Jules714

I so happen to live in a town that has a lot of recovery going on. Many sober/recovery houses. I'm fortunate enough to have an actual AA Clubhouse approximately 5 minutes away.
A lot of the people in the meetings are actually struggling with drug abuse.
Many of the AAs are highly offended if they reference drugs vs alcohol in the room. It doesn't really bother me. I just went to rehab where there were roughly 90 people, and 95% of the people were drug addicts. In the time I was there we only has 3 AA meetings, the rest being NA meetings. I found it interchangeable.
Alcohol is a drug. Shoot, so is the horrible coffee served. To some food, shopping, work and eating are drugs. We're all there as addicts of some sort.
Why the rivalry? Is that even the right word? It just feels like some shun the drug addicts. I think they really try to substitute the word alcohol for their drug of choice when sharing, but sometimes get caught up in the share and I do not believe they mean disrespect. I just don't really understand if there is a back story I'm missing?

Jules714

I meant food as in overeating and eating as in eating disorders, sorry to appear redundant. And how could I forget sex?!

seahorse661

Hi, this is constant topic at our General Service meetings and people get very emotional about it. There's an AA pamphlet - Problems other than Alcohol which will give you more insight. It's available on the AA World Services website

VigilanceNow

I have found that as well! They say that's for NA, not to be discussed here. It makes it hard for some people who have multiple addictions and they're all connected in some way. A lot of times they'll say "my drug of choice" when referencing whatever else they struggle with.
It's probably to keep it on topic and not allow people to make a meeting into like a personal therapy session, which I've also seen

kevlarsjal

I think in some cases it has to do with other drugs than alcohol being strongly connected with crime in many people's heads. Alcohol is legal, widely advertised and available and also generally accepted in most societies.

Other drugs are not. And they are in most cases illegal. Buying them is illegal, taking them is illegal.

Also alcoholism is treated as an illness and afaik other drug addictions aren't. Then there's the aspect that most people are aware of the adddcitice potential of other drugs but not so much of the one of alcohol. So some people think becoming depended on alcohol is just being unlucky, being ill. But becoming addict to other drugs is people's own fault, based on poor decisions.

And just because we are all addicts doesn't mean that people let automatically go of their stigmas and become less judging.

I guess that's just how humans are, not perfect


I personally don't see much of a difference between alcohol and other addictions where a person becomes physically dependend. I do however see a difference to mental addictions like food, gambling etc. Not saying either is better or worse, just different in some ways.

VigilanceNow

That's interesting that you say that, because I actually find the opposite! I think so many people drink and can drink normally that alcoholism is frowned up as a simple lack of self-control. And as you said, a lot of people don't know that it is actually very physically addictive and the withdrawal is the most dangerous of any drug.

"Hard" drugs, street drugs... People know they are physically addictive and I think feel bad when someone gets sucked in. Thats just my perception having never done drugs, just an ocean's worth of alcohol, haha. Know what I mean?

Jules714

Thanks all. Interesting perspectives.

kevlarsjal

Yes that's true! And I think this is the point of view many non addicts, normal drinkers have. That it's poor self control.

But amongst alcoholics I've heard quite some judging about other drug addicts. Like alcoholics are poor victims (when it comes to their addiction), that they had no idea that this could ever happen to them. But they think people who take other drugs (street drugs) play well knowingly with fire so it's their own fault when they get addicted.

But I have to say it's very few people that I came across that think that way. Most just want to help, no matter what your DOC was.

I personally know that I drank alcohol cause it was most convenient, it's widely available, extremely cheap where I live. I did like opiates just as much and also liked smoking pot but I stuck to alcohol because it had already become "my" thing.

But I know I'm just as much at risk to become addicted to any of the drugs I listed above. So best to stay away from all that stuff.

VigilanceNow

That is true as well -- I remember at a mixed meeting once, someone accused me of thinking I was better than them because I'd never stuck a needle in my arm. Yikes. But I realized that the point ive gotten myself to with alcohol... There is nothing I can say with absolute certainty I'd *never* do. Scary prospect!

fini

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/6453571-post1.html

Jules, you might find this thread interesting.

kevlarsjal

Even as just an alcoholic I once stuck a needle in my arm. That was in a really bad phase and my body screamed for more drink but my stomach couldn't keep it in. So I tried to inject vodka into my arm. It didn't work, I was too drunk / not skilled enough and it resulted in a massive bruise that I had to explain to my friends at university somehow.

I hate to remember that, what an idiot I was.

I wish I could've just blacked out and forgotten that night but no. Maybe it's good to remember that whenever I think I don't have a problem.

So yes I guess addict is addict, doesn't matter which drug. At least not for me.

