Atheism in AA
 

Not sure where to go, so I'll start here and see if I guessed right. :D

I'm an atheist, I've got a good chunk of sober time.
I'm trying to find where I can talk to others about not having a deity as a HP.

I've met a few people who are new to the program and consider themselves atheists. I'm having a hard time trying to put into words what/how one can be spiritual without being religious. I am a Taoist and I find that very spiritual, but I lack the words to try to explain.

Another dilemma, a friend signed us up to chair a meeting starting in July. I'm the co-chair and I'll choose the readings. I think this may be harder than I thought. I have nothing against anyone who is religious, etc. but I wouldn't feel right sharing a reading about something that I don't believe in.

:headbange

If you choose the reading won't you be able to choose one that fits with your values? There are plenty I'm sure. I used to go to AA for quite a few years so do remember some.

I say I'm an atheist as just can't wrap my head around there being no proofs, and still believing in a Supernatural being,

PLUS all of the suffering that occurs on earth with a presumably loving God at the wheel. It just ain't aspic :) And I've still got my values.

I think someone here wrote that they were apatheist meaning they couldn't care less, and they still didn't have to lose their values.

Rambling post,.

Have you looked at the Secular 12-Step Forum here on SR?

Secular 12 Step Recovery - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Doesn't it say somewhere in the big book that the realm of the spirit is all inclusive? And isn't Taoism a form of spirituality? And wasn't one of those key choices about facing an alcoholic death or learning to live by spiritual principles? And didn't they say that whatever we choose in this area is fine as long as it make sense to us?

I don't see a problem. I am not religious in any formal sense. I have my own believes developed through actual experience. However, when I am chairing a meeting, or carrying the message as part of my AA service, I try to keep to the AA program as it is written, and not my version of what I think it should be. I feel it is disrespectful to do otherwise,

I don't believe in Father Christmas, but I don't feel the need to tell people he doesn't exist. I'd happily read a story about father Christmas without having pangs of conscious or wanting to change the words.

I suppose that's the thing in my view...AA is quite clear that any member can hold any views they wish. It's taking issue with the words used that seems to trouble so many. My generic advice to anyone would be read the words that are there if reading from literature, but use whatever words are personally meaningful when sharing ones own experience.

P

presumably, there is satan,too. maybe he has a part in the suffering

The only requirement for membership might be topical for you to consider. Have you read of Jim Burwell - one of first 10 AA'ers and of similar mindset perhaps.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Burwell

Hey my ex-wife wasn't the nicest person, but leave her out of this.

Hi,

I'm trying to figure it out as well. Here are some of my resources.

Websites:

https://aaagnostica.org/ (they also have a "how to start a meeting" section. I'm probably going to start one myself.)

https://secularaa.org/

https://aabeyondbelief.org/

Agnostic meetings are often listed on the local AA site. (If there are any - they are rapidly growing)

Also of interest:

Alcoholics Anonymous Universal Edition written by Archer Voxx

Podcasts:

AA Beyond Belief (my fave - really good advice here)

Alcoholism-recovery-radio (not many new episodes but tons of good ones)

The "step studies" in both podcasts have been very helpful to me in interpreting the God talk, and making sense of the steps.

Hope that helps.

CJ.

Now that is funny.

Thanks for the laugh.

That's acutally not atheist, but agnostic! atheist believe there is no diety while an agnostic says there's no way to know or not to know and humans just can't actually understand it.

I'm agnostic myself!

I've been sober 25 years and still consider myself an agnostic. I have a higher power, a universal presence, that is closer to Buddhism than Christianity, and it works ok. Email me if you'd like to chat privately. Good luck!

Maybe just work the steps and be willing to stop insisting there is no higher power?

A common HP for Atheists, Agnostics and heck even many new comers who aren't all that comfortable with religion is AA itself, or the group or fellowship.

G = Group
O = Of
D = Drunks

Fits nicely.

If the HP thing is preventing you from going to meetings (and you really want to go), then I recommend just shelving it for now.

I recommend anyone go to meetings, (and try different ones), be sober, meet people. Talk to them. You will find people all over the belief spectrum, and more importantly, you will find people you click with and can relate to.
At least this has been my experience.

CJ

Can the universe, which includes your self, be your higher power thus making you your own higher power?

This is honestly fits along the lines of my beliefs.

MY conception of a higher power is just that. MINE. I have a higher power I call NOT ME. I don't need to EXPLAIN that to anyone.

I chaired a meeting yesterday and my topic was the 24June Reflections. I balked at first, because how am I going to start a topic about God when I am a non-theist?

It went like this:

We read the Reflections. I shared MY experience and talked about MY journey to happiness, joy, and freedom by following the directions (steps) in AA. I shared that the "God-crap" kept me out of AA for a long time, but it was because of misconceptions on my part....that I didn't understand that I could have ANY conception I wanted. Either God is or God isn't...what was my choice to be? I chose that God isn't. But guess what, that doesn't stop the program from working. The BB only asks that I seek. I'm good with that. The Spiritual Experience appendix is awesome, IMO, for clarifying that the door is open for ANYONE who has a desire to stop drinking. And isn't that the ONLY requirement for membership?

It was a really good meeting. Many shared that their conceptions of a higher power were agnostic in nature and we marveled at how varied we are were in our beliefs/nonbeliefs. People ran the gamut...from baby Jesus to the militant atheist. All of us sober and full of gratitude. It was cool.

The higher power concept was invented by alcoholics anonymous. You don't need one to stay sober.

All evidence suggests you need a support system and a plan. But certainly not a higher power.

Nothing against AA, it helps a lot of people.

Just an aside...I personally still don't take to the term "Higher Power" which seems wooly. Personal preference is a Power Greater than Myself which helps me stay sober and live a more fulfilled life.

That's all that AA asked me to find and comes straight from the literature.

I have found many interesting folks in and out of AA, religious, spiritual, agnostic and atheistic that talk about a Power Greater than themselves and the effect that power has had on their lives. The commonality between these descriptions fascinates me.

The real beaut is that I don't have to explain or justify that ^^ to anyone...but I can testify it has made an overwhelming difference to my life.

P

Thank you!
 

I'm not sure where you got the idea that that's what I'm doing.


^^ That's it exactly! It fascinates me as well. It shows that there is a common thread that connects all of us and it doesn't have to be called God. I love hearing how finding that power has made a difference for people!

I have no desire to try to change anyone's concept of what a power greater than themselves may be. But I would feel like a hypocrite if I did a reading that was all about God or The Father, etc. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those readings. Just that I choose not to choose them.

Thank you for the links cejay! That's exactly what I needed input on! :D

I have heard this many times but I do think it is dangerous advice. I saw a lot of people destroy themselves by turning their lives over to the "Group Of Drunks."

A higher power is ambiguous enough that one has to consider whatever guidance one thinks one is getting. But the Group of Drunks will tell people to quit jobs and cut off relationships without any ambiguity...and the guidance is not always good.