NotThatGuy

Thanks all for your consideration. This may be a little long in length and will probably not be the first time you've heard about my bitch: but I'm 95% done with my sponsor.

It isn't that he's too hard on me. It isn't that he approaches me as the selfish person that I am. It's that he doesn't call me back. Ever.

I've even asked him to be more communicative. I'm not a needy individual (in general, but I am more so right now just about 90 (June 1st) days in) but I'm facing some life changing **** on a day-to-day basis. I call, text, and email him and get random replies or none at all.

I'm not the best AA. I'm angry, have a lot of **** to work through. Trusting another is a big thing for me, and I've shared things with this guy that I haven't shared with anyone but my wife. I've talked with him about communication, specifically and in general. I don't think that it will change.

Under any other circumstances (i.e. in my previous life) I would just say "FU, you had many opportunities, you suck." I've really addressed my concerns with not being able to reach the guy a number of times, but it just isn't working. It just isn't working.

I'm going to have to find another sponsor. The individual currently sponsoring me was a bad choice. I'd asked him to do so because the dude (still friendly with him) had just said do 90 in 90 and then we'll get started on the steps. I had no idea, at that point, how difficult step 4 is, from a personal perspective, and not wanting to be a dick (though I was) just found a new sponsor. The one I have won't call me back,

The two of them know each other and frequent a couple of meetings I go to. I'm way past 90 in 90, in terms of the number of meetings I've gone to. I really want to be and stay sober. I want, among almost anything, to "intuitively know how to handle situations that used to baffle [me]." I am completely confused how to handle this.

The best that I can think of is to get them both in a conversation and just say "look, sponsor #2, sponsor #1 actually received my calls and called me back, so I think I'm going back to him." I don't know if sponsor #1 is the right choice, but I have a hell of a lot more respect for him than I do for #2 right now.

I've spoken with a fellow AA that just said "look, it might look like you're doctor shopping, i.e. looking for someone who agrees with you." I'm not. Sponsor #2 has said "I've dealt with people with A or B, but not A&B" (for the record, I've myself (before drinking so much) dealt with A&Bs and it's not uncommon, I'm not that special). I don't think he has the mental space (he's in his 70s, I didn't realize that when I asked him) to deal with me.

Please give me a pounding (this smily thing is too cool, just try not to be so seemingly sadistic ) and tell me I'm over-analyzing. I feel I just want a call back.

If you don't think that I'm not getting a call back, I'll call the guy, tomorrow, and say "hey, dude, I just want a call back when I call, within 8 hours." Then, for the sake of the experiment (because I'm sure he won't) I'll do that for a couple of days. **** him if he doesn't, right? No, no, I don't want to embarrass him. I'm telling you, quite simply, that I've waited days for him to call back, and just as often just saw him at a meeting where he had other conversations to attend to.

I did have a good relationship with #1. He was a dick, but a straight-forward one. I could talk to him directly. I asked advice, when he said "do the 90 in 90 and then we'll talk". There is nothing in step 4 that my current sponsor has challenged me about, he's just completely passive (I would even say "aggressively passive") in my recovery. I don't think this thing is going to work out well for me if I continue to deal with this guy.

I've typed all of this and just now realized: **** it, I'm just going to say that I expect to be able to talk to him more than twice a week, and if I call him to get a call back w/in a certain amount of time (I'd expect 8 hours would be cool (I wouldn't expect that if I called him at 8pm, of course, but 10am, yea call back)). If he balks at that (and I think he will, I've said as much before) I'm just going to ask the other guy to help me, and probably #1 who had laid out a very specific communication pattern for us up front.

Asking someone to help me is a big deal, so I appreciate your consideration in reading this, and any suggestions you might have.

I went to #2 because I thought #1 wasn't interested in moving fast enough for me, and I'm not sure that #1 will even consider the option of sponsoring me again. #2 is just not going to be an option much longer without radical changes in my perception of the issue, and I ask you to provide something to consider that I'm not there with.

I'm an egomaniac with an inferiority complex. I know that. I really want to change. I don't know how, and trying to ask and then being ignored is frustrating. Give me options, please.

