinking is to be convinced that there are no benefits to drinking, only costs, and that there are only benefits to being sober, no costs.
When I was in outpatient treatment, one of the group exercises was to make what they called a "Ben Franklin table", pros and cons on both sides - pros and cons of drinking, pros and cons of not drinking. It was very illuminating when done as a group, because people thought of pros and cons I hadn't thought of on my own.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pacific Coast
Posts: 785
For me, I think I became aware that the cost/benefit analysis was clearly tilting towards the costs significantly outweighing the benefits by about 2003 or 2004.
It was 2013 before I was able to stop for good.
So, how YOU doin', Vulcan30?
It was 2013 before I was able to stop for good.
So, how YOU doin', Vulcan30?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Cost benefit analysis of drinking
for me that was very simple and came the day after my last drunk- when i finally got out of denial and was given the gift of desperation:if i kept drinking i was going to kill myself.
I feel that conventional 12-step systems don't do this.
sometimes feelings arent true, and when drinking, most feelings and thoughts arent.
it would be wise to learn what the 12 steps do.
I think that blaming failed attempts at quitting on lack of discipline and willpower is dangerous, because it's basically instilling the message that all those times you've tried and failed is a sign that you're not capable.
youre free to think that, however, there is a class of alcoholic, or maybe a stage of alcoholism, where no amount of willpower will keep a person from drinking.
no amount of willpower or discipline could get me sober.
to add to that,using my thinking to determine the discipline necessary was pretty nuts.
What's missing and not accessible are the resources that can address what we might identify as benefits to drinking and costs of not drinking.
yes, the resources are available at just about any store- pen and paper.
write out the benefits of drinking, the cost of drinking. then write out the benefits of not drinking and the cost of not drinking.
its strange ya say the resources arent available, yet mention earlier in your post what i typed . your own words:
Write out on a sheet of paper 4 columns titled; costs of drinking, benefits of drinking, costs of not drinking, benefits of not drinking. If you do that, the things that might appear in the 'costs of not drinking' and 'benefits of drinking' column are the things that need to be addressed.
now its known. and yet, that wont help- there is action necessary.
vulcan, i sure hope ya decide to stop trying to complicate,analyze, and critique recovery-stop making excuses to keep drinking.
for me that was very simple and came the day after my last drunk- when i finally got out of denial and was given the gift of desperation:if i kept drinking i was going to kill myself.
I feel that conventional 12-step systems don't do this.
sometimes feelings arent true, and when drinking, most feelings and thoughts arent.
it would be wise to learn what the 12 steps do.
I think that blaming failed attempts at quitting on lack of discipline and willpower is dangerous, because it's basically instilling the message that all those times you've tried and failed is a sign that you're not capable.
youre free to think that, however, there is a class of alcoholic, or maybe a stage of alcoholism, where no amount of willpower will keep a person from drinking.
no amount of willpower or discipline could get me sober.
to add to that,using my thinking to determine the discipline necessary was pretty nuts.
What's missing and not accessible are the resources that can address what we might identify as benefits to drinking and costs of not drinking.
yes, the resources are available at just about any store- pen and paper.
write out the benefits of drinking, the cost of drinking. then write out the benefits of not drinking and the cost of not drinking.
its strange ya say the resources arent available, yet mention earlier in your post what i typed . your own words:
Write out on a sheet of paper 4 columns titled; costs of drinking, benefits of drinking, costs of not drinking, benefits of not drinking. If you do that, the things that might appear in the 'costs of not drinking' and 'benefits of drinking' column are the things that need to be addressed.
now its known. and yet, that wont help- there is action necessary.
vulcan, i sure hope ya decide to stop trying to complicate,analyze, and critique recovery-stop making excuses to keep drinking.
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
You've been starting threads like this for quite some time now Vulcan -and as Dee mentions, you rarely ( if ever ) reply or participate in the constructive feedback that you receive. I was in the bargaining stage for quite some time myself too - trying to somehow explain/figure out "WHY" i drank. Yet I kept drinking and nothing changed.
I do hope you make the choice to quit at some point, but i can tell you from experience that arguing about it won't get you there.
I do hope you make the choice to quit at some point, but i can tell you from experience that arguing about it won't get you there.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Chicago
Posts: 605
Originally Posted by vulcan30
Hi again
I'm very aware that the only way to successfully stop drinking is to be convinced that there are no benefits to drinking, only costs, and that there are only benefits to being sober, no costs. Now, I'm at the stage of ambivalence, I know that drinking is costing me, but at the same time, I'm fearing missing things.
