Doug39

Due to the fact that the court systems forces drunk drivers and addicts to attend AA meetings, we sometimes get angry dangerous people coming to meetings.

Their is this one guy that is court ordered to come to meetings and I see him almost everyday at meetings. He never talks and he never participates at all.

Today, he was sitting next to this other guy (who has been in the program for like 30 years and is a nice quiet guy) and I am not sure what happened but this angry guy threatened him and told him "I am going to slap the s**t of of your stupid a$$".

The quiet guy got up and left in fear. I feel bad for the quiet guy because he loves AA and is probably hurting and I also feel bad for the angry guy because he is very messed up.

I shouldn't let any of this bother me - not sure why it does.

Db1105

Anytime anyone threatens physical harm to someone, the police should be called. Period.
There are some angry, dangerous people everywhere on this planet. Even in houses of worship, places of employment , parks, etc.. Alcoholics Anonymous is no different. violence, to threats of violence are rare, but sometimes occur. When they do, call 911.

Doug39

The incident took place in the back of the room so only a handful of people heard it - it was over as fast as it happened.

I am sure he would have been throw out if everybody had heard it - but I wasn't going to say anything - this guy is like 6 foot 5, 275 pounds, big and mean looking.

Not someone I want on my bad side.

PhoenixJ

There are dangerous people in all walks of life. The same court ordered guy will be on a normal bus with normal people- who also have their issues. Meetings can sometimes be scary and confronting places where people- if not because they are just utter jerks- will kick the dog. They lash out at others because they are scared oe fearful. Not all- but a lot.

Doug39

I understand that their are bad people everywhere - it is just that the rooms of AA should be a safe place where people can go to get help.

I worry that guy that got picked on may not come back for awhile - it isn't fair to him.

People getting run out of rooms could lead to them relapsing- it is a bad thing for AA

Maudcat

Well, Doug, I appreciate that you are worried about the quiet guy.
If he has been in AA a long time, I would bet that he has seen his share of angry, unhappy people.
He probably left because it was the smart thing for him to do, and will be back.
Or he has other meetings he can retreat to.
Peace.

Doug39

I have talked to the quiet guy and he has a lot of social anxiety. He goes through periods where he isolates. We always invite him to lunch with the group I hang out with after AA meetings but he never used to want to come along.

Recently he has been coming along and has been feeling more comfortable around people - this unfortunate incident may set him back.

Fly N Buy

Group conscience - don't sign his paper........We are not obliged.

Berrybean

I take it that you at least told the sccretary of the meeting what you witnessed AFTER the meeting Doug.

Thing is, if they don't know, they can't call the group conscience to go over what can be done. They also can't have a chat with the offending person and tell them what standards of behaviour are required and what will happen if they behave in threatening or abusive ways.

We can keep OUR (as in the group) meetings safe by working together, not by keeping quiet and hoping someone else will sort it out. It shouldn't even all fall to the group secretary really, but they are the ones who can call a group conscience. If you didnt speak to them yet, perhaps it would be a good idea.

Wishing you all the best for your sobriety and recovery.

BB

August252015

Agree with BB, as I usually do.

Also....this might be tough to "stick to" in this situation...but what others do truly is their side of the street, not yours. Translation- address the problem guy after the meeting, do not focus on what others "might" be feeling etc (including the problem guy) and focus on your side of the street.

There are all kinds of people in AA just like everywhere else in life. Focus on those who have what you want - side note: some of these court ordered folks could fall into that category too- and keep going in your program.

Best to you.

Bunny211

When I first read this I read "six foot and five thousand two hundred and seventy five lbs" and thought, DAMNNNNNNNNNN

ScottFromWI

Definitely let someone know Doug. Dangerous people can be found in all public places, not just AA meetings. My workplace has community service workers that are mandated to be there performing various tasks during day and they return to prison for the evening. If any of them behave in an inappropriate way the proper authorities are notified immediately.

Redmayne

Accepting the fact that alcoholism is sometimes described as a disease/illness of ignorance.

I attended meetings in the large urban conurbation in which I live from 1984 to late Nov.,2007 on an intermittent but for regular periods taking, to the best of my ability an active part as I could, sharing, washing up, contributing o the pot, buying AA literature etc.

The result, nothing, until over the last two I attended a guy handed me a cd recording of one of 'Joe & Charlie's:Big Book Study Meetings'. In Feb., 2008 I got sober, never to take up drinking or go to a meeting again. I did, quite sensibly join SR.

Apparently Joe McQuany was the first lack man to be allowed to attend AA meetings in Little Rock, Arkansas where he had to stand at the back of the room and leave before the meeting ended.

From which experience he learned that the key to recovery was not in meetings but in the book 'Alcoholics Anonymous'.

Fortunately he eventually teamed up with the late, Charlie Parmley and the rest, especially for me and others who suffer from alcoholism, the rest is history.

So for me, the most dangerous people in the rooms are not the belligerent, loudmouths, who probably don't want to be there anyway. It's those who sit there in often only to eager and willing to talk about anything and everything other than recovery and sobriety. Completely ignorant or unwilling, for whatever reason bto follow Bill Wilson's suggestion to 'Pass it on'. Which I thought, given that the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, for whatever is said about it, acts as a support organisation for 'problem drinkers' was the primary object of its existence.