Bunny211

I don't know but I couldn't be sponsored by someone who didn't return my phone calls. A day is okay...but chronically not returning calls is not ok in my book.

tomsteve

only think ill suggest:
stop the emials and texts with ANY sponsor.keep it to phone calls or face to face.
try emailing me and i wont reply because i rarely check my emial. text me and i wont respond. i didnt do it when i got sober and wouldnt reply to either from a sponsee.
a sponsor not returning phone calls could be a sponsor that is working at having their sponsee learn to be dependent on their HP,not make the sponsor their HP, and open the big book to find solutions. hard sayin.
personally when my sponsor didnt call me back, i either called others in recovery or cracked open my big book.

i think theres something in the 3rd step about us having to stop playing God. something about stopping to try and get people,places, and things to conform to what we beileve they should be.
and i think theres a solution for that- something about turning our will and lives over.

ScottFromWI

I'd try to keep it simple. If your current sponsor is not working out, find a different one. I'd also suggest seeking professional counseling if you feel that you have other mental health issues that are affecting your daily life and interactions with others.

paulokes

Hi! Just to clarify do you want either of these guys to help you move forward with the steps and tackle step 4?

If so ask them. If not this may be why they are holding back...I personally would be responding to your calls but making it clear if we weren't doing stepwork, we weren't doing sponsorship.

P

aasharon90

My sponsor didn't babysit me. What I
saw in her was exactly the person I wanted
to be in recovery and life. It was by her
actions in both that spoke volumes to me.

Once I complete a 28 day rehab via a
family intervention and completed my
6 week outpatient aftercare program,
I had enough information to continue
on my recovery journey listening, learning,
absorbing and applying what was taught
to me to remain focused, determined,
responsible and sober each day.

At 30 yrs old, a wife and mother, I had
responsibilities, priorities and had to find
balance in all I did while learning to live
the steps set down for me to live upon
each day I remained sober.

Everyone I met in AA had their own
agenda including my sponsor. Each
had families, jobs, students, all walks
of life but we all had/have one common
goal. And that is to learn how to remain
sober or clean in order to achieve health,
happiness, honesty and all the gifts of the
promises as written in the Big Book for us
to enjoy and cherish.

My sponsor was there for me if I needed
her. I never disturbed her if she was busy
always asking first if she was busy or not.
That it just being courteous.

She was/is a shining example in her service
work and meeting attendance. If she could
hold down a full time job, make time for
meetings, bake for them and others, listen
to me, encourage me, then that is the person
I wanted to be.

I learned how to work those stops by
attending step meetings, big book studies,
work sheets, tapes and talking to other
members who where just like me, who
were in recovery for addiction just like
me.

With Willingness, Openmindness and
lastly Honesty over the yrs, I am very
grateful for all those who paved the
path of recovery for me to follow, all
those whom I sat by, behind, next to,
all those in rehab, all those in many many
meeting I attended and all those here
in SR who have shared their own ESH
with me, my one and only sponsor, a
shining light who allowed me to call upon
for help when I needed it, I'm grateful.

I never ever have to be alone on this
journey in life and recovery as long
as I don't let go of my recovery life
line I am connected to each day.

Here in SR and Up Above and my
AA support here where I live.

aasharon90

I wanted to add that in those steps are
lessons to be learned and over the yrs.
some of those lessons have been tough
to learn.

When I keep making the same mistakes
looking for different results to only receive
the same result then its time to change
something. Stop making those mistakes.

Ive gotten burned a number of times
for doing that until I got tired of doing
them.

I had to learn about defects of character
such as selfishness, self-centeredness, where
I think I'm the most important person or the
world revolves around me.

MeMeMe

No I'm not the only person and I'm
not queen, well, maybe a princess ...lol
my husband calls me that with loving
intentions.

Moving myself out of the way and
allow a Power greater than I to work
thru me then I can be a kinder, more
caring, compassionate, useful member
of this world and to others.

I am still a work in progress.