Jules714

Very interesting, enlightening, well conceived perspectives.
Thank you all.
Whether a Coke head, Dope fiend, Donut chaser, Credit Card Junkie or a Drunk...I think it's the diseased, addicted thinking mixed with avoidance of some pain/trauma by distraction or dulling the senses/altering the mind.
I'm also beginning to learn; "you don't have to live like that anymore!" I think *THAT applies to all of those drugs of choice.
Thank you all, be well!
J

PhoenixJ

The recovery progam I am in is mostly drug affected people (''druggies''). I find there seems to be a hierarchy that helps people define themselves. Some just ardently say AA is for alcohol. BUT there are a lot of people with a dual diagnosis. Alcohol and gambling is HUGE. Druggs scare people- it scares the crap otta me. The crime, damage- both physical and social.... Alcohol generally is not responsible for people committing bad crimes to GET it for example. Anything different sces people. Having said that- I see alcies send drunk people away from meetings- because they are effected by alcohol. I have heard about meth users waiting in line at the chemists for their suboxone (?) competing over who has had the worst experiences and whose dental problems are the worst (one guy was proud to have 1 tooth). It is a matter of consensus for some. For me? I go to support, share and listen. So long as the person sticks to the ethos of wanting to get better, heal and stop drinking- they are welcome as far as I am concerned.

Gottalife

Yup there is a huge back story going right back to the start of AA. This falls into the category of nothing new under the sun. Pretty much everyone agrees that world peace would be a good idea, but it never happens.

Likewise, thousands of AA groups have tried to deviate from their primary prupose, and they have always failed. And if they fail, they can't help anyone.

You site part of the reason in your post, the conflict between members of diffferent persuasions. Conflict is not unity, and unity is needed to be effective at helping others.

Why the conflict? Could it be just that they don't understand each other? I know for certain I have no understanding of what it is like to be an addict.

You use the example of two fellowships. NA considers alcohol a drug, therefore has pretty strong views about giving up heroin (say) and taking up drinking. I can see why they might feel that way. Perhaps the way a drug is used has some relavence in that.

AA on the other hand, claims only to have a solution that worked for us in respect of alcoholism. The only official view on other addictions is that they don't matter as long as the person is an alcoholic.

On that point about how a substance is used, another fellowship, Cocaine Anonymous seems to have a lot more common ground with AA members, perhaps based in the way that drug is used.

I believe there are something like 200 other fellowships who utilize their version of the AA program. AA is just one of those, and it happens to specialize in alcoholism.

jv369

i am an alcoholic, though i have tried and been hooked on other drugs as well. booze has always been my downfall through the years though.

that said, i go to NA exclusively. i had several years clean a while back and i would go to both NA and AA, but since coming back 3+ months ago i havent attended any AA meetings. it wasnt really intentional at first, but eventually i didnt see the need.

it may be a regional thing but i found a much more welcoming and open atmosphere within NA. NA focuses on addiction, not what drug a person is addicted to. it is the behaviors, not the substance. regardless of legal standing, alcohol is a drug just like coke, crack, heroine, meth, etc, etc. are as well. a person can become addicted to any of them. alcoholism is no different than any other addiction IMO. i found that the AA meetings felt closed and restricted, enough so that someone with an addiction to any other drug besides alcohol would feel like an outsider. to me that just isn't right and is not what the 12 steps are about. i have never felt more at home in recovery than i have in the last 3 months.

this is just my experience and opinion btw, one should always do what works best for themselves.

a quick note on CA though, i find their fellowship to be more in keeping with NA's philosophy. they started out focused on cocaine during the early 80s in LA when everyone in hollywood was hooked on it, but today they too regard all drugs as equal and anyone with any kind of substance addiction(including alcohol) is welcome.

gottalife, i think you know a lot more about what it is like to be an addict than you realize. having been an alcoholic for many years and also experiencing addiction to other "hardcore" drugs i can say that in my experience the 2 "conditions" are very similar. the physical effects of the drug and withdrawal may vary, but the behaviors and psychological fixations are the same IMO.

Gottalife

I understand where you are coming from, jv369. Your views are common to a lot of folk with multiple addiction problems.

But as far as me understanding addiction, I don't even speak the language. I don't understand the motivations or objectives of using those substances, except perhaps one, where an alcoholic coke addict told me coke enabled him to drink more. I would have been quite interested in that.

As far as recovery goes, I am happy to work with addicts who want some help with the steps. I even looked at starting a local All Addictions Anonymous, so I could contribute something without damaging AA. AA tradition is founded in long experience, it saved my life.

I am very glad about your success in NA. From what other NAs have told me, that could be the place where you can do the most good.

Jules714

I think CA uses the Big Book. Not sure tho.

Marcus

When I first started going to AA meetings about 10 years ago I used to introduce myself as an Alcoholic and an Addict. I didn't know any better and saw many others doing it. After being around for a while and learning more about AA history, traditions, and primary purpose / singleness of purpose I dropped the Addict and just introduce myself as an Alcoholic.

I think I had several motivations for doing this first being out of respect for the program and all of those that came before me and come in after me. That doesn't mean I take offense to people saying Alcoholic AND A, but for me it felt like I was trying to differentiate myself. Kind of like well your just an alcoholic and I am an alcoholic AND A. Based on the primary purpose and singleness of purpose the AND A doesn't mean anything anyway. I was absolutely an Alcoholic and had a desire to stop drinking (among many other things). The AND A just felt like my way of pointing out I am different. It had nothing to do with me being true to myself having to say that I was an addict too.