Write out on a sheet of paper 4 columns titled; costs of drinking, benefits of drinking, costs of not drinking, benefits of not drinking. If you do that, the things that might appear in the 'costs of not drinking' and 'benefits of drinking' column are the things that need to be addressed.
In the costs of not drinking column, you're very likely to have concerns about losing friends, concerns about how you'd cope in social situations, concerns about not being able to think of things to say and many more.
It's important that the resources should address these concerns and teach coping strategies. I feel that conventional 12-step systems don't do this.
For any benefits of drinking, the solution should be simple; find ways of realizing those benefits without alcohol. There's a huge myriad of reasons we might use alcohol, but for all of them, there are alternative ways. This is where I believe that more resources are needed and this is where I think that much conventional stop drinking material fails.
If you can only see benefits of drinking, and costs of for drinking, or if you feel that costs of not drinking don't matter*, then you cannot blame yourself for being weak-willed and lacking discipline and willpower.
I think that blaming failed attempts at quitting on lack of discipline and willpower is dangerous, because it's basically instilling the message that all those times you've tried and failed is a sign that you're not capable. What's more, it can instill a mentality that 'there's no point in trying, why bother'. That's the irony of willpower narrative.
The truth is, if you're not convinced that there are no benefits to drinking, you'll find yourself 'white-knuckling' it. You don't want to see sobriety as deprivation. That's no way to live and not a recipe for success.
What's missing and not accessible are the resources that can address what we might identify as benefits to drinking and costs of not drinking.
I'm very aware that the only way to successfully stop drinking is to be convinced that there are no benefits to drinking, only costs, and that there are only benefits to being sober, no costs. Now, I'm at the stage of ambivalence, I know that drinking is costing me, but at the same time, I'm fearing missing things.
Write out on a sheet of paper 4 columns titled; costs of drinking, benefits of drinking, costs of not drinking, benefits of not drinking. If you do that, the things that might appear in the 'costs of not drinking' and 'benefits of drinking' column are the things that need to be addressed.
In the costs of not drinking column, you're very likely to have concerns about losing friends, concerns about how you'd cope in social situations, concerns about not being able to think of things to say and many more.
It's important that the resources should address these concerns and teach coping strategies. I feel that conventional 12-step systems don't do this.
For any benefits of drinking, the solution should be simple; find ways of realizing those benefits without alcohol. There's a huge myriad of reasons we might use alcohol, but for all of them, there are alternative ways. This is where I believe that more resources are needed and this is where I think that much conventional stop drinking material fails.
If you can only see benefits of drinking, and costs of for drinking, or if you feel that costs of not drinking don't matter*, then you cannot blame yourself for being weak-willed and lacking discipline and willpower.
I think that blaming failed attempts at quitting on lack of discipline and willpower is dangerous, because it's basically instilling the message that all those times you've tried and failed is a sign that you're not capable. What's more, it can instill a mentality that 'there's no point in trying, why bother'. That's the irony of willpower narrative.
The truth is, if you're not convinced that there are no benefits to drinking, you'll find yourself 'white-knuckling' it. You don't want to see sobriety as deprivation. That's no way to live and not a recipe for success.
What's missing and not accessible are the resources that can address what we might identify as benefits to drinking and costs of not drinking.
I am now over a year sober and I don't miss it at all nor have I missed ANYTHING as a result of me not drinking.
I still enjoy football just as much as I did. I still love going out to eat. In fact, I enjoy it more because I have an appetite.
I did miss out on over 300 hangovers and the expense of buying over 150 cases of beer. Now that I'm glad I missed out on.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 446
Vulcan,
It is not my intention to be rude, but I think there is one expression that succinctly summarizes your situation: S#&t or get off the pot.
I hope that very soon you’ll find the strength to finally take action and I wish you the best!
It is not my intention to be rude, but I think there is one expression that succinctly summarizes your situation: S#&t or get off the pot.
I hope that very soon you’ll find the strength to finally take action and I wish you the best!
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,761
Each morning when I wake up feeling good and NOT hating myself, I know the benefits of sobriety are worth the effort.
I didn't have to do an analysis to figure that out. It came to me when I woke up feeling good, instead of feeling horrible.
I didn't have to do an analysis to figure that out. It came to me when I woke up feeling good, instead of feeling horrible.
sober style
Join Date: May 2016
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 2,382
Originally Posted by vulcan30
I'm very aware that the only way to successfully stop drinking is to be convinced that there are no benefits to drinking, only costs, and that there are only benefits to being sober, no costs.
There are as many ways to successfully stop drinking as there are drunks, probably a lot more in fact.