Berrybean

I remember the day I realised that I was not able to be straightforward and honest. I'd bought some (really horrible) trainers, got them home and realised my mistake. I still had the receipt and could return them without any excuse or explanation, yet all, the way back to the shop I was going over and over in my head how I could 'present' the truth (mostly involving half truths) in my head, tying myself in knots over what to say so the shop assistant wouldn't think badly of me. I suddenly got a moment of clarity and realised what I was doing. I laughed at myself and went to the shop and told them I'd changed my mind and would like a refund. They gave me a refund. I went home. No problem, and I don't suppose for a minute that shop assistant spared my change of mind any thought at all or even bothered forming an opinion of me at all, good or bad. I'd blown it way out of proportion.

It seems to me that there are two different things screwing with your mind at the moment. One is this whole deal about what to say to who. I'd say, just be honest in a polite and respectful way and don't twist yourself in knots trying to plan a whole conversation in your head. Just resolve to be truthful and courteous. If this person has different priorities to you or different expectations of his role as a sponsor and yours as a sponsee, well maybe the thing to learn from this is simply that these things are worth clarifying before agreeing to a sponsor / sponsee arrangement. There is a really good leaflet about this which I intend to have a really good read through myself after being approached by someone asking me to sponsor her this evening.

It may also be worth actively extending your AA network. There is no need to rely exclusively on your sponsor for support or for day to day chats or dealing with life's challenges. Our sponsors are there for step work, and it's nice when they can also be there for chats as well, but not everyone who 'has what we want' leads the kind of life where they can take calls at work or at the drop of a hat in the evenings.

Whoever you decide to have as your sponsor it's good to get these things clear. Our faulty expectations can easily be like sowing seeds of resentments.

This is the link to get to that sponsorship leaflet. I found it really helpful... Alcoholics Anonymous : Questions and Answers on Sponsorship

Whatever you decide I wish you all the best for your sobriety and recovery. BB

NotThatGuy

Going to try to respond comprehensively and in order of responses. I'd like to respond to all comments (or the parts that I've cherry-picked and have chosen to respond to in my obviously defensive manner in many cases), as I appreciate your advice. I'm not sure I'll be able to, though, and will when I have more time in time. It's late and I'm going to have a couple of smokes before bed.

This is I feel this is important, just generafl availability. I would never agree to help someone and then let them go to voicemail. I don't understand.

I know, and I'm in a state where I think I could be much more needy than I think I am being. FFS, though, just say that's what's going on. Dude #1 set the limit about calls after 10pm, this guy just doesn't bother to call back.

2 parter: it isn't that simple, this guy is a "big wheel" in our local AA, and I'm not even sure it's rational to choose that route.

I do have mental issues and have approached and been approached regarding them. I have to kick this alcoholism (or at least get it under control) before I can really benefit from further services, at least I think. There's a whole lot of **** to scoop out, for sure, and alcohol makes my scoop too tiny to even approach it effectively.

Hey. Yes, I do want to go through step 4. I'm anxious to do so, actually.

I have very little idea on how to do step 4. It might take me awhile to even figure that out. I got some worksheets last night, and although that seems clinical, maybe that's the way I get some momentum.

As for if I want to do it with guy A or B, I'd be happy to do it with either, honestly. I'm not holding anything back, and have told the current guy things I've never told anyone, even my wife, about **** that's just not even useful (I think) to discuss with folks.

I'm going through the motions on this step in some ways, but in other ways I just don't know how to do it.

I'm the one putting the brakes on here, it isn't his fault. I would share if I knew how to, and started to.

That's some powerful **** right there. I've met some amazing folks in the short time I've been "with the program" and when you say "sat by and behind" it actually moves me to just go back again. This is a great group of folks, in my experience. I've had just a great experience overall, it has been a really unexpected thing in my life.

Exactly what I'm trying to check myself on. No idea if I'm being reasonable, or any objective way to measure it. I'm about ME right now, in a way that I haven't been, or haven't knowingly been, for a very long time. I could be wrong, but this feels ******.

I'm just saying: as a new AA member, the onus was placed on me to find a sponsor. No one came up to me and said "hey, do you want me to be your sponsor" and, even if they did, I'd have wondered about their intentions.

I don't know what my expectations of for a sponsor. I've had 2, and I'm only 90 days in. My expectations of the first one were that we'd move forward quicker than I am, my expectations of the second one were that he'd call me back.