Or have I got that wrong?

tomsteve

now THAT is awesome to read- lookin at why YOU are bothered by it.
could be insecurity? meetings are supposed to be safe and that kind of blew that feeling of being secure and safe for the time?

ive walked into an AA meeting before and saw a barfight break out.
great thing was going back about 6 months later and seeing both the guys that were fighting still there and sounding like they started workin the program.
aint the 1st time someone has walked into a meeting full of anger and wont be the last.
theres different solutions and imo one is to have someone with some time under their belt approach the big dude outside of the meeting and have a talk with him- some 12th step work. he might truly want help but still full of fear and that fear is coming out in anger.

sure hope they BOTH come back and start workin the program.

nez

I am not going to give any opinions on the incident because I didn't witness it in person, and so in my reply I am looking at the scenario from a pre-incident status.

The quiet guy with 30 years of AA deserves his shot at recovery. I am glad that people invite him to lunch and give him a chance to work on his social interaction skills.

The 6'5" 275 lb court ordered guy deserves his shot at recovery. I hope people are brave enough to invite him to lunch and give him a chance to work on his social interaction skills.

The description of him bares a bit of resemblance to me when I first came into AA, with the exception that I wasn't court ordered (I had just never been caught and sent to court for my drunken misdeeds).

I am not small. I never talked. Never participated. Probably had a "Do not disturb" sign hanging from my forehead. Definitely had what a lot of people would consider a scowl on my face. Couple all this with the fact that I am a leather wearing motorcycle rider (plus jeans, tee shirt, clunky engineer boots) and I am sure I was elevated to sociopathic grade B movie biker status in a lot of people minds. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I know more than a few people with old timer status and sobriety that I respect and want, that started out as court ordered.

I know more than a few people with old timer status and sobriety that I respect and want, that just never got caught at their drunken deeds and so never wound up in court.

Whatever gets you to the party is fine by me. We all deserve a shot at recovery.

Angry words have been spoken by the vast majority people on earth. Quite a few have even verbalized what could be construed as threats. How many people have said to a sibling "I am going to kill you!" Doesn't automatically translate to actuality.

It doesn't hurt to be on guard against physical violence, it is only prudent. It doesn't always come from the expected source though, e.g. John Wayne Gacy

I am glad that I have two eyes. I keep one on other folks; and one on me. My jury is still out on which is more dangerous! :~)

ardy

life today is just such a mess... I went to a couple of AA meetings back in the 1980's.. you could go to a mixed room or just the ladies.. went and sat for a bit and said no thank you God.. these people are a bigger mess then I am.. ekkekekek...

a big guy like that will always seek out the easiest sheep. and scare them.. that is the nature of the Beast.... and then the drink or drugs does not help...
It's hard for there is nothing really in training on how to deal with this. just what you have under your own belt... I have my Pop. and there is enough in me of Him.. to scare the crap out of a dummy in a lite room or a dark sidewalk.. and have done both... its hard kids and beans and today.. its even harder.. for you have no idea if this Beast has a weapon... the cleaning oil that is used in a gun or on a blade makes my nose itch.. if it is to warm it has been cleaned in less then 8 hours and makes my nose run a bit.. the big dog in my will find secure silently and help have things become as secure for the others as much as possible...... we have been at the Fair for the last 5 days... most of the time its peachy to OK I can deal with that... but last Monday with the Full Moon OH Mother McCree... and we will not even go any further as it is just nuts.... when we were done at 9pm... out kiddo out.. I have to go home.. ekkekekekkekek

next time in your case.. that cell phone comes out silently and dial 911... and let the op pick up on the problem .. get out of the mix and answer their questions as best as you can address number of people and weapons animals and children.... it might help hugely... prayers kids so many prayers...

Coldfusion

In discussions of personal safety in the rooms that I have been leading in our group, it has emerged that what Tomsteve describes above is a very common approach. But it would be good if the General Service Office would come out with some guidelines so that those who take action know what they are doing is appropriate. Our Area has requested that GSO come out with guidelines for personal safety so that no one individual is deciding who can attend AA.

paulokes

Echo this.

To me in early sobriety I needed meetings to be a place of safety...anything that was a disturbance seemed to be a threat to my sobriety.

Now of course I don't like disruption and drama in a meeting...it's not healthy...but it doesn't threaten me. And if I need to be a part of dealing with it...I can do this.

The best meetings deal with these situations together...as a group. A few solid sober members can usually take the heat out of any situation.

And helps me to remember there are lots of sick folk in AA by definition...some level of disruptive behaviour is pretty much guaranteed...especially in the smaller meetings

No disrespect to the OP...hang in there..you may find situations such as these easier to deal with as time goes on.

P

sugarbear1

"We" are GSO. We the group run the show, why not start having group consciences to come up with some guidelines? Then have your GSO bring that information to GSO and get a committee and work on it?

GSO represents us, they are not our leaders, they are our trusted servants.

On the flip side, most of those in jails are us alkies who are dying of the malady of alcoholism, whether the substance be a pill or a liquid or.....and those 12 steps have helped many who were once behind bars. This has happened since AA began.....

What could be a solution? I need to think of this some more.....

JeffreyAK

We used to get a lot of drama occasionally in the outpatient rehab I went to, and not just from court mandated people. Addiction creates a whole host of problems, like not having normal rational ways of dealing with stress and emotions, and that doesn't all clear up immediately when we stop drinking and using drugs, in fact quitting magnifies those problems and brings them right out into the open. Add legal problems to the mix, and you can get explosions. So, I can empathize with the angry guy, and while I never threatened anyone I'm sure I was short-tempered at times.

The way the counselors dealt with that was to encourage everyone to talk about how they felt, including directly towards the person who caused the drama. A threat of physical violence does cross the line, and I never saw that happen, but otherwise talking through feelings seemed to help everyone including me get past the drama and feel safe again.

This might not be relevant to an AA meeting, given how AA meetings tend to work, but maybe talking about your feelings to other folks who were there, outside the meeting, would help?