When I used to go to NA meetings I introduced myself as an Addict because that is how they do it over there. Saying Addict and an Alcoholic there felt repetitive (since they view alcohol as a drug after all).

I also used to think I needed to find a Sponsor who did drugs. Thought I needed a sponsor who had kids too so he could understand that. I have since come to realize I just need a sponsor who has worked the steps and can guide me through the steps as they are laid out in the book. Who practices the principals in all his affairs.

I rarely talk about drugs in meetings. Actually don't talk about alcohol all that much either unless it is a first step meeting. Even at first step meetings I try to stick to the solution but of course share a little of what it was like. If I am speaking at a meeting (giving my story) I may discuss drugs a little, but it is not necessary. I think if you were to ask 100 of the young people coming into AA (under 25) the majority probably did more than just drink. As long as they have a desire to stop drinking come on in as far as I am concerned. I am not looking to turn people away.

I rarely go to NA meetings anymore. AA just works for me. I found more people with quality long term sobriety. More people who have had a spiritual awakening as a result of the steps. Lots more meetings too. It has probably saved my life, but more importantly it has given me a life that I did not even know was possible.

Jules714

If it's a speaker meeting, they are forbidden to mention any drugs. There is one guy, who is a tad off, who screams when he gets to share about keeping it on alcohol only. I find him to be very triggering. I don't like the yelling. But there's always going to be some one like that, I guess.
He went off this AM and some guy, whose first meeting it was, was completely scared off and I doubt he'll be back. I tried to catch him after the meeting and say it's not always like that in there, but he looked like a deer in headlights. I felt bad for him.
It shouldn't be that way. We're supposed to help each other, not run fresh outta detox people out the door. Seeing as this new guy only completed detox and balked at the idea of rehab says he's already working on a relapse. Today did nothing positive for his first meeting experience.
It's a utter shame.
If any of you pray, please lift "John" up...I hope he comes back.
Thanks again Alllll...you're so great. So happy to have found you all
J

tomsteve

"If it's a speaker meeting, they are forbidden to mention any drugs."
imo, that is a group whose GC isnt letting a loving God express itself in its GC. they are no longer be trusted servants and are governing.
which bring up quite a bit.
i was an AA hardliner at one time. the mention of drugs didnt bother me. it was the drugalogues and i spoke out about it.
then i did an inventory- why does it bother me?
i found a few things, one being fear. AA saved my life. thats a lie- i didnt have a life. i was just existing. AA gave me life and i was afraid of my HG collapsing as so many meeting before had- meetings that strayed from the traditions, became very disfunctions, and eventually folded.
then there was pride and ego getting in the way. I knew how meeting should be conducted to make them great! I knew what made a great AA meeting with lots of years of recovery.I wanted my HG to have members with lots of years of recovery to say,"look at us! look how awesome we are and I helped it be that way!!"
i wasnt really practicing the spiritual principles- the main being love and tolerance.
then i realized something; those that go on drugalogues were usually very new to recovery and meetings. they didnt have an understanding of the principles or of what goes on at meetings. quite a few thought it was just a place to go "vent". they didnt understand (yet) that drugs AND alcohol were only symptoms of much deeper problems.
so my solution was to listen. if the person goin on a drugalogue was new, id talk to them AFTER the meeting. find out about them, tell a little about me, and explain a little about the principles.
the majority of responses were very understanding.
the bad thing was that where i got sober there were 5 NA meetings a week in a 50 mile radius with one in town and about 20 AA meetings a week in that same radius with about 14 meetings in the same town. what were they to do?
i saw quite a few of them keep comin back. watched them listening, sharing, start working the steps, and sometimes even eventually heard," ya know, i came in here because i was addicted to____________ but through the steps i realized i had traded addictions. i used to drink a lot, but found____________ and the drinking stopped. i think that why i relate to what ya'll and the BB say. dam!! im an alcoholic and greatful to have learned that!"

spiritual principles are awesome. i love the responsibility decleration:
I am Responsible.
When Anyone, Anywhere
Reaches Out For Help,
I Want The Hand Of A.A.
Always To Be There.

And For That,
I Am Responsible !

thats not,"hey, are you an alcoholic? oh, an addict? sorry, cant help ya!"

something i noticed after learning about me:
seems quite often the hardline AAers that get in a tizzy when drugs are mentioned are also the ones that have DRUNKalogues to share.

something else about the harliners that dont like the mention of drugs at meetings:
if they have a problem with that, then theres a couple of stories in their BB they should tear out- mainly bill and bobs.

yes, we have to stick to our primary purpose and when discussing our problems, confine ourselves to those problems as they relate to alcoholism.
for many, including myself, drug use is a problem related to alcoholism. when i smoked crack, i was drinking. when i snorted coke i was drinking. when i took lsd,acid, or shrooms, i was drinking.