courage2

This is all true, but can lead a person in distress in opposite directions. The first paragraph says, seek outside help. The second says, be patient and accept discomfort. Which way which way?

For some alcoholics in the first year or so of sobriety, personal decision-making is a struggle, especially stressful decisions. We're not used to them. Also there's the fear component -- this whole straight universe is a scary new thing to navigate. Asking for help? The scariest!

I don't remember my first year around very well. But I remember that after doing what I thought were all the "right" things, I was still miserable. By 9 months, I was just slightly tuning out of recovery. Still committed, apparently, but inwardly off track and fantasizing about using.

In retrospect, I should have seen a counselor who was familiar with addiction when I was getting bogged down in what people told me was either "just PAWS" or "just life." And if that counselor were any good, they would have referred me to a psychiatrist. (Which is what happened anyway, but not until after a lot of unnecessary misery and a relapse.) Not that everyone would get such a referral. But there's a reason they're called expert opinions.

((Doug))

Doug39

This is true.

I had my mental breakdown in October 2016, my last drink was Oct. 24, 2016 and on Oct. 27, 2016 I took a leave of absence from work and collected disability to get through recovery.

I stretched the disability as long as I could and went back to work Feb. 6, 2017 - I only last 5 hours. I didn't go back to work after that and a week later I quit my job.

Now, three months after quitting I regret it - I just wasn't stable enough to work back then - now I feel I could handle it.

I have tried to reach out to my former employer but I burned that bridge.

ScottFromWI

Both actually...that's why I suggested both ways. As a personal example, I fought against anxiety for a good part of 2 years after getting sober. It came in waves and happened a lot of time at the typical "PAWS" intervals. I googled and searched high and low for some magic bullet reason as to why I had this affliction of panic/anxiety/health worries. Turns out it was because I have anxiety ( DOH ! ). A large part of my healing from anxiety came from outside help....counseling, meditation techniques, exercise, etc. But another big part came from acceptance of the fact that I am a person with anxiety...and I always will be. Doesn't mean I cannot make improvement in my life to reduce the suffering, I have made a LOT of progress in that vein.

But when it come to "PAWS" I thing it gets used a lot of times as a scapegoat to not address the real issues...both through acceptance and action.

courage2

Doug, I think I understand. When I first went to a psychologist after my brief but scary relapse, my immediate problem was that I couldn't function at work, and a sudden leave would have trashed my reputation at work forever. I don't know if you're getting any outside support now, but I do recommend you consult a trusted outsider . Also SR is a good source of opinion! I used to crowd-source almost every one of my decisions with SR, my sponsor, one trusted colleague, and often my home AA group.

Scott, you're right of course. I struggled with both too -- first to accept that I needed outside help, and later to accept that even with help, I'm kind of a strange person. I wanted a cure. Instead I got better relationships, better mental acuity, more day-to-day consistency in my moods and behavior, and what's most important, 3 years of continuous sobriety.

Sometimes when I hear people say, "just accept that's life" I just worry that people will take it wrong. I know from experience that accepting a life you don't want to live with, especially in early recovery, can lead back to drinking.

Steely

That's very similar to me too Doug. Anxiety and depression, the depersonalisation, derealisation wax and wane for me. Very taxing, very tiring.

Your post was very informative Scott. Thanks.

It does seem that some of us do undergo symptoms following the acute stage and I am pressing forward until they abate, and I believe they will.

Complete abstinence and time seem to be key. The thought of a drink makes me want to puke.

puddlejumper70

There is a simple method called "tapping therapy" that you can use to deal with escalating anxiety that really works. It looks odd at first, but it is very effective. I used it after withdrawing in conjunction with deep belly breathing, exercise, and long soaks.

Look it up on youTube, there are a bunch of short videos showing how to do it.

Canadian Koala

I've stopped cigarette and alcohol only 163 days ago.
PAWS? What PAWS?

I personaly think Scott says what I feel about it :
"Many of the commonly described PAWS symptoms are just regular parts of life itself." [...] "we aren't always going to feel "great" all the time".

I have some serious mood swing sometimes here and there but in general, I'm feeling a lot better than when I was drinking 20 oz of Vodka a day and was coughing to death on every cigarette.