I really don't, and no one in my position really would, have any sort of rational expectation. I don't know what it's like to go through the steps. Sponsors are supposed to. I'm asking these questions to figure out if my expectations as an alcoholic are reasonable because I don't know.

I'm a pretty private person, in general, so extending the network to discuss problems in my life with my family, my children, my marriage and my disease is a problem.

As for extending my AA network: I've averaged over a meeting a day, seven days a week, over the course of 90 days. Both of these guys (sponsors A & B) are, kind of, the people that know everyone. I don't want to **** anyone off, I'm not trying to get away with returning a pair of shoes. I'm not lying to anyone. I'd be perfectly willing to work with either if I thought MEMEME would work through what I'm trying to.

It's actually quite disconcerting that you would make that comparison. You wanted to return a pair of shoes and complicated it is roughly comparable to my question how? How am I being dishonest in intent? Hit me over the head if you have to, but jeez don't make it a parable about gym shoes, please.

I was honest and direct with the first guy. And have been honest and direct with the second guy. I'm not sure I'm being honest with myself, and need to be hit over the head with something.

Mountainmanbob

#1 -- A sponsor who (never) returns a call back should be fired.

I have heard of some slow sponsors regarding call backs but (never) a return call -- unacceptable.

Times will come up when I or we really need that sponsor available.

M-Bob

Berrybean

No, I wasn't intending to lie when I returned those shoes either, but what I was twisting myself in knots over was trying to frame the truth in a certain way so that people would think of me what I wanted them to think. I used that particular example because that was the day that I realised that I did that in every situation and created a little of unnecessary stress and anxiety for myself. Perhaps I read your original post wrong, but it sounded to me like that was what you might be doing when thinking about what to say to each sponsor, and if they might think you're sponsor shopping or whatever that person said it might look like.

You seem to be reacting in a fairly hostile way and I'm hoping you didn't think my response was in any way an attack. I didn't think you SHOULD know about sponsor expectations etc when you first arrived in AA. I was lucky and my sponsor laid it all on the line when I asked her. I knew what I was agreeing to. That's why I thought the leaflet would be a helpful read. If we don't know something, as adults with some responsibility for ourselves, it's up to us to learn. Read. Ask. Do what it takes.

If you snap and snarl at your sponsor when they make suggestions as well it might explain their reluctance to call you.

Wishing you all the best for your recovery. BB

RogerD

Recovery is a continuous learning process. Not easy. If you think you need a different sponser then make the respectful change. Down the road you may realize you made a mistake or perhaps the decision was beneficial. I think the important and difficult aspect is that one spends the time really considering the situation and weighing advantage and disadvantages as well as possible motivations. You know, it's not easy. But it's about learning and growing as a person. This is part of the process.

tomsteve

there are no big wheels in AA.
big egos? yes.

Fly N Buy

Be nice to the newcomer - they may be your sponsor one day .......

Easy does it come to mind in reading your thread. If you have outside mental health issues and have 90 days + of sobriety why not seek professional help ??
A sponsor who is a sober accountant may not be enough for some. AA encourages seeking help such as this.

NotThatGuy

Hey folks, spent awhile responding but had a long f-ing day today.

If I come off as hostile or obtuse, I'm sorry. I'm really considering everything that you've all said, and will have some how to respond over the next day or so.

I'm not trying to be dramatic, but today something happened where I didn't know how (or if I could, even) to help another AA and called my now sponsor, who didn't answer. This is 10ish AM. I called the guy that I'd asked before to sponsor me, and he answered and helped out someone else immediately, and just did what I'd do as a human being if I were in his position. I couldn't help the AA member at that particular moment, as she is a woman and was drunk and also a family friend, but wanted to just fix it right then. She had, in fact, been instrumental in getting me in to AA those few short days (it seems like years, but only going to be 90 days) ago.

I really have to have a more specific conversation with sponsor #2. Trust is a big issue for me and I don't trust that he's going to help me in these sorts of situations, or even answer the phone. #1 did today, and I am eternally grateful because it let me do what I could (which, essentially, was nothing, but could help by just doing nothing myself and asking others to help her their way).