O-n K-a-r A-r-r-e-s-t
Join Date: May 2016
Location: US
Posts: 600
Drinking
money: purchase of alcohol, the bad food you eat while drinking, activities you do during drinking
non-money: loss of good friends, only drinking friends, loss of control, health issues, family issues, loss of self-respect, loss of time, not knowing how good you can really be, prison/death
The risk of a DUI
money: higher insurance, court costs, legal fees, interlock fees, dmv fees, dui classes, job loss
non-money: jail, loss of self-respect, loss of time, prison/death
As you can see there are a lot of cons and I am sure you can add a bunch to the ones I listed.
money: purchase of alcohol, the bad food you eat while drinking, activities you do during drinking
non-money: loss of good friends, only drinking friends, loss of control, health issues, family issues, loss of self-respect, loss of time, not knowing how good you can really be, prison/death
The risk of a DUI
money: higher insurance, court costs, legal fees, interlock fees, dmv fees, dui classes, job loss
non-money: jail, loss of self-respect, loss of time, prison/death
As you can see there are a lot of cons and I am sure you can add a bunch to the ones I listed.
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
"For most normal folks, drinking means conviviality, companionship and colorful imagination. It means release from care, boredom and worry. It is joyous intimacy with friends and a feeling that life is good. But not so with us in those last days of heavy drinking. The old pleasures were gone. They were but memories. Never could we recapture the great moments of the past. There was an insistent yearning to enjoy life as we once did and a heartbreaking obsession that some new miracle of control would enable us to do it. There was always one more attempt - and one more failure.
The less people tolerated us, the more we withdrew from society, from life itself. As we became subjects of King Alcohol, shivering denizens of his mad realm, the chilling vapor that is loneliness settled down. It thickened, ever becoming blacker. Some of us sought out sordid places, hoping to find understanding companionship and approval. Momentarily we did - then would come oblivion and the awful awakening to face the hideous Four Horsemen - Terror, Bewilderment, Frustration, Despair. Unhappy drinkers who read this page will understand!"
BB
pg 151
The less people tolerated us, the more we withdrew from society, from life itself. As we became subjects of King Alcohol, shivering denizens of his mad realm, the chilling vapor that is loneliness settled down. It thickened, ever becoming blacker. Some of us sought out sordid places, hoping to find understanding companionship and approval. Momentarily we did - then would come oblivion and the awful awakening to face the hideous Four Horsemen - Terror, Bewilderment, Frustration, Despair. Unhappy drinkers who read this page will understand!"
BB
pg 151
Into the Void
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: California
Posts: 931
I think you will find that upon closer inspection most of the "benefits" of drinking are, at least to the problem drinker, illusory. Beyond the cheap good feeling of the buzz and the ability to fit in with your drinking friends, there ain't much there, mostly just a bunch of BS rationalizations. I can assure you the negatives to drinking are quite real and will increase over time.
I am not these thoughts - I am the Master of these thoughts.
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 134
Alcoholism never stays in one place. It always progresses and strives to reach its end goal: your life.
Need there be more reason than that to choose sobriety.
Accept that as an alcoholic your choices are limited. Keep drinking and risk your life. Stop drinking and start living.
Need there be more reason than that to choose sobriety.
Accept that as an alcoholic your choices are limited. Keep drinking and risk your life. Stop drinking and start living.
I am not these thoughts - I am the Master of these thoughts.
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by Fluffer
I think you will find that upon closer inspection most of the "benefits" of drinking are, at least to the problem drinker, illusory. Beyond the cheap good feeling of the buzz and the ability to fit in with your drinking friends, there ain't much there, mostly just a bunch of BS rationalizations. I can assure you the negatives to drinking are quite real and will increase over time.
I tell myself this too...even the years I had in sobriety when my mind would occasionally wander back to the days of foggy-headed "bliss". I'd hear those words, "It was all an illusion I was trying to live."Well said!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: East
Posts: 165
Originally Posted by ljc267
This, for some reason, was a huge hurdle for me. It kept me drinking for many years past the point when I knew I was an alcoholic.
I am now over a year sober and I don't miss it at all nor have I missed ANYTHING as a result of me not drinking.
I still enjoy football just as much as I did. I still love going out to eat. In fact, I enjoy it more because I have an appetite.
I did miss out on over 300 hangovers and the expense of buying over 150 cases of beer. Now that I'm glad I missed out on.
I am now over a year sober and I don't miss it at all nor have I missed ANYTHING as a result of me not drinking.
I still enjoy football just as much as I did. I still love going out to eat. In fact, I enjoy it more because I have an appetite.
I did miss out on over 300 hangovers and the expense of buying over 150 cases of beer. Now that I'm glad I missed out on.
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