It was very interesting to read all your comments.
Thanks.

Doug39

Who knows - I may not be experiencing "PAWS" or do I know if PAWS is a real thing.

After spending over 27 years of my life either hungover or drunk every single day I can't really remember what sober life felt like all those years ago.

I know alcohol abuse had to have changed my brain chemistry and it now needs time to change back or into something new and whatever that change is, is what I am experiencing.

ScottFromWI

I agree with this absolutely. I basically chemically sedated my mind for the better part of 2 and a half decades. And for a lot of them it was 365 days a year. There's no question to me that I altered my brain in significant ways - and that it is going to take a lot of time to change it back for the better.

kevlarsjal

I hit the 200 days mark just a week ago and feel very similar. I don't know for sure it it's PAWS or tackling trauma stuff in therapy but I feel very depressed, anxious, suicidal and hopeless again. Also my concentration and short term memory are both extremely weak at the moment. It's much like in the first 2 weeks of sobriety again.

Doug39

Sorry to hear that.

I am no where near where I was in early recovery but I do get bad moments here and there where I feel like I did in early recovery but I can usually snap out of it quickly and easily.

MrMcTell

This is an interesting thread. Congrats on your sober time.

I keep going back and forth in my mind day to day and week to week as to whether PAWS is "thing." Seems to me that all the things listed under the banner of PAWS can also be explained by underlying conditions such as depression and anxiety. Cause and effect is extremely difficult to determine in this case.

I did read in The Addicted Brain by Micheal Kuhler that monkeys with long term exposure to cocaine took a year+ to normalize in terms of neuro-transmission. So the idea that there are long term effects of alcohol addiction that stretch long into recover doesn't seem far-fetched to me at all.

I actually spoke to my doctor about some of the symptoms I still have yesterday. (I'm at 114 days.) He was interested in talking about the possibility of PAWS but ultimately suggested that a proactive approach to treating the depression was a better strategy.

One thing we can all agree on: drinking ain't the solution to any of these problems and the only way to isolate these problems and treat them properly is to keep sober.

MrMcTell

I'm sorry to hear that too, Kev.

It's odd that I feel so much better than when I as drinking but I keep getting these bouts of depression and hopelessness too. I'm also not focused on anything at all really at the moment, which is frustrating.

Don't know if I congratulated you on your milestone but congratulations anyway. You are doing great.

Jack465

Agreed. Well said. This is what people are talking about when they refer to "PAWS".

I had some very specific withdrawal-type symptoms which lasted about 6 months after stopping. It felt like an extension of the acute withdrawal period. So to me it seems obvious that this was my body readjusting after years of abuse.

Berrybean

I found this article on PAWs really helpful. It explains what it is and why it happens but most importantly, it offers suggestions on what we can do to alleviate it.

There is lots of action we can take to alleviate the symptoms of PAWs if we decide we want to have some relief. They may not all be suggestions we like. I found my own recovery started realky kicking off when I found the willingness to try those things that I did not want to do. Turns out they were the things that I most needed to do. Who'd have thunk it? ! (My AV probably for starters!)

https://digital-dharma.net/post-acut...r-immediately/

Wishing all of you PAWs sufferers all the best for your recovery. BB

Talkinandwalkin

I really feel for you. I am 2 years in and still have some panic and anxiety issues. The reality is normal does not exist. Some of it may be lingering damage from drinking or what is left when you finally have to deal with your real emotions. Once my anxiety starts it is like a runaway train that goes nowhere good. I will even go as far as getting up in the middle of a stressful situation and going for a walk. At the end of the day I will take the anxiety over the bottle any day. Good luck and God bless!

Jack465

I'd also add that I relapsed a few times when I had PAWS, and the symptoms got progressively worse each time I drank and withdrew again - so therefore I know these symptoms were a direct consequence of drinking and not due to some other factor.

Doug39

Yes I would say this is true.

I started getting drunk everyday in 1989 and in 2013 I managed to quit for 4 months. Once I started up again, those 3 years of drinking up until I quit on 10/24/2016 really did a number on my mind, body and soul.

Like many people at AA say "I don't think I have another drunk in me, the next one might kill me".