I'm so grateful I'm not as sick as she is. We take a moment of silence for the alcoholic that still suffers before some of the meetings I go to, and I will picture what they told me. This is an awful thing, that robs you of all sensibility.

To even be asking about how to ask someone to help me from this is humbling, and it is truly humbling to reflect on how kind you all have been, in those that are trying to help me, those that are trying to help her.

Thanks. More specific comments to follow. I really have to deal with this in a straightforward manner, and events today just make it more clear to me that I have to do so.

Berrybean

Good call on finding someone to help your family member. You did help as you got her some help. I think that sometimes it's harder to help those closest to us as there are too many blurred boundaries. I sponsored a very, very dear and close friend of mine for a little while because she asked me and I wanted so much to help her, but it really didn't work. Now she has a sponsor who is not a close friend outside of that relationship and it's working well for her. I class that friend as one of my best and she's top of my support network list, and me hers, but the sponsorship needed (for us anyway) to be separate from that.

Hope all is well with your friend / relative and she's getting (and accepting) support.

BB

August252015

Agreed - and I got my first sponsor at 97 days, and worked one through three with her. After much consideration and prayer and such, though not a long time with her, between four and five months and for step 4, I found my now-sponsor (I am at 461 days today). My first was critical to teaching me the discipline I have around daily BB reading and study, among other things. She had extremely strict expectations of my "performance" (including things like calling her every morning at 8:15- note, she did not call me first)....my current sponsor is much more a "spirit of the law" person who focuses on how to use the steps to live our best lives. That's my natural inclination, too.

Sponsors should teach, guide, help - not coddle or provide a softness or laxness that really isn't good for us- and every sponsor like every person and alcoholic is different. Finding what honestly- key word- works to keep us moving forward through the steps has been key for me. And I just did all of them, about 14 mo, though I'd been "living in 1, 10 and 12" for some time.

Keep going. I believe a sponsor is really important- but with or without one, the work is fundamentally up to each of us.

schnappi99

I had to get used to how my sponsor communicates, he is a sociable guy in AA and Alanon, in recovery for 20+ years in both rooms, has a number of sponsee's in both programs as well. He tends to forget to call back, doesn't give out his email address and doesn't text. Both his son and daughter have alcohol and drug issues so he's really involved with both families trying to work his program and be a good example, so he has a lot going on. When I want to do some program work with him I schedule an appointment and try to make it worth it.

I see him a once or twice in the weekly meeting rotation, so we do talk in the meeting-after-the-meeting at least briefly. For conversations about program interpretation or discussion of the day-to-day crazy I talk to other program friends first.

tomsteve

good on ya,NYG! reads like some learning there and your HP guiding ya.
the chapter,"working with others" has great advise for helping other. one of the suggestions, which i had to learn the hard way was very wise, was not trying to talk to someone that is currently drinking. wait til they come off the bender or the next morining. i wated a LOT of breath talking to people when they were drinking. then took a look at myself and how responsive i wasnt to anything that was said to me in that state.

something im very glad to read:
"To even be asking about how to ask someone to help me from this is humbling, and it is truly humbling to reflect on how kind you all have been, in those that are trying to help me, those that are trying to help her. "

2 things here that have me smiling:
1- you want to help someone else. THAT is selfless.
2-humbling- humility is teachability. humility leads to learning.
pride and ego say," i know it all and dont need to ask anyone for help."
yeah, that is one of the shortcomings that led me to the doors of AA.
humility says," i dont know but want to know, so ill ask someone."
that has helped a LOt of people learn to live life on lifes terms.

NotThatGuy

Update. I really appreciate all of your (sometimes troubling) comments.

I thought I'd see my sponsor tonight, and just bailed. I don't want to have a conversation with him. I spoke with several AAs today, who gave me heartfelt advice on how to help another AA. I didn't even try to call the dude. I don't know what's going to happen, but I did end up sending him this email:

I know there isn't a lot of detail in this stuff, but for ***** sake it felt good to send. I'm done with this dude if he can't pick up the phone. I've gotten so much from the community, and not just for me but for others through me, that it's incredible.

Everyone should just answer the phone. If you get a call from A or B, or C, and you don't want to answer the phone, you should tell them why if you want